I figured I'd mention this since there's been talk of having left-over material (cloth, stacks, rocks and such) go into your STOW container, which I fully support, but there's a concern.
Stacks of bones are treated by the game as skins, meaning that they get put into bundles... including tied bundles, from which they can never be recovered. As a f2p, I must tie my bundles because otherwise I hit the item limit rather immediately. I've already lost a couple of stacks by forgetting to sell my bundle and then using STOW to put my stack away. So, if possible, please avoid making stacks auto-stow to our default skin container? I'd appreciate it.
The other issue I figured you should know about, and I think I put in a bug report for this a few weeks ago, is that items made from bone stacks are also being treated as skins by the game. Thankfully, there's something in place to prevent them getting tucked inside, but it's still messing with the STOW verb. Such as...
>tap ring
You tap a deer-bone toe ring that you are holding.
>appr ring
It appears that the toe ring can be worn.
The toe ring feels pretty light.
You are certain that the toe ring is worth exactly 375 Kronars.
Roundtime: 8 seconds.
R>stow ring
The toe ring will probably just damage the bundle and its contents. You should really only put skins, pelts, and the like in there.
If possible, it'd be great for whatever is causing that "probably just damage" message to fire to be expanded to include stacks.
I
"[A]ll PC necromancers are now redeemed good guys..." ~ GM Raesh
KUYKEND9
GRANTJ47
Re: Once a Skin, Always a Skin
05/10/2015 11:27 AM CDT
Since most people are not crafters, I think it should stay this way. What I suggest you do is change your STORE WINDOW option for skins to the container that you want to store your stack in. Then change your combat script so that you PUT <SKIN> IN BUNDLE.
Abison/Rystien
Abison/Rystien
KUYKEND9
Re: Once a Skin, Always a Skin
05/10/2015 01:46 PM CDT
>> Since most people are not crafters, I think it should stay this way.
I'm not understanding what you mean by this. If most people aren't crafters, why would changing where stacks go affect them? Are non-crafters collecting stacks for some reason?
I
"[A]ll PC necromancers are now redeemed good guys..." ~ GM Raesh
I'm not understanding what you mean by this. If most people aren't crafters, why would changing where stacks go affect them? Are non-crafters collecting stacks for some reason?
I
"[A]ll PC necromancers are now redeemed good guys..." ~ GM Raesh
ROBERTDH
Re: Once a Skin, Always a Skin
05/10/2015 02:31 PM CDT
I used to sometimes make bone stacks for the skinning experience and ... just for something to do.
>Forgive my snark, but welcome to the life of a warrior mage.
>Forgive my snark, but welcome to the life of a warrior mage.
GRANTJ47
Re: Once a Skin, Always a Skin
05/10/2015 03:18 PM CDT
>>I'm not understanding what you mean by this. If most people aren't crafters, why would changing where stacks go affect them? Are non-crafters collecting stacks for some reason?
I'm assuming that stacks are flagged as a skin. Just an assumption. That being said, I'm not sure exactly all the places are that you get "stacks." There might be a reason non-crafters have stacks. I understand your problem, and don't understand why you just don't fix the problem you are having with the suggestions I provided. You solution may screw up many people when there is a simple solution for yourself.
Abison/Rystien
I'm assuming that stacks are flagged as a skin. Just an assumption. That being said, I'm not sure exactly all the places are that you get "stacks." There might be a reason non-crafters have stacks. I understand your problem, and don't understand why you just don't fix the problem you are having with the suggestions I provided. You solution may screw up many people when there is a simple solution for yourself.
Abison/Rystien
KUYKEND9
Re: Once a Skin, Always a Skin
05/10/2015 03:54 PM CDT
>> I'm assuming that stacks are flagged as a skin. Just an assumption.
They are.
>> That being said, I'm not sure exactly all the places are that you get "stacks."
You can either purchase them from a crafting society or intentionally arrange a creature's corpse to produce bones instead of skins, which can then be converted into stacks. The resulting stacks have exclusively one purpose that I know of: crafting.
>> There might be a reason non-crafters have stacks.
If there is, I'd like to know about it.
>> I understand your problem,
Actually, it seems pretty clear that you don't. I'm not trying to be rude, by the way. It just is clear that you're not getting my concern, particularly because...
>> and don't understand why you just don't fix the problem you are having with the suggestions I provided. You solution may screw up many people when there is a simple solution for yourself.
