Previous
Thought I'd go ahead and post the maul and the shard ammo so folks can see how senci appraises out (both masterfully crafted).
A senci maul is a two-handed blunt melee-ranged weapon.
A senci maul trains the two-handed blunt skill.
You are certain that it could do:
severe (13/26) puncture damage
low (3/26) slice damage
demolishing impact damage
The maul is perfectly (17/17) designed for improving the force of your attacks.
You are certain that the maul is terribly (1/17) balanced and is incredibly (14/17) suited to gaining extra attack power from your strength.
You are certain that the maul is of average construction (9/18), and is in pristine condition (98-100%).
You are certain that the maul weighs exactly 136 stones.
You get some senci stone shards from inside your haversack.
> app shards
You are certain that it could do:
no (0/26) puncture damage
somewhat heavy (8/26) slice damage
great (11/26) impact damage
The stone shards is poorly (3/17) designed for improving the force of your attacks.
You are certain that the stone shards are of average construction (9/18), and are in pristine condition (98-100%).
Merrila
RETIREDMAJ
DREAMWEAVER
Re: Senci Maul and Shards
07/06/2014 03:07 AM CDT
I've updated everything Senci for weapons (except for a few inferior ammo types) at Elanthipedia.
The maul, as seen above, has an issue with the known scale for weapon appraisals. As soon as the experts figure out where Demolishing goes, I'm sure that will be reflected at Elanthipedia.
Carving References:
https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Carving_Products#Weaponry
~D
- - -
~Dreamheart Delaevan Forestwolf
Singing since before the Guild was restored.
The maul, as seen above, has an issue with the known scale for weapon appraisals. As soon as the experts figure out where Demolishing goes, I'm sure that will be reflected at Elanthipedia.
Carving References:
https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Carving_Products#Weaponry
~D
- - -
~Dreamheart Delaevan Forestwolf
Singing since before the Guild was restored.
DR-KODIUS
Re: Senci Maul and Shards
07/06/2014 03:48 AM CDT
I've spent the past few hours trying to figure out why the senci items are so much better than weighted Tyrium. Well it turns out a few things are wrong. For one, I forgot that at some point I redid the stone weapon templates to not be quite so terrible. This is why I believed the 110 hardness was necessary for them to come out reasonably well. Anyhow, that is not the big problem.
The big problem is they are a density 9 weapon and a bug was allowing the damage to increase passed the density cap. I would like to modify them to properly have a density of 6 as was originally intended. They'll still be 10 hardness better than Tyrium at that weight, but won't be quite so insanely overpowered.
Would everyone be OK if I adjusted the code to automatically adjust the items? Alternatively, we can probably setup some kind of item exchange if the adjustment means you would have taken something else. Please let me know.
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
The big problem is they are a density 9 weapon and a bug was allowing the damage to increase passed the density cap. I would like to modify them to properly have a density of 6 as was originally intended. They'll still be 10 hardness better than Tyrium at that weight, but won't be quite so insanely overpowered.
Would everyone be OK if I adjusted the code to automatically adjust the items? Alternatively, we can probably setup some kind of item exchange if the adjustment means you would have taken something else. Please let me know.
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Senci Maul and Shards
07/06/2014 04:37 AM CDT
>>The big problem is they are a density 9 weapon and a bug was allowing the damage to increase passed the density cap.
1) Oh boo
2) I know that when people were making crazy haralun things in combat 2.0, the density cap was put in and we were told it would be looked at again when 3.0 happened, since that would be a time where fatigue was a whole new kind of situation and it might not actually be awesome to have something insanely heavy because it would tire you out rather fast. Could that conversation happen now as a whole, which in turn might result in having the cap removed and render the whole situation moot?
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
1) Oh boo
2) I know that when people were making crazy haralun things in combat 2.0, the density cap was put in and we were told it would be looked at again when 3.0 happened, since that would be a time where fatigue was a whole new kind of situation and it might not actually be awesome to have something insanely heavy because it would tire you out rather fast. Could that conversation happen now as a whole, which in turn might result in having the cap removed and render the whole situation moot?
