In no way is this intended to be a conflict post. My character said something, she got kicked out of an order house not a big deal. It'll probably happen again.
I would warn the order members to use this...sparingly? I realize that everyone worries about their event getting derailed and that's an easy remedy for it. It generally only lets people that RP the same views as your order stick around though and while someone who's obviously being disruptive is one thing, a differing opinion is another. (A differing opinion wasn't the result of my character's rejection...just talking in general terms)
But when it gets to the point that no one is talking because anything but "I SO AGREE!" will get them booted, the RP gets pretty two dimensional. Just a friendly warning, no angst intended.
People will find you just as tedious and boring to talk to at 1000 ranks as they did at 100.
AIM2
ROBERTDH
Re: Order house removal
04/05/2014 07:58 PM CDT
>But when it gets to the point that no one is talking because anything but "I SO AGREE!" will get them booted, the RP gets pretty two dimensional. Just a friendly warning, no angst intended.
This is Dragonrealms. Anything but "I SO AGREE!" are fighting words. I stopped opening my mouth at events Yeaars ago.
>Forgive my snark, but welcome to the life of a warrior mage.
This is Dragonrealms. Anything but "I SO AGREE!" are fighting words. I stopped opening my mouth at events Yeaars ago.
>Forgive my snark, but welcome to the life of a warrior mage.
KROONERMANREVENGE
Re: Order house removal
04/05/2014 09:44 PM CDT
>This is Dragonrealms. Anything but "I SO AGREE!" are fighting words. I stopped opening my mouth at events Yeaars ago.
People who RP desperately want to have more RP, more interaction, etc. so I think events tend to get artificially manic.
And even then, 'I SO AGREE' would probably irritate someone so they'd assault you for that.
I'm a badger, I be badgerin'
People who RP desperately want to have more RP, more interaction, etc. so I think events tend to get artificially manic.
And even then, 'I SO AGREE' would probably irritate someone so they'd assault you for that.
I'm a badger, I be badgerin'
SEBESTYEN64
Re: Order house removal
04/06/2014 03:35 PM CDT
<<I would warn the order members to use this...sparingly?
Really? What happens if we don't? If you were a GM your warning would have a little more weight. I have no idea what happened in your particular instance, but as a guest at someones house, it is best to not offend the host. Impotent warnings are not all that helpful. If you wanted to point out that we need to be responsible about it, well, that is a given as enforced by the Order GM. We cannot remove people willy nilly without ramifications.
That aside, it is a mechanic that has been buggy and not worked well for us in the past. Things seem to be fixed now, and I have only removed folks a few times before they even began to get disruptive (known criminals that do nothing but stir up trouble). Verbal sparring and debate is can be good RP and good fun depending on the event. Disruptions are just that, and need to be avoided. A contrary opinion is not an auto-removal in my book. Disruptive or offensive arguments and actions will get one removed.
Now, to those of you that I will remove, if you still want a fight.. just wait outside the house (ODS for those that do not know what Order my character is in) until after the event and I will get right to you.
~~~
True heroism is remarkably sober, very undramatic. It is not the urge to surpass all others at whatever cost, but the urge to serve others at whatever cost.
Really? What happens if we don't? If you were a GM your warning would have a little more weight. I have no idea what happened in your particular instance, but as a guest at someones house, it is best to not offend the host. Impotent warnings are not all that helpful. If you wanted to point out that we need to be responsible about it, well, that is a given as enforced by the Order GM. We cannot remove people willy nilly without ramifications.
That aside, it is a mechanic that has been buggy and not worked well for us in the past. Things seem to be fixed now, and I have only removed folks a few times before they even began to get disruptive (known criminals that do nothing but stir up trouble). Verbal sparring and debate is can be good RP and good fun depending on the event. Disruptions are just that, and need to be avoided. A contrary opinion is not an auto-removal in my book. Disruptive or offensive arguments and actions will get one removed.
Now, to those of you that I will remove, if you still want a fight.. just wait outside the house (ODS for those that do not know what Order my character is in) until after the event and I will get right to you.
~~~
True heroism is remarkably sober, very undramatic. It is not the urge to surpass all others at whatever cost, but the urge to serve others at whatever cost.