... your suggested "fix" has to do with a combat script, and nothing I am talking about is related to combat, or any combat scripts I may use. This is exclusively related to STOW while crafting, and the proposed/planned update that will result in excess crafting materials being automatically stowed by the system in your designated STORE container. There's also the additional issue that items being crafted from bone stacks are still being seen, by the game at large, as "skins," despite being rings or masks or tailbands or whatever they are. Thankfully there's something in place keeping them from getting bundled, but that's a band-aid on a larger issue, which is that if the game thinks that they're skins, they could be adversely affected by other systems that interact with skins specifically, but haven't even been considered. This is akin to an issue some years ago where gweth stones were being treated as gem stones when you stowed them, but not when you tried to sell them, resulting in permanently broken tied gem pouches. That was apparently fixed, as they work correctly now.
So, in regards to this issue with stacks being treated as skins, I'll try to be a little more clear since apparently there are folks reading/adding to this conversation who aren't craft-savvy.
The issues with stacks being treated as skins are:
* Stacks, which may or may not have been purchased from a crafting society, are being bundled when the player attempts to STOW them. In the case of tied bundles, this results in the stacks being permanently destroyed and absorbed into the value of the bundle.
- This can be bypassed by not using STOW with stacks, which is a functional short-term solution, but doesn't address the larger issue, that non-skin items are making their way into bundles. (Unless this is intended, of course; a GM's input on this would help, since if this is supposed to be happening and I'm just failing to see why, then this in fact does not need fixing.)
* If the proposed crafting update occurs which will send excess material (cloth, stacks, etc) to a designated STORE container, and stacks continue to be recognized as skins by the game's STOW mechanic, this will result in any excess stacks during crafting being sent to a player's bundle, either tied or untied, and the player can not simply use PUT to bypass this, because it's an automatic mechanic that fires when the player CUTs the stack.
- This is more than simply an inconvenience, it would make crafting items from bone stacks so frustrating that it would cease to be a viable practice at all.
* Bone-crafted items are being treated as skins by the game, which is a Bad Thing(tm).
- As I mentioned above, this is problematic mostly because it could cause problems in systems we haven't even considered here.
I
"[A]ll PC necromancers are now redeemed good guys..." ~ GM Raesh
They are.
>> That being said, I'm not sure exactly all the places are that you get "stacks."
You can either purchase them from a crafting society or intentionally arrange a creature's corpse to produce bones instead of skins, which can then be converted into stacks. The resulting stacks have exclusively one purpose that I know of: crafting.
>> There might be a reason non-crafters have stacks.
If there is, I'd like to know about it.
>> I understand your problem,
Actually, it seems pretty clear that you don't. I'm not trying to be rude, by the way. It just is clear that you're not getting my concern, particularly because...
>> and don't understand why you just don't fix the problem you are having with the suggestions I provided. You solution may screw up many people when there is a simple solution for yourself.
... your suggested "fix" has to do with a combat script, and nothing I am talking about is related to combat, or any combat scripts I may use. This is exclusively related to STOW while crafting, and the proposed/planned update that will result in excess crafting materials being automatically stowed by the system in your designated STORE container. There's also the additional issue that items being crafted from bone stacks are still being seen, by the game at large, as "skins," despite being rings or masks or tailbands or whatever they are. Thankfully there's something in place keeping them from getting bundled, but that's a band-aid on a larger issue, which is that if the game thinks that they're skins, they could be adversely affected by other systems that interact with skins specifically, but haven't even been considered. This is akin to an issue some years ago where gweth stones were being treated as gem stones when you stowed them, but not when you tried to sell them, resulting in permanently broken tied gem pouches. That was apparently fixed, as they work correctly now.
So, in regards to this issue with stacks being treated as skins, I'll try to be a little more clear since apparently there are folks reading/adding to this conversation who aren't craft-savvy.
The issues with stacks being treated as skins are:
* Stacks, which may or may not have been purchased from a crafting society, are being bundled when the player attempts to STOW them. In the case of tied bundles, this results in the stacks being permanently destroyed and absorbed into the value of the bundle.
- This can be bypassed by not using STOW with stacks, which is a functional short-term solution, but doesn't address the larger issue, that non-skin items are making their way into bundles. (Unless this is intended, of course; a GM's input on this would help, since if this is supposed to be happening and I'm just failing to see why, then this in fact does not need fixing.)
* If the proposed crafting update occurs which will send excess material (cloth, stacks, etc) to a designated STORE container, and stacks continue to be recognized as skins by the game's STOW mechanic, this will result in any excess stacks during crafting being sent to a player's bundle, either tied or untied, and the player can not simply use PUT to bypass this, because it's an automatic mechanic that fires when the player CUTs the stack.
- This is more than simply an inconvenience, it would make crafting items from bone stacks so frustrating that it would cease to be a viable practice at all.
* Bone-crafted items are being treated as skins by the game, which is a Bad Thing(tm).