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
JARAGONA
Re: Senci Maul and Shards
07/06/2014 08:06 AM CDT
I wait for posts like this to do anything with materials because I am always concerned this will happen. I really wish new materials would be thoroughly tested before being released, because nothing is a bigger buzzkill (in this game) than making something and being totally in awe, only to have it taken away and made lesser. For the record, I have done nothing with my senci boulder, so I have no current horse in this race, but the outcome may heavily affect what I plan on doing with my boulder.
Another thing, there needs to be something special about stone carving to make it worthwhile. You can't balance it. You can't affect the density. You can't use all the pieces of it well. You can't reclaim it. It's a very rigid system. Making crazy blunts actually does not seem over-the-top to me.
It would be a good idea, going forward, to not be so all over the place with commitments to the point where things are not monitored in such a way that yield customer service that is consistently disappointing when it comes to materials in this game.
"Brace yourselves, Squanto is going to bleh blah fart fart bleh.." -the player of the character formerly known as Pureblade
Another thing, there needs to be something special about stone carving to make it worthwhile. You can't balance it. You can't affect the density. You can't use all the pieces of it well. You can't reclaim it. It's a very rigid system. Making crazy blunts actually does not seem over-the-top to me.
It would be a good idea, going forward, to not be so all over the place with commitments to the point where things are not monitored in such a way that yield customer service that is consistently disappointing when it comes to materials in this game.
"Brace yourselves, Squanto is going to bleh blah fart fart bleh.." -the player of the character formerly known as Pureblade
CARAAMON
Re: Senci Maul and Shards
07/06/2014 09:36 AM CDT
<sigh>
I really liked my maul, but you have to do what's best for the game.
Weapons for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
I really liked my maul, but you have to do what's best for the game.
Weapons for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
CAPPIAM
Re: Senci Maul and Shards
07/06/2014 10:25 AM CDT
You'll get a lot fewer complaints and angry players if 10 minutes were spent to make some test weapons/armor with a material. You know, before throwing them over the wall for us to work with and THEN deciding they are too good and need to be nerfed. I understand the GMs are virtually unpaid, and overworked, but
I understand the GMs are virtually unpaid, and overworked, but this is unfortunately an ongoing theme that's happened at least three times I can remember with crafting. It takes literally minutes to check something simple like "Does the material make something too 'powerful'?", while it takes hours/days to deal with annoyed furious players.
I'm not saying I expect something perfect. Quite the contrary, I'm sure there will be bugs. Still, I think it's fair to expect people to learn from their past mistakes. This happened with metals, but lets say we that slide. Now we get bones and once we have decent bones to work with, a few simple carves were done with sickle bone, and fey bone and we're told they are making weapons too good. So carving wasn't checked fully, but there were a lot of new materials during the HE fest that were added. So lets say we give that a pass. Now we have senci, one of only two new materials added. All it would have taken is creating a couple weapons out of senci, and we could have avoided this backlash.
Or how about a different option, we could have gone with the old standby of working as intended, then just discontinued the senci as a prize from the quest(Calling it a first 30 runs prize), and replace it with a new stone with the proper stats.
I understand the GMs are virtually unpaid, and overworked, but this is unfortunately an ongoing theme that's happened at least three times I can remember with crafting. It takes literally minutes to check something simple like "Does the material make something too 'powerful'?", while it takes hours/days to deal with annoyed furious players.
I'm not saying I expect something perfect. Quite the contrary, I'm sure there will be bugs. Still, I think it's fair to expect people to learn from their past mistakes. This happened with metals, but lets say we that slide. Now we get bones and once we have decent bones to work with, a few simple carves were done with sickle bone, and fey bone and we're told they are making weapons too good. So carving wasn't checked fully, but there were a lot of new materials during the HE fest that were added. So lets say we give that a pass. Now we have senci, one of only two new materials added. All it would have taken is creating a couple weapons out of senci, and we could have avoided this backlash.
Or how about a different option, we could have gone with the old standby of working as intended, then just discontinued the senci as a prize from the quest(Calling it a first 30 runs prize), and replace it with a new stone with the proper stats.