KROONERMANREVENGE
Re: Order house removal
04/06/2014 05:08 PM CDT
>Really? What happens if we don't? If you were a GM your warning would have a little more weight. I have no idea what happened in your particular instance, but as a guest at someones house, it is best to not offend the host. Impotent warnings are not all that helpful. If you wanted to point out that we need to be responsible about it, well, that is a given as enforced by the Order GM. We cannot remove people willy nilly without ramifications.
Since his entire post was 'hey, I deserved this and understand why it happened' I chose to read the 'warning' as 'hey, guys, here's a heads up on why you might not want to use this a lot'.
But let me tell you, flying off the handle sure does wonders for the overall impression of the orders and provinces you are associated with AND totally doesn't uphold stereotypes about them!
I'm a badger, I be badgerin'
Since his entire post was 'hey, I deserved this and understand why it happened' I chose to read the 'warning' as 'hey, guys, here's a heads up on why you might not want to use this a lot'.
But let me tell you, flying off the handle sure does wonders for the overall impression of the orders and provinces you are associated with AND totally doesn't uphold stereotypes about them!
I'm a badger, I be badgerin'
DR-ANNWYL
Re: Order house removal ::NUDGE::
04/06/2014 07:31 PM CDT
The bickering goes elsewhere.
Annwyl
Message Board Supervisor
If you've questions or comments, take it to e-mail by writing me at DR-Annwyl@play.net.
SEBESTYEN64
Re: Order house removal ::NUDGE::
04/06/2014 08:20 PM CDT
You read a lot into that if you think I was flying off the handle. My point was that Order members are quite aware of what happens if we abuse that mechanic.
~~~
True heroism is remarkably sober, very undramatic. It is not the urge to surpass all others at whatever cost, but the urge to serve others at whatever cost.
~~~
True heroism is remarkably sober, very undramatic. It is not the urge to surpass all others at whatever cost, but the urge to serve others at whatever cost.
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Order house removal ::NUDGE::
04/06/2014 08:51 PM CDT
>>My point was that Order members are quite aware of what happens if we abuse that mechanic.
I don't think the OP was saying the mechanic was being abused. I think the OP was just saying that if you boot people despite it being within the metrics of policy, it can discourage RP that goes beyond people agreeing on everything.
I'm not saying that's a good thing or a bad thing. Just saying that I don't think anyone was saying any policies were broken.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
I don't think the OP was saying the mechanic was being abused. I think the OP was just saying that if you boot people despite it being within the metrics of policy, it can discourage RP that goes beyond people agreeing on everything.
I'm not saying that's a good thing or a bad thing. Just saying that I don't think anyone was saying any policies were broken.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
AIM2
Re: Order house removal ::NUDGE::
04/07/2014 12:50 PM CDT
It just seemed to me that it's a knee-jerk reaction now. Whether my toon deserved it or not it actually resulted in some nifty side-rp but the underlying concern is that order members are shooting themselves in the foot by being a bit heavy handed in it's use.
My character asked a question, being somewhat overly polite, it was misconstrued, she explained and the knee-jerk was to boot her on out. She'd fought next to many of them not a month before against the Arkarms and it didn't seem to warrant any sort of consideration, benefit of the doubt or tolerance. Again, this isn't to illustrate it was unfair or fair just that it was like "BAM!" found a reason to boot.
Be unfair...be intollerant. It's a neat way to RP but unless I want to pvp I don't see myself sitting down for half an hour for a lecture only to get booted out the first time I open my mouth for something that even misconstrued was very mildly offensive.
You can get the same eight people to come on in for every event but it seems like that would be bland after a while. The mechanic is good, keeps out the disruptive riff-raff but limiting RP to either "Agree with us" or "We can kill each other later" is silly. Even the baron, who is known to NOT put up with much, will still only use that escort thing in very obvious circumstances.
Someone stealing in his presence, being obviously disruptive etc.
I guess my FRIENDLY warning is that the difference between being disruptive and being engaging is a thick line that seems to have been blurred with the (imo) over-zealous use of the mechanic. RP isn't about collecting a group of people that agree with you all the time...and to me, events are 100% RP, even the spar nights.
People will find you just as tedious and boring to talk to at 1000 ranks as they did at 100.
My character asked a question, being somewhat overly polite, it was misconstrued, she explained and the knee-jerk was to boot her on out. She'd fought next to many of them not a month before against the Arkarms and it didn't seem to warrant any sort of consideration, benefit of the doubt or tolerance. Again, this isn't to illustrate it was unfair or fair just that it was like "BAM!" found a reason to boot.
