Since over in the TDP folders one of the bigger complaints was about making scholarship more useful, I figured I'd put a list of ideas together -- some of these I'm sure have been mentioned before. Feel free to add your own.
-Make Scholarship the "Ur-Lore" skill like the plan for Defending, Melee/Missile Mastery, Primary Magic, etc. A lot of the below ideas could be combined with skills both inside and outside the Lore skillset.
-General RT reducer. If you have enough scholarship and attempt to perform certain actions (across the skillsets) it could lower the RT by a second or so due to application of your superior knowledge.
-Textbooks/primers to learn/bonus skills outside of actual practice or to prepare for another task. These would work like the prayer bead primers but actually grant experience while studying them in addition to a bonus after finishing studying. It would be less experience than actually doing a task, but it would provide an experience/skill boost while under the effect of reading the textbook or primer.
-Languages -- understanding a new langugage every hundred ranks and speaking that language every two hundred ranks. The player would go to an academy after reaching this level and "learn" their choice of knowledge of Gamgweth, Ilithic, Haakish, etc. I imagine this would work similarly to declaring citizenship or registering an item.
-More "Recalls": Doesn't necessarily have to be part of the recall system, but allow us knowledge of creature weaknesses/strengths (like how skeletons are slice resistant but impact weak), spell information like those included in spellbooks (mana, description, min/max prep, etc. At a certain level of scholarship and arcana you would be able to remember non-guild spells), RP aspects (provincial/guild leaders, government/guild structure, organizations like the Hounds of Rutilor, major people not included in the recall famous cards etc.), and other things like rare materials and racial weapons. Basically put a lot of the stuff on Elanthipedia and the GM wiki in game.
-Greater rumor system access with more scholarship: that bartender who wouldn't listen to you now will.
-More Raven's Court type places -- one in each province. There are a lot of random works of art as well as museums that can be tied into this system.
-All skills able to be taught by everyone both in and out of combat. I'm looking at you, TM.
-A learning bonus for using LECTURE or PREACH while teaching -- must use certain keywords and be of sufficient length.
-Teach classes in different skills at an academy for money. Structure it somewhat like play/hum with different levels of classes (introductory, elementary, midlevel, advanced, trade school, undergrad, graduate, professional, executive, doctorate etc.), but make it more restrictive than play/hum (more like climb practice), and money earned would be based on time spent teaching and level of class taught.
~Thilan
TELGER
DGUTHRIE2
Re: Uses for Scholarship
12/20/2010 04:17 PM CST
Excellent ideas.
________________________________________
Clerics are on the sectual radar.
Just to be clear - I didn't do it. Not sure who did, but it wasn't me.
- GM Raesh
________________________________________
Clerics are on the sectual radar.
Just to be clear - I didn't do it. Not sure who did, but it wasn't me.
- GM Raesh
ISHARON
Re: Uses for Scholarship
12/20/2010 07:32 PM CST
I like these ideas, especially the one about learning additional languages.
Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall rank!
Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall rank!
SHADOW7988
Re: Uses for Scholarship
12/25/2010 10:39 AM CST
I don't know why, but the learning additional languages always makes me feel so good. I just hope someday, maybe for some Chris' Mass soon we'll have the ability somehow.
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Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
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Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
MOOK1
Re: Uses for Scholarship
12/25/2010 11:35 AM CST
Actually, this reminds me... Is each level of crystal mind sentience a fixed level or a range? I've always assumed the former, but its crossed my mind a couple of times that I could be wrong.
-Evran
"RAGE + TEAR + EYE + RESO + HARM + DRUM + MISD + PRIDE + Your choice of Cyclic + AoE stun/knockdown as needed without losing buffs = OMG! I just crapped my pants!" -Evran
-Evran
"RAGE + TEAR + EYE + RESO + HARM + DRUM + MISD + PRIDE + Your choice of Cyclic + AoE stun/knockdown as needed without losing buffs = OMG! I just crapped my pants!" -Evran
ARISTOCLES
Re: Uses for Scholarship
12/25/2010 11:58 AM CST
>> I don't know why, but the learning additional languages always makes me feel so good.
This would be a great role for scholarship, especially since there are several dictionaries in libraries across Kermoria and that a lot of little riddles, clues, side-adventures, in-jokes, etc include passages in other languages that are meant to be looked up and enjoyed. (I still love the time I spent translating the book in that particular library only to find that it was a cookie recipe)
Scholarship could tie directly into languages for several major roles.
