Argh, I tried replying only to receive the "You can't reply in the GM Announcement Folder!" message. Sadly I closed the window with my super long post before it even registered to me. So, I'm retyping with a smaller summary.
Thank you for this Raesh!
One problem I do forsee is that right now Bards don't typically use any of those abilities(save for the PRACTICE abilities) in regular play other than as red buttons in PvP. This is because it's excruciatingly hard/annoying to raise mojo, and presently in DR 2.0 Bards suffer greatly for not having maximum mojo in the form of penalties to PLAY, weakened enchantes, not being able to RECALL, etc.
I actually had hoped the band-aide of Bardic Lore exp being in the PLAY verb would stay until you had time to go in and rewrite the mojo system and our Bardic abilities; however, I can attempt to use some of the other abilities in regular combat to see how they work. I do have a few questions:
1) have these abilities been rewritten yet to take advantage of the new combat/damage system?
2) do the screams now use the respective Targeted Magic/Debilitation/Bardic Lore skill checks wherever applicable?
3) have the mojo costs for these abilities been adjusted to accommodate for the fact they are no longer one-shot red-button abilities and are instead regular training tools to train the Bardic Lore skill?
4) has mojo been rewritten to allow restoration in combat and to make using these abilities more feasible in regular play?
__
You hear the voice of Jaedren exclaim, "Look! I'm Leilond!"
You notice Jaedren come out of hiding.
Jaedren shimmers out of sight.
BEVERAGEK
DR-RAESH
Re: Bardic Lore Exp
10/10/2012 08:30 AM CDT
>>I actually had hoped the band-aide of Bardic Lore exp being in the PLAY verb would stay until you had time to go in and rewrite the mojo system and our Bardic abilities; however, I can attempt to use some of the other abilities in regular combat to see how they work.
It wasn't intended and I'd prefer to not go that route, but if that ends up being what we need to do as a short term fix, I'm open to having that discussion.
>>1) have these abilities been rewritten yet to take advantage of the new combat/damage system?
They haven't been updated to any notable degree, however the combat 3.0 changes may be impacting them for good or for ill. It depends on the specific ability you're talking about and how exactly it's set up.
>>2) do the screams now use the respective Targeted Magic/Debilitation/Bardic Lore skill checks wherever applicable?
No. They're still the old screams and haven't been redone yet, so I believe they'll be checking Performance at the moment.
>>3) have the mojo costs for these abilities been adjusted to accommodate for the fact they are no longer one-shot red-button abilities and are instead regular training tools to train the Bardic Lore skill?
No. Literally all I did was strap some exp on to the use of these abilities. It's not meant as a long term fix. I realize they aren't something you can use super often right now -- So I'm open to shifting around how much exp they award. I believe I was generally on the conservative side to start.
>>4) has mojo been rewritten to allow restoration in combat and to make using these abilities more feasible in regular play?
Again, no. This isn't the new system. This is the old system with a bandage on it.
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
It wasn't intended and I'd prefer to not go that route, but if that ends up being what we need to do as a short term fix, I'm open to having that discussion.
>>1) have these abilities been rewritten yet to take advantage of the new combat/damage system?
They haven't been updated to any notable degree, however the combat 3.0 changes may be impacting them for good or for ill. It depends on the specific ability you're talking about and how exactly it's set up.
>>2) do the screams now use the respective Targeted Magic/Debilitation/Bardic Lore skill checks wherever applicable?
No. They're still the old screams and haven't been redone yet, so I believe they'll be checking Performance at the moment.
>>3) have the mojo costs for these abilities been adjusted to accommodate for the fact they are no longer one-shot red-button abilities and are instead regular training tools to train the Bardic Lore skill?
No. Literally all I did was strap some exp on to the use of these abilities. It's not meant as a long term fix. I realize they aren't something you can use super often right now -- So I'm open to shifting around how much exp they award. I believe I was generally on the conservative side to start.
>>4) has mojo been rewritten to allow restoration in combat and to make using these abilities more feasible in regular play?
Again, no. This isn't the new system. This is the old system with a bandage on it.
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
BEVERAGEK
Re: Bardic Lore Exp
10/10/2012 08:49 AM CDT
Haha ok sorry for all the questions! Let me do some testing this evening and get back with you with my findings :P
Thanks again Raesh!
