Okay, my question generally revolves around learning hiding, but a little bit of background first...
My primary character is a survival prime whose stealths have outranked his combats by 100-150 since I can remember... Also wears mostly leather...
I recently rolled up a Cleric for a change of pace, who I put Heavy Chain on. So I went from having almost ideal stealth to almost none... I've reached a point (still very low) where I can't hide at all against the things I'm hunting (even from ranged), and was wondering if this is what I should just expect considering my Tertiary/Armor combo, or are there clerics who are wearing HC and above who can train hiding effectively?
I mostly ask because I really have no idea since all my other experience comes from a character that has found hiding to never be a challenge to train or use against anything I've fought.
It may be possible that I am simply at very low ranks and thus I have to get over the "lowbie hump" for hiding before it moves, but as I've been looking around at different hunting spots (to almost no success), and can't seem to hide on anything, I want to know if I'm wasting my time.
May also be worthwhile to point out that I'm a Gnome and the first thing I did was train Str/Stam to 20 because its practically mandatory (IMO) in order to reasonably hunt without burden, so I haven't put any points into Agility, and was wondering if that would make a marked difference in my ability to hide - in the long term I plan to have Agility way outpace my strength/stam, its just at low circle I don't have the TDPs yet.
Thanks in advance...
PHIL-SMITH
DARPISECK
Re: New to Survival Tert
10/12/2010 11:05 AM CDT
Well, I can sorta answer you, though not on the HC end of things.
Hiding is viable as a survival tert, but you kind of have to commit to it entirely. Seg's ~110th and still has hiding within 50 ranks of primary weapon -- he wears leather body armor with LP accessories and can hide at melee just below level or at level with Shadows.
I actually added the plate accessories kind of late too, but I can tell you when they hit about ~200 they became viable for hiding as well. I did spend a lot of time swapping accessories in and out to work hiding effectively.
Segmere
Shadow Priest, Baron's Own Militia
"The best cure for insomnia is to get a lot of sleep." ~WC Fields
Hiding is viable as a survival tert, but you kind of have to commit to it entirely. Seg's ~110th and still has hiding within 50 ranks of primary weapon -- he wears leather body armor with LP accessories and can hide at melee just below level or at level with Shadows.
I actually added the plate accessories kind of late too, but I can tell you when they hit about ~200 they became viable for hiding as well. I did spend a lot of time swapping accessories in and out to work hiding effectively.
Segmere
Shadow Priest, Baron's Own Militia
"The best cure for insomnia is to get a lot of sleep." ~WC Fields
PENDUS
Re: New to Survival Tert
10/12/2010 11:07 AM CDT
Early on, it might be easier to use leather/LC to hide in and wear a set of HC gloves to keep HC moving. It also depends on what the hindrance of your armor is. HC would be very hard to hide in early on.
BEVERAGEK
Re: New to Survival Tert
10/12/2010 11:10 AM CDT
I'm not sure how well you can train stealth with heavy chain on your body; however, I'm also survival tertiary and I wear light chain body with leather accessories and I can train stealth fairly well. You'll need to underhunt a bit in order to pull it off but it is doable. Also raising your Discipline will help your stealthy activities.
P.S. Hindering your opponent in some way will also help your ability to HIDE on them.
__
~Leilond
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Leilond
http://soundsoftime.bravehost.com
P.S. Hindering your opponent in some way will also help your ability to HIDE on them.
__
~Leilond
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Leilond
http://soundsoftime.bravehost.com
KOUGEN
Re: New to Survival Tert
10/12/2010 01:27 PM CDT
>and was wondering if this is what I should just expect considering my Tertiary/Armor combo, or are there clerics who are wearing HC and above who can train hiding effectively?
The GM's are doing everything in their power to make what you're trying to do a waste of time. What currently works for my Elf Moon Mage is carrying two sets of armor, one chain and one leather.
~ Kougen
The shadowling exclaims, "Boo ya!"
The GM's are doing everything in their power to make what you're trying to do a waste of time. What currently works for my Elf Moon Mage is carrying two sets of armor, one chain and one leather.
~ Kougen
The shadowling exclaims, "Boo ya!"