- As I mentioned above, this is problematic mostly because it could cause problems in systems we haven't even considered here.
I
"[A]ll PC necromancers are now redeemed good guys..." ~ GM Raesh
BADGOPHER
Re: Once a Skin, Always a Skin
05/10/2015 05:07 PM CDT
Do you have stow set to your bundle, by chance? I'm wondering if it's specific to stacks of bones, because when I stow pelts, they don't get auto bundled. The only time I auto bundle is when I skin something and my bundle is adjusted to accept new entries.
MCBRIDEJ
Re: Once a Skin, Always a Skin
05/11/2015 10:19 PM CDT
Bone stacks are a product of skinning. All of those things can go in bundles. This is intentional. If you are skinning something that only produces bones, having different mechanics just because they are bones seems pretty odd - especially if you are not a crafter. Set your skin STOW container to your backpack/rucksack/whatever. When skinning, items will still automagically get put into your worn bundle, if you have auto-bundling turned on. You can also use BUNDLE <item> when you want to specifically put a skinned item in your bundle.
>>If the proposed crafting update occurs which will send excess material (cloth, stacks, etc) to a designated STORE container, and stacks continue to be recognized as skins...
The excess material stowing will (does for forging) use your default container, not the STORE container for that type. Here is the the Announcement from Kodius for forging:
http://forums.play.net/forums/DragonRealms/Lore/GameMaster%20Announcements%20-%20Lore/thread/1677190?get_newest=true
- Player of Saracus
>>If the proposed crafting update occurs which will send excess material (cloth, stacks, etc) to a designated STORE container, and stacks continue to be recognized as skins...
The excess material stowing will (does for forging) use your default container, not the STORE container for that type. Here is the the Announcement from Kodius for forging:
http://forums.play.net/forums/DragonRealms/Lore/GameMaster%20Announcements%20-%20Lore/thread/1677190?get_newest=true
- Player of Saracus
SHAWN255
Combining stone
05/11/2015 10:35 PM CDT
Once you get around to some QoL improvements.. can you please fix it so that stone carvers, maybe with a technique?, can combine smaller pieces of stone back into larger rocks or boulders. It is the only crafting subset that doesn't have that ability.
Thanks in advance! :)
Thanks in advance! :)
DR-KODIUS
Re: Combining stone
05/12/2015 02:33 AM CDT
If this was even remotely feasible IRL it'd be easier for me to consider. I always felt it was a suitable drawback to working with stone.
Alchemy might hold a solution - but the problem is how to do it mechanically. Apply glue to stone. Apply glue to other stone. Stow glue. Combine stones... blegh. That is going to be annoying as all get out for people to manage.
I do plan to increase the payout on stone work orders, which may help compensate people for the difficulty in working with it.
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
Alchemy might hold a solution - but the problem is how to do it mechanically. Apply glue to stone. Apply glue to other stone. Stow glue. Combine stones... blegh. That is going to be annoying as all get out for people to manage.
I do plan to increase the payout on stone work orders, which may help compensate people for the difficulty in working with it.
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
SHAWN255
Re: Combining stone
05/12/2015 03:08 AM CDT
I would think this is one of those areas of the game that reality just doesn't need to fit in.. suspension of disbelief and all so that it isn't the one discipline that is shafted on material.
Of all the things in this game that have to make some compromise with reality in the greater goal of 'fun'.. this just seems like an arbitrary line in the sand for no real gain.. that also inconveniences one entire subset of crafting.
I really do get what you are saying.. and I love how attentive to detail you are.. it is part of what makes crafting neat and fun. Buuuut.. this is one of those areas that it is blatantly different than every other single crafting profession.. and there really isn't any gain for the limitation. You just end up with a lot of sling ammo or pebbles that sit forever.
I can't imagine anyone complaining about just using COMBINE... without all the glue drudgery. Some things really don't need to be perfectly realistic in all aspects.
Of all the things in this game that have to make some compromise with reality in the greater goal of 'fun'.. this just seems like an arbitrary line in the sand for no real gain.. that also inconveniences one entire subset of crafting.
I really do get what you are saying.. and I love how attentive to detail you are.. it is part of what makes crafting neat and fun. Buuuut.. this is one of those areas that it is blatantly different than every other single crafting profession.. and there really isn't any gain for the limitation. You just end up with a lot of sling ammo or pebbles that sit forever.
I can't imagine anyone complaining about just using COMBINE... without all the glue drudgery. Some things really don't need to be perfectly realistic in all aspects.
SHAWN255
Re: Combining stone
05/12/2015 03:09 AM CDT
And with that said.. I would still take the glue option over no option.