HERRINC
Re: Senci Maul and Shards
07/06/2014 10:40 AM CDT
Going to have to agree with Squanto on this one, as far as the rigidity of the stone carving system and how much of a buzzkill this is.
I would also like to know why is it that you insist that metal weapons be the single viable option in DragonRealms? Bone and stone weapons are garbage, with almost no exception, when you compare them to their metal counterparts.
Oh, and I would like to comment that the argument that 'bone and stone weapons will be more enchantable in the system that may or may not be released in the next 5 years' is not a sufficient argument to justify gimping every single bone and stone weapon.
I seriously don't see a problem with a few good weapons existing. Lets be honest for a second. Compared to edged weapons, blunt weapons are crappy. Now there are some good blunt weapons out there. OH NO! BETTER NERF THEM.
I wish I could say that I was surprised by this move. I had a nice weapon made for myself, something I was excited to own. Something that felt worth the time and money spent on the quest. I should have known better.
I would also like to know why is it that you insist that metal weapons be the single viable option in DragonRealms? Bone and stone weapons are garbage, with almost no exception, when you compare them to their metal counterparts.
Oh, and I would like to comment that the argument that 'bone and stone weapons will be more enchantable in the system that may or may not be released in the next 5 years' is not a sufficient argument to justify gimping every single bone and stone weapon.
I seriously don't see a problem with a few good weapons existing. Lets be honest for a second. Compared to edged weapons, blunt weapons are crappy. Now there are some good blunt weapons out there. OH NO! BETTER NERF THEM.
I wish I could say that I was surprised by this move. I had a nice weapon made for myself, something I was excited to own. Something that felt worth the time and money spent on the quest. I should have known better.
RETIREDMAJ
Re: Senci Maul and Shards
07/06/2014 11:20 AM CDT
<Would everyone be OK if I adjusted the code to automatically adjust the items? Alternatively, we can probably setup some kind of item exchange if the adjustment means you would have taken something else. Please let me know.>
As one of the carvers of the new Senci weapons I would like to have my say on this as well. I will have to echo Squanto and Herrinc on a couple points as I also do not see why metal weapons should be able to corner the market on top weapons in the game? Is there any particular reason they cannot coexist with bone and stone weapons, especially since the carving discipline isn't even flushed out. We cannot reinforce, strengthen (I have techs for these with bone but no instructions to apply them), lighten, temper, etc. So why is it then, that the carving discipline, incomplete, is consistently "nerfed" as one poster put it?
I content that the balance has not been interrupted. Check the stats again..as the damage goes up, the balance goes down, and as I understand it, balance is an important factor in more than one facet of combat. So it would seem to me (and yes I do combat, and have alts that also do), that the bargain is struck with increase in damage that there is also a decrease in balance and as well an increase in fatigue.
I also like Herrinc's idea. Not something you want proliferating the market? Kill it with the end of the initial 30 runs of the quest (end prizes change often on all the quests, not difficult to do). Unlike the Titanese uproar from last HE fest (which by the way I tailor as well and still have folks seeking me out on a weekly basis to get armor made, so I don't see the market as saturated or overpopulated with Titanese...but I digress), you will be able to nip this now; and it's not like every player on every quest took senci boulders so the total number of weapons in the game will be limited...just like Tyrium. And since we can only make ONE weapon per boulder, we are not talking about huge numbers here.
My two plats (since I feel coppers would not be enough),
Merrila
As one of the carvers of the new Senci weapons I would like to have my say on this as well. I will have to echo Squanto and Herrinc on a couple points as I also do not see why metal weapons should be able to corner the market on top weapons in the game? Is there any particular reason they cannot coexist with bone and stone weapons, especially since the carving discipline isn't even flushed out. We cannot reinforce, strengthen (I have techs for these with bone but no instructions to apply them), lighten, temper, etc. So why is it then, that the carving discipline, incomplete, is consistently "nerfed" as one poster put it?