I think any effort to break up languages regionally as oppposed to solely racially would be greatly beneficial. Common is almost exclusively spoken because the ten people who have been living in the same neighborhood of Ratha for the past 30 IG years have no other way of communicating in a group.
I think being able to learn other foreign languages should be exceptionally difficult and tied to a very high level of scholarship and increase in difficulty exponentially with each additional language learned; however, if you give everyone the one-time ability to select the languages of one province they are a citizen of, from the clerk, then it would allow an incentive for people to use languages other than common for their routine conversations.
I would even take this use for Scholarship a step further than is being requested. I'd find a way to incorporate more languages (and language skills) into the world.
I've logged over a decade in the military and have been stationed in interesting locations around the world during peacetime. There was something magical about walking around and seeing signs in languages I couldn't even begin to transliterate, let alone read. Nothing gives that warm-fuzzy of excitement of being overseas like seeing the Beit Al-Ahsleeha Abu or Hofbrauhaus.
What I would suggest is that language skills pay off in allowing a fluent character the ablity to read that language. Something like this was done in the Hollow Eve shop catering to the Elf Clans, but what I would recommend would be to add a mechanic that uses languages known and scholarship to read marked in-game text. The text would have to include around three versions associated. Failure, partial success, comprehension. Languages could also have a scholarship penalty. Racial tongue might be 100% scholarship, while common might only use 75% and provincial languages might be at 50%.
So, for the three, the following might be their looks in the Muspar'i Shopping District:
You also see an sturdy building with a sign on it.
> read sign
> l building
The building looks like a weapons shop.
Yeah, I wouldn't even dream of talking about what it would take to do something like that; however, I can guarantee you have a few linguistically talented folks who might be able to assist in an ALAE-like manner. Taking existing in-game texts (both in target-language and in English) and do a trio of translations for signs/texts/objects/etc to give to the GM running that particular area for final QC by the staff linguists and implementation.
- Aristron
This would be a great role for scholarship, especially since there are several dictionaries in libraries across Kermoria and that a lot of little riddles, clues, side-adventures, in-jokes, etc include passages in other languages that are meant to be looked up and enjoyed. (I still love the time I spent translating the book in that particular library only to find that it was a cookie recipe)
Scholarship could tie directly into languages for several major roles.
I think any effort to break up languages regionally as oppposed to solely racially would be greatly beneficial. Common is almost exclusively spoken because the ten people who have been living in the same neighborhood of Ratha for the past 30 IG years have no other way of communicating in a group.
I think being able to learn other foreign languages should be exceptionally difficult and tied to a very high level of scholarship and increase in difficulty exponentially with each additional language learned; however, if you give everyone the one-time ability to select the languages of one province they are a citizen of, from the clerk, then it would allow an incentive for people to use languages other than common for their routine conversations.
I would even take this use for Scholarship a step further than is being requested. I'd find a way to incorporate more languages (and language skills) into the world.
I've logged over a decade in the military and have been stationed in interesting locations around the world during peacetime. There was something magical about walking around and seeing signs in languages I couldn't even begin to transliterate, let alone read. Nothing gives that warm-fuzzy of excitement of being overseas like seeing the Beit Al-Ahsleeha Abu or Hofbrauhaus.
What I would suggest is that language skills pay off in allowing a fluent character the ablity to read that language. Something like this was done in the Hollow Eve shop catering to the Elf Clans, but what I would recommend would be to add a mechanic that uses languages known and scholarship to read marked in-game text. The text would have to include around three versions associated. Failure, partial success, comprehension. Languages could also have a scholarship penalty. Racial tongue might be 100% scholarship, while common might only use 75% and provincial languages might be at 50%.
So, for the three, the following might be their looks in the Muspar'i Shopping District:
You also see an sturdy building with a sign on it.
> read sign
| Non-Speaker | The sign says, "Beit Al-Asleeha Abu" |
| Speaker with Low Scholarship | The sign says, "Abu's House of something or other" |
| Speaker with Passing Scholarship | The sign says, "Abu's House of Weapons" |
> l building
The building looks like a weapons shop.