Be unfair...be intollerant. It's a neat way to RP but unless I want to pvp I don't see myself sitting down for half an hour for a lecture only to get booted out the first time I open my mouth for something that even misconstrued was very mildly offensive.
You can get the same eight people to come on in for every event but it seems like that would be bland after a while. The mechanic is good, keeps out the disruptive riff-raff but limiting RP to either "Agree with us" or "We can kill each other later" is silly. Even the baron, who is known to NOT put up with much, will still only use that escort thing in very obvious circumstances.
Someone stealing in his presence, being obviously disruptive etc.
I guess my FRIENDLY warning is that the difference between being disruptive and being engaging is a thick line that seems to have been blurred with the (imo) over-zealous use of the mechanic. RP isn't about collecting a group of people that agree with you all the time...and to me, events are 100% RP, even the spar nights.
People will find you just as tedious and boring to talk to at 1000 ranks as they did at 100.
ROBERTDH
Re: Order house removal ::NUDGE::
04/07/2014 04:06 PM CDT
To an extent I can sympathize. Running an event, even just a meeting, is a lot of work and planning something that gets thrown off by one person means all that energy goes up in smoke and putting out the acompanying fire is usually the kind of thing an event-organizing personality would rather eat soap than play through. Why bother?
On the other hand, its felt just as disruptive lately that some events stall on boring standoffs before they start.
>Forgive my snark, but welcome to the life of a warrior mage.
On the other hand, its felt just as disruptive lately that some events stall on boring standoffs before they start.
>Forgive my snark, but welcome to the life of a warrior mage.
AIM2
Re: Order house removal ::NUDGE::
04/07/2014 07:30 PM CDT
It's a tough row to hoe. Everything Seb said was pretty spot on, "I do it for this, don't do it for this" My experience with the Old Dirty Socks has been pretty...tame. They boot arkarms...but really who wouldn't? You GOTTA throw known criminals/necros out.
There's no 'win' equation for it. Just trying to help.
People will find you just as tedious and boring to talk to at 1000 ranks as they did at 100.
There's no 'win' equation for it. Just trying to help.
People will find you just as tedious and boring to talk to at 1000 ranks as they did at 100.
FLINT-TIPPED
Re: Order house removal ::NUDGE::
04/07/2014 08:16 PM CDT
Putting together an event takes hours of work outside of the game. Not saying this applies to this instance but I've seen many events where someone's 'RP' was to disruptively question or attack every single statement that the event hosts made. Some events welcome healthy dissent because it does add to roleplay but within reason or common sense. I've read a stupid amount of logs and whenever I see someone removed it's overwhelmingly because they were being disruptive rather than bringing anything positive to the table.
example:
If you show up to a lecture event named Introduction to the Paladin's Code and you refute every point pertaining to the Paladin's code, show all the ways the code is flawed, raise hypothetical situations that render the code impractical, try to shoot holes in the lecture at every point and derail the event it's not rping, it's just disruptive. I saw this happen at this example event and because the lecture wasn't held inside of an Order House it was impossible to remove the person who was 'RP'ing. I was pretty disappointed in this particular event because you could see how good it could have been if a handful of disruptive elements could have left well enough alone. It was also evident that the host had put a lot of work and care into it.
In most cases if you are forcibly removed it's because you're making a horse's rear end of yourself or you've built a reputation for making a horse's rear end of yourself. You reap what you sow.
Vote:
http://www.topmudsites.com/vote-DragonRealms.html
example:
If you show up to a lecture event named Introduction to the Paladin's Code and you refute every point pertaining to the Paladin's code, show all the ways the code is flawed, raise hypothetical situations that render the code impractical, try to shoot holes in the lecture at every point and derail the event it's not rping, it's just disruptive. I saw this happen at this example event and because the lecture wasn't held inside of an Order House it was impossible to remove the person who was 'RP'ing. I was pretty disappointed in this particular event because you could see how good it could have been if a handful of disruptive elements could have left well enough alone. It was also evident that the host had put a lot of work and care into it.
In most cases if you are forcibly removed it's because you're making a horse's rear end of yourself or you've built a reputation for making a horse's rear end of yourself. You reap what you sow.
Vote:
http://www.topmudsites.com/vote-DragonRealms.html
