Would it be possible to have Aesthene's Close made into a lawless and unsafe area? I mean, the sewers are lawless and unsafe. Aesthene's Close is even more derelict and abandoned than the sewers are. I was recently surprised to be caught doing some mildly sketchy things down there. The place is so abandoned that I didn't even think to use the justice command beforehand. It's not like it's the city streets down there, you know?
STELLARMAGUS
DARKEVILWHATEVER
Re: Aesthene's Close Justice
06/23/2014 08:55 AM CDT
can we make all areas lawless and stealable?
safe areas are completely stupid
safe areas are completely stupid
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Aesthene's Close Justice
06/23/2014 09:03 AM CDT
>>can we make all areas lawless and stealable?
>>safe areas are completely stupid
I'm all for the removal of anti-steal areas if those areas instead produce extremely severe punishments for anyone caught stealing.
Caught stealing at a festival = banned from the festival. Womp womp.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
>>safe areas are completely stupid
I'm all for the removal of anti-steal areas if those areas instead produce extremely severe punishments for anyone caught stealing.
Caught stealing at a festival = banned from the festival. Womp womp.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
DARKEVILWHATEVER
STELLARMAGUS
Re: Aesthene's Close Justice
06/23/2014 04:41 PM CDT
<I'm all for the removal of anti-steal areas if those areas instead produce extremely severe punishments for anyone caught stealing.
<Caught stealing at a festival = banned from the festival. Womp womp.
This is always the better solution than disabling mechanics entirely, imo. Don't want people doing something, just increase the consequences. "You can't steal here. Why? Because that's not a good idea or you're being watched too closely, so you can't even try no matter how stupid you are" sucks and is immersion breaking.
Aesthene's Close, though ... why is it a justice area?
<Caught stealing at a festival = banned from the festival. Womp womp.
This is always the better solution than disabling mechanics entirely, imo. Don't want people doing something, just increase the consequences. "You can't steal here. Why? Because that's not a good idea or you're being watched too closely, so you can't even try no matter how stupid you are" sucks and is immersion breaking.
Aesthene's Close, though ... why is it a justice area?
KROONERMANREVENGE
Re: Aesthene's Close Justice
06/23/2014 04:43 PM CDT
>Aesthene's Close, though ... why is it a justice area?
If I had to guess, I'd guess it's something to do with how remote it is, and some sort of oversight. It's logistically in crossings, and given how badly the zones are created/set in DR, it's not that surprising.
I'm a badger, I be badgerin'
If I had to guess, I'd guess it's something to do with how remote it is, and some sort of oversight. It's logistically in crossings, and given how badly the zones are created/set in DR, it's not that surprising.
I'm a badger, I be badgerin'
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Aesthene's Close Justice
06/23/2014 05:10 PM CDT
>>This is always the better solution than disabling mechanics entirely, imo
Read a few of the threads about how GMs are too heavy handed with justice mechanics and you'll see it's a pretty terrible idea just in terms of how many headaches it causes everywhere.
>>"You can't steal here. Why? Because that's not a good idea or you're being watched too closely, so you can't even try no matter how stupid you are" sucks and is immersion breaking.
IMO, part of roleplay is having to roll with the punches when dealing with mechanical/system limitations. If you can't steal in a certain spot because of mechanics, make an excuse why.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
Read a few of the threads about how GMs are too heavy handed with justice mechanics and you'll see it's a pretty terrible idea just in terms of how many headaches it causes everywhere.
>>"You can't steal here. Why? Because that's not a good idea or you're being watched too closely, so you can't even try no matter how stupid you are" sucks and is immersion breaking.
IMO, part of roleplay is having to roll with the punches when dealing with mechanical/system limitations. If you can't steal in a certain spot because of mechanics, make an excuse why.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
DARKEVILWHATEVER
Re: Aesthene's Close Justice
06/24/2014 07:43 AM CDT
OMG THERE IS A BANK WTH
Why have no steals been enthusiastically embraced and expanded over the years? Fear of thievery is good for immersion. Is this about people whining and reporting because they got stolen from?
Don't go OOC braiding grass while listening to a lesson at the WM guild with 3 plat in your pocket?
...
Why have no steals been enthusiastically embraced and expanded over the years? Fear of thievery is good for immersion. Is this about people whining and reporting because they got stolen from?
Don't go OOC braiding grass while listening to a lesson at the WM guild with 3 plat in your pocket?
...
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Aesthene's Close Justice
06/24/2014 09:00 AM CDT
>>Why have no steals been enthusiastically embraced and expanded over the years? Fear of thievery is good for immersion. Is this about people whining and reporting because they got stolen from?
They're not embraced as much as accepted, because justice is generally seen as either toothless or extremely excessive, and it's easier to just not allow the situation to happen in certain contexts to begin with. If stealing is allowed, then combat needs to be allowed, then magic needs to be allowed, then everything collapses because people are scripting magic, having PvP fights in the middle of the festival, etc. It seems like a lot of cost for very little return for a very small amount of the population that kinda just wants to rob other players because "immersion."
