Why are there so many useless skills? 09/04/2017 12:40 PM CDT
Like, what is the point of attunement? I don't use it for anything. I go from one room to another CONCENTRATING--and for what? It doesn't help me do anything. My Guildmistress won't even tell me why it's important or what I could use it for. It's just something to train in while I'm focusing on other stuff. PLAY, CONCENTRATE, APPRAISE. FORAGE, BRAID, CONCENTRATE, APPRAISE.

Tactics are another waste of time. If I have the luxury to analyze how to hurt an enemy instead of hitting them with everything I've got or running like hell, I probably don't need tactics to defeat it. So again, what is the point?

I don't know what appraisal is for, either. It's easy enough to do, but it isn't of any use. I thought initially that if I got halfway decent at it, shopkeepers would start paying me more, but this doesn't seem to be the case.

I can make the numbers go up, albeit with maddeningly tedious slowness. But I don't know why such useless skills are needed for advancement, especially since the NPCs do not tell you how to use them, and the HELP system doesn't help at all. (And Elanthipedia's usefulness varies--quite a few articles were written by people who know the uses of the skills so well that they don't bother to explain what verbs to use or what skills are for, and there are even more that are mere stubs, are incomplete, or are not in compliance with the latest version of the game.)

There's really nothing to tell a new player in-game how or why they need to learn any skill--especially tons of stuff that is dull and useless.
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Re: Why are there so many useless skills? 09/04/2017 02:13 PM CDT
You should read the wiki. Don't like them? Don't train them beyond any minimum requirements your guild may have.
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Re: Why are there so many useless skills? 09/04/2017 02:42 PM CDT

> Like, what is the point of attunement?

In short, it lets you cast bigger spells more often.

Try help magic-skills in the game.

> I don't know what appraisal is for, either.

You need it to accurately see the statistics on your weapons, armor, enemies, and values of your gem pouches.

Try help appraisal in the game.

> I can make the numbers go up, albeit with maddeningly tedious slowness.

Agreed. Maybe hollow's eve should have an item that insures all of your skills will stay at least 2/34 or even 1/34 while you're in the game. At least it would remove the tediousness of it all. Let you play the game without worrying about 24/7 training.

> There's really nothing to tell a new player in-game how or why they need to learn any skill--especially tons of stuff that is dull and useless.

Try typing help. It would be nice to if new players were told this verb existed though.
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Re: Why are there so many useless skills? 09/04/2017 04:39 PM CDT
I sympathize with the feeling that there are useless skills, and tedious skills. They certainly can seem that way, and some of them really are. However, I do want to gently point out to you that the skills you mentioned do more than you think they do, and that there are better and less tedious ways to train than you may realize.

As already mentioned, Attunement is about giving you access to more mana for your spells. Appraisal not only lets you see information about your weapons and items, but eventually unlocks the ability to focus on a skill so that its pool drains faster.

As far as the tedium, part of what you need to learn is to look around for better training methods. For example, Attunement can only be learned every 60 seconds when you're sitting and concentrating in the same room, and concentrating doesn't teach you that much. You might be better off trying to cast your spells with harnessed mana. Appraisal is slow going when you're just appraising any old item. Try a bundle, a gem pouch, or ASSESS your instrument while playing it.

Yes, lots of skills aren't particularly great, and lots advance slowly. DR is a game of juggling. It's about learning about the various skills and choosing which ones you can manage to train, and which aren't for you. Picking the best ones among those you have to train for your guild. Sometimes you just have to learn a bad one though, and then the game is about learning to do so in the best way.


- Navesi
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Re: Why are there so many useless skills? 09/04/2017 04:50 PM CDT
Drakonic--As already stated, I HAVE read the wiki. Elanthipedia is not as wholly informative as many people seem to believe.
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Re: Why are there so many useless skills? 09/04/2017 05:23 PM CDT
-->In short, it lets you cast bigger spells more often.

Thank you!

(I really think that when Guildmasters are saying, "You need to work on X", they should add an explanation. "You need to work on attunement so that you will be able to cast bigger spells more often.")

I've checked Help magic-skills in-game. Repeatedly. It says:

*

Magic is very verbose and because of this, there are multiple components. Each component is trained by using spells that are associated with the skill necessary to cast it. The different magic skills are Primary Magic, Augmentation, Debilitation, Utility, Warding, Attunement, and Sorcery.

