Previous
>ass teach
You assess the teaching environment...
You are teaching a class on Evasion which is still open to new students.
Your class includes:
Ourano
Kleet
Aldreeya
Kaydian
Tasum
Urety
Ebren
Synix
Roundtime: 5 seconds.
R>
You continue to instruct your students on Evasion.
Ourano is hanging on your every word, seeming to want more.
Kleet regards you with a blank, slack-jawed stare, showing that nothing has sunk in. You mutter under your breath, "Blithering bovine!"
Aldreeya unconsciously mimics some of what you just taught her, thereby urging you on to greater teaching feats.
Kaydian seems to have a natural aptitude for Evasion.
Tasum listens, enraptured and enthralled by your teachings.
Urety listens, enraptured and enthralled by your teachings.
Ebren seems to have a natural aptitude for Evasion.
Synix listens, enraptured and enthralled by your teachings.
R>
>sk ev
SKILL: Rank/Percent towards next rank/Amount learning/Mindstate fraction
Evasion: 247 65.99% dabbling (1/34)
Teaching learning great (34/34), Evasion and Scholarship at 1/34. Been teaching 6-12 students for over 30 minutes. Is it really intended to be this way? Even scholarship?
GRANTJ47
JMF90
Re: So teaching suppose to teach little expect for teaching?
12/18/2009 01:28 PM CST
I've been complaining about this since new teaching got released. Scholarship exp is way too low. There's no incentive to actually teach a class. Not even for the teaching exp, since you can just listen observe.
LORZELOPHIA
Re: So teaching suppose to teach little expect for teaching?
12/18/2009 01:28 PM CST
It usually isn't enough to outpace the drain, but it can definitely add up. My Cleric has over 100 TM just from teaching TM to my Empath. The Cleric doesn't even know any TM spells other than bolt, it's all from teaching classes.
I am pretty satisfied with how it works.
-- Player of Szrael --
"Necromancy is Bad" (GM Armifer)
I am pretty satisfied with how it works.
-- Player of Szrael --
"Necromancy is Bad" (GM Armifer)
ALDEN
Re: So teaching suppose to teach little expect for teaching?
12/18/2009 02:51 PM CST
Oh I feel the pain. Yes we do learn a little, and with changes to experience that little means more, but considering that learning Scholarship and the skill being taught are the only thing Teaching does for the Teacher, I think there should be better rewards for it. If I didn't have teaching requirements I would probably never teach other than just to be friendly.
ALEPH-ONE
Re: So teaching suppose to teach little expect for teaching?
12/18/2009 03:51 PM CST
>>If I didn't have teaching requirements I would probably never teach other than just to be friendly.
I love training random skills. Especially completely useless skills, like Animal Lore, and difficult skills, like Escaping. (Not for TDPs; I just find it amusing.)
But even I don't bother with Teaching. :(
Don't get me wrong. It is infinitely better than it was, and for that I am wholeheartedly thankful. There's just nothing exciting about it. At least with Animal Lore I can think, "Well, maybe one day...!" But I can't even imagine Teaching ever being cool. And, as has been said, there seems to be little benefit to Teaching other than Teaching experience.
-- Player of Niieth
I love training random skills. Especially completely useless skills, like Animal Lore, and difficult skills, like Escaping. (Not for TDPs; I just find it amusing.)
But even I don't bother with Teaching. :(
Don't get me wrong. It is infinitely better than it was, and for that I am wholeheartedly thankful. There's just nothing exciting about it. At least with Animal Lore I can think, "Well, maybe one day...!" But I can't even imagine Teaching ever being cool. And, as has been said, there seems to be little benefit to Teaching other than Teaching experience.
-- Player of Niieth
DR-DARTENIAN
Re: So teaching suppose to teach little expect for teaching?
12/19/2009 01:34 AM CST
> But I can't even imagine Teaching ever being cool.
If we end up going with what Ssra wanted to do, you may be in for a huge surprise. And odds are we probably will.
- GM Dartenian
If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right. - Henry Ford
If we end up going with what Ssra wanted to do, you may be in for a huge surprise. And odds are we probably will.
- GM Dartenian
If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right. - Henry Ford
IDONS-BUDDY
Re: So teaching suppose to teach little expect for teaching?