Justice at a festival might involve being banned from the festival (and maybe future festivals at that location!). And then people would complain endlessly over that for being too heavy handed, and how being so severely punished ruins their enjoyment of the game.
In the end, it's easy enough to argue that the justice system's rotating door policy, where criminals are constantly released from jail, never truly exiled (even with GM tools), never have their assets seized, and always given back their weapons is just as damaging to "immersion" as not allowing some guy to rob someone else in a festival store.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
They're not embraced as much as accepted, because justice is generally seen as either toothless or extremely excessive, and it's easier to just not allow the situation to happen in certain contexts to begin with. If stealing is allowed, then combat needs to be allowed, then magic needs to be allowed, then everything collapses because people are scripting magic, having PvP fights in the middle of the festival, etc. It seems like a lot of cost for very little return for a very small amount of the population that kinda just wants to rob other players because "immersion."
Justice at a festival might involve being banned from the festival (and maybe future festivals at that location!). And then people would complain endlessly over that for being too heavy handed, and how being so severely punished ruins their enjoyment of the game.
In the end, it's easy enough to argue that the justice system's rotating door policy, where criminals are constantly released from jail, never truly exiled (even with GM tools), never have their assets seized, and always given back their weapons is just as damaging to "immersion" as not allowing some guy to rob someone else in a festival store.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
DARKEVILWHATEVER
Re: Aesthene's Close Justice
06/24/2014 09:23 AM CDT
I'm fine with fests being a special case (with stealing) - although I see nothing at all out of the ordinary if people want to PvP, use magic, whatever, in fests. I think it would make for a more 'festive' atmosphere. And because the freedom to just let stuff happen is muted, fests are about running around and reading catalogs. Imagine reading catalogs and having to traverse scroll from people fighting, casting, talking, etc.
I think when tests arrive people should want to practically move in! The cemetery people (as if) would move all the action to a good mana room there. Everyone teaching or popping boxes would camp somewhere at the fest. But that's the last idea anyone would have.
>If stealing is allowed, then combat needs to be allowed, then magic needs to be allowed, then everything collapses because people are scripting magic, having PvP fights in the middle of the festival, etc.
Why is 'order' the most powerful incentive? When did order become so important? When we used to RP in AOL's Red Dragon Inn there were NO mechanics - just chat. There was no order, and everyone has the best memories about them. When we mute game elements this way, it undermines the reason they are in the game - to entertain.
>It seems like a lot of cost for very little return for a very small amount of the population that kinda just wants to rob other players because "immersion."
TELL THEM TO PUT THEIR COINS IN THE BANK THIEVES ARE NOT MEANIES PUT $ IN BANK PUT $ IN BANK PUT $ IN BANK CLOSE POUCHES CLOSE POUCHES CLOSE POUCHES
If ANYONE that just read that is stupid enough to carry coins or forget to close their gem pouch after THAT - they deserve what they get. After all, elanthia has lawless people lurking amid the population - thank GOD management protects the meek (who don't want to be bothered to bank their coin or close their pouches).
I think when tests arrive people should want to practically move in! The cemetery people (as if) would move all the action to a good mana room there. Everyone teaching or popping boxes would camp somewhere at the fest. But that's the last idea anyone would have.
>If stealing is allowed, then combat needs to be allowed, then magic needs to be allowed, then everything collapses because people are scripting magic, having PvP fights in the middle of the festival, etc.
Why is 'order' the most powerful incentive? When did order become so important? When we used to RP in AOL's Red Dragon Inn there were NO mechanics - just chat. There was no order, and everyone has the best memories about them. When we mute game elements this way, it undermines the reason they are in the game - to entertain.
>It seems like a lot of cost for very little return for a very small amount of the population that kinda just wants to rob other players because "immersion."
TELL THEM TO PUT THEIR COINS IN THE BANK THIEVES ARE NOT MEANIES PUT $ IN BANK PUT $ IN BANK PUT $ IN BANK CLOSE POUCHES CLOSE POUCHES CLOSE POUCHES
If ANYONE that just read that is stupid enough to carry coins or forget to close their gem pouch after THAT - they deserve what they get. After all, elanthia has lawless people lurking amid the population - thank GOD management protects the meek (who don't want to be bothered to bank their coin or close their pouches).
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Aesthene's Close Justice
06/24/2014 09:38 AM CDT
>>When we used to RP in AOL's Red Dragon Inn there were NO mechanics - just chat. There was no order, and everyone has the best memories about them. When we mute game elements this way, it undermines the reason they are in the game - to entertain.
