Please keep your "help" to yourself. 04/11/2002 09:59 AM CDT
I've been playing DragonRealms off and on since the AOL days, years and years ago. As it stands right now, I have a few characters, none of them over level 15. I don't concentrate on my skills so much as I concentrate on my interactions with other characters. Sometimes I think I use the "act" verb more often than all the other verbs combined, because it allows me to be more eloquent, as I am a writer and I enjoy a much longer action sometimes than just "Aurora kisses you".

As days go by, I realize more and more that so many in Elanthia seem to have higher circles than my characters, and there are many that think they're Hodierna's Gift to Elanthia because of it. (Please note I said "many" and not "all".) Now I don't claim to know everything, there are new things that are added all of the time that I don't necessarily catch onto, but if I see someone do some cool verb I'll whisper "Hey! How did you do that??"

But unless I ask for help, I really don't want it. Here is an example: I was playing in a populated room with the fiancee of one of my characters. I typed in:

act strokes her fingers through character's hair lovingly.

Now there is of course a verb that does a similar thing, "unbraid character hair". A higher level character than I, who hadn't had anything to say to me up until this point, sends me a very distracting OOC whisper, "You can do that with unbraid <person> hair". It was distracting, it was annoying, it was almost humiliating that this other character felt to need to "instruct" me on this. And of course this is just an example. There are several other situations in which it's happened to me and I haven't appreciated it. In the real world, not many of us are too happy when someone peeks over our shoulder and critiques us for no reason. Perhaps it is just me, but if I had not known of this verb, I STILL would not have cared! DragonRealms is a world for us to explore and discover on our own, not for those who are "learned" to instruct and act haughty about it.

There are, of course, those novices out there that desperately need help and may not know it. I have helped them out on numerous occasions, but they are easy to spot and such an action is done in kindness. But unless I ask for help, I don't want it! Especially when you are trying to prove to the masses how long you've been playing or how good of a verber you are, please keep your comments to yourself. I, for one, do not want to hear them. I have my own style.


~DesolateAurora
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Re: Please keep your "help" to yourself. 04/11/2002 10:22 AM CDT
>>Especially when you are trying to prove to the masses how long you've been playing or how good of a verber you are

>>I've been playing DragonRealms off and on since the AOL days, years and years ago.

>>Sometimes I think I use the "act" verb more often than all the other verbs combined, because it allows me to be more eloquent, as I am a writer and I enjoy a much longer action sometimes than just "Aurora kisses you".

Hypocrisy at it's finest..

>>it was almost humiliating that this other character felt to need to "instruct" me on this

It was humiliating only because you chose to see it that way.

>>please keep your comments to yourself

If this is the way you treat people who are trying to help (and there's no way to tell that you don't want it, unless they know you) then we'd appreciate it if you do the same. Complaining about folks trying to help you, just because you really didn't want it, is also considered a breach of etiquette. Accept the gesture gracefully, and move on.

>>But unless I ask for help, I really don't want it

Rest assured, you'll never get any help from me.

~Kyrrian, et al.
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Re: Please keep your "help" to yourself. 04/11/2002 11:06 AM CDT
Most people don't tell other people things because they're trying to prove they're higher and verbier than someone else. Most of the time, they just do it to be nice. Especially in a whisper, no one will see that except you, so it's not like you're being publically put down for not knowing a verb. A whisper like that is definitely not intended to be an insult. An insult would be "hey stupid, just use the unbraid character hair verb" said out loud so the whole room can hear.

Solomon's stated that they're considering putting up verb lists once they get all the other stuff done. There's several verb lists already available on websites (like Arcane Wolf). So there's not really a "Wow, I'm bigger and badder than you because I know more verbs!" sense in the realms. People just instruct others because they're trying to be nice, and it doesn't matter if they're higher circle or not.

A little suggestion for you (don't jump all over me for "helping" you uninvited, please)... the verb SMILE draws a lot less attention than the ACT verb and does almost the same thing, but without the ugly parentheses. You might get less unwanted whispers that way. Or you could use avoid !whisper.

-Laelia JS
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Re: Please keep your "help" to yourself. 04/11/2002 11:19 AM CDT
What Kyrrian and Laelia said.

If I ever whisper something to you or anyone else about a verb or any other game mechanic, it's simply because I would like to help. There's plenty out there in the game I still know little (or nothing) about and trying to show my "superiority" would be an exercise in hypocrisy. Anyone who says they know everything about this game is a fool or a liar unless they happen to be a Game Master.

And even they have admitted from time to time there are things about DR they don't know, at least without researching it first. Noone can be an expert on everything. Anyone who tells you different probably has some issues.

Some of us just remember the days when we were struggling to comprehend this game and kind people stepped in to help. Now we repay that favor when it looks like someone else may need it. Is it too much to ask for you to simply be gracious and say, "thanks, but I knew that"? If you're so experienced, I am sure you can put it on a hotkey macro if it happens so often you wouldn't want to type it.