Yeah, I wouldn't even dream of talking about what it would take to do something like that; however, I can guarantee you have a few linguistically talented folks who might be able to assist in an ALAE-like manner. Taking existing in-game texts (both in target-language and in English) and do a trio of translations for signs/texts/objects/etc to give to the GM running that particular area for final QC by the staff linguists and implementation.
- Aristron
LATHOMAS641
Re: Uses for Scholarship
12/25/2010 12:15 PM CST
I think with that particular proposal there should also be a chance of translating things incorrectly. It'd be pretty amusing when you see a sign for Abu's House of Cheese.
I'd also like to still see the original language text, even if I could read it flawlessly.
I'd also like to still see the original language text, even if I could read it flawlessly.
ARISTOCLES
Re: Uses for Scholarship
12/25/2010 12:36 PM CST
>>I think with that particular proposal there should also be a chance of translating things incorrectly.
Absolutely. If I recall properly, the text that a non-Ilithic speaker gets in that shop in the spider is quite humorous and is rife with mistranslations.
I was only looking at a simple system with two pre-written translations and one original language text. It'd be easy to add a fourth for a little more gradient. The hard part would be to expect any type of natural language processor to take words your character knows and apply translations.
Low scholarship and a non-native known language might even yield a literal translation, which is pretty common. 'Home the Weapons Abu', for instance.
>> I'd also like to still see the original language text.
Absolutely. It'd be a shame if the more you 'know' a language meant the less you saw the hard work that went into to creating these languages.
Perhaps something like this:
> read sign
You use your knowledge of Ilithic to read, 'Jenna Al-Hamama Abu', as "Abu's Pigeon Paradise"
> read sign
You use your poor knowledge of Ilithic to read, 'Jenna Al-Hamama Abu', as "Paradise the bathroom Abu" (both words are exceptionally similar, pigeon and bathroom)
> read sign
Your lack of knowledge of the sign's language only lets you read, 'Jenna Al-Hamama Abu'.
Or, if that is just too much redundant text for common tasks, maybe break it into two commands. For example, looking only at the perspective of a speaker with sufficient scholarship:
> read sign
The sign says in Ilithic, "Abu's Pigeon Paradise."
> read sign native
The sign says, "Jenna Al-Hamama Abu."
- Aristron
Absolutely. If I recall properly, the text that a non-Ilithic speaker gets in that shop in the spider is quite humorous and is rife with mistranslations.
I was only looking at a simple system with two pre-written translations and one original language text. It'd be easy to add a fourth for a little more gradient. The hard part would be to expect any type of natural language processor to take words your character knows and apply translations.
Low scholarship and a non-native known language might even yield a literal translation, which is pretty common. 'Home the Weapons Abu', for instance.
>> I'd also like to still see the original language text.
Absolutely. It'd be a shame if the more you 'know' a language meant the less you saw the hard work that went into to creating these languages.
Perhaps something like this:
> read sign
You use your knowledge of Ilithic to read, 'Jenna Al-Hamama Abu', as "Abu's Pigeon Paradise"
> read sign
You use your poor knowledge of Ilithic to read, 'Jenna Al-Hamama Abu', as "Paradise the bathroom Abu" (both words are exceptionally similar, pigeon and bathroom)
> read sign
Your lack of knowledge of the sign's language only lets you read, 'Jenna Al-Hamama Abu'.
Or, if that is just too much redundant text for common tasks, maybe break it into two commands. For example, looking only at the perspective of a speaker with sufficient scholarship:
> read sign
The sign says in Ilithic, "Abu's Pigeon Paradise."
> read sign native
The sign says, "Jenna Al-Hamama Abu."
- Aristron
LATHOMAS641
Re: Uses for Scholarship
12/25/2010 01:19 PM CST
instead of read sign and read sign native I'd put the native part on look sign and then translation on read sign. perhaps give a hint that you could try to translate the sign.
or perhaps even a translate verb
or perhaps even a translate verb
KOUGEN
Re: Uses for Scholarship
12/25/2010 02:23 PM CST
>You use your knowledge of Ilithic to read, 'Jenna Al-Hamama Abu', as "Abu's Pigeon Paradise"
I never realized Ilithic was so similar to Arabic. =p
>I can guarantee you have a few linguistically talented folks who might be able to assist in an ALAE-like manner. Taking existing in-game texts (both in target-language and in English) and do a trio of translations for signs/texts/objects/etc to give to the GM running that particular area for final QC by the staff linguists and implementation.
