There are rooms all over Elanthia that are considered gathering places. These are places, that for one reason or another, people come to gather. Perhaps it's a good foraging spot, like outside the northeast or west gate of Crossing. Or maybe it's just a mana spot like the bank atrium on Ratha. For whatever reason, many people like to gather in these places to work on skills, chat, get healing, what have you.
I wandered to one such place to do a bit of foraging today. As I entered, I noticed boxes all over the ground. Foraging was foolish to even try, because the room was beyond cluttered. Thinking them empties, I looked in one and noticed it was still closed and locked. All of them were, to the tune of 15 or so boxes just sitting there. But their owners appeared to be sitting right there, so I asked politely if they would mind picking them up so I could do a bit of foraging.
They were somewhat polite at first, stating simply that I should move east. I mentioned that I should not have to move and be inconvenienced simply because they made a mess. It's not just the moving, but I have less success in finding my items in the room they were trying to move me to. To which the fellow simply shrugged and told me he wasn't going to pick them up. A bit frustrated at this point, I stated that it's rather rude to clutter a public place like this. The true owner of the boxes then returned with MORE boxes and took up the fight.
She claimed that this spot is public, that people come here to gather and talk and open boxes. But then she said that they were here first, and so they were putting a "claim" of sorts on the room, contradicting herself. The thought occurred to just pick them up myself, and I mentioned so, but I was threatened with death if I touched them. And my intent is not to steal their treasure, just to get the mess cleaned up!
I think cluttering a known public room is rude. One can open boxes just fine without dropping them all over the place. You can put ONE on the ground at a time as you're working on it. Why should I have to move to forage because you left a mess all over the place? Just because you were there first does not give you the right to completely trash the room.
The bottom line is, if you choose to leave things lying all over the ground that's fine. But don't do it in an area that people tend to use rather frequently for other uses, because clutter is an eyesore, and someone might want to forage!
ANDERSONS16
FONTAINED2
Re: Clutter and You
09/07/2003 07:09 PM CDT
There are literally thousands of rooms in Elanthia. With the exception of a few extremely powerful mana rooms, they're all pretty much the same. They were there first, why not just find someplace else? I mean there's sitting there playing DR, minding their own business and you walk in and demand they change what they're doing? I don't think so. Sorry, I feel your actions were rude.
Gizella
Gizella
DRAQ
Re: Clutter and You
09/07/2003 08:26 PM CDT
I'd have to agree that cluttering a public room is at best inconsiderate, if not thoughtless and rude.
Steel.
YOU HAVE <insert ability here>!! YOU ARE OVERPOWERED!! DIE GUILD DIE!!!
It has a dragonrealms section so I can spam it! Go me!
http://www.angelfire.com/dragon/steelflash
Steel.
YOU HAVE <insert ability here>!! YOU ARE OVERPOWERED!! DIE GUILD DIE!!!
It has a dragonrealms section so I can spam it! Go me!
http://www.angelfire.com/dragon/steelflash
ANDERSONS16
Re: Clutter and You
09/07/2003 08:30 PM CDT
Politely asking them to pick up their things and demanding they do so are completely different things. I politely asked if they would please pick up their boxes.
There is absolutely NO NEED for those boxes to be all over the ground. There are bags and containers available everywhere for a couple of silver. Keep a backpack on the ground filled with boxes, not 15 or 16 individual boxes.
I don't leave my things all over the ground in a public park making it useless to everyone else. I ask that people in Elanthia have the respect to drop their junk in places people do not have to see it.
There is absolutely NO NEED for those boxes to be all over the ground. There are bags and containers available everywhere for a couple of silver. Keep a backpack on the ground filled with boxes, not 15 or 16 individual boxes.
I don't leave my things all over the ground in a public park making it useless to everyone else. I ask that people in Elanthia have the respect to drop their junk in places people do not have to see it.
NKRISS
Re: Clutter and You
09/07/2003 09:09 PM CDT
Shoulda just called a Ranger, I'd have composted or beseeched the room and taught em a lesson about trashin a public place. At least until the guards get updated and they arrest people for littering a room with crap.