I content that the balance has not been interrupted. Check the stats again..as the damage goes up, the balance goes down, and as I understand it, balance is an important factor in more than one facet of combat. So it would seem to me (and yes I do combat, and have alts that also do), that the bargain is struck with increase in damage that there is also a decrease in balance and as well an increase in fatigue.
I also like Herrinc's idea. Not something you want proliferating the market? Kill it with the end of the initial 30 runs of the quest (end prizes change often on all the quests, not difficult to do). Unlike the Titanese uproar from last HE fest (which by the way I tailor as well and still have folks seeking me out on a weekly basis to get armor made, so I don't see the market as saturated or overpopulated with Titanese...but I digress), you will be able to nip this now; and it's not like every player on every quest took senci boulders so the total number of weapons in the game will be limited...just like Tyrium. And since we can only make ONE weapon per boulder, we are not talking about huge numbers here.
My two plats (since I feel coppers would not be enough),
Merrila
CLERIXHAX
Re: Senci Maul and Shards
07/06/2014 11:50 AM CDT
Echoing the sentiments of testing this stuff before it's released. Pretty disappointed since I waited to see what the senci boulder was like before I chose it.
REAVER1
Re: Senci Maul and Shards
07/06/2014 11:51 AM CDT
"Oh no! It's not utterly broken, anymore! It's terrible now!"
JARAGONA
Re: Senci Maul and Shards
07/06/2014 11:54 AM CDT
>>"Oh no! It's not utterly broken, anymore! It's terrible now!"
You missed the entire point. Cool quote.
"Brace yourselves, Squanto is going to bleh blah fart fart bleh.." -the player of the character formerly known as Pureblade
You missed the entire point. Cool quote.
"Brace yourselves, Squanto is going to bleh blah fart fart bleh.." -the player of the character formerly known as Pureblade
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Senci Maul and Shards
07/06/2014 12:02 PM CDT
For what it's worth, the senci spear looks what I would expect a 110 hardness, 7-8 density (or whatever's is the cap) metal pike to appraise.
I'd really like to see the need for a density cap as a whole get reassessed since we're now in 3.0 and stamina (arguably) matters again.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
I'd really like to see the need for a density cap as a whole get reassessed since we're now in 3.0 and stamina (arguably) matters again.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
REAVER1
Re: Senci Maul and Shards
07/06/2014 12:09 PM CDT
>You missed the entire point. Cool quote.
Sorry. I just got up.
Everyone just seems pretty crestfallen over something that's clearly a broken quest prize which is amusing to me.
They absolutely need to test these things more. Even a basic "Copy a highly skilled character and craft a few things" would have caught this, I'd imagine.
Sorry. I just got up.
Everyone just seems pretty crestfallen over something that's clearly a broken quest prize which is amusing to me.
They absolutely need to test these things more. Even a basic "Copy a highly skilled character and craft a few things" would have caught this, I'd imagine.
KROONERMANREVENGE
Re: Senci Maul and Shards
07/06/2014 12:13 PM CDT
>"Oh no! It's not utterly broken, anymore! It's terrible now!"
The people irritated here are people who paid 50$ to quest for a rare material which went live, based on certain properties of the item which made it compelling for some weapons.
The owner of the system then stepped in and said that they wasted their time (4 hours), money (50$), and materials, since the weapons were never intended to do that. The people here could have saved their money, or taken a better/different prize, if the people putting these materials out had done due diligence in testing to see what weapons made from these materials would look like, and whether or not they would break the global caps.
Now, instead, they're left with weapons they could have had made from existing stuff in game, but with 20+ stones more weight. It's like going to the store and buying a BMW, then getting it home and having the dealer call and tell you that he didn't have the rights to sell you a BMW because of US law, but here's an AMC Gremlin anyway, and he's keeping your money.
I'm a badger, I be badgerin'
The people irritated here are people who paid 50$ to quest for a rare material which went live, based on certain properties of the item which made it compelling for some weapons.
The owner of the system then stepped in and said that they wasted their time (4 hours), money (50$), and materials, since the weapons were never intended to do that. The people here could have saved their money, or taken a better/different prize, if the people putting these materials out had done due diligence in testing to see what weapons made from these materials would look like, and whether or not they would break the global caps.
