THESAVAGE
Gorbesh Pantheon
06/07/2018 08:51 PM CDT
Not sure if there's a forum folder specifically for favors, but if so, I couldn't find it. How about adding the Gorbesh Pantheon to the favor system, even just in a very basic form for those that don't wish to acknowledge the 13? Prydean's got their milk saucers and balls of yarn to favor to, hook a Kaldar up?
SAUVA
Re: Gorbesh Pantheon
06/08/2018 08:08 AM CDT
For whatever reason the 10 do not grant favors.
~Hunter Hanryu
>Everything Rangers have is just a lame version of something cool.~Morkim
~Hunter Hanryu
>Everything Rangers have is just a lame version of something cool.~Morkim
THESAVAGE
Re: Gorbesh Pantheon
06/08/2018 10:00 AM CDT
#GoGorbesh2018 #MakeKermoriaGreatAgain
I have not been able to find any lore specifically stating that they do not grant favor. Any chance you could point me in the right direction?
HASTALUEGO
Re: Gorbesh Pantheon
06/08/2018 11:20 AM CDT
THESAVAGE
Re: Gorbesh Pantheon
06/08/2018 11:36 AM CDT
Oh, thanks! I was more looking for in game lore sources, and actual reason's behind it, not so much that they don't. Glad to see they look forward to developing more on this, and maybe it changi... oh that was 7 years ago.
HASTALUEGO
Re: Gorbesh Pantheon
06/08/2018 11:50 AM CDT
There isn't much in game on the Gorbesh, and the reason behind the 10 not granting favors has been a mystery. The GM who worked on Kaldar lore did leave, though he did develop some lore on how Kaldar traditionally worship the 13 differently.
https://elanthipedia.play.net/Post:Kaldar_and_the_Thirteen_-_10/18/2011_-_06:36
https://elanthipedia.play.net/Post:Kaldar_and_the_Thirteen_-_10/18/2011_-_06:36
TEQUILASUNRISE
Re: Gorbesh Pantheon
06/09/2018 03:33 AM CDT
Lore exists for the Gorbesh Gods being not-nice, but I still find it unreasonable that lore is trumping player choice in this manner.
They released special systems of worship for the prydaen pantheon and the rakash pantheon, so every playable race has their conceivable pantheon of Gods granting in-game favors except the Albarian races (Kaldar/Gnomes). If Asketi grants favors, I'm confident we can find lore reasons for the Albarian pantheon to grant favors.
They released special systems of worship for the prydaen pantheon and the rakash pantheon, so every playable race has their conceivable pantheon of Gods granting in-game favors except the Albarian races (Kaldar/Gnomes). If Asketi grants favors, I'm confident we can find lore reasons for the Albarian pantheon to grant favors.
DR-IOCANTHE
Re: Gorbesh Pantheon
06/09/2018 08:40 AM CDT
Keeping in mind that I'm not a lore-specific race-specific person
There are probably arguments to be made either way, but the Gorbesh gang has seemed, to me, to be sort of a "one and done, sorry you didn't make it" kinda crew.
If you did well, your spirit gets to spend most of eternity in the snowglobe, and when Orisas gets mad enough, she'll toss it down and everyone inside gets freed for one last battle.
Everyone else.. kinda.. sounds like they were the last survivors in their realm and somehow they became immortals.
Some of this could be "History was written by the winners/survivors." stuff - so the books we have are written by those who were left, who wrote what they thought - but we don't have any stories of Joe Gorbesh growing up in the longago times, learning to fight, getting favors and learning to fight more. Does it make some sense that they had a way to come back after death and learn more? Possibly. But based on what we have, we don't know. Prydaen and Rakash had their survival stories that came with them - they were used to surviving and quickly adapted to the Kermorian gods. Kaldar and Gnomes came with a "Well, we use the 13 but we use them how WE see them." but no wheel or pack sort of history that explains these long-held "we get to come back with favors because X, Y, Z" outside of the "we do your thing our way".
Is it possible that at some point we'll have the staff available to delve into Kaldar/Gnome history and "rediscover" some lore that shows more than what we've got? Surely. We are always on the lookout for GMs who love history and lore! (Is this a subtle hint to apply? Maaaaybe!)