-Teeklin Tessenoak, Proud Ranger of Elanthia
"Resist. Unlearn. Defy." - Incubus
-Teeklin Tessenoak, Proud Ranger of Elanthia
"Resist. Unlearn. Defy." - Incubus
DRAQ
Re: Clutter and You
09/07/2003 09:19 PM CDT
Gonna compost in a room with 15 or 16 trapped boxes? Send me the log.
Steel.
YOU HAVE <insert ability here>!! YOU ARE OVERPOWERED!! DIE GUILD DIE!!!
It has a dragonrealms section so I can spam it! Go me!
http://www.angelfire.com/dragon/steelflash
Steel.
YOU HAVE <insert ability here>!! YOU ARE OVERPOWERED!! DIE GUILD DIE!!!
It has a dragonrealms section so I can spam it! Go me!
http://www.angelfire.com/dragon/steelflash
ALLGRINNELL
Re: Clutter and You
09/07/2003 09:47 PM CDT
Trashing rooms is especially inconsiderate given the recent changes to foraging. People are struggling to find rooms in which they can learn. By trashing the room not only are they being rude, they could be preventing people from actually figuring out a workable map of foraging.
FONTAINED2
Re: Clutter and You
09/07/2003 09:50 PM CDT
One person's "trashing" a room is another person's "minding my own business, playing with boxes." I maintain if someone is there and doing something it's unreasonable for a newcomer to demand they change for their convenience instead of just walking to another room.
WIJBRANDUS
Re: Clutter and You
09/07/2003 09:56 PM CDT
To my eyes, if it's on the ground in a "common area", it's free for the taking.
I probably would have cleaned up all the loot, and then gone about foraging.
I keep my personal stuff on my person, and figure only the careless or the carefree do otherwise.
~Kodiac
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent, but you'd be a fool to withhold that from your superiors."
I probably would have cleaned up all the loot, and then gone about foraging.
I keep my personal stuff on my person, and figure only the careless or the carefree do otherwise.
~Kodiac
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent, but you'd be a fool to withhold that from your superiors."
ALLGRINNELL
Re: Clutter and You
09/07/2003 10:59 PM CDT
>>One person's "trashing" a room is another person's "minding my own business, playing with boxes." I maintain if someone is there and doing something it's unreasonable for a newcomer to demand they change for their convenience instead of just walking to another room.
If this was a situation in a random room in a hunting area, an out of the way spot, that's fine and I'd agree with you. But when someone clutters up a popular foraging spot and gathering room, they should out of courtesy remove all their crap when someone asks politely.
And yes, Kodiac, I'd probably do the same, unless I thought they could and would kill me for it :-)
Pretty sure no GM would touch that one, since it explicitly states in policy that other than in hunting rooms you shouldn't leave your stuff on the ground and expect people not to take it.
If this was a situation in a random room in a hunting area, an out of the way spot, that's fine and I'd agree with you. But when someone clutters up a popular foraging spot and gathering room, they should out of courtesy remove all their crap when someone asks politely.
And yes, Kodiac, I'd probably do the same, unless I thought they could and would kill me for it :-)
Pretty sure no GM would touch that one, since it explicitly states in policy that other than in hunting rooms you shouldn't leave your stuff on the ground and expect people not to take it.
CRAMNEVETS
Re: Clutter and You
09/08/2003 02:58 AM CDT
I agree.
There is no reason to be cutting up rooms.
Rooms are small enough without slicing away parts of them and making them smaller.
Hun?
What's that?
Clutter? Not cutting?
Nevermind.
Illcram the Evil Empath
http://www.topmudsites.com/cgi-bin/topmuds/rankem.cgi?id=drealms
There is no reason to be cutting up rooms.
Rooms are small enough without slicing away parts of them and making them smaller.
Hun?
What's that?
Clutter? Not cutting?
Nevermind.
Illcram the Evil Empath
http://www.topmudsites.com/cgi-bin/topmuds/rankem.cgi?id=drealms
PANMELI
Re: Clutter and You
09/08/2003 04:18 AM CDT
Take the boxes and toss them in the next room.
Problem solved.
Pam
Problem solved.