BADGOPHER
Re: Combining stone
05/12/2015 07:11 AM CDT
>If this was even remotely feasible IRL it'd be easier for me to consider. I always felt it was a suitable drawback to working with stone.
Neither are fireballs, creation of mud golems, teleportation, or the resurrection of the hours long dead. Real life is never a compelling argument against playability when so much of the game isn't even possible in real life.
>Alchemy might hold a solution - but the problem is how to do it mechanically. Apply glue to stone. Apply glue to other stone. Stow glue. Combine stones... blegh. That is going to be annoying as all get out for people to manage.
This doesn't seem as onerous as melting down ingots, honestly. Give people a small vial of aqua regia based glue. The solvent in the glue being aqua regia, it dissolves a fractional amount of the material it is applied to, bonding the two seamlessly once it evaporates.
Or just give us alchemical crucibles. Works like a regular crucible, but alchemy is involved, so it fuses stone.
Neither are fireballs, creation of mud golems, teleportation, or the resurrection of the hours long dead. Real life is never a compelling argument against playability when so much of the game isn't even possible in real life.
>Alchemy might hold a solution - but the problem is how to do it mechanically. Apply glue to stone. Apply glue to other stone. Stow glue. Combine stones... blegh. That is going to be annoying as all get out for people to manage.
This doesn't seem as onerous as melting down ingots, honestly. Give people a small vial of aqua regia based glue. The solvent in the glue being aqua regia, it dissolves a fractional amount of the material it is applied to, bonding the two seamlessly once it evaporates.
Or just give us alchemical crucibles. Works like a regular crucible, but alchemy is involved, so it fuses stone.
KUYKEND9
Re: Once a Skin, Always a Skin
05/12/2015 09:44 AM CDT
>> If you are skinning something that only produces bones, having different mechanics just because they are bones seems pretty odd - especially if you are not a crafter.
What creatures do this? I wasn't aware that any creature in the game had the default setting to produce craftable bone stacks. And in fact, I'm about 99% sure that they can't, since you have to bleach the bones after collecting them. I've tried to state this several times already, so I'll be bluntly clear this time: this has nothing to do with hunting, or skinning creatures you hunt. It only has to do with craftable bone stacks, which can only be obtained through purchase or through a multi-step, intentional process involving a non-default part collected from a creature. I want my skins to go to my bundle, and I want your skins to go to your bundle as well, but I also want crafting materials (and their items they are crafted into) to not be treated as skins by the game. I'm really at a loss as to why this is so hard to understand.
>> The excess material stowing will (does for forging) use your default container, not the STORE container for that type.
It does depend how this is coded, and as we don't have access to that information, I thought it was a good idea to mention it, to err on the side of caution. If it's calling the STOW verb before checking the profile of the item, then it would end up going into whichever container that profile is set to go, which would be your default container in the case of ingots. If it's calling the default stow option directly, then you are correct. Again, neither of us knows which it is, so I wanted to bring it to GM attention to prevent an issue down the line.
>> If this was even remotely feasible IRL it'd be easier for me to consider.
>> I would think this is one of those areas of the game that reality just doesn't need to fit in.
Stop! You're both right. :-)
>inv held
In your right hand, you are carrying an alabaster stone, and in your left hand, you are carrying an alabaster pebble.
>combine stone
You combine your alabaster pieces together.
>inv held
In your right hand, you are carrying some alabaster pieces.
>look pieces
You examine the alabaster pieces and see that they contain an alabaster stone and an alabaster pebble.
Effectively make it behave like a stack, with each article having a value (pebble=1, stone=2, and so on) and when you need to make an item that requires a volume of 3 (using these imaginary numbers I'm coming up with on the fly) then you just need pieces that add up to that value. You can at that point either just do a hand-wavy thing where you assume that you're combining them as part of the crafting process, or add a step when using pieces (as opposed to one solid piece) that involves the glue mentioned above, and treat it similar to adding padding or such (assemble <item> with glue). I do understand that this suggestion would require some rewriting of existing code, so I wouldn't expect it any time soon, if you do like it and want to implement it.
[Type INVENTORY HELP for more options]
I
"[A]ll PC necromancers are now redeemed good guys..." ~ GM Raesh
What creatures do this? I wasn't aware that any creature in the game had the default setting to produce craftable bone stacks. And in fact, I'm about 99% sure that they can't, since you have to bleach the bones after collecting them. I've tried to state this several times already, so I'll be bluntly clear this time: this has nothing to do with hunting, or skinning creatures you hunt. It only has to do with craftable bone stacks, which can only be obtained through purchase or through a multi-step, intentional process involving a non-default part collected from a creature. I want my skins to go to my bundle, and I want your skins to go to your bundle as well, but I also want crafting materials (and their items they are crafted into) to not be treated as skins by the game. I'm really at a loss as to why this is so hard to understand.