12/19/2009 01:41 AM CST
Please let me teach in combat? :(
Rev. Reene
(8:07:56 PM) Totenus: Also I thumped my first person
(8:08:05 PM) Reene: How did it feel
(8:08:09 PM) Totenus: pretty awesome
Rev. Reene
(8:07:56 PM) Totenus: Also I thumped my first person
(8:08:05 PM) Reene: How did it feel
(8:08:09 PM) Totenus: pretty awesome
LAMBL
Re: So teaching suppose to teach little expect for teaching?
12/19/2009 08:34 AM CST
At this point, I'd be thrilled if teaching a class actually awarded a perceptible amount of Teaching experience in more than just a few obscure situations. :/
Thanks,
-Death's Nemesis Karthor
Thanks,
-Death's Nemesis Karthor
JMF90
Re: So teaching suppose to teach little expect for teaching?
12/19/2009 11:33 AM CST
>Please let me teach in combat?
ALEPH-ONE
Re: So teaching suppose to teach little expect for teaching?
12/19/2009 03:48 PM CST
>>If we end up going with what Ssra wanted to do, you may be in for a huge surprise. And odds are we probably will.
Darn it, Dart. Now I'm going to have to train it!
<mutters something about cryptic GM posts>
-- Player of Niieth
Darn it, Dart. Now I'm going to have to train it!
<mutters something about cryptic GM posts>
-- Player of Niieth
TERRA
Re: So teaching suppose to teach little expect for teaching?
12/20/2009 08:11 AM CST
I love teaching, it's one of my highest lores. I'd love to see more uses for it. I'd love to see teaching non-combat skills in combat actually become a skill feat instead of a Bard only perk. I enjoy this perk greatly, but I think it makes more sense as a teaching feat and would make the skill considerably more desirable than it is now.
- Terra
- Terra
DRISCOLLS
Re: So teaching suppose to teach little expect for teaching?
12/20/2009 11:23 AM CST
Terra, if you keep posting how much you like things that blatantly suck, I'm afraid I'm going to have to be very cross with you.
-=Issus=-
-=Issus=-
TERRA
Re: So teaching suppose to teach little expect for teaching?
12/20/2009 11:39 AM CST
Maybe I should have been clearer. I like the idea of the teaching skill. In execution, it could use a little work. But I don't think it's that broken for what it's supposed to do.
- Terra
- Terra
GUTTERBUNNY
Re: So teaching suppose to teach little expect for teaching?
12/20/2009 12:09 PM CST
>Terra, if you keep posting how much you like things that blatantly suck, I'm afraid I'm going to have to be very cross with you
You're a Bard, Steve.
"Ridicule may lawfully be employed where reason has no hope of success."
You're a Bard, Steve.
"Ridicule may lawfully be employed where reason has no hope of success."
SPECIALSAUCES
Re: So teaching suppose to teach little expect for teaching?
12/20/2009 01:08 PM CST
>>Terra, if you keep posting how much you like things that blatantly suck, I'm afraid I'm going to have to be very cross with you
>You're a Bard, Steve.
Ahahahaha.
I will continue to get blunter on this topic until people get the message or my posts contain enough profanity to be removed. - Armifer on stupid Necros
>You're a Bard, Steve.
Ahahahaha.
I will continue to get blunter on this topic until people get the message or my posts contain enough profanity to be removed. - Armifer on stupid Necros
DR-DARTENIAN
Re: So teaching suppose to teach little expect for teaching?
12/20/2009 02:24 PM CST
>Terra, if you keep posting how much you like things that blatantly suck, I'm afraid I'm going to have to be very cross with you
> You're a Bard, Steve.
Sorry, but this did make me laugh!
The thing I do find amusing regarding all the threads stating that teaching is virtually worthless is that if I pulled the ability to teach from the game right now, there would be a huge wailing and gnashing of teeth heard across the land. Probably moreso than if I pulled any one of a dozen other skills.
- GM Dartenian
If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right. - Henry Ford
> You're a Bard, Steve.
Sorry, but this did make me laugh!