That's what it looks like from this side of the curtain, for now, anyway!
Iocanthe
Doing stuff
There are probably arguments to be made either way, but the Gorbesh gang has seemed, to me, to be sort of a "one and done, sorry you didn't make it" kinda crew.
If you did well, your spirit gets to spend most of eternity in the snowglobe, and when Orisas gets mad enough, she'll toss it down and everyone inside gets freed for one last battle.
Everyone else.. kinda.. sounds like they were the last survivors in their realm and somehow they became immortals.
Some of this could be "History was written by the winners/survivors." stuff - so the books we have are written by those who were left, who wrote what they thought - but we don't have any stories of Joe Gorbesh growing up in the longago times, learning to fight, getting favors and learning to fight more. Does it make some sense that they had a way to come back after death and learn more? Possibly. But based on what we have, we don't know. Prydaen and Rakash had their survival stories that came with them - they were used to surviving and quickly adapted to the Kermorian gods. Kaldar and Gnomes came with a "Well, we use the 13 but we use them how WE see them." but no wheel or pack sort of history that explains these long-held "we get to come back with favors because X, Y, Z" outside of the "we do your thing our way".
Is it possible that at some point we'll have the staff available to delve into Kaldar/Gnome history and "rediscover" some lore that shows more than what we've got? Surely. We are always on the lookout for GMs who love history and lore! (Is this a subtle hint to apply? Maaaaybe!)
That's what it looks like from this side of the curtain, for now, anyway!
Iocanthe
Doing stuff
THESAVAGE
Re: Gorbesh Pantheon
06/09/2018 12:48 PM CDT
>>There are probably arguments to be made either way, but the Gorbesh gang has seemed, to me, to be sort of a "one and done, sorry you didn't make it" kinda crew.
Xosiurion lost. Then ruled. Even Dragon God Kings get second chances. I'm not even trying to impose the development of lore as much as I am getting leveled off with all the other races, so I can observe my character's racial heritage and chosen roleplay.
TEQUILASUNRISE
Re: Gorbesh Pantheon
06/09/2018 02:29 PM CDT
>I'm not even trying to impose the development of lore as much as I am getting leveled off with all the other races, so I can observe my character's racial heritage and chosen roleplay.
This is pretty much what I'm saying. We have the 13 and all aspects of them (both light/neutral/dark), the rakash pantheon, the prydaen pantheon, and then Necros get a system to be god-defying heretics. All extant systems of worship mentioned in the lore get mechanical support except for the Gorbesh pantheon.
I would like the option to play as worshipers of them. If we need to bend the lore to make it work, I think that's what we should do. Maybe they demand huge chunks of vitality on top of filling an orb. Maybe they inflict physical wounds whenever they grant a favor. Whatever you need to do, make it grisly, make it mean, just make it viable please.
This is pretty much what I'm saying. We have the 13 and all aspects of them (both light/neutral/dark), the rakash pantheon, the prydaen pantheon, and then Necros get a system to be god-defying heretics. All extant systems of worship mentioned in the lore get mechanical support except for the Gorbesh pantheon.
I would like the option to play as worshipers of them. If we need to bend the lore to make it work, I think that's what we should do. Maybe they demand huge chunks of vitality on top of filling an orb. Maybe they inflict physical wounds whenever they grant a favor. Whatever you need to do, make it grisly, make it mean, just make it viable please.
DR-GREJUVA
Re: Gorbesh Pantheon
06/10/2018 05:53 AM CDT
There are no plans for any more favor systems. In the case of the Alaudian gods, they simply do not bestow favors or resurrection.
>>I'm not even trying to impose the development of lore as much as I am getting leveled off with all the other races, so I can observe my character's racial heritage and chosen roleplay.
If you are roleplaying a Gorbesh or an Albarian Kaldar, their racial heritage includes a belief in permanent death. If you are roleplaying a traditional Kermorian Kaldar, they tend to follow Akiran Dein's teachings.
GM Grejuva
>>I'm not even trying to impose the development of lore as much as I am getting leveled off with all the other races, so I can observe my character's racial heritage and chosen roleplay.