Now, instead, they're left with weapons they could have had made from existing stuff in game, but with 20+ stones more weight. It's like going to the store and buying a BMW, then getting it home and having the dealer call and tell you that he didn't have the rights to sell you a BMW because of US law, but here's an AMC Gremlin anyway, and he's keeping your money.
I'm a badger, I be badgerin'
DR-KODIUS
Re: Senci Maul and Shards
07/06/2014 12:17 PM CDT
Folks, the stone weapons will still be better than Tyrium mauls at the same density. That was intended. But going above density 8 was not intended. Multiple bugs united to make this one slip through.
Yes, I tested as thoroughly as I could in the handful of hours I had available to me. This included making the items and pouring over my excel spreadsheets.
However, this bug was introduced AFTER release while I was making enchanting updates in Dev. I did not re-test because I didn't expect anything enchanting-related to go live yet. But it did when we released to the other game instances.
Density bugs were also introduced to metals and stone. Brass, Granite and Lead all had density problems. I think Caraamon alerted me to. It is easy to make a copy/paste error going from excel to notepad. Though this collection of bugs was quite odd. I'm still not really sure what happened.
Get me a GM helper for testing and you'll see the number of bugs go down ::: cricket cricket :::: Ok, I thought so :P
Very few people are able and willing to work as a volunteer under these circumstances for a prolonged period of time. The lack of understanding in how we are "all in this boat" together makes it even harder.
This is just as frustrating for me as it is for you. Ruins my whole day. Makes my blood pressure skyrocket. Means I won't be finishing the other systems on my plate for today. Means I got no sleep today, and will get less tomorrow. Whoopie!
>> Combat
I could enable the fatigue/RT penalty for high density weapons. But it goes back to the - I haven't spent 6 months testing it yet to make sure that all 300 weapon types behave properly under the new calculations.
Would players find that more acceptable? Keep the weapons as they are, and turn on >7.5 density weapon crafting with the appropriate penalties?
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
Yes, I tested as thoroughly as I could in the handful of hours I had available to me. This included making the items and pouring over my excel spreadsheets.
However, this bug was introduced AFTER release while I was making enchanting updates in Dev. I did not re-test because I didn't expect anything enchanting-related to go live yet. But it did when we released to the other game instances.
Density bugs were also introduced to metals and stone. Brass, Granite and Lead all had density problems. I think Caraamon alerted me to. It is easy to make a copy/paste error going from excel to notepad. Though this collection of bugs was quite odd. I'm still not really sure what happened.
Get me a GM helper for testing and you'll see the number of bugs go down ::: cricket cricket :::: Ok, I thought so :P
Very few people are able and willing to work as a volunteer under these circumstances for a prolonged period of time. The lack of understanding in how we are "all in this boat" together makes it even harder.
This is just as frustrating for me as it is for you. Ruins my whole day. Makes my blood pressure skyrocket. Means I won't be finishing the other systems on my plate for today. Means I got no sleep today, and will get less tomorrow. Whoopie!
>> Combat
I could enable the fatigue/RT penalty for high density weapons. But it goes back to the - I haven't spent 6 months testing it yet to make sure that all 300 weapon types behave properly under the new calculations.
Would players find that more acceptable? Keep the weapons as they are, and turn on >7.5 density weapon crafting with the appropriate penalties?
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Senci Maul and Shards
07/06/2014 12:18 PM CDT
>>Now, instead, they're left with weapons they could have had made from existing stuff in game, but with 20+ stones more weight.
I don't think this part will necessarily be true.
110 hardness still matters. It's the density cap modifier to those base stats for the weapon that will be adjusted.
Another middle ground suggestion I can see possibly working would be having the weight of a weapon cap off at its density cap. If the most density a stone weapon can have is X, have the density cap be X * volume, not what it is naturally.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
I don't think this part will necessarily be true.
110 hardness still matters. It's the density cap modifier to those base stats for the weapon that will be adjusted.