>> The excess material stowing will (does for forging) use your default container, not the STORE container for that type.
It does depend how this is coded, and as we don't have access to that information, I thought it was a good idea to mention it, to err on the side of caution. If it's calling the STOW verb before checking the profile of the item, then it would end up going into whichever container that profile is set to go, which would be your default container in the case of ingots. If it's calling the default stow option directly, then you are correct. Again, neither of us knows which it is, so I wanted to bring it to GM attention to prevent an issue down the line.
>> If this was even remotely feasible IRL it'd be easier for me to consider.
>> I would think this is one of those areas of the game that reality just doesn't need to fit in.
Stop! You're both right. :-)
>inv held
In your right hand, you are carrying an alabaster stone, and in your left hand, you are carrying an alabaster pebble.
>combine stone
You combine your alabaster pieces together.
>inv held
In your right hand, you are carrying some alabaster pieces.
>look pieces
You examine the alabaster pieces and see that they contain an alabaster stone and an alabaster pebble.
Effectively make it behave like a stack, with each article having a value (pebble=1, stone=2, and so on) and when you need to make an item that requires a volume of 3 (using these imaginary numbers I'm coming up with on the fly) then you just need pieces that add up to that value. You can at that point either just do a hand-wavy thing where you assume that you're combining them as part of the crafting process, or add a step when using pieces (as opposed to one solid piece) that involves the glue mentioned above, and treat it similar to adding padding or such (assemble <item> with glue). I do understand that this suggestion would require some rewriting of existing code, so I wouldn't expect it any time soon, if you do like it and want to implement it.
[Type INVENTORY HELP for more options]
I
"[A]ll PC necromancers are now redeemed good guys..." ~ GM Raesh
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Combining stone
05/12/2015 10:40 AM CDT
>>If this was even remotely feasible IRL it'd be easier for me to consider. I always felt it was a suitable drawback to working with stone.
Senci aside, I don't think there's a suitable allure to using stone (vs bone) to justify that kind of drawback.
Maybe instead of letting people combine stones, they can bundle/combine deeds? I assume it'll be mechanically harder, but I can totally see a society going "We'd totally be cool with taking your four small rocks and giving you a boulder".
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
Senci aside, I don't think there's a suitable allure to using stone (vs bone) to justify that kind of drawback.
Maybe instead of letting people combine stones, they can bundle/combine deeds? I assume it'll be mechanically harder, but I can totally see a society going "We'd totally be cool with taking your four small rocks and giving you a boulder".
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
MCBRIDEJ
Re: Once a Skin, Always a Skin
05/12/2015 11:41 AM CDT
>>this has nothing to do with hunting, or skinning creatures you hunt
That's what we've all been pointing out to you. It has everything to do with hunting and skinning since they are currently connected. The material you are working with comes from hunting and skinning. I know players who LOVE that you can put cleaned bones in bundles. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean everyone else doesn't like it either.
We all understand what you are asking. We are also pointing out to you that YOU can make one small settings change and this isn't an issue for you any longer. Insulting us and refusing to look at other options gets you nowhere.
That's what we've all been pointing out to you. It has everything to do with hunting and skinning since they are currently connected. The material you are working with comes from hunting and skinning. I know players who LOVE that you can put cleaned bones in bundles. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean everyone else doesn't like it either.
We all understand what you are asking. We are also pointing out to you that YOU can make one small settings change and this isn't an issue for you any longer. Insulting us and refusing to look at other options gets you nowhere.
KUYKEND9
Re: Once a Skin, Always a Skin
05/12/2015 02:10 PM CDT
>> It has everything to do with hunting and skinning since they are currently connected.
It really doesn't; you go hunting, you kill a creature, you arrange it to produce bones, you skin it, you leave the hunting area (this is where it ceases to be about hunting), you bleach the bones, converting them into "a <creature>-bone stack", and then you use the stack for crafting. It stops being about hunting the moment you bleach the bones; practically speaking, the act of bleaching should kill the exist that is the bones and create a new one of a different profile that is the stack, but I'm suspecting that it's just modifying it instead, resulting in it remaining a "skin" from the perspective of the game. It further appears that when you carve a stack into a ring, for example, that it again is not killing/creating, it's modifying the stack (which is still a skin) and making it appear to be a ring, which is further problematic because the game still thinks, at least in part, that it's a skin. There are two ways to resolve this: find every single system that interacts with skins and add an exception for every single item that might be made from a skin, or make the game kill/create an exist of a different profile. At the very least, despite any other argument, this must occur no later than the crafting phase to prevent unforeseen bugs from cropping up.
