Maybe this was answered but how much impact does mechanism metal count towards construction and final stats?
Also.. the pelletbow apps mostly as a balanced option yet it requires the powerful crossbow techniques. (It is significantly weaker than the battle stonebow) Is this intended?
Otherwise.. thanks. Fun system!
Ooh and does wood type influence the miniatures in any stat related way?
SHAWN255
SEMYON
Re: Crossbow construction question
05/27/2016 09:18 PM CDT
>Maybe this was answered but how much impact does mechanism metal count towards construction and final stats?
From somewhere:
>High ductility mechanisms will bonus the crossbow's balance. Very low ductility mechanisms will greatly penalize balance, but provide a small boost to power.
but it didn't mention to what extent. Also, low quality craftsmanship mechanism can lower the quality of the finished crossbow after being assembled.
From somewhere:
>High ductility mechanisms will bonus the crossbow's balance. Very low ductility mechanisms will greatly penalize balance, but provide a small boost to power.
but it didn't mention to what extent. Also, low quality craftsmanship mechanism can lower the quality of the finished crossbow after being assembled.
SHAWN255
Re: Crossbow construction question
05/27/2016 09:39 PM CDT
Hmmm. Seems slightly silly. Why take a big penalty to balance for a small boost in power.. would love more info about that.
Thanks!
Thanks!
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Crossbow construction question
05/27/2016 09:52 PM CDT
>>Hmmm. Seems slightly silly. Why take a big penalty to balance for a small boost in power.. would love more info about that.
Not all tradeoffs have to be completely equal.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
Not all tradeoffs have to be completely equal.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
DR-ARMIFER
Re: Crossbow construction question
05/27/2016 09:58 PM CDT
More that not all statistics on the crossbow are valued equally.
-Armifer
"Perinthia's astronomers are faced with a difficult choice. Either they must admit that all their calculations were wrong ... or else they must reveal that the order of the gods is reflected exactly in the city of monsters." - Italo Calvino
-Armifer
"Perinthia's astronomers are faced with a difficult choice. Either they must admit that all their calculations were wrong ... or else they must reveal that the order of the gods is reflected exactly in the city of monsters." - Italo Calvino
SHAWN255
Re: Crossbow construction question
05/27/2016 10:57 PM CDT
So is balance on a crossbow just not a real big consideration? But suitedness is?
Or is this one of those stats that just doesnt show well?
Any chance crossbows and bows in general can get a new appraisal template so the stats that matter can be seen or understood?
Or is this one of those stats that just doesnt show well?
Any chance crossbows and bows in general can get a new appraisal template so the stats that matter can be seen or understood?
NINEVAH1
Re: Crossbow construction question
05/27/2016 11:53 PM CDT
>>So is balance on a crossbow just not a real big consideration? But suitedness is?
Balance is the modifier for a chance of fumble/recover. Suitedness modifies damage. Doing more damage on every shot is a bigger deal than recovering on a random miss.
>>Any chance crossbows and bows in general can get a new appraisal template so the stats that matter can be seen or understood?
All the stats on bows/crossbows are the same as every other weapon AFAIK. The only thing that isn't shown is the damage modifiers based on the type of weapon it is, but these are kind of easy to guess since weapon skills like Small Edge/Blunt, Shortbow, and LX have a smaller modifier than 2HB/E, Composite bows, and Arbalests.
Crossbows are missing the line about draw strength in appraisals though.
Balance is the modifier for a chance of fumble/recover. Suitedness modifies damage. Doing more damage on every shot is a bigger deal than recovering on a random miss.
>>Any chance crossbows and bows in general can get a new appraisal template so the stats that matter can be seen or understood?
All the stats on bows/crossbows are the same as every other weapon AFAIK. The only thing that isn't shown is the damage modifiers based on the type of weapon it is, but these are kind of easy to guess since weapon skills like Small Edge/Blunt, Shortbow, and LX have a smaller modifier than 2HB/E, Composite bows, and Arbalests.
Crossbows are missing the line about draw strength in appraisals though.
SHAWN255
Re: Crossbow construction question
05/28/2016 01:43 AM CDT
So I just made two lelori battle stonebows. both are masterfully-crafted.
The first I used plain iron for. The second I used Oravir (lowest ductility in the game... tried coal and the game laughed at me and burned it all away. I tried kicking the crucible... and it laughed at me again... sooo not cool.)