Another middle ground suggestion I can see possibly working would be having the weight of a weapon cap off at its density cap. If the most density a stone weapon can have is X, have the density cap be X * volume, not what it is naturally.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
REAVER1
Re: Senci Maul and Shards
07/06/2014 12:19 PM CDT
>Now, instead, they're left with weapons they could have had made from existing stuff in game, but with 20+ stones more weight.
Which material would craft the equivalent to how it'd end up, exactly?
How would it end up with the mentioned changes?
Which material would craft the equivalent to how it'd end up, exactly?
How would it end up with the mentioned changes?
DREAMWEAVER
Re: Senci Maul and Shards
07/06/2014 12:20 PM CDT
I'd like to just echo what others have said.
Squanto, especially, thank you for the succinct summary of how frustrating this is for the few carvers who can carve the top tier senci weapons. And Cappiam, spot on historical view. Herrinc, Merilla, I am right there with you.
This is not easy to watch happen - again - and leaves a bitter taste in the mouths of your players.
Fix it, walk away with an "oops" and leave it be. The fix alone should be worth enough disheartening negative experience.
I'm beyond disappointed.
Deb, player of Dreamheart
Squanto, especially, thank you for the succinct summary of how frustrating this is for the few carvers who can carve the top tier senci weapons. And Cappiam, spot on historical view. Herrinc, Merilla, I am right there with you.
This is not easy to watch happen - again - and leaves a bitter taste in the mouths of your players.
Fix it, walk away with an "oops" and leave it be. The fix alone should be worth enough disheartening negative experience.
I'm beyond disappointed.
Deb, player of Dreamheart
PINEAL
Re: Senci Maul and Shards
07/06/2014 12:21 PM CDT
>>clearly a broken quest prize
The issue here is that nothing was "clearly broken" for all the folks who paid for the quest and chose senci as their end prize. You can't just repeatedly release top-tier materials into the game, have people pay money to aquire those materials, then decide that they're too powerful and nerf them all into oblivion.
If you fail to see why this creates some serious customer satisfaction issues, then I'm not sure what to tell you. I think the only reasonable response at this point is to simply remove it from the end prize table after the 30th run, and be sure to test a bit more thoroughly in the future. And by a bit, I mean a lot.
(And as an additional note, I've neither run the quest nor am I in possession of any senci, but I think it's absurd concept to continually punish customers for flawed game development.)
Life is short, and so am I.
The issue here is that nothing was "clearly broken" for all the folks who paid for the quest and chose senci as their end prize. You can't just repeatedly release top-tier materials into the game, have people pay money to aquire those materials, then decide that they're too powerful and nerf them all into oblivion.
If you fail to see why this creates some serious customer satisfaction issues, then I'm not sure what to tell you. I think the only reasonable response at this point is to simply remove it from the end prize table after the 30th run, and be sure to test a bit more thoroughly in the future. And by a bit, I mean a lot.
(And as an additional note, I've neither run the quest nor am I in possession of any senci, but I think it's absurd concept to continually punish customers for flawed game development.)
Life is short, and so am I.
ILLIENA
Re: Senci Maul and Shards
07/06/2014 12:24 PM CDT
> Get me a GM helper for testing and you'll see the number of bugs go down ::: cricket cricket :::: Ok, I thought so :P
Have we lost Javac? Shame.
Have we lost Javac? Shame.
JARAGONA
Re: Senci Maul and Shards
07/06/2014 12:25 PM CDT
Give me access to a separate test account and a character with 1750 in all crafts, all techs, and 100 all stats and I seriously would help you test. No joke.
"Brace yourselves, Squanto is going to bleh blah fart fart bleh.." -the player of the character formerly known as Pureblade
"Brace yourselves, Squanto is going to bleh blah fart fart bleh.." -the player of the character formerly known as Pureblade
DR-KODIUS
Re: Senci Maul and Shards
07/06/2014 12:27 PM CDT
>>as I also do not see why metal weapons should be able to corner the market on top weapons in the game?
They aren't. The senci stone weapons will still be better than Tyrium forged at the same weight. Diamondique is as good as Tyrium at the same weight.