>> The material you are working with comes from hunting and skinning.
So does the leather mask my character's wearing. That doesn't mean that I should be able to stuff that mask into a bundle. The point here is that at some point it ceases to be "a skin" in terms of game mechanics; this point can not be reasonably debated. The only question is when that point should occur: at the bleaching step, or the crafting step? I think the former makes a lot of sense, because unlike any other container in the game I know of, a bundle has the capacity to destroy any item you put into it (in the case that the bundle is tied).
>> I know players who LOVE that you can put cleaned bones in bundles. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean everyone else doesn't like it either.
The assumption that this is about my personal preference is inaccurate, and my (or anyone's) personal preference is irrelevant. Still, I'd encourage you to direct these players you claim to know to this thread; I'm curious what advantage putting bleached bone stacks into a bundle has over putting them into a default stow container, or a crafting material/tool container if/when that is introduced. Currently I can think of no mechanical advantage to bones going into a bundle over a pack (for example) but can think of, and have pointed out several times, the mechanical disadvantage.
>> We are also pointing out to you that YOU can make one small settings change and this isn't an issue for you any longer.
I understand and have made this adjustment, but this isn't about me making a request for my own personal convenience, which seems to be the communicative disconnect. There is, as I've noted several times, a mechanical concern at the code-level with objects which are not skins that are being treated as skins, and as a general rule this is not good.
I
"[A]ll PC necromancers are now redeemed good guys..." ~ GM Raesh
It really doesn't; you go hunting, you kill a creature, you arrange it to produce bones, you skin it, you leave the hunting area (this is where it ceases to be about hunting), you bleach the bones, converting them into "a <creature>-bone stack", and then you use the stack for crafting. It stops being about hunting the moment you bleach the bones; practically speaking, the act of bleaching should kill the exist that is the bones and create a new one of a different profile that is the stack, but I'm suspecting that it's just modifying it instead, resulting in it remaining a "skin" from the perspective of the game. It further appears that when you carve a stack into a ring, for example, that it again is not killing/creating, it's modifying the stack (which is still a skin) and making it appear to be a ring, which is further problematic because the game still thinks, at least in part, that it's a skin. There are two ways to resolve this: find every single system that interacts with skins and add an exception for every single item that might be made from a skin, or make the game kill/create an exist of a different profile. At the very least, despite any other argument, this must occur no later than the crafting phase to prevent unforeseen bugs from cropping up.
>> The material you are working with comes from hunting and skinning.
So does the leather mask my character's wearing. That doesn't mean that I should be able to stuff that mask into a bundle. The point here is that at some point it ceases to be "a skin" in terms of game mechanics; this point can not be reasonably debated. The only question is when that point should occur: at the bleaching step, or the crafting step? I think the former makes a lot of sense, because unlike any other container in the game I know of, a bundle has the capacity to destroy any item you put into it (in the case that the bundle is tied).
>> I know players who LOVE that you can put cleaned bones in bundles. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean everyone else doesn't like it either.
The assumption that this is about my personal preference is inaccurate, and my (or anyone's) personal preference is irrelevant. Still, I'd encourage you to direct these players you claim to know to this thread; I'm curious what advantage putting bleached bone stacks into a bundle has over putting them into a default stow container, or a crafting material/tool container if/when that is introduced. Currently I can think of no mechanical advantage to bones going into a bundle over a pack (for example) but can think of, and have pointed out several times, the mechanical disadvantage.
>> We are also pointing out to you that YOU can make one small settings change and this isn't an issue for you any longer.
I understand and have made this adjustment, but this isn't about me making a request for my own personal convenience, which seems to be the communicative disconnect. There is, as I've noted several times, a mechanical concern at the code-level with objects which are not skins that are being treated as skins, and as a general rule this is not good.
I
"[A]ll PC necromancers are now redeemed good guys..." ~ GM Raesh
MCBRIDEJ
Re: Once a Skin, Always a Skin
05/12/2015 03:09 PM CDT
Insulting me and calling me a liar is pretty immature. Good luck in life.
KUYKEND9
Re: Once a Skin, Always a Skin
05/12/2015 04:07 PM CDT
>> Insulting me and calling me a liar is pretty immature. Good luck in life.
I didn't do either of those things.
I
"[A]ll PC necromancers are now redeemed good guys..." ~ GM Raesh
I didn't do either of those things.
I
"[A]ll PC necromancers are now redeemed good guys..." ~ GM Raesh
MOD-ANEKA
Re: **NUDGE** Once a Skin, Always a Skin
05/12/2015 04:46 PM CDT
Please remember your posts should be about the topic at hand, and not about other posters. Don't make me get my carving tools out on this thread.