If you are roleplaying a Gorbesh or an Albarian Kaldar, their racial heritage includes a belief in permanent death. If you are roleplaying a traditional Kermorian Kaldar, they tend to follow Akiran Dein's teachings.
GM Grejuva
THESAVAGE
Re: Gorbesh Pantheon
06/10/2018 10:59 AM CDT
>>If you are roleplaying a Gorbesh or an Albarian Kaldar, their racial heritage includes a belief in permanent death.
You're mechanically enforcing a lore path completely ruined by new death mechanics. Even if I die with no favors, I sure don't stay permanently dead. I think it's time for a slight shift and a little retcon.
And before you say "Well if you choose to roleplay a gorbesh and want to stay permanently dead, you could always >check in reroll confirm"... Sure, I could. I could also not get Gorbesh favors if I wanted to observe that they don't believe in second chances (despite Xosiurion ruling after losing his epic battle, even with the support of Tieheq). I'm talking mechanical possibility and playability, and the reasoning to enforce such contradicting itself.
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Gorbesh Pantheon
06/11/2018 06:01 PM CDT
>>You're mechanically enforcing a lore path completely ruined by new death mechanics. Even if I die with no favors, I sure don't stay permanently dead.
>>I'm talking mechanical possibility and playability, and the reasoning to enforce such contradicting itself.
Alternatively, the local Kermorian gods aren't – for whatever perverse reason they have – respecting your own wishes, and the Albarian gods aren't able to – for whatever totally non-perverse reason they have – able to intervene and rescue you from their cruel oversight.
For whatever cruel reason, your character is unable to truly die in a way that adheres to their beliefs, no matter how hard they try.
Is it because Harawep wants you to lose faith in your old ways, as cruel punishment for the way the Gorbesh ruined Kermorian shrines during the war?
Is Chadatru trying to teach you that the true concept of sacrifice means doing something for the good of the world despite your own wish to die an honorable and traditional death?
Is Hodierna wishing to teach you the power that someone's life can have, and that it shouldn't be lost forever during an unfortunate moment?
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
>>I'm talking mechanical possibility and playability, and the reasoning to enforce such contradicting itself.
Alternatively, the local Kermorian gods aren't – for whatever perverse reason they have – respecting your own wishes, and the Albarian gods aren't able to – for whatever totally non-perverse reason they have – able to intervene and rescue you from their cruel oversight.
For whatever cruel reason, your character is unable to truly die in a way that adheres to their beliefs, no matter how hard they try.
Is it because Harawep wants you to lose faith in your old ways, as cruel punishment for the way the Gorbesh ruined Kermorian shrines during the war?
Is Chadatru trying to teach you that the true concept of sacrifice means doing something for the good of the world despite your own wish to die an honorable and traditional death?
Is Hodierna wishing to teach you the power that someone's life can have, and that it shouldn't be lost forever during an unfortunate moment?
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
JULIAN
Re: Gorbesh Pantheon
06/12/2018 08:02 AM CDT
Alternatively alternatively: The gods don't care about you. You are a recurring error in the divine production cycle but since you don't affect their business at all, whatever it may be, the cost of yanking your soul out to let you actually die is greater than the benefit (to them) of just letting you loop through endlessly regardless of your wishes. You are grist in the mill and you don't get a say in when the miller cleans his wheel.
/leans in
Don't you feel better?
Mazrian
/leans in
Don't you feel better?
Mazrian
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Gorbesh Pantheon
06/12/2018 10:16 AM CDT
>>Alternatively alternatively: The gods don't care about you. You are a recurring error in the divine production cycle but since you don't affect their business at all, whatever it may be, the cost of yanking your soul out to let you actually die is greater than the benefit (to them) of just letting you loop through endlessly regardless of your wishes. You are grist in the mill and you don't get a say in when the miller cleans his wheel.
This is personally my favorite take of all of them, too.
While it can be disappointing that you can't have your Albarian-embracing self do everything you wish you could do, given the divine level of interaction this involves I would take it as an excellent opportunity to have your character respond to the fact that they can't do what they want to do, and the local holy rulers don't care all that much.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
This is personally my favorite take of all of them, too.