...you just presented an argument showing no need for actual stealing mechanics to roleplay being a thief at a festival, because some of your "best memories" in roleplay were done without any kind of mechanics tied to them (like stealing). So if you can RP just fine without mechanics at all, you'd be fine RPing with mechanics restricted.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
...you just presented an argument showing no need for actual stealing mechanics to roleplay being a thief at a festival, because some of your "best memories" in roleplay were done without any kind of mechanics tied to them (like stealing). So if you can RP just fine without mechanics at all, you'd be fine RPing with mechanics restricted.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
DARKEVILWHATEVER
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Aesthene's Close Justice
06/24/2014 09:45 AM CDT
>>REALLY?
Yep, really.
Similar to your best memories of RPing without any real mechanics tied to it, go forth and prosper by RPing picking pockets of the saddest hobo to the richest prince. You don't even need another player in the room!
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
Yep, really.
Similar to your best memories of RPing without any real mechanics tied to it, go forth and prosper by RPing picking pockets of the saddest hobo to the richest prince. You don't even need another player in the room!
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
DARKEVILWHATEVER
Re: Aesthene's Close Justice
06/24/2014 09:51 AM CDT
STELLARMAGUS
Re: Aesthene's Close Justice
06/24/2014 05:49 PM CDT
<AOL's Red Dragon Inn
LOL I had forgotten all about that.
Also, I pretty much agree with DarkEvilWhatever, though perhaps not for the same reasons. Mechanics are there for a reason. If they aren't getting the job done, then they should be adjusted. The purpose of the justice system is to regulate exactly the sort of thing we're talking about. It's failing. Fixing it should be, in my opinion, a very high priority. Maybe not as high as some things, but certainly towards the top of the list.
LOL I had forgotten all about that.
Also, I pretty much agree with DarkEvilWhatever, though perhaps not for the same reasons. Mechanics are there for a reason. If they aren't getting the job done, then they should be adjusted. The purpose of the justice system is to regulate exactly the sort of thing we're talking about. It's failing. Fixing it should be, in my opinion, a very high priority. Maybe not as high as some things, but certainly towards the top of the list.
CARDINALE01
Re: Aesthene's Close Justice
06/25/2014 04:01 AM CDT
The Justice System being screwed up is like the 37th thing wrong with player stealing.
DR-ANNWYL
Re: Aesthene's Close Justice ::NUDGE::
06/25/2014 05:41 AM CDT
You guys are wandering off topic to discussion on Justice in general.
Discussion on Justice should go here: Surviving in DragonRealms - Elanthia> The Justice System
Thanks!
Annwyl
Message Board Supervisor
If you've questions or comments, take it to e-mail by writing me at DR-Annwyl@play.net.
DARKEVILWHATEVER
Re: Aesthene's Close Justice ::NUDGE::
06/25/2014 07:21 PM CDT
I just thought of a draft solution that works as far as I can tell - and this goes for Aesthene's Close as well. I can't imagine this would be a gigantic project either. Just takes a willingness to make a game adjustment in environment/messaging, as opposed to the heaps of really consequential technical adjustments that GMs have been working on for months. If they ever had time to get to this would be nice.
I really, really feel strongly that every single room in the entire game (except rooms where we're alone - vault) should allow stealing so I suggest the following: review every single no-steal area, determine why the room was no-stealed in the first place, then implement a 2-step messaging process when someone attempts to steal.
For example...
Ratha Bank, Atrium
You are standing in a room that has seen all manner of bizarre players and occurrences. It is, however, widely acknowledged as the ideal place to expel offspring.
Also here: Proctolocus, Kateeeey, El'Hefe
>steal kateeeey
REALLY? Good luck with that. There are more guards in here than Hitler's bunker! (STEAL again if you wish to continue)
>steal kateeeey
You are immediately hauled off to prison - not jail - prison. With your cavity search wrapped up, you are escorted to your cell. Ready to do some time? Well, how about 1 RL day? Stealing in the bank? You're pretty smart.
>glower
There should also be a chance of succeeding - but only for the toppest skilled PCs.
imo it DOES make a significant difference in game feel. I think that's the way it should be.
I really, really feel strongly that every single room in the entire game (except rooms where we're alone - vault) should allow stealing so I suggest the following: review every single no-steal area, determine why the room was no-stealed in the first place, then implement a 2-step messaging process when someone attempts to steal.
For example...
Ratha Bank, Atrium
You are standing in a room that has seen all manner of bizarre players and occurrences. It is, however, widely acknowledged as the ideal place to expel offspring.
Also here: Proctolocus, Kateeeey, El'Hefe
>steal kateeeey
REALLY? Good luck with that. There are more guards in here than Hitler's bunker! (STEAL again if you wish to continue)
>steal kateeeey
You are immediately hauled off to prison - not jail - prison. With your cavity search wrapped up, you are escorted to your cell. Ready to do some time? Well, how about 1 RL day? Stealing in the bank? You're pretty smart.
>glower
There should also be a chance of succeeding - but only for the toppest skilled PCs.
imo it DOES make a significant difference in game feel. I think that's the way it should be.