PHIL-SMITH
Re: New to Survival Tert
10/12/2010 02:56 PM CDT
Gah, I was hoping if I pumped enough into Agility and Disc I would be able to overcome enough of the hinderance to at least TRAIN the skill. If carrying around a couple sets of armor is what the solution is, then so be it - lots of trips to my vault appear to be what the solution will have to be.
Thanks everyone.
Thanks everyone.
SUGARSNOUT
Re: New to Survival Tert
10/13/2010 12:30 PM CDT
Remove your armor and you'll be okay.
If you don't have some type of a viable stealth booster, you pretty much have to jump through all manner of hoops in order to train stealths.
If you don't have some type of a viable stealth booster, you pretty much have to jump through all manner of hoops in order to train stealths.
JMF90
Re: New to Survival Tert
10/13/2010 07:42 PM CDT
>May also be worthwhile to point out that I'm a Gnome and the first thing I did was train Str/Stam to 20 because its practically mandatory (IMO) in order to reasonably hunt without burden, so I haven't put any points into Agility, and was wondering if that would make a marked difference in my ability to hide - in the long term I plan to have Agility way outpace my strength/stam, its just at low circle I don't have the TDPs yet.
Discipline is the stat that helps hiding, not agility.
>describe boar
It's a boar. It doesn't like you.
Discipline is the stat that helps hiding, not agility.
>describe boar
It's a boar. It doesn't like you.
NJP
Re: New to Survival Tert
10/13/2010 09:25 PM CDT
>>Discipline is the stat that helps hiding, not agility.
My halfling thief was 40th circle before someone corrected me on the disc vs. agi/ref re: stealth thing.
I swore. A lot.
Ogdaro
"Take chances and see what you can get away with, it only costs you a favor or two if you mess up." -Issus
My halfling thief was 40th circle before someone corrected me on the disc vs. agi/ref re: stealth thing.
I swore. A lot.
Ogdaro
"Take chances and see what you can get away with, it only costs you a favor or two if you mess up." -Issus
PHIL-SMITH
Re: New to Survival Tert
10/14/2010 07:56 AM CDT
>Discipline is the stat that helps hiding, not agility.
>My halfling thief was 40th circle before someone corrected me on the disc vs. agi/ref re: stealth thing.
Thanks JMF, and yah, I'm glad I got that tidbit of information early on.
either way with the racial bonus it still makes sense for me to pump agility for accuracy/damage as I'm trying to use more balanced weapons anyways. Since I made the post I've pumped a bunch of stats into Disc and still have trouble hiding - looks like my only way around it is to get 2 sets of armor as suggested, so that's what I'm gonna end up doing.
Good thing platinum is so trivial at higher levels that having several sets of crafted armor is nothing!
>My halfling thief was 40th circle before someone corrected me on the disc vs. agi/ref re: stealth thing.
Thanks JMF, and yah, I'm glad I got that tidbit of information early on.
either way with the racial bonus it still makes sense for me to pump agility for accuracy/damage as I'm trying to use more balanced weapons anyways. Since I made the post I've pumped a bunch of stats into Disc and still have trouble hiding - looks like my only way around it is to get 2 sets of armor as suggested, so that's what I'm gonna end up doing.
Good thing platinum is so trivial at higher levels that having several sets of crafted armor is nothing!
STILVA
Re: New to Survival Tert
10/22/2010 09:13 PM CDT
Heavy Chain is pretty hard on stealth, but from what I've seen it's wearing a shield that tends to be the final push that turns heavy-armor hiding into a high-failure endeavor.
If you can, I'd try to see if you can practice hiding while in parry mode without a shield. If that doesn't work then I'd agree with carrying a set of leathers with you.
As another alternative, since leathers are terribly heavy and you'll have a burden problem for some time yet, you could try removing the HC and hide/advance from pole range to train both stealths while preventing them from possibly wandering to a different room (Though of course you'd only want to do this vs stuff you know won't land hits on you easily).
If you can, I'd try to see if you can practice hiding while in parry mode without a shield. If that doesn't work then I'd agree with carrying a set of leathers with you.
As another alternative, since leathers are terribly heavy and you'll have a burden problem for some time yet, you could try removing the HC and hide/advance from pole range to train both stealths while preventing them from possibly wandering to a different room (Though of course you'd only want to do this vs stuff you know won't land hits on you easily).
