It's rude (ooc) to point people out of hiding, unless you've a reason (ic), which makes it a tricky thing. I generally never point people out of hiding unless I'm willing/interested to play out a conflict of some sort. Pointing out people on a boat can really piss them off because sometimes they are hiding to avoid thieves and you just pulled them out of that safety. It's really up to you, but keep in mind that hiding is one of the few ways of avoiding getting stolen from and many use it for that.

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>dance sprite
A water sprite laughs and spins away as you approach her for a dance!

>It's rude (ooc) to point people out of hiding,

If pointing people out of hiding is OoC, so is hiding in the first place. If pointing people out of hiding is rude, so is hiding in the first place.

~ Sage Kougen Aensworth, Advisor of Ilithi

ReverendReene: It's not often I'm rendered speechless but you sure do it a lot.

Since I generally play a trader character, I usually point out a person who is in hiding. We traders are often the targets of theives and if you are hiding in a room that I'm in, then expect me to point you out. If a person tells me that they have no intention of stealing from me then I usually won't point them out, but it my gems or coin start coming up missing or if I get that trader message about "pockets feeling heavier" and "you doubt it was a donation" then I'm pointing anything I can see out. If you don't like it then train your hiding or peception skills better or don't hide at all. There's being rude as player and being rude as a character, don't confuse the two.


_____________________________________
Gnomes Rule!

>usually if You can see the person thats hiding, that is NOT the person that's doing the stealing.

Seriously. You're not protecting yourself at all.


~Purehand

My point was that there is no one real answer to the question of "pointing etiquette" and you're going to get as many situational, gray zone answers as you are on the consent policy - mainly because as soon as someone has a problem with it, they're the same thing (as the Gonif Gang was so 'kind' to point out). They can get as mad about it as they want, but just pointing at someone is not consent, in the same way that Halt is "not consent" (i.e. Not consent unless x, or y, or z, etc.). Pointing repeatedly can be argued as harassment, though. If you're pointing as someone so that your buddy can steal from them, they probably have a good argument for consent. And so forth.

It doesn't always have to be about stealing, either. For example, I've pointed someone out of hiding because I saw them advancing on someone else (who couldn't). Now what?

It's just like anything else in the Realms. Do what you have to do to protect yourself. But don't be surprised when other people take exception to being interacted with.

~ Sage Kougen Aensworth, Advisor of Ilithi

ReverendReene: It's not often I'm rendered speechless but you sure do it a lot.

Oops, old Halt rules. For some reason those are stuck in my head the way they were the year I rolled up my Paladin.

Bad example, rest of argument still applies. If someone wants to make a consent/harassment/human rights issue out of something, they'll find a way, whether you did anything 'wrong' or not.

~ Sage Kougen Aensworth, Advisor of Ilithi

ReverendReene: It's not often I'm rendered speechless but you sure do it a lot.

Only grants consent if the person tells you to quit.

>>It doesn't always have to be about stealing, either. For example, I've pointed someone out of hiding because I saw them advancing on someone else (who couldn't). Now what?

Now you've interfered with a conflict and pulled yourself into it

~Arwinia

Thieves will continue to be dominated by the awesome power of the perceive health ability - that which causes rivers to dry up, babies to cry, and the earth to shake.
Stand back mortal, lest ye health be perceived.
-Ssra

>>It's rude (ooc) to point people out of hiding, unless you've a reason (ic), which makes it a tricky thing.

This is a huge gray area. IRL, if you were shopping in a department store and a guy came in wearing a heavy coat and baggy pants in the middle of summer, and proceeded to try to conceal himself from the security cameras and other shoppers, plenty of concerned people would want to "point him out" and draw the attention of the other people around you to him. Of course more people, probably even the majority of people, would say, "Not my responsibility" and ignore him.

A lot of the characters in DR are really cliche like that too. I see no way you could call pointing someone out an "OOC action" when he or she enters the room with a criminal or thiefly title, wearing black leathers with skulls embossed, a mask to hide their face, a loaded crossbow or a black dagger, and ducks behind the nearest barrel. If you blatantly look and/or act like a criminal it's entirely IC for a stranger to point you out and treat you like one.

It doesn't even need to be as extravagant as that to be an IC action. It could be as simple as, "My character is paranoid" or "We've had a string of assassinations so I'm being a concerned citizen."

Of course, policy makes no mention of what may or not be IC/OOC reasoning for anything so even if you don't like to RP being blissfully ignorant of your surroundings, you point at your own risk.