__
You hear the voice of Jaedren exclaim, "Look! I'm Leilond!"
You notice Jaedren come out of hiding.
Jaedren shimmers out of sight.
Thanks again Raesh!
__
You hear the voice of Jaedren exclaim, "Look! I'm Leilond!"
You notice Jaedren come out of hiding.
Jaedren shimmers out of sight.
BEVERAGEK
Re: Bardic Lore Exp
10/10/2012 11:15 AM CDT
Ok I was able to sneak in some testing.
After a full round of combat and draining my mojo to 0(ouch), I was at around 12/34 in Bardic Lore. I went off to a resting spot and started PRACTICE BREATHING which definitely helped get me up in learning state.
Gonna play instruments a bit to get my mojo back up now.
Overall I'd say this IS playable, albiet Bards are going to have to do a LOT of back and forth between combat and instrument playing... like switching back and forth once every hour or so I'd say at least until you get around to rewriting the system as a whole.
One thing though, BLUFF DODGE doesn't work because...
> bluff dodge
But you are already dodging!
Since dodge stance never clears now it's impossible to activate this ability :P
__
You hear the voice of Jaedren exclaim, "Look! I'm Leilond!"
You notice Jaedren come out of hiding.
Jaedren shimmers out of sight.
After a full round of combat and draining my mojo to 0(ouch), I was at around 12/34 in Bardic Lore. I went off to a resting spot and started PRACTICE BREATHING which definitely helped get me up in learning state.
Gonna play instruments a bit to get my mojo back up now.
Overall I'd say this IS playable, albiet Bards are going to have to do a LOT of back and forth between combat and instrument playing... like switching back and forth once every hour or so I'd say at least until you get around to rewriting the system as a whole.
One thing though, BLUFF DODGE doesn't work because...
> bluff dodge
But you are already dodging!
Since dodge stance never clears now it's impossible to activate this ability :P
__
You hear the voice of Jaedren exclaim, "Look! I'm Leilond!"
You notice Jaedren come out of hiding.
Jaedren shimmers out of sight.
DR-RAESH
Re: Bardic Lore Exp
10/10/2012 07:50 PM CDT
Yeah, I had a feeling bluff dodge was broken when I looked at it. I'll try and get the combat guys to take a look at it -- I wouldn't even know where to start to fix it without some serious investigation. That's why I didn't stick exp on that one.
Have you tried supplementing your training with evokes at all? How about practice assesses?
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
Have you tried supplementing your training with evokes at all? How about practice assesses?
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
BEVERAGEK
Re: Bardic Lore Exp
10/10/2012 10:29 PM CDT
Sorry didn't get a chance to test those earlier but I just tested now.
The Practice Assessments and Evoke seem fair in terms of exp. Evoke exp could possibly use a bit of a boost since the Evokes are few and far in between, and are typically way out of the way. (for me at least. I had to consult the epedia just to find out where one is)
If anything Practice Breathing/Stretching may be a bit too generous in terms of exp, but it also may be fine considering the long timer on that ability and also the fact that our ability to train the Bardic Lore skill in combat is quite limited presently.
Anyway, there's definitely a good variety of options to train the skill and it all feels good to me :)
__
You hear the voice of Jaedren exclaim, "Look! I'm Leilond!"
You notice Jaedren come out of hiding.
Jaedren shimmers out of sight.
The Practice Assessments and Evoke seem fair in terms of exp. Evoke exp could possibly use a bit of a boost since the Evokes are few and far in between, and are typically way out of the way. (for me at least. I had to consult the epedia just to find out where one is)
If anything Practice Breathing/Stretching may be a bit too generous in terms of exp, but it also may be fine considering the long timer on that ability and also the fact that our ability to train the Bardic Lore skill in combat is quite limited presently.
Anyway, there's definitely a good variety of options to train the skill and it all feels good to me :)
__
You hear the voice of Jaedren exclaim, "Look! I'm Leilond!"
You notice Jaedren come out of hiding.
Jaedren shimmers out of sight.
DR-RAESH
Re: Bardic Lore Exp
10/10/2012 11:41 PM CDT
>>If anything Practice Breathing/Stretching may be a bit too generous in terms of exp, but it also may be fine considering the long timer on that ability and also the fact that our ability to train the Bardic Lore skill in combat is quite limited presently.
Essentially.
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
Essentially.
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
