Any chance you could stop letting critters in the room where you get off the ropes or take away the end RT or some how make it a little safer to travel that way? I've died several times while still in round time from climbing, it just seems off since I can't really do anything to save myself.

I'd rather not rely on other people to go out of their way to protect me, but that's just me.
I don't mind it being somewhat unsafe, I do understand that that's kind of the point. But being stuck in a round time that's long enough for something(s) to advance to melee and get several hits off on you before you can move at all is a little extreme I think.

Unsafe is fine. The long frontloaded RT used to make it unsafe is dumb/lazy.

At this point it's not likely to change, though - it's probably too low a priority to bother with and/or someone along the way decided that dumb is fine. Either way it's been brought up before without success.

---

Tishra says, "We had a tie, get over it."

The hammer lands an overwhelming strike that knocks the larynx clear back to the vertebrae (So much for last words!).
* Tishra is slain before your eyes!

There are a couple ways to circumvent the rope bridge. As someone already posted you can also ask for someone to protect you or banner the room if you must use it.

If you don't want other people to help you, don't go or just depart and end up in the chapel.

The rope bridge needs updating whether or not they make this particular change(which I'm for). 30+ second RT no matter your climbing skill is silly.

>The rope bridge needs updating whether or not they make this particular change(which I'm for). 30+ second RT no matter your climbing skill is silly.

Agreed.

Also, if the intention is to make you vulnerable during the last part of the climb, it makes no sense to message that you've reached the end of the rope and then force you to stand there for 30 seconds. There's a real disconnect between the action and the roundtime. If it messaged that you were on the final part of the rope climb and it was low enough that creatures could attack you, I'd buy that. The way it is makes zero sense, however.

<<But being stuck in a round time that's long enough for something(s) to advance to melee and get several hits off on you before you can move at all is a little extreme I think.

That's just it, the intended bar for safe use of the ropes is being skilled enough to survive those attacks. The bar is meant to be high.

---

You suddenly feel nauseous, as if you'd been doing performance art.

<<Why is the bar for a climbing obstacle set for combat skills though. It makes no sense.

The bar for climbing the obstacle isn't. The bar for safe entrance into the area by means of the rope bridge is. It takes less skill to exit the area than to enter it. Crossing the ropes to the Therenbrough side is quite safe, after all.

The same is true of the river route from Rossman's to Riverhaven. Swimming downstream out of the Rossmans area can be done with minimal skill, but swimming upstream into the Rossmans area is much more difficult.

It's meant to be easier to exit the area than to enter it.

---

You suddenly feel nauseous, as if you'd been doing performance art.

Let me clarify my position. I'm not saying the area should be difficult to get into but if it is then it makes more sense to have a skill check on the rope and possible falling off than to have a 30 second RT at the end. There's no reason that my non combat moon mage with 400 ranks in climbing should get killed going to rossmans from Theren.

>>According to whom? The prerogative of defining the criteria for entrance to or survival in the area is neither yours nor mine. That you or anyone else may not like "the area is meant to be a dangerous place where one must be combat capable to survive" as a reason doesn't make it an invalid one.

According to the normal mechanics of the game. Name me one other place where a survival obstacle puts you in a dangerous place with a long RT at the end and makes you rely on combat skills. Not even the 80+ second RT going to Ker'lor does that. The rope bridge is the exception to the rule and should change.

In addition there's no such thing as a combat check to move rooms anywhere else in the game. Even in Malsheve's Fortress (which I mention later) stepping into the circles to move forward I have a chance to move if I'm in danger.

>>In this case, the reason your non-combat moon mage might get killed attempting to pass through a combat oriented obstacle is that he's a non-combat moon mage attempting to pass through a combat oriented obstacle.

But it shouldn't be a combat obstacle. I'm not sure why you're having such a hard time understanding this. I'm off the rope bridge, the climb is done. I should be able to move. I'll say it again, if there needs to be checks on the bridge they should make sense and it should be a climbing check with a chance of falling. Having a 30 second RT when the climb is finished makes absolutely no sense, not being able to move and be advanced upon with 400 climbing is silly. If you want a combat check then you should be asking that we be attacked on the bridge. Otherwise it's a survival obstacle and should be treated as such with only survival checks.

Take a look at the other rope bridge in the game, in Malshevye's Fortress. It makes much more sense for that bridge to be difficult than a path to a town in the province of Therengia yet both ends of it are safe rooms. Instead they put in a chance of falling. This makes much more sense for the rope bridge to Rossmans than the current mechanics.

>>Why not? Are combat obstacles not a valid game design choice?

You still haven't named me a single combat obstacle.

>>So would you be happier if instead of a climbing RT the bridge placed you in a tangled thicket that required a 30 second RT to move out of, during which time you could be attacked? Would this distinction without a difference be a difference in your mind?

What?

>>Maybe being attacked in RT means that you were attacked while trying to get off the ropes and you weren't, in fact, done yet.

If i'm not off the ropes yet then I should still be on the ropes, not in bandits.

>>The chance of being ambushed is clearly meant to be part of the risk. Otherwise, they could have made the bridge room a safe room where the critters could neither enter or spawn. Why is that so hard to understand?

If this is really the case, why are there no creatures on the otherside. You're arguments of it's supposed to be harder to get in than get out make no sense. The RT is the same for the rope bridge no matter which direction you go. It just happens that the south(west?) end is in a hunting ground. For the Jantspyre the river flows west. Of course it doesn't take that much swimming to float down river.