Thank you.
Aneka
DragonRealms Board Monitor
If you have any questions or comments, please contact me at MOD-Aneka@play.net, Senior Board Monitor Helje at DR-Helje@play.net, or Message Board Supervisor Annwyl DR-Annwyl@play.net.
Thank you.
Aneka
DragonRealms Board Monitor
If you have any questions or comments, please contact me at MOD-Aneka@play.net, Senior Board Monitor Helje at DR-Helje@play.net, or Message Board Supervisor Annwyl DR-Annwyl@play.net.
VOLCANUS
Re: Combining stone
05/12/2015 04:47 PM CDT
> Alchemy might hold a solution - but the problem is how to do it mechanically. Apply glue to stone. Apply glue to other stone. Stow glue. Combine stones... blegh. That is going to be annoying as all get out for people to manage.
What about enchanting? A gravity salve. Rub it on a stone, combine it, get a message about the stone pulling the other stone, warping, and becoming a new (larger) stone.
GALLAHAN
Re: Once a Skin, Always a Skin
05/12/2015 07:29 PM CDT
One option is, don't have your bundle be your default stow container for skins/bones.
When you skin things while hunting, if your bundle is adjusted to accept hides they will go there automatically anyway. It doesn't use stow.
My default container for skins is a lootsack that I use for raw materials I want to craft with, but everything I get from hunting goes to my bundle right as I skin it.
When you skin things while hunting, if your bundle is adjusted to accept hides they will go there automatically anyway. It doesn't use stow.
My default container for skins is a lootsack that I use for raw materials I want to craft with, but everything I get from hunting goes to my bundle right as I skin it.
CLEARLEAF
Re: Once a Skin, Always a Skin
05/12/2015 07:38 PM CDT
>I'm curious what advantage putting bleached bone stacks into a bundle has over putting them into a default stow container, or a crafting material/tool container if/when that is introduced
I don't deal with bone stacks really, but I DO craft leather items fairly often and find being able to put crafted items into a bundle to be pretty handy. Main use is when I'm running out of room in my main pack (and when crafting, especially large items like leathers, this can happen quickly) I can throw a few completed sets of leathers into my bundle - which, much like a weapon strap, doesn't have the dimension-based restrictions that containers have - until such time I get back into town to ask for a workorder. Or whatever.
I don't deal with bone stacks really, but I DO craft leather items fairly often and find being able to put crafted items into a bundle to be pretty handy. Main use is when I'm running out of room in my main pack (and when crafting, especially large items like leathers, this can happen quickly) I can throw a few completed sets of leathers into my bundle - which, much like a weapon strap, doesn't have the dimension-based restrictions that containers have - until such time I get back into town to ask for a workorder. Or whatever.
KUYKEND9
Re: Once a Skin, Always a Skin
05/12/2015 10:39 PM CDT
>> I don't deal with bone stacks really, but I DO craft leather items fairly often and find being able to put crafted items into a bundle to be pretty handy. Main use is when I'm running out of room in my main pack (and when crafting, especially large items like leathers, this can happen quickly) I can throw a few completed sets of leathers into my bundle - which, much like a weapon strap, doesn't have the dimension-based restrictions that containers have - until such time I get back into town to ask for a workorder. Or whatever.
Okay. I wasn't aware of this, since I was focused just in carving and hadn't tried it yet with tailored materials, but this means that completed crafted items are being placed into bundles. I would really love to hear from a GM regarding whether this is working as intended, because I suspect that it isn't. The fact that there is a mechanism keeping certain crafted items out of bundles makes me expect that all finished craft items are not supposed to be going into bundles, which I now realize isn't the case.
I
"[A]ll PC necromancers are now redeemed good guys..." ~ GM Raesh
Okay. I wasn't aware of this, since I was focused just in carving and hadn't tried it yet with tailored materials, but this means that completed crafted items are being placed into bundles. I would really love to hear from a GM regarding whether this is working as intended, because I suspect that it isn't. The fact that there is a mechanism keeping certain crafted items out of bundles makes me expect that all finished craft items are not supposed to be going into bundles, which I now realize isn't the case.
I
"[A]ll PC necromancers are now redeemed good guys..." ~ GM Raesh
CLEARLEAF
Re: Once a Skin, Always a Skin
05/13/2015 09:05 AM CDT
You know never mind that, maybe I'm confused. Could have sworn I used to put leathers in there but I'm trying to stick gloves in and such and its not working. Maybe I was just thinking of large stacks of leather. Sorry. Still handy, though.