The thing I do find amusing regarding all the threads stating that teaching is virtually worthless is that if I pulled the ability to teach from the game right now, there would be a huge wailing and gnashing of teeth heard across the land. Probably moreso than if I pulled any one of a dozen other skills.
- GM Dartenian
If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right. - Henry Ford
IDONS-BUDDY
Re: So teaching suppose to teach little expect for teaching?
12/20/2009 02:28 PM CST
I just want my teaching and scholarship to do something for me besides get me awesome and ironic titles.
Rev. Reene
(8:07:56 PM) Totenus: Also I thumped my first person
(8:08:05 PM) Reene: How did it feel
(8:08:09 PM) Totenus: pretty awesome
Rev. Reene
(8:07:56 PM) Totenus: Also I thumped my first person
(8:08:05 PM) Reene: How did it feel
(8:08:09 PM) Totenus: pretty awesome
CHOSON
Re: So teaching suppose to teach little expect for teaching?
12/20/2009 02:29 PM CST
Your teaching does great things for me when I listen to your classes.
LORD-RAHL
Re: So teaching suppose to teach little expect for teaching?
12/20/2009 02:46 PM CST
I wonder what percentage of those wailing and gnashing of teeths would be from people who only play one account at a time thought?
And basically every time enough people are gathered for a class unless one DRASTICALLY outclasses the rest in my experience it's "Okay... who gets stuck teaching?". And then you hope someone with a high teaching req (Or someone like Caelumia who's just crazy) folds and offers to teach.
SEND[Abasha] It warms my heart to see three people die for a cupcake.
And basically every time enough people are gathered for a class unless one DRASTICALLY outclasses the rest in my experience it's "Okay... who gets stuck teaching?". And then you hope someone with a high teaching req (Or someone like Caelumia who's just crazy) folds and offers to teach.
SEND[Abasha] It warms my heart to see three people die for a cupcake.
IDONS-BUDDY
Re: So teaching suppose to teach little expect for teaching?
12/20/2009 02:48 PM CST
It would satisfy me if the experience gained from teaching a skill would allow us to hover at 5/34 or so.
So while we're actively teaching it, we'd get full-sized pulses from it, but not enough to keep it going once we stop.
Rev. Reene
(8:07:56 PM) Totenus: Also I thumped my first person
(8:08:05 PM) Reene: How did it feel
(8:08:09 PM) Totenus: pretty awesome
So while we're actively teaching it, we'd get full-sized pulses from it, but not enough to keep it going once we stop.
Rev. Reene
(8:07:56 PM) Totenus: Also I thumped my first person
(8:08:05 PM) Reene: How did it feel
(8:08:09 PM) Totenus: pretty awesome
DRISCOLLS
Re: So teaching suppose to teach little expect for teaching?
12/20/2009 02:49 PM CST
Teaching does something, so yes it would be missed. But does it do enough? No way. I'd take 200 free ranks of just about any nonlore skill over 1000 free ranks of Teaching any day. As for suggestions on how to make Teaching and Scholarship better, though... I'm still working on that.
-=Issus=-
-=Issus=-
DR-DARTENIAN
Re: So teaching suppose to teach little expect for teaching?
12/20/2009 03:02 PM CST
> But does it do enough? No way.
See, I'd argue this point, but then again, I have several hundred "free" ranks that I'd never have had without someone teaching me, so I can say that.
- GM Dartenian
If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right. - Henry Ford
See, I'd argue this point, but then again, I have several hundred "free" ranks that I'd never have had without someone teaching me, so I can say that.
- GM Dartenian
If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right. - Henry Ford
LORD-RAHL
Re: So teaching suppose to teach little expect for teaching?
12/20/2009 03:04 PM CST
People aren't saying "teaching is useless for the student". They're saying it's very underwhelming as the teacher.
(though I'd like to throw in that scholarship exp as a student seems to rarely be able to outpace the drain even if the topic is flying and as the main source of scholar exp that's somewhat of a problem)
SEND[Abasha] It warms my heart to see three people die for a cupcake.
(though I'd like to throw in that scholarship exp as a student seems to rarely be able to outpace the drain even if the topic is flying and as the main source of scholar exp that's somewhat of a problem)
SEND[Abasha] It warms my heart to see three people die for a cupcake.