Pam
MEINDZAI
Re: Clutter and You
09/08/2003 06:20 AM CDT
All etiquette, protocol, and beliefs about what is right and wrong in this situation aside - what is the practial reason for having 15 boxes lying on the ground in the first place? I'm still stuck on that point before I can talk about the actual clutter.
OLESH
Re: Clutter and You
09/08/2003 08:48 AM CDT
Not entirely sure. When I would pick sand sprite boxes for a friend, often I would do 100+ boxes at one sitting. For the sake of speed and convenience, he would simply drop them on the ground, and when they were picked, he'd drag them and break them open like that. Once everything was done, he could simply pick the treasure up from the ground. But we always did that in an out of the way place, and it was always obvious what we were doing. It sounds like this person was just being a pain.
Give a man a fire, you'll keep him warm for a day.
Set a man on fire, you'll keep him warm for the rest of his life.
- Terry Pratchett, 'Jingo'
Give a man a fire, you'll keep him warm for a day.
Set a man on fire, you'll keep him warm for the rest of his life.
- Terry Pratchett, 'Jingo'
DULCINIA
Re: Clutter and You
09/08/2003 09:25 AM CDT
I'd have loved to beseech that room. Compost? No way!
~Dulcinia
"I don't dig on swine."
~Dulcinia
"I don't dig on swine."
MEINDZAI
Re: Clutter and You
09/08/2003 09:54 AM CDT
Nobody is ever going to totally agree on the "etiquette" aspect of this problem, because we won't be able to come to agreement on the more basic questions like "what is clutter?" and "what is a common room?" and "who has rights to a room?" etc. So the only aspect of this we can talk about is the practical one.
Putting 15 unpopped boxes on the ground anywhere is just a bad idea. In doing so you take a risk. Also remember that as far as policy goes, anything you purposely drop on the ground, save for certain items such as wayerd pyramids, cigars for lighting, etc., is fair game.
From NEWS 5 5 concerning the janitor and dropped items:
There is never a reason to put your items on the ground, even for a second,
except to get rid of them (unless the item was designed to be used on the
ground, like a Wayerd Pyramid or a picnic basket). If something of yours gets
put on the ground for you, retrieve it as quickly as possible. However, if
the item is lost before it can be recovered, then there is nothing we can do
to replace it for you. It does not matter if you put them there deliberately,
if you were disarmed, or if you were forced to drop the item some other way.
All items on the ground are at risk of permanent loss, and cannot be
authorized for replacement. We apologize for any inconveniences associated
with the system, but hope you understand the need for its existence.
I once lost an entire backpack in the wharf under riverhaven, becuase I dropped it to lower my encumbrance, and I thought I could just pick it back up later. I went out of the room and back, and it was gone, (about 5 seconds had passed).
-M
Putting 15 unpopped boxes on the ground anywhere is just a bad idea. In doing so you take a risk. Also remember that as far as policy goes, anything you purposely drop on the ground, save for certain items such as wayerd pyramids, cigars for lighting, etc., is fair game.
From NEWS 5 5 concerning the janitor and dropped items:
There is never a reason to put your items on the ground, even for a second,
except to get rid of them (unless the item was designed to be used on the
ground, like a Wayerd Pyramid or a picnic basket). If something of yours gets
put on the ground for you, retrieve it as quickly as possible. However, if
the item is lost before it can be recovered, then there is nothing we can do
to replace it for you. It does not matter if you put them there deliberately,
if you were disarmed, or if you were forced to drop the item some other way.
All items on the ground are at risk of permanent loss, and cannot be
authorized for replacement. We apologize for any inconveniences associated
with the system, but hope you understand the need for its existence.
I once lost an entire backpack in the wharf under riverhaven, becuase I dropped it to lower my encumbrance, and I thought I could just pick it back up later. I went out of the room and back, and it was gone, (about 5 seconds had passed).
-M
DRAQ
Re: Clutter and You
09/08/2003 02:45 PM CDT
Correct, JM. As there is no Etiquette GM, there is no official rule on it. However I think for something as silly as box clutter a reasonable solution should have been reached.
>Also remember that as far as policy goes, anything you purposely drop on the ground, save for certain items such as wayerd pyramids, cigars for lighting, etc., is fair game.