They do app better than the stonebows bought anywhere in the game.. including the festival ones. And that is just using lelori wood.
Iron mechanisms: 50 ductility
A lelori battle stonebow is a light crossbow type weapon.
A lelori battle stonebow trains the crossbow skill.
The battle stonebow is well designed for improving the force of your attacks.
You are certain that the stonebow is reasonably balanced and is soundly suited for adding attack power from its draw strength.
You are certain that the battle stonebow is quite fragile and easily damaged, and is in pristine condition.
It appears that the battle stonebow can be slung over one shoulder.
You are certain that the battle stonebow weighs exactly 76 stones.
You are certain that the battle stonebow is worth exactly 7440 Lirums, 9300 Kronars, or 6710 Dokoras.
Oravir mechanisms: 15 ductility
A lelori battle stonebow is a light crossbow type weapon.
A lelori battle stonebow trains the crossbow skill.
The battle stonebow is well designed for improving the force of your attacks.
You are certain that the stonebow is decently balanced and is soundly suited for adding attack power from its draw strength.
You are certain that the battle stonebow is quite fragile and easily damaged, and is in pristine condition.
It appears that the battle stonebow can be slung over one shoulder.
You are certain that the battle stonebow weighs exactly 76 stones.
You are certain that the battle stonebow is worth exactly 7440 Lirums, 9300 Kronars, or 6710 Dokoras.
So I am seeing the hit to the balance.. but with a difference of 35 ductility I figured I would at least see some slight change elsewhere. Is it really that small of a bonus? or is it a bonus to something we can't see?
Oh.. and for comparison, here is the festival stonebow:
A carved ebony stonebow with black leather sling is a light crossbow type weapon.
A carved ebony stonebow with black leather sling trains the crossbow skill.
The ebony stonebow is well designed for improving the force of your attacks.
You are certain that the stonebow is reasonably balanced and is reasonably suited for adding attack power from its draw strength.
You are certain that the ebony stonebow is appreciably susceptible to damage, and is in pristine condition.
It appears that the ebony stonebow can be slung over one shoulder.
You are certain that the ebony stonebow weighs exactly 50 stones.
You are certain that the ebony stonebow is worth exactly 30000 Lirums, 37500 Kronars, or 27060 Dokoras.
And here is the comparison of the iron mechanisms stonebow to it:
You are certain that the battle stonebow is a little more balanced than the ebony stonebow.
You are certain that the battle stonebow is somewhat more suited to gaining extra attack power from your strength than the ebony stonebow.
You are confident that the battle stonebow weighs quite a bit more than the ebony stonebow.
The first I used plain iron for. The second I used Oravir (lowest ductility in the game... tried coal and the game laughed at me and burned it all away. I tried kicking the crucible... and it laughed at me again... sooo not cool.)
They do app better than the stonebows bought anywhere in the game.. including the festival ones. And that is just using lelori wood.
Iron mechanisms: 50 ductility
A lelori battle stonebow is a light crossbow type weapon.
A lelori battle stonebow trains the crossbow skill.
The battle stonebow is well designed for improving the force of your attacks.
You are certain that the stonebow is reasonably balanced and is soundly suited for adding attack power from its draw strength.
You are certain that the battle stonebow is quite fragile and easily damaged, and is in pristine condition.
It appears that the battle stonebow can be slung over one shoulder.
You are certain that the battle stonebow weighs exactly 76 stones.
You are certain that the battle stonebow is worth exactly 7440 Lirums, 9300 Kronars, or 6710 Dokoras.
Oravir mechanisms: 15 ductility
A lelori battle stonebow is a light crossbow type weapon.
A lelori battle stonebow trains the crossbow skill.
The battle stonebow is well designed for improving the force of your attacks.
You are certain that the stonebow is decently balanced and is soundly suited for adding attack power from its draw strength.
You are certain that the battle stonebow is quite fragile and easily damaged, and is in pristine condition.
It appears that the battle stonebow can be slung over one shoulder.
You are certain that the battle stonebow weighs exactly 76 stones.
You are certain that the battle stonebow is worth exactly 7440 Lirums, 9300 Kronars, or 6710 Dokoras.