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Once a Skin, Always a Skin
05/13/2015 09:49 AM CDT
>>I know players who LOVE that you can put cleaned bones in bundles.
Any reason why they prefer this in particular?
I guess I find it weird that bone stacks stay labeled as a "skin", because ingots stop being labeled as a "gem".
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
Any reason why they prefer this in particular?
I guess I find it weird that bone stacks stay labeled as a "skin", because ingots stop being labeled as a "gem".
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
KUYKEND9
Re: Once a Skin, Always a Skin
05/13/2015 10:40 AM CDT
>> I guess I find it weird that bone stacks stay labeled as a "skin", because ingots stop being labeled as a "gem".
Kinda my entire point, right there.
I
"[A]ll PC necromancers are now redeemed good guys..." ~ GM Raesh
Kinda my entire point, right there.
I
"[A]ll PC necromancers are now redeemed good guys..." ~ GM Raesh
MCBRIDEJ
Re: Once a Skin, Always a Skin
05/13/2015 05:54 PM CDT
>> Any reason why they prefer this in particular?
When you are cleaning a large number of bones or hides it is very convenient to keep all of them in the same "container". Just looking at the material from the Society - a stack of 100 wolf bones is 300 stones. A stack of cougar-pelt leather weighs 400 stones. Your typical 1500 stone backpack (that is already full of junk - at least mine is) fills up pretty fast at that rate. I don't think this really applies to your normal work-order scenario, though when you're tanning/cleaning full bundles of hides/bones this is a life saver. When working with work-orders I typically exclusively use deeds.
I think blocking the ability to put stacks of bones/leather into a tied bundle would be awesome, that way you don't lose your stuff. I also think keeping the ability to put stacks of bone/leather into an untied bundle is also awesome.
I don't run around with a bundle full of leather/bones very often (just when I'm doing the aforementioned tanning/cleaning), though my friend does. That's just his style - he likes to keep all of those materials in that "container".
When you are cleaning a large number of bones or hides it is very convenient to keep all of them in the same "container". Just looking at the material from the Society - a stack of 100 wolf bones is 300 stones. A stack of cougar-pelt leather weighs 400 stones. Your typical 1500 stone backpack (that is already full of junk - at least mine is) fills up pretty fast at that rate. I don't think this really applies to your normal work-order scenario, though when you're tanning/cleaning full bundles of hides/bones this is a life saver. When working with work-orders I typically exclusively use deeds.
I think blocking the ability to put stacks of bones/leather into a tied bundle would be awesome, that way you don't lose your stuff. I also think keeping the ability to put stacks of bone/leather into an untied bundle is also awesome.
I don't run around with a bundle full of leather/bones very often (just when I'm doing the aforementioned tanning/cleaning), though my friend does. That's just his style - he likes to keep all of those materials in that "container".
AJATHAER151
Re: Once a Skin, Always a Skin
05/14/2015 10:02 AM CDT
the bundles are very important for tanned skins and bleached bones cause it gives you "the only thing in the game that can hold" 200 bleaching bones while they cure/Leather cures. If you take that away pretty much take away the only QoL that outfitters / engineers have.
if you don't want your bones to go into a bundle type this in game "store skin in backpack" then for anything to go into your bundle you MUST type "bundle skin/bone/pelt/hide"
thread is done carry on nothing here needs changed.
Deadly force, is the force which a person uses, causing—or that a person knows, or should know, would create a substantial risk of causing—death or serious bodily harm. Deadly Force is justified only under conditions of extreme necessity as a last resort,
if you don't want your bones to go into a bundle type this in game "store skin in backpack" then for anything to go into your bundle you MUST type "bundle skin/bone/pelt/hide"
thread is done carry on nothing here needs changed.
Deadly force, is the force which a person uses, causing—or that a person knows, or should know, would create a substantial risk of causing—death or serious bodily harm. Deadly Force is justified only under conditions of extreme necessity as a last resort,
DUNTS2
Re: Once a Skin, Always a Skin
05/14/2015 02:20 PM CDT
Just my two kronar, but I also find it frustrating that both freshly-collected bones/hides are flagged the same as cleaned and cured bone stacks and leather. I've lost stacks a few times because of this, and while I'd still like to be able to bundle up bleaching/drying stacks and leather, I'd rather that bone stacks and finished leather not be treated the same as freshly collected pieces in terms of going into bundles.
For some reason you just can't stop thinking about glarmencouplers.
For some reason you just can't stop thinking about glarmencouplers.
NINEVAH1
Re: Once a Skin, Always a Skin
05/14/2015 08:23 PM CDT
I like being able to put my cleaned bones/skins in a bundle while I wait for them to cure.