While it can be disappointing that you can't have your Albarian-embracing self do everything you wish you could do, given the divine level of interaction this involves I would take it as an excellent opportunity to have your character respond to the fact that they can't do what they want to do, and the local holy rulers don't care all that much.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
DR-ARMIFER
Re: Gorbesh Pantheon
06/12/2018 02:54 PM CDT
>>You're mechanically enforcing a lore path completely ruined by new death mechanics. Even if I die with no favors, I sure don't stay permanently dead. I think it's time for a slight shift and a little retcon.
If you die and are returned from the dead by divine force, ICly, one of three things are happening.
1) The Immortals are resurrecting you.
2) The Immortal-Adjacent ("Mrod") gods are resurrecting you.
3) The Hunger is resurrecting you.
Your character can have divergent beliefs and in such things there can be many fun stories, but that's what's going on in the setting as it stands. Your character is not promised either perfect knowledge or untroubled faith.
-Armifer
"Perinthia's astronomers are faced with a difficult choice. Either they must admit that all their calculations were wrong ... or else they must reveal that the order of the gods is reflected exactly in the city of monsters." - Italo Calvino
If you die and are returned from the dead by divine force, ICly, one of three things are happening.
1) The Immortals are resurrecting you.
2) The Immortal-Adjacent ("Mrod") gods are resurrecting you.
3) The Hunger is resurrecting you.
Your character can have divergent beliefs and in such things there can be many fun stories, but that's what's going on in the setting as it stands. Your character is not promised either perfect knowledge or untroubled faith.
-Armifer
"Perinthia's astronomers are faced with a difficult choice. Either they must admit that all their calculations were wrong ... or else they must reveal that the order of the gods is reflected exactly in the city of monsters." - Italo Calvino
2DUMBARSE
Re: Gorbesh Pantheon
06/14/2018 09:08 AM CDT
>3) The Hunger is resurrecting you.
This one is news to me. Creepy.
I find the lore of mortality in DR to be some of the most interesting kind. Under the aspect of eternity, the death of one dude in one bubble that can pop at any instant under pressure from vengeful forces in other bubbles is just not terribly significant in the same way it isn't IRL. That said, if I'm omnipotent and my dog dies, I'm bringing her back whether or not she propitiated leading up to the personal tragedy; whether or not she liked my girlfriend better than me. You can take that as far as you like. I can easily imagine caprice and selfishness would increase over time were I immortal. With a few thought experiments, necromancers start to sound a lot less pathological. I might even be able to show sympathy for The Hunger, and I genuinely like people.
In case it's not stuck in your head already... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c03d0NAK3vk
This one is news to me. Creepy.
I find the lore of mortality in DR to be some of the most interesting kind. Under the aspect of eternity, the death of one dude in one bubble that can pop at any instant under pressure from vengeful forces in other bubbles is just not terribly significant in the same way it isn't IRL. That said, if I'm omnipotent and my dog dies, I'm bringing her back whether or not she propitiated leading up to the personal tragedy; whether or not she liked my girlfriend better than me. You can take that as far as you like. I can easily imagine caprice and selfishness would increase over time were I immortal. With a few thought experiments, necromancers start to sound a lot less pathological. I might even be able to show sympathy for The Hunger, and I genuinely like people.
In case it's not stuck in your head already... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c03d0NAK3vk
DR-ARMIFER
Re: Gorbesh Pantheon
06/14/2018 04:48 PM CDT
>>This one is news to me. Creepy.
This only really relates to Necromancers. It's an open secret at this point that the "Profane Aegis" is the Hunger's intervention in sending a Necromancer's soul back to Elanthia.
-Armifer
"Perinthia's astronomers are faced with a difficult choice. Either they must admit that all their calculations were wrong ... or else they must reveal that the order of the gods is reflected exactly in the city of monsters." - Italo Calvino
This only really relates to Necromancers. It's an open secret at this point that the "Profane Aegis" is the Hunger's intervention in sending a Necromancer's soul back to Elanthia.
-Armifer
"Perinthia's astronomers are faced with a difficult choice. Either they must admit that all their calculations were wrong ... or else they must reveal that the order of the gods is reflected exactly in the city of monsters." - Italo Calvino