So I am seeing the hit to the balance.. but with a difference of 35 ductility I figured I would at least see some slight change elsewhere. Is it really that small of a bonus? or is it a bonus to something we can't see?
Oh.. and for comparison, here is the festival stonebow:
A carved ebony stonebow with black leather sling is a light crossbow type weapon.
A carved ebony stonebow with black leather sling trains the crossbow skill.
The ebony stonebow is well designed for improving the force of your attacks.
You are certain that the stonebow is reasonably balanced and is reasonably suited for adding attack power from its draw strength.
You are certain that the ebony stonebow is appreciably susceptible to damage, and is in pristine condition.
It appears that the ebony stonebow can be slung over one shoulder.
You are certain that the ebony stonebow weighs exactly 50 stones.
You are certain that the ebony stonebow is worth exactly 30000 Lirums, 37500 Kronars, or 27060 Dokoras.
And here is the comparison of the iron mechanisms stonebow to it:
You are certain that the battle stonebow is a little more balanced than the ebony stonebow.
You are certain that the battle stonebow is somewhat more suited to gaining extra attack power from your strength than the ebony stonebow.
You are confident that the battle stonebow weighs quite a bit more than the ebony stonebow.
BADGOPHER
Re: Crossbow construction question
05/28/2016 07:33 AM CDT
I never noticed that the festival stonebow had better appraisals than the regular shop one (decently/decently).
NINEVAH1
Re: Crossbow construction question
05/28/2016 11:38 AM CDT
>>So I am seeing the hit to the balance.. but with a difference of 35 ductility I figured I would at least see some slight change elsewhere. Is it really that small of a bonus? or is it a bonus to something we can't see?
The bonus is to suitedness. If you go the other way (high ductility) then you need 95+ to see a change in how the crossbow appraises. I'm betting it is the same with changing the bonus to suitedness, especially since it is a small bonus. Right now there just isn't any metals that have low enough ductility to get there.
Kodius said in Test one night that you don't start to get the bonuses from ductility unless you are using very high (~80+) or very low (~-20) ductile metals. The neutral point for ductility is a much bigger range than just 50.
The bonus is to suitedness. If you go the other way (high ductility) then you need 95+ to see a change in how the crossbow appraises. I'm betting it is the same with changing the bonus to suitedness, especially since it is a small bonus. Right now there just isn't any metals that have low enough ductility to get there.
Kodius said in Test one night that you don't start to get the bonuses from ductility unless you are using very high (~80+) or very low (~-20) ductile metals. The neutral point for ductility is a much bigger range than just 50.
SHAWN255
Re: Crossbow construction question
05/28/2016 06:14 PM CDT
-20 ductile? so impossible to get then. since 15 is the lowest it goes. or did you mean <20?
random other question..
Is it listed anywhere what the techniques actually do? None of the society masters can tell you.
Some are obvious... others not so much.
random other question..
Is it listed anywhere what the techniques actually do? None of the society masters can tell you.
Some are obvious... others not so much.
NINEVAH1
Re: Crossbow construction question
05/28/2016 06:22 PM CDT
>> or did you mean <20
Meant this. I'm not 100% on those numbers either since I haven't dug through my logs and it's been awhile, but you need either high or low ductility to make a difference with mechanisms.
>>Is it listed anywhere what the techniques actually do? None of the society masters can tell you.
I think Kodius is still working on this.
Meant this. I'm not 100% on those numbers either since I haven't dug through my logs and it's been awhile, but you need either high or low ductility to make a difference with mechanisms.
>>Is it listed anywhere what the techniques actually do? None of the society masters can tell you.
I think Kodius is still working on this.
SHAWN255
Re: Crossbow construction question
05/28/2016 06:34 PM CDT
Well.. I tested with Oravir which has the lowest possible (at this time) ductility at 15. And it changes the balance, but doesn't change the suitedness... even with compare.
So not really going to worry about that at this point unless Kodius or Armifer want to confirm that it impacts something we just can't see. Like draw strength or something.
So not really going to worry about that at this point unless Kodius or Armifer want to confirm that it impacts something we just can't see. Like draw strength or something.
SHAWN255
Re: Crossbow construction question
05/28/2016 11:03 PM CDT
also.. just made some light crossbows..
it seems really odd that the latchbows and lockbows are so much worse than the battle crossbow, especially considering they all use the advanced powerful technique.