<wanders off muttering something about gift horses and dentists>
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Re: Please keep your "help" to yourself. 04/11/2002 11:56 AM CDT
<<I have helped them out on numerous occasions, but they are easy to spot and such an action is done in kindness. But unless I ask for help, I don't want it!

Good lord, I agree with what the others said and more! When YOU stick your nose in other people's business it's done in kindness but someone helping you is trying to prove to the masses how long they've been playing? Totally ignoring the hypocrisy inherent in this, doesn't it strike you as mildly ironic that YOU are the one posting about how long you've been playing?

Gizella, hoping Aurora was just having a bad day and posted in haste
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Re: Please keep your "help" to yourself. 04/11/2002 01:00 PM CDT
<<< But unless I ask for help, I don't want it!

Hate to say it, but I'm with everyone else on this... If we transcribed your attitude on every newbie we saw, no one would ever help a newbie again. Can't address your RP, but your etiquette needs help. ;>

Pell.
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Re: Please keep your "help" to yourself. 04/14/2002 01:09 PM CDT
To go against the wind, I'll side with her. I have been playing DragonRealms for a long time, and I am only at my tenth circle. If someone is really a novice, and they see you use a cool verb, they'll go "how did you do that?" I know I used to always ask how to do that when I was a novice. To this day, it drives me nuts when people tell me to do this and "listen to my elders" even though my character is over thirty years old and they're sixteen! While I don't necessarily think we should hate everyone and never whisper OOC, I do agree that if your help is needed, it will be asked for.
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Re: Please keep your "help" to yourself. 04/14/2002 03:57 PM CDT
>>I do agree that if your help is needed, it will be asked for.<<

Not necessarily.

Some problems -- or, more to the point, some verbs -- can have responses that someone just doesn't know about, old and new alike. If I saw someone using the ACT command to replicate something an esoteric verb can do, I am going to assume ignorance over artistic expression.

If they are aware of the problem, then it really should be no problem to shut off whispers. Or simply state that yes, they are aware that they are doing it in a highly unorthedox way. This is perferable to assuming that the people trying to help them are doing so to target their insecurities. The last thing that should happen is punishing the polite OOC whisper for taking the time to correct a mistake.

This problem can also be a annoyance issue for the rest of the room. For example when a Moonie is trying to work Astrology on a cloudy day and doesn't realize that the OBSERVE verb has (or had, anyway) a kickback into the room. The options are letting him spam the holy heck out of the room, or whisper to him what is happening. Which way would you leap?

Larcus' Player
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Re: Please keep your "help" to yourself. 04/14/2002 05:14 PM CDT
>I am going to assume ignorance over artistic expression

That's rather ironic, considering your initial post was a lesson in the follies of assuming anything about anyone you don't know.

Think about it.
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Re: Please keep your "help" to yourself. 04/14/2002 07:21 PM CDT
Until such a time as I(Chris, player of Kilan) can tell how long You(Player of whoever) has been playing DragonRealms I will continue to use Kilan to whisper advice to You(The player) by means of your character.(Whether you're JoeNewbie or Veldehar[::drags Veld kicking and screaming into yet another post::])

If you(general) do something silly like 'whisper kilan OOC: I've been playing since day 1 so just back off with your superiority complex.'...you'll either get berrated by me or get ignored by me.

If you're(general) even more foolish and berrate Kilan for trying to help....you'll quickly wind up dead.("Sorry...can't help ya." Kilan smirks and wanders off)

-Chris, player of Mad Mage Kilan
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Re: Please keep your "help" to yourself. 04/15/2002 10:39 AM CDT
>>Think about it.<<

After thinking about it extensively for all of 20 seconds, I've decided that assumption has two different implications based on what's being assumed.

I suppose the dividing line is assumptions based on direct stimuli ("Ow! Hot stove burns, it will probably burn me if I touch it again.") and those based on imagination and gossip ("The new FillInTheBlank system is going to be the death of the Warpath Magearian guild!" "That guy just whispered help to me, he must think I'm an idiot!").

With this in mind, I recognize that I was in error. I have no real logical basis of assuming that, for example, the spammer and ACTer alike are not just deviants. I'll have to plead my ethics in giving the benefit of the doubt in hostile cases.

However, this is sliding somewhat close to a conflict and very far off topic. If you have a concern with something I wrote earlier or wish to continue debating this, my @play.net addy does route to real e-mail.

Larcus' Player
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Re: Please keep your "help" to yourself. 12/04/2002 07:19 PM CST
I just got to get in on this....I been around sense the good ole aol days, and let me tell you....i know exactly didley..after all these years...Im still asking how to do this and how to do that....and....for all you high and mighty "I been here since the aol days," the realms is not the same place...and it seems to change everyday...i cant keep up....if ye dont want people to help you...by god...dont speak...:)
Killer killa:)
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