Unless you guard them, and there's pleanty of time in the "You realize that isn't yours" timer for you to guard it. Not that I had a point to go with that statement.
Steel.
YOU HAVE <insert ability here>!! YOU ARE OVERPOWERED!! DIE GUILD DIE!!!
It has a dragonrealms section so I can spam it! Go me!
http://www.angelfire.com/dragon/steelflash
>Also remember that as far as policy goes, anything you purposely drop on the ground, save for certain items such as wayerd pyramids, cigars for lighting, etc., is fair game.
Unless you guard them, and there's pleanty of time in the "You realize that isn't yours" timer for you to guard it. Not that I had a point to go with that statement.
Steel.
YOU HAVE <insert ability here>!! YOU ARE OVERPOWERED!! DIE GUILD DIE!!!
It has a dragonrealms section so I can spam it! Go me!
http://www.angelfire.com/dragon/steelflash
MORNINGSTORM
Re: Clutter and You
09/08/2003 05:29 PM CDT
If the boxes were strewn out it's probably because they were going to set about popping them. Griping that they are taking a room from you by "Cluttering it" is silly and this post smacks of righteous indignity. I pop my boxes like that when out in Ratha. It's a group thing. Pop em, drag em pick up the stuff. It's easy and usually done in half an hour.
Those folks, being there first, have every right to sit and pop their boxes. You came along late. Move on and come back later.
It's like politely asking a barbarian to move to a different room because the one he's in has good mana and he's not going to be using it anyway.
-Steele, I would expect better of you.
As for composting the room, You gave consent. That is treasure and you essentially stole it. So, until you give back what you took, you oughta be in a world of hurt.
Over something as simple and stupid as a room being cluttered because someone was doing something else and you, coming after, couldn't.
Get the heads out of the tails.
Jerevth
Into the pit with those bloodthirsty sons of ~Rakash Lasses~
Those folks, being there first, have every right to sit and pop their boxes. You came along late. Move on and come back later.
It's like politely asking a barbarian to move to a different room because the one he's in has good mana and he's not going to be using it anyway.
-Steele, I would expect better of you.
As for composting the room, You gave consent. That is treasure and you essentially stole it. So, until you give back what you took, you oughta be in a world of hurt.
Over something as simple and stupid as a room being cluttered because someone was doing something else and you, coming after, couldn't.
Get the heads out of the tails.
Jerevth
Into the pit with those bloodthirsty sons of ~Rakash Lasses~
OLESH
Re: Clutter and You
09/08/2003 08:12 PM CDT
Personally, I would have simply gone and done something else. Some things aren't worth bothering with. Yeah, you could beseech or compost the room, but then what? That person isn't going to simply grovel and back away. If they really intended something with those boxes, they will probably kill you for it. It's not a big deal. So you can't forage right away. Come back twenty minutes later and see if that person has left. Or go hunt for an hour. You are mildly inconvenienced by not being able to forage right that second. So the person is being rude and obnoxious. What are you going to do, cry about it on the boards?
Give a man a fire, you'll keep him warm for a day.
Set a man on fire, you'll keep him warm for the rest of his life.
- Terry Pratchett, 'Jingo'
Give a man a fire, you'll keep him warm for a day.
Set a man on fire, you'll keep him warm for the rest of his life.
- Terry Pratchett, 'Jingo'
PANMELI
Re: Clutter and You
09/09/2003 02:04 AM CDT
Some hunters, in particular the Adan'f gathering spot, drop boxes for other people who may want them, i.e. as tips for all the empaths (currently there or will arrive there later) if they want the boxes.
Kind of like how people drop gems on the floor as a thank you to all the clerics and empaths who helped during an invasion.
It's a shoddy practise in my opinion since it's a lazy and potentially rude way of saying thank you. But it's common enough.
As I said earlier: Pick up the box "clutter" and drop them in the next room.
Simple solution. Doesn't take much brain power to figure that out.
Pam
Kind of like how people drop gems on the floor as a thank you to all the clerics and empaths who helped during an invasion.
It's a shoddy practise in my opinion since it's a lazy and potentially rude way of saying thank you. But it's common enough.