ROBERTDH
Re: So teaching suppose to teach little expect for teaching?
12/20/2009 03:07 PM CST
Maybe rename the teaching skill 'Altruism!' With the exclamation point in there.
"...I am inclined to think the focus of the [Warmage's] spellbook should be ways to make things explode, to help you make things explode, or to assist your victim in exploding." -Armifer
"...I am inclined to think the focus of the [Warmage's] spellbook should be ways to make things explode, to help you make things explode, or to assist your victim in exploding." -Armifer
LORD-RAHL
Re: So teaching suppose to teach little expect for teaching?
12/20/2009 03:08 PM CST
3 points.
SEND[Abasha] It warms my heart to see three people die for a cupcake.
SEND[Abasha] It warms my heart to see three people die for a cupcake.
MOOK1
Re: So teaching suppose to teach little expect for teaching?
12/20/2009 03:12 PM CST
<<Maybe rename the teaching skill 'Altruism!' With the exclamation point in there.
Caelumia says, "Want to know something funny?"
>nod
You nod.
>
Caelumia is showing you her skills.
Altruism!: 607 47.95% mind lock (34/34)
Total Ranks Displayed: 607
>raise eye
You arch your eyebrow.
-Evran
Crackling with unspent rage since 386A.V.
Caelumia says, "Want to know something funny?"
>nod
You nod.
>
Caelumia is showing you her skills.
Altruism!: 607 47.95% mind lock (34/34)
Total Ranks Displayed: 607
>raise eye
You arch your eyebrow.
-Evran
Crackling with unspent rage since 386A.V.
LORD-RAHL
Re: So teaching suppose to teach little expect for teaching?
12/20/2009 03:12 PM CST
::ponders a new sig::
SEND[Abasha] It warms my heart to see three people die for a cupcake.
SEND[Abasha] It warms my heart to see three people die for a cupcake.
IDONS-BUDDY
Re: So teaching suppose to teach little expect for teaching?
12/20/2009 03:26 PM CST
Ahahahaha.
Rev. Reene
(8:07:56 PM) Totenus: Also I thumped my first person
(8:08:05 PM) Reene: How did it feel
(8:08:09 PM) Totenus: pretty awesome
Rev. Reene
(8:07:56 PM) Totenus: Also I thumped my first person
(8:08:05 PM) Reene: How did it feel
(8:08:09 PM) Totenus: pretty awesome
DR-ARMIFER
Re: So teaching suppose to teach little expect for teaching?
12/20/2009 03:53 PM CST
>>People aren't saying "teaching is useless for the student". They're saying it's very underwhelming as the teacher.
I suggest forming the Professional Teachers' Association.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
I suggest forming the Professional Teachers' Association.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
TERKOWITZM
Re: So teaching suppose to teach little expect for teaching?
12/20/2009 03:55 PM CST
I honestly don't care that teaching is borderline useless for the teacher. I just want to be able to learn the skill.
As it currently stands I'm better off finding Caelumia once a week and teaching her for 15 minutes than I am finding 10 newbies outside the NE gate and teaching all 10 of them for an hour while they script foraging or whatever they're doing. On top of that, if I teach Caelumia + 5 newbies I learn less than if I teach Caelumia alone. The experience in teaching for the teacher just doesn't seem to be working very well.
I really don't like that the whole "risk vs reward" mentality has been applied to teaching. If I could learn it from teaching critters, sure, give me risk vs reward. Since the skill has no inherent risk, why the heck are we doing skill-based comparisons between the teacher and the student to determine experience?
As it currently stands I'm better off finding Caelumia once a week and teaching her for 15 minutes than I am finding 10 newbies outside the NE gate and teaching all 10 of them for an hour while they script foraging or whatever they're doing. On top of that, if I teach Caelumia + 5 newbies I learn less than if I teach Caelumia alone. The experience in teaching for the teacher just doesn't seem to be working very well.
I really don't like that the whole "risk vs reward" mentality has been applied to teaching. If I could learn it from teaching critters, sure, give me risk vs reward. Since the skill has no inherent risk, why the heck are we doing skill-based comparisons between the teacher and the student to determine experience?