We're talking about the difference between a reasonable bit better (1 Tier) and an unreasonable bit better (3 Tiers).
For other stone types it was a design decision. One I stand by. You might not like it, but that doesn't make it the wrong decision given the bigger picture. I do not know of any RPGs where common stone and bone weapons routinely outclass their common metal counterparts?
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
They aren't. The senci stone weapons will still be better than Tyrium forged at the same weight. Diamondique is as good as Tyrium at the same weight.
We're talking about the difference between a reasonable bit better (1 Tier) and an unreasonable bit better (3 Tiers).
For other stone types it was a design decision. One I stand by. You might not like it, but that doesn't make it the wrong decision given the bigger picture. I do not know of any RPGs where common stone and bone weapons routinely outclass their common metal counterparts?
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
PINEAL
Re: Senci Maul and Shards
07/06/2014 12:29 PM CDT
>>Get me a GM helper for testing and you'll see the number of bugs go down ::: cricket cricket :::: Ok, I thought so :P
And please stop implying that this is the responsibility of the players. If you guys are understaffed, then you need to get in your superiors' ears and demand a more stable and productive work environment. It's no secret that DR has been having some serious issues with staff retention in the last couple years, but blaming the customers for this is not fair to any of us.
We all pay for money to play this game. I can't speak for everybody, but I'm personally very grateful for the fact that you and the other GM's volunteer your time and effort to keep this game alive. That being said, it is Simutronics's responsibility to manage and maintain their own staff and development, and if their current demands versus payoff for the developers isn't cutting it, then that issue should be addressed internally.
Life is short, and so am I.
And please stop implying that this is the responsibility of the players. If you guys are understaffed, then you need to get in your superiors' ears and demand a more stable and productive work environment. It's no secret that DR has been having some serious issues with staff retention in the last couple years, but blaming the customers for this is not fair to any of us.
We all pay for money to play this game. I can't speak for everybody, but I'm personally very grateful for the fact that you and the other GM's volunteer your time and effort to keep this game alive. That being said, it is Simutronics's responsibility to manage and maintain their own staff and development, and if their current demands versus payoff for the developers isn't cutting it, then that issue should be addressed internally.
Life is short, and so am I.
DR-KODIUS
Re: Senci Maul and Shards
07/06/2014 12:30 PM CDT
>>Give me access to a separate test account and a character with 1750 in all crafts, all techs, and 100 all stats and I seriously would help you test. No joke.
The problems with test are:
1). It is rarely open, synched and accessible to players when I really need it
2). I often have insufficient time to setup and instruct players in how to test ahead of the release
3). Players aren't usually around at the hours I am working on things
But yes, I do tend to toss stuff out there when I am able
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
The problems with test are:
1). It is rarely open, synched and accessible to players when I really need it
2). I often have insufficient time to setup and instruct players in how to test ahead of the release
3). Players aren't usually around at the hours I am working on things
But yes, I do tend to toss stuff out there when I am able
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
JARAGONA
Re: Senci Maul and Shards
07/06/2014 12:33 PM CDT
Just email me what you want done? Or IM me.
"Brace yourselves, Squanto is going to bleh blah fart fart bleh.." -the player of the character formerly known as Pureblade
"Brace yourselves, Squanto is going to bleh blah fart fart bleh.." -the player of the character formerly known as Pureblade
RETIREDMAJ
Re: Senci Maul and Shards
07/06/2014 12:35 PM CDT
<Get me a GM helper for testing and you'll see the number of bugs go down ::: cricket cricket :::: Ok, I thought so :P >
I am a top tier tailor in the game. I'm also one of the top tier carvers and have never been approached by any of the GMs to help test anything. I have been in the test instance multiple times to help there but that's a group effort. If you want some individual support for testing, ask. You might be surprised there is noise besides the sounds of crickets.
No more plats (put more into this already than I should have to heh),
Merrila
I am a top tier tailor in the game. I'm also one of the top tier carvers and have never been approached by any of the GMs to help test anything. I have been in the test instance multiple times to help there but that's a group effort. If you want some individual support for testing, ask. You might be surprised there is noise besides the sounds of crickets.