Heck, I'd help with this.
~ Kougen
I never realized Ilithic was so similar to Arabic. =p
>I can guarantee you have a few linguistically talented folks who might be able to assist in an ALAE-like manner. Taking existing in-game texts (both in target-language and in English) and do a trio of translations for signs/texts/objects/etc to give to the GM running that particular area for final QC by the staff linguists and implementation.
Heck, I'd help with this.
~ Kougen
ARISTOCLES
Re: Uses for Scholarship
12/25/2010 02:25 PM CST
>> perhaps even a translate verb
For me, that'd just give it the feel of being a student of a foreign language, or a novice at it. It should feel more first nature than that.
But yeah, it that turns out to be the easiest implementation, then it certainly has merits.
<total digression that eventually gets to the Translate verb idea. I'm in self-imposed immobility in front of my computer due to too much food, so I have no qualms being long-winded, heh.>
Even an elaborate solution of dealing with non-custom text has myriad drawbacks on a non-custom client, text-based implementation. For instance, look at non-language verb communications. If I walked up to your Dwarf and said, "Ag flege aal." You'd look at me crosseyed, even though that's Haakish for "I skinned it." It might not be a commonplace scenario, but what if someone walked up to you and told you they copied down an inscription they read elsewhere and wanted to know what it meant, then said that aloud.
There are solutions, but none of them really work seamlessly with the interface. Even a straight word for word translation from the dictionary for you would be bad. My character is Aristron Karanea, from the Greek name of Socrates' father (with a Gerenshuge flair - taking on the meaning of sacred, but as a noun IIRC), and the Gerenshuge word for faithful. With that solution, for instance if you knew both Gerenshuge and Haakish, looking at me might yield: You see Father Sacred Faithful, Shrine Keeper of the Ancestor's Land. Instead of Father Aristron Karanea, Shrine Keeper of Forfedhdar.
IMHO, this would be the best place for a translate verb, to parse a block of text through the published lexicons and output the word for word translation. With success based on known language and a scholarship check (with noted penalties).
ie:
Wfale says to you, "I saw an inscription on an object someone asked me to sell, but I have no idea what it means. It says, "Gwor vir mate hot?"
> translate haakish "gwor vir mate hot"
You think briefly and recall that the words mean, " ? us eat when "
> "}wfale That's interesting. It just says, 'When are we going to eat?' Is some Dwarven carving aficionado trying to ask you out?
</digression>
- Aristron
For me, that'd just give it the feel of being a student of a foreign language, or a novice at it. It should feel more first nature than that.
But yeah, it that turns out to be the easiest implementation, then it certainly has merits.
<total digression that eventually gets to the Translate verb idea. I'm in self-imposed immobility in front of my computer due to too much food, so I have no qualms being long-winded, heh.>
Even an elaborate solution of dealing with non-custom text has myriad drawbacks on a non-custom client, text-based implementation. For instance, look at non-language verb communications. If I walked up to your Dwarf and said, "Ag flege aal." You'd look at me crosseyed, even though that's Haakish for "I skinned it." It might not be a commonplace scenario, but what if someone walked up to you and told you they copied down an inscription they read elsewhere and wanted to know what it meant, then said that aloud.
There are solutions, but none of them really work seamlessly with the interface. Even a straight word for word translation from the dictionary for you would be bad. My character is Aristron Karanea, from the Greek name of Socrates' father (with a Gerenshuge flair - taking on the meaning of sacred, but as a noun IIRC), and the Gerenshuge word for faithful. With that solution, for instance if you knew both Gerenshuge and Haakish, looking at me might yield: You see Father Sacred Faithful, Shrine Keeper of the Ancestor's Land. Instead of Father Aristron Karanea, Shrine Keeper of Forfedhdar.
IMHO, this would be the best place for a translate verb, to parse a block of text through the published lexicons and output the word for word translation. With success based on known language and a scholarship check (with noted penalties).
ie:
Wfale says to you, "I saw an inscription on an object someone asked me to sell, but I have no idea what it means. It says, "Gwor vir mate hot?"
> translate haakish "gwor vir mate hot"
You think briefly and recall that the words mean, " ? us eat when "
> "}wfale That's interesting. It just says, 'When are we going to eat?' Is some Dwarven carving aficionado trying to ask you out?
</digression>
- Aristron