LAMBL
Re: So teaching suppose to teach little expect for teaching?
12/20/2009 03:58 PM CST
<<The experience in teaching for the teacher just doesn't seem to be working very well.>>
Thanks,
-Death's Nemesis Karthor
Thanks,
-Death's Nemesis Karthor
ZUERCAT
Re: So teaching suppose to teach little expect for teaching?
12/20/2009 06:25 PM CST
>The thing I do find amusing regarding all the threads stating that teaching is virtually worthless is that if I pulled the ability to teach from the game right now, there would be a huge wailing and gnashing of teeth heard across the land. Probably moreso than if I pulled any one of a dozen other skills.
However, you would also hear the pitter patter of Kythryn feet doing a happy dance...:P
I am a stick in the mud when it comes to enjoying training skills that need other characters to do. I adore the way Empathy is now, because we can heal players and learn the skill wonderfully, but we don't have to camp a spot waiting to heal someone to advance (ie. can empathy-walk or use blood critters for slower but independent training). Would like to see Teaching take a similar route, where the best way to train is teaching/listening to other characters, but have the libraries, universities, etc. have lectures you can go to for an alternate method of training.
Kythryn
However, you would also hear the pitter patter of Kythryn feet doing a happy dance...:P
I am a stick in the mud when it comes to enjoying training skills that need other characters to do. I adore the way Empathy is now, because we can heal players and learn the skill wonderfully, but we don't have to camp a spot waiting to heal someone to advance (ie. can empathy-walk or use blood critters for slower but independent training). Would like to see Teaching take a similar route, where the best way to train is teaching/listening to other characters, but have the libraries, universities, etc. have lectures you can go to for an alternate method of training.
Kythryn
DGUTHRIE2
Re: So teaching suppose to teach little expect for teaching?
12/20/2009 07:01 PM CST
>>People aren't saying "teaching is useless for the student". They're saying it's very underwhelming as the teacher.<<
Find 1 student with 300+ in scholarship and the teacher will lock teaching, scholarship, and move a little bit of the skill being taught. I happen to like teaching, and especially scholarship. Teaching n00bs, even 3 or 4 n00bs, doesn't do diddly for my teaching, but 1 good student pays huge dividends.
________________________________________
<<DISCLAIMER: THIS POSTER IS NOT A MEMBER OF STAFF AND HIS INFORMATION IS/MIGHT BE WRONG. >>
You flat out, absolutely, 100% have no idea what you're talking about.
Solomon
Find 1 student with 300+ in scholarship and the teacher will lock teaching, scholarship, and move a little bit of the skill being taught. I happen to like teaching, and especially scholarship. Teaching n00bs, even 3 or 4 n00bs, doesn't do diddly for my teaching, but 1 good student pays huge dividends.
________________________________________
<<DISCLAIMER: THIS POSTER IS NOT A MEMBER OF STAFF AND HIS INFORMATION IS/MIGHT BE WRONG. >>
You flat out, absolutely, 100% have no idea what you're talking about.
Solomon
IDONS-BUDDY
Re: So teaching suppose to teach little expect for teaching?
12/20/2009 07:03 PM CST
Teaching and scholarship don't actually do anything though.
If you were to cut my teaching and scholarship in half, I would bet money that there would be no appreciable difference in the quality of my classes, nor would I listen any less efficiently.
It's also moronic that one good student will lock you but that same good student and three bad ones will actually make you learn worse which decreases the desire to help out newbies with classes.
The two skills are just bad and need help.
Rev. Reene
(8:07:56 PM) Totenus: Also I thumped my first person
(8:08:05 PM) Reene: How did it feel
(8:08:09 PM) Totenus: pretty awesome
If you were to cut my teaching and scholarship in half, I would bet money that there would be no appreciable difference in the quality of my classes, nor would I listen any less efficiently.
It's also moronic that one good student will lock you but that same good student and three bad ones will actually make you learn worse which decreases the desire to help out newbies with classes.
The two skills are just bad and need help.
Rev. Reene
(8:07:56 PM) Totenus: Also I thumped my first person
(8:08:05 PM) Reene: How did it feel
(8:08:09 PM) Totenus: pretty awesome
PUREHAND
Re: So teaching suppose to teach little expect for teaching?