This is one of the older areas of the game where design decisions and an overall sense of game balance and cohesion for mechanics and checks weren't really all that well formed. I think it's much more likely that it just wasn't looked at.

I'd like to note too that I wouldn't have nearly as much problem with there being critters on the end if I didn't get the same RT at 400 ranks in climbing as at 10.

>>Would you feel satisfied if the RT was 60 seconds at 100 ranks scaling down to 30 at 400 ranks?

I can't tell if you're seriously asking or just trolling. 30+ seconds is already ridiculously long. The rope bridge in the Fortress is only 15. Why would they increase it?

>>>>The vibe I'm getting from you is that any arrangement where you are stuck for 30 seconds is going to be unacceptable, regardless of how the wait is finally justified. Is that pretty accurate?

Getting stuck for 30 seconds with that much climbing yes. It should scale down from 30. I'm pretty unhappy that it takes 2 minutes going from Rossmans to Theren too even though there's no danger that way.

I'd also like to point out that Rangers can completely bypass the rope bridge with around 150 or less scouting which is far less than the combats required to fight bandits or warcats so a combat check can't be that big of an issue.

>>The rope bridge is one such. Just because it's unique doesn't mean its not valid.

But it's a survival obstacle that you CLIMB across and there's no "combat check" on the other side. It doesn't make any sense

>>Also, there's the mud in apes.

Which does nothing for your case. First it's not on any main path anywhere, secondly it's a contest against your escaping skill and with enough is negligible. Certainly not 30 seconds.

Obviously you guys aren't going to listen to reason and have no interest in making the game more balanced so I'm done with this one.

>>Most of what I got from this thread is that you have a MM with 400 climbing but no combats and are annoyed that it gets owned by orcs sometimes.

I'm annoyed with unreasonable RTs and nonsensical messaging and climbing checks. I can ways to Riverhaven and go up that way in the same amount of time. That's not the point. The point is making the game balanced and making a climbing obstacle actually contest climbing and not have to come up with nonsensical justifications for it being the way it is like "combat checks". It annoys me just as much when I have to take my barbarian across the ropes and he can kill bandits with a flick of his finger.

>>Why not take a chartered boat or train your combats up to 200?

Why not make a climbing obstacle actually contest climbing?

P.S. I know I said I was done but I felt this needed explaining since Mazrian seems to have the wrong idea about what I'm complaining about. Yes my MM gets slaughtered sometimes and is annoying but could be completely avoided if the rope bridge was updated to actually have some skill checks. That is my point.

I agree 100% that climbing, swimming, escaping, etc. should factor into reduced RT or a reduction of 'risks'. I think the danger aspect of bypassing public transport should never completely go away, but for example:

>I think the climb from Shard to Leth bypassing the gondola is in a combat area, with a 1 minute stun + head fracture.

To correct this and add on, the combat area is just to get to the gap in undergondola, and there is a reasonable climb check to reach it too, but this is the 1-way method going from Ilithi to Leth. When you hit the Leth side, it is critter free unless you have the bad luck of a Trader caravan rolling you down while you're prone on the ground. The problem is, no matter how much climbing, agility or blind luck you have, you can never avoid that last root (which you know is there because you trip over it every time) so you will always get a hefty stun and the head bleeder.

In the ideal world, at some point a character should be able to have enough agility to catch themselves, or enough intel to remember the root was there, enough climbing to go around the root, etc. I don't think travel by-passes like these should become just another 'move to next room' path, but in this case at least, there is also a fairly long "and you're walking, and you're walking, and you're still walking" script you go through before you even get to be pwned by the root.

Anyhow, I would definately prefer travel by-passes that have annoying risks rather than not have them at all! But at the end of the day, I do prefer skill-check obstacles like the 2-way undergondola by-pass (can't climb it, take the gondola) or the Segoltha River (can't swim it, take the ferry).

Kythryn

What happened to this thread?

Maz, it isn't really a personal issue, don't make it one. It makes no sense that you get messaging saying your climb is complete, followed by 30 seconds of RT.

Separately, this is one of just a couple climbs in game that completely ignore your skill. Obviously this isn't desirable.

Making it personal is just dumb.

This does remind of the path around Shard, connecting the areas outside the east and south gate. You get 15 seconds of Roundtime in a hunting area on either side of that, and the skill check there is "Can you walk down a long path?"

So there's a similar-ish example, for what it's worth. It's a lot easier to avoid using though. Sometimes.

~ Kougen

You point at Sahfra, ruining her hiding place.
Roundtime: 1 sec.

Long RTs for moving from one room to another is dumb. Something at the destination should not be able to engage or otherwise affect you before you even arrive. As obnoxious as the road to Ker'Leor is, the mechanics used are a far better and less lazy solution.

It's not a big deal for a few seconds, or even ten. Fifteen is pushing it. Thirty is just sad.

---

Tishra says, "We had a tie, get over it."

The hammer lands an overwhelming strike that knocks the larynx clear back to the vertebrae (So much for last words!).
* Tishra is slain before your eyes!

>>Most of what I got from this thread is that you have a MM with 400 climbing but no combats and are annoyed that it gets owned by orcs sometimes.

>>Why not take a chartered boat or train your combats up to 200?

I have 400+ evasion and 267 climbing and his point is the correct one in this thread.