As I said earlier: Pick up the box "clutter" and drop them in the next room.
Simple solution. Doesn't take much brain power to figure that out.
Pam
SEFKOWK
Re: Clutter and You
09/09/2003 03:24 PM CDT
I agree that it was incredibly rude of them to leave it laying around. I mean, it's just not that hard to put them in a backpack and have that on the ground instead.
It could've been neat to beseech... when they started seeing messages about small funnels starting to form, I bet they'd clean up their stuff some.
~Ariendra
It could've been neat to beseech... when they started seeing messages about small funnels starting to form, I bet they'd clean up their stuff some.
~Ariendra
SLIMER456
Re: Clutter and You
01/03/2004 01:17 AM CST
There's always revenge. Drop tons of junk in their room whenever you find that person foraging.
Muely
Muely
JONESN16
Re: Clutter and You
05/16/2004 08:51 AM CDT
There are literally thousands of rooms in Elanthia. With the exception of a few extremely powerful mana rooms, they're all pretty much the same. They were there first, why not just find someplace else? I mean there's sitting there playing DR, minding their own business and you walk in and demand they change what they're doing? I don't think so. Sorry, I feel your actions were rude.
well true they were there first, but it was a public room, lasst i heard, read the dictionary, been told by someone who knows more than, or any other measn by knowing something from an other,, public and private room means two totally different things? and correct me if i am wrong but if some one was " there first" that would turn it into a private thing, yes?
so in turn if you are sitting in a public place, you cant just automatically say " this is my room i do what i want here and bugger off to those that dont know any better" and expect for someone ten- or even shorter or even longer times from the point in time you say that to even have heasrd you , i mean how am i supposed ta know that you have staked a claim on a public room , when i have been asleep for a week adn comeback in and go to that same public room you are in that which is where myself and a few friends regularly meet at, how am i supposed to know ? huh?
dont make no senses heh? well just like you dont make no sense trying to say that a public room can become a private room....
well true they were there first, but it was a public room, lasst i heard, read the dictionary, been told by someone who knows more than, or any other measn by knowing something from an other,, public and private room means two totally different things? and correct me if i am wrong but if some one was " there first" that would turn it into a private thing, yes?
so in turn if you are sitting in a public place, you cant just automatically say " this is my room i do what i want here and bugger off to those that dont know any better" and expect for someone ten- or even shorter or even longer times from the point in time you say that to even have heasrd you , i mean how am i supposed ta know that you have staked a claim on a public room , when i have been asleep for a week adn comeback in and go to that same public room you are in that which is where myself and a few friends regularly meet at, how am i supposed to know ? huh?
dont make no senses heh? well just like you dont make no sense trying to say that a public room can become a private room....
THUNDERHAWK
Re: Clutter and You
08/16/2004 01:18 PM CDT
>>well true they were there first, but it was a public room, lasst i heard, read the dictionary, been told by someone who knows more than, or any other measn by knowing something from an other,, public and private room means two totally different things? and correct me if i am wrong but if some one was " there first" that would turn it into a private thing, yes?
so in turn if you are sitting in a public place, you cant just automatically say " this is my room i do what i want here and bugger off to those that dont know any better" and expect for someone ten- or even shorter or even longer times from the point in time you say that to even have heasrd you , i mean how am i supposed ta know that you have staked a claim on a public room , when i have been asleep for a week adn comeback in and go to that same public room you are in that which is where myself and a few friends regularly meet at, how am i supposed to know ? huh?
dont make no senses heh? well just like you dont make no sense trying to say that a public room can become a private room.... <<
...Huh?...
Never leave a live enemy behind you.
so in turn if you are sitting in a public place, you cant just automatically say " this is my room i do what i want here and bugger off to those that dont know any better" and expect for someone ten- or even shorter or even longer times from the point in time you say that to even have heasrd you , i mean how am i supposed ta know that you have staked a claim on a public room , when i have been asleep for a week adn comeback in and go to that same public room you are in that which is where myself and a few friends regularly meet at, how am i supposed to know ? huh?
dont make no senses heh? well just like you dont make no sense trying to say that a public room can become a private room.... <<
...Huh?...
Never leave a live enemy behind you.