Like I get that for whatever counter intuitive reason.. the harder an item is to make.. it doesn't always follow that the stats are better (which can be really frustrating at time)
but.. why offer latchbows and lockbows or similar only at the end of the chapter?
Wouldn't it have made more sense to get rid of some of the 'insert random adjective' crossbow.. and had like practice/slim/saddle/steppe/forester/battle of crossbow/lockbow/latchbow?
At least then it would just be a choice of noun and it wouldn't be so oddly out of place in regards to stats.
like:
1. Practice Crossbow
2. Practice Lockbow
3. Practice Latchbow
4. Slim Crossbow
5. Slim Lockbow
6. Slim Latchbow
7. Saddle Crossbow
8. etc etc etc
At least then we can have some choice in terms of what type of crossbow it is... and it will be relevant in stats.
it seems really odd that the latchbows and lockbows are so much worse than the battle crossbow, especially considering they all use the advanced powerful technique.
Like I get that for whatever counter intuitive reason.. the harder an item is to make.. it doesn't always follow that the stats are better (which can be really frustrating at time)
but.. why offer latchbows and lockbows or similar only at the end of the chapter?
Wouldn't it have made more sense to get rid of some of the 'insert random adjective' crossbow.. and had like practice/slim/saddle/steppe/forester/battle of crossbow/lockbow/latchbow?
At least then it would just be a choice of noun and it wouldn't be so oddly out of place in regards to stats.
like:
1. Practice Crossbow
2. Practice Lockbow
3. Practice Latchbow
4. Slim Crossbow
5. Slim Lockbow
6. Slim Latchbow
7. Saddle Crossbow
8. etc etc etc
At least then we can have some choice in terms of what type of crossbow it is... and it will be relevant in stats.
IVJAMES
Re: Crossbow construction question
05/29/2016 09:06 AM CDT
I should put this mechanism up for auction.
The mechanisms appear to have a ductility of 775025 on the Trader's scale.
The steel mechanisms are made with metal.
You are certain that the steel mechanisms weighs exactly 1 stone.
You think it is likely that the steel mechanisms are worth about 15440620 Dokoras
I was testing out different metal mixes this set was 67% LCS and 33% nickle. The second set I made wat -725232 and worth a mint.
Probably a little buggy still?
The mechanisms appear to have a ductility of 775025 on the Trader's scale.
The steel mechanisms are made with metal.
You are certain that the steel mechanisms weighs exactly 1 stone.
You think it is likely that the steel mechanisms are worth about 15440620 Dokoras
I was testing out different metal mixes this set was 67% LCS and 33% nickle. The second set I made wat -725232 and worth a mint.
Probably a little buggy still?
DR-KODIUS
Re: Crossbow construction question
05/29/2016 10:51 AM CDT
>>it seems really odd that the latchbows and lockbows are so much worse t
Please take into consideration their reduced load time. Difficulty is based more off load time then suitability/damage, because I've always noticed a trend towards faster bows (higher DPS vs unarmored) than harder hitting bows (best DPS vs armor). Lockbows have reduced load time and Latchbows should have the lowest load time.
Crossbows should be tiered exactly the same as Stickbows for the purposes of difficulty/techniques vs load times and damage. Do email me if you see anything that appears off so I can see if any typos were made.
Thanks!
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
Please take into consideration their reduced load time. Difficulty is based more off load time then suitability/damage, because I've always noticed a trend towards faster bows (higher DPS vs unarmored) than harder hitting bows (best DPS vs armor). Lockbows have reduced load time and Latchbows should have the lowest load time.
Crossbows should be tiered exactly the same as Stickbows for the purposes of difficulty/techniques vs load times and damage. Do email me if you see anything that appears off so I can see if any typos were made.
Thanks!
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
DR-KODIUS
Re: Crossbow construction question
05/29/2016 10:52 AM CDT
There is an occasional bug I am still trying to resolve with mechanic durability. It should auto-correct itself when you combine/break/craft with it at some point. Sorry for the confusion!
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
FRANKYFIGGS
Re: Crossbow construction question
05/30/2016 03:07 PM CDT
the music boxes rule Kodius, they super rule, probably the coolest thing people can craft.
fireworks next?
-Munch-
fireworks next?
-Munch-