12/20/2009 07:03 PM CST
Does the student's scholarship have more to do with it or their skill in what you're teaching? With the same student, I can learn virtually nothing teaching them a skill they have 100 in, but I can lock all three skills if I teach them a class in a skill they have 550 in.
~ Purehand
After a long deliberation, the judge finally says, "Purehand, this court finds you innocent of the charges brought upon you."
~ Purehand
After a long deliberation, the judge finally says, "Purehand, this court finds you innocent of the charges brought upon you."
JMF90
Re: So teaching suppose to teach little expect for teaching?
12/20/2009 09:11 PM CST
>Find 1 student with 300+ in scholarship and the teacher will lock teaching, scholarship, and move a little bit of the skill being taught.
I wish.
Teaching: 896 77.86% clear (0/34)
And it'll stay there into the foreseeable future.
I wish.
Teaching: 896 77.86% clear (0/34)
And it'll stay there into the foreseeable future.
DR-DARTENIAN
Re: So teaching suppose to teach little expect for teaching?
12/21/2009 03:32 AM CST
> It's also moronic that one good student will lock you but that same good student and three bad ones will actually make you learn worse which decreases the desire to help out newbies with classes.
If this is happening, something broke somewhere along the way. The teacher's experience is based on the BEST student's experience, plus a bonus for each additional student. And that was exactly what was happening when I was watching the numbers at release. I'll check in on it when I get a chance, but unless something did break post-release (and that is certainly very possible), what you are describing shouldn't be happening.
- GM Dartenian
If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right. - Henry Ford
If this is happening, something broke somewhere along the way. The teacher's experience is based on the BEST student's experience, plus a bonus for each additional student. And that was exactly what was happening when I was watching the numbers at release. I'll check in on it when I get a chance, but unless something did break post-release (and that is certainly very possible), what you are describing shouldn't be happening.
- GM Dartenian
If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right. - Henry Ford
IDONS-BUDDY
Re: So teaching suppose to teach little expect for teaching?
12/21/2009 06:10 AM CST
>> If this is happening, something broke somewhere along the way.
Smegul has documented this a lot better than I have, since my method of training teaching is to just start a class and try my hardest not to look at my mindstate.
Still his results seemed to be noticeable and consistent, using me as the big test student.
Rev. Reene
(8:07:56 PM) Totenus: Also I thumped my first person
(8:08:05 PM) Reene: How did it feel
(8:08:09 PM) Totenus: pretty awesome
Smegul has documented this a lot better than I have, since my method of training teaching is to just start a class and try my hardest not to look at my mindstate.
Still his results seemed to be noticeable and consistent, using me as the big test student.
Rev. Reene
(8:07:56 PM) Totenus: Also I thumped my first person
(8:08:05 PM) Reene: How did it feel
(8:08:09 PM) Totenus: pretty awesome
GABRIELBLACK
Re: So teaching suppose to teach little expect for teaching?
12/21/2009 08:11 AM CST
>>People aren't saying "teaching is useless for the student". They're saying it's very underwhelming as the teacher.
>>I suggest forming the Professional Teachers' Association.
Elanthian PTA? Whats next "Miss Terra's and Miss Caelumia's graduating class of 396"? Zoluren High School Spring Break?
Honestly teaching has done very little for me over the years. Though I've never been the type to sit in a class for any length of time and have that be my main focus while playing. Classes and teaching them has always been something secondary to whatever else I was doing. IE: I'm foraging, someone asks me to teach or offers a lesson, I agree, I finish forging, class is over, move to new location. The longest I've taught/listened is probably under an hr unless I was at an event, and still the class is secondary to whatever is going on.
Alexii points at a Velakan slaver and shouts, "Another one! Don't let it get away!"
TERRA
Re: So teaching suppose to teach little expect for teaching?
12/21/2009 09:31 AM CST
I think teaching does what it's supposed to do fairly well. I've done some thorough testing and I don't seem to have the same bad results that some of you all have. But maybe it's due to abnormally high scholarship/teaching? I don't know. I'll do some more testing and post results, oh in the next year or so.
- Terra
- Terra