Primary Magic is learned each time you utilize magic.
Augmentation is trained by using spells that provide buffs to skills or stats.
Example: Empathic spell Gift of Life.
Debilitation can be trained by utilizing spells that disable or debuff opponents.
Example: Clerical spell Huldah's Pall.
Utility covers beneficial spells not covered by Augmentation or Warding.
Example: Moon Mage spell Riftal Summons.
Warding spells are spells that provide defensive effects.
Example: Paladin spell Banner of Truce.
Sorcery is trained when casting spells outside of the Guild's native realm. This skill provides you with a skill benefit when casting these kinds of spells.
Example: A Moon Mage casting a Life spell such as Refresh.
Attunement is trained each time you HARNESS mana into a spell or you use your ability to PERCEIVE the mana in an area. These skills are important for general spell casting.

Best Practices for Learning Magic

Currently, the best way to learn the Magic skill associated with a spell is to put as much mana as you are able to channel into the spell. You can gauge how much mana you are able to cast at based on whether or not you backfire once you CAST the spell. Adding more mana to a spell can be done three ways:
You can prepare the spell at a higher mana: PREP (SPELL) 10
You can harness more mana for the spell: HARNESS 15
Or, you can utilize cambrinth by CHARGING the cambrinth item with mana, and then FOCUSING on it to form a link.

Additionally, you may find that some spells are more difficult than others. Casting spells that are more difficult for you will cause you to learn the best in comparison to the easier spell.

For information on Spell Stances, type HELP SPELL-STANCE

*

As you see, all it says is that attunement helps in general spellcasting. It doesn't say what the skill does.

-->You need it to accurately see the statistics on your weapons, armor, enemies, and values of your gem pouches.

See, I didn't know that it did any of the above. And Elanthipedia doesn't mention any of those abilities, either.

But--question. Let's assume that I can accurately see the stats on my weapons and armor. How does that help me? After all, I won't know the stats of better weapons or armor or where to get them.

-->Try help appraisal in the game.

What threw me about this one was that HELP APPRAISE doesn't exist, so it didn't occur to me that HELP APPRAISAL did.

-->Try typing help. It would be nice to if new players were told this verb existed though.

HELP is, like Elanthipedia, hit or miss in its usefulness. Sometimes topics come up under HELP (HELP X). Other times you have to type X HELP. Sometimes keywords work; other times they don't. You can look up HELP CATEGORIES, for example, but not HELP INDEX. And half the stuff in the HELP files just refers you to an Elanthipedia link, anyway.

I'm sorry. I realize that everything that I'm asking about is ultra-clear to everyone but me.
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Re: Why are there so many useless skills? 09/04/2017 05:37 PM CDT
-->As already mentioned, Attunement is about giving you access to more mana for your spells. Appraisal not only lets you see information about your weapons and items, but eventually unlocks the ability to focus on a skill so that its pool drains faster.

You mean APPRAISE FOCUS? Yeah, I heard about that. I also heard that it takes 200 ranks minimum to get it to work. That sounds impossible.

-->As far as the tedium, part of what you need to learn is to look around for better training methods. For example, Attunement can only be learned every 60 seconds when you're sitting and concentrating in the same room, and concentrating doesn't teach you that much. You might be better off trying to cast your spells with harnessed mana.

I dislike harnessing mana. It burns out my nervous system whenever I try it. This seems like a bad idea, especially since there aren't any herbalists in game who could sell me cures, so I tend to stick with CONCENTRATE.

-->Appraisal is slow going when you're just appraising any old item. Try a bundle, a gem pouch, or ASSESS your instrument while playing it

I'm already APPRAISING my instruments while playing. Is there anything else I can do? (I don't keep bundles around for long, and I don't own a gem pouch.)
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Re: Why are there so many useless skills? 09/04/2017 05:43 PM CDT


I got most of my appraisal ranks appraising creatures quick. I think you need a minimum rank amount (maybe 50?), but I usually do that while I'm aiming a bow and in dead time anyways.

Jalika
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Re: Why are there so many useless skills? 09/04/2017 06:54 PM CDT
>>You need it to accurately see the statistics on your weapons, armor, enemies, and values of your gem pouches.

>See, I didn't know that it did any of the above. And Elanthipedia doesn't mention any of those abilities, either.