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Therefore a wise prince will seek means by which his subjects will always and in every possible condition of things have need of his government, and then they will always be faithful to him. --Niccolo Machiavelli, "The Prince"

Interesting point. Right now, I can tell you off about something and simply because we were arguing you can assume the spell I'm prepping is hostile even if the spell quite literally cannot be cast on other people. Thus, you have consent and can kill me before I even cast the spell.

Hiding has a few extra challenges, I think, but what is the logical assumption about hiding? First, you are probably trying to pick my pockets. Second, and this is especially true in negative exchanges, you're trying to snipe, backstab, or ambush me. You might simply be trying to run away, but I (as in most players) have no way to tell you've marked me much less have snuck off whimpering like a kicked puppy and therefore I have to assume you have hostile intentions towards me.

J'Lo, I'm a ranger.. I'd believe anything.....
The Manipulation List -- http://symphaena.com/index.html

>> If pointing someone out of hiding is poor etiquette, why wouldn't hiding on someone also be poor etiquette?

Pointing is an action that is taken directly against another character. The same is not true for hiding.

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Rev. Reene

Totenus says, "I am not Alfonso, quit throwing bacon at me."

<<It's worth repeating that it is within policy to attack someone for prepping a spell if you think they are about to cast it at you.

Only if you and the character in question is actively involved in a conflict.

Some people need to have these things spelled out.

>> It's taken "directly" against every other character in the room, though.

No, it's not. Someone hiding in your room passively affects you. Now if they steal from you, or you're in an active fight with them, the argument for direct impact can be made.

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Rev. Reene

Totenus says, "I am not Alfonso, quit throwing bacon at me."

>> I know that in the real world if I see someone obviously skulking in the bushes, I'm going to be asking, "Hey you! What are you doing in there?" Anyone would.

I lived in LA.

When you see someone lurking in the bushes in LA, you don't stop and ask them what they're doing. You walk faster.

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Rev. Reene

Totenus says, "I am not Alfonso, quit throwing bacon at me."

I live in Texas. When you see someone lurking in the bushes here, you draw your gun and shoot them before they have the chance to do the same to you. Especially if it happens at night, or you're a woman, no police or jury would be likely to find fault in it.

Unfortunately in DR you can't shoot creepy bush-lurkers until they shoot you first.

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Therefore a wise prince will seek means by which his subjects will always and in every possible condition of things have need of his government, and then they will always be faithful to him. --Niccolo Machiavelli, "The Prince"

>>I know that in the real world if I see someone obviously skulking in the bushes, I'm going to be asking, "Hey you! What are you doing in there?" Anyone would. Pointing or otherwise calling attention to the hider would seem to be the natural response to discovering a person hiding.

>>But hiding mechanics in DR are contrived at best. Not only do they allow for blatant stealth (an oxymoron anywhere else), but the point effect takes someone out of his hiding spot. If in the real world you call attention to that fellow behind the bushes, he remains in his hiding spot ... those who heard you simply know he's there. In DR, you've yanked him out of the bushes completely. You've actually effected him, rather than simply revealing his location to everyone else.

interesting point, why not just say "hey **, what are you doing behind that bush/statue/wherever?"
in the game, then your not pointing them out of hiding, but you are alerting others to their presence

--
Treat empaths with respect, you'll live longer
--
let us paint you a picture with our words
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http://blog.myspace.com/57223313

>I live in Texas. When you see someone lurking in the bushes here, you draw your gun and shoot them before they have the chance to do the same to you.

Which would be fine if they were going to shoot you, except that there are reasons people might lurk in bushes that have nothing to do with you or causing injury to anyone.

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Szeldia appears almost as a serpent's eye in the sky above, its bright white atmosphere glowing ferally about a malevolent black core.

>>Well, in Tx if I see you sneaking around in the bushes on my property, it is called Criminal Mischeif at Night. I get to shoot you. You break into my car at night, same offense same result. You attacking someone else, Defense of the Third Person, I get to use the same type of force that you are using. If more than two people are attacking the same person or if two are beating someone who is immobolized or unconcious, I get to shoot you as well ... because you were evidently trying to kill him as opposed to anything else.

Man, I love Texas. Would that NC were more like it, except for the (slightly) increased obesity. And the climate. And the "barbecue."

...

And the sweet tea.

~Kashik

I'm pretty sure spotting someone sneaking onto/around on my boat doesn't give me consent, either.

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Rev. Reene

(10:43:46 PM) Xelten: YOU PLAY A TEXT BASED RPG MAN, YOU ARE NOT COOL, PUT THE HAT THE RIGHT WAY