The first bit of text on the page mentions exactly this, perhaps you might be skimming over important information when you read the wiki?

"Appraisal is a Lore skill with applications in a wide variety of systems. It can tell you the value, weight, and other qualities of items; the stats of your weapons and armor; the skills of your opponent; the mana capacity of cambrinth items; and more."
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Re: Why are there so many useless skills? 09/04/2017 08:10 PM CDT
>>I'm sorry. I realize that everything that I'm asking about is ultra-clear to everyone but me.

It's only clear to us because we've put a lot of time into the game. Anyone new is going to spend some time learning. :)

>>But--question. Let's assume that I can accurately see the stats on my weapons and armor. How does that help me?

It can help you compare your gear to other gear that you might want to buy. Trader shops and festival shops have items out on the tables, which means that you can appraise them before you buy. You'll also be able to use an item's appraisal to decide on whether to buy an item that focuses on one aspect over another. For example, you might want a staff with more focus on puncture, or one that's more impact-focused, or you might choose armor that focuses on physical protection over elemental.

>>You mean APPRAISE FOCUS? Yeah, I heard about that. I also heard that it takes 200 ranks minimum to get it to work. That sounds impossible.

I will admit that Appraisal is not the most useful of skills, but that ability is at least something to look forward to eventually. Once you find your stride, you may find it approaching faster than you think.

>>I dislike harnessing mana. It burns out my nervous system whenever I try it.

It's true that at low levels this could be a serious problem. You might try waiting until your spell is fully prepared, harnessing 1-2, then casting. That way you're only holding the mana for 2-3 seconds. The next best option would be to concentrate in different rooms, since each new room you go to resets the timer. Unless you're a moon mage, in which case I'll tell you about their special ways to learn.

>>This seems like a bad idea, especially since there aren't any herbalists in game who could sell me cures, so I tend to stick with CONCENTRATE.

I THINK that there are still some shops that sell potions/herbs that can cure nerves. I personally talk to a player alchemist who provides me with such potions.

>>I'm already APPRAISING my instruments while playing. Is there anything else I can do? (I don't keep bundles around for long, and I don't own a gem pouch.)

If you're a Bard, you should APPRAISE and ASSESS your instrument while playing. These are two different abilities, with different timers. I'd appraise every 60 seconds and assess every 15 seconds. If you're not a Bard, just ASSESS, as the appraisal won't teach you much. When you're in combat and between critters, appraise your bundle quick. Again, there's a timer there, I think around 60 seconds. You can also appraise the critter you're fighting, but I find this does not teach nearly as well. If you really want to work the skill and you can handle the challenge, you might build yourself a moderately large bundle or gem pouch full of gems to appraise when you're around town.

I forgot to respond last time to your comment on Tactics. It's also not the most useful of skills but it does have a few uses. First of all, there are several moves based on your Tactics skill that will give you various benefits. For example, BOB will help you recover fatigue, WEAVE will debuff your enemy a bit, and I believe CIRCLE helps you gain position. These can be nice to do while aiming a ranged weapon, for example, or if you find yourself in a bad position or very tired. Second, the combos are useful against very durable enemies whom you can hit but are slow to take down, e.g. invasion bosses or a few of the tougher regular critters. Completing the combos will debuff the enemy in various ways.

- Navesi
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Re: Why are there so many useless skills? 09/04/2017 10:56 PM CDT


> As you see, all it says is that attunement helps in general spellcasting. It doesn't say what the skill does.

At a quick glance, that's exactly what the skill does. It helps you cast spells. It's completely passive.

> Let's assume that I can accurately see the stats on my weapons and armor. How does that help me? After all, I won't know the stats of better weapons or armor or where to get them.

If you're a trader, it lets you sell gem pouches and bundles for more money. For everyone else, there's really not a point in continuing to train it other than TDPs. That's more end game though, and it's not tied to any specific skill.

> What threw me about this one was that HELP APPRAISE doesn't exist

In general, you'll probably have more luck with help <skillname>, but I can see where you're coming from. That would be a nice change.

> HELP is, like Elanthipedia, hit or miss in its usefulness.

I absolutely agree, but it seems like it would have helped you in this case.

> I'm sorry. I realize that everything that I'm asking about is ultra-clear to everyone but me.

No reason to apologize. This game has a steep learning curve.
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