No more plats (put more into this already than I should have to heh),
Merrila
DREAMWEAVER
Re: Senci Maul and Shards
07/06/2014 12:42 PM CDT
Kodius, if you need something carved, anytime, you can ask me, drop the deed on me, and I will carve it for you.
- - -
~Dreamheart Delaevan Forestwolf
Singing since before the Guild was restored.
- - -
~Dreamheart Delaevan Forestwolf
Singing since before the Guild was restored.
DR-KODIUS
Re: Senci Maul and Shards
07/06/2014 12:45 PM CDT
>> nerf into oblivion
Reducing an item to be only the most powerful of its type in the game is HARDLY nerfing it into oblivion. Good grief, really?
Are people misunderstanding what I am saying?
110 Hardness >>> 99 Hardness
That would not be changing.
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
Reducing an item to be only the most powerful of its type in the game is HARDLY nerfing it into oblivion. Good grief, really?
Are people misunderstanding what I am saying?
110 Hardness >>> 99 Hardness
That would not be changing.
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
DR-KODIUS
Re: Senci Maul and Shards
07/06/2014 12:46 PM CDT
>>Testing
The Test server is so often unavailable when I need it, and that makes testing hard. I am not allowed to give players new materials in the live instances to test with. It would get me fired :/
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
The Test server is so often unavailable when I need it, and that makes testing hard. I am not allowed to give players new materials in the live instances to test with. It would get me fired :/
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
APATHETICSMILE
Re: Senci Maul and Shards
07/06/2014 12:47 PM CDT
ORBITAL303
Re: Senci Maul and Shards
07/06/2014 12:53 PM CDT
I for one support the removal of the density cap entirely, as I believe with Stamina how it is now, it adds a legit tradeoff (more damage/rt/fatigue, or less damage/lower rt/less fatigue cost). Maybe make the increase in these things exponential after 7.5 density, so that going 7.5-8 you get less of an increase than you do going 8-8.5, etc. But I feel like if you want to swing a medium sized house at someone that just happens to be shaped like a sword, and you have the stats to make doing so viable, go for it.
After all, why have damage ranges that go up to 26 when nothing will feasibly go there ever? :)
This could also add another interesting thing to auction items. "This is a 9.0 density weapon that does not have the penalty for being so heavy.". Etc.
- Starlear, Warrior Mage and Lieutenant of Ilithi's Crystal Vanguard -
- I maintain the Warrior Mage Beginner's Guide at:
https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Beginner%27s_Warrior_Mage_Guide
After all, why have damage ranges that go up to 26 when nothing will feasibly go there ever? :)
This could also add another interesting thing to auction items. "This is a 9.0 density weapon that does not have the penalty for being so heavy.". Etc.
- Starlear, Warrior Mage and Lieutenant of Ilithi's Crystal Vanguard -
- I maintain the Warrior Mage Beginner's Guide at:
https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Beginner%27s_Warrior_Mage_Guide
DR-KODIUS
Re: Senci Maul and Shards
07/06/2014 12:58 PM CDT
No, I'm not trying to lay blame on anyone. Just expressing my frustration. It isn't healthy for a person to bottle everything up and never get it out. There isn't anyone I can blame but myself.
I also expound on the forums like this quite often, in hopes that folks can view me as a person and not the big bad cyborg GM. :P It works much better in my profession as an engineer. If you and the customer can relate and realize you both have limitations, needs and wants, sometimes it can help you reach your objectives with less frustration. Well, what works in one line of work doesn't always work in another I suppose!
Staff retention is always a problem due to RL things popping up. We lose almost everyone to that. It isn't like there is some kind of whip-wielding overlords breaking our spirits and sending us running :chuckle:
And sooooo many applicants fail to finish even the application, I don't know what that means.
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
I also expound on the forums like this quite often, in hopes that folks can view me as a person and not the big bad cyborg GM. :P It works much better in my profession as an engineer. If you and the customer can relate and realize you both have limitations, needs and wants, sometimes it can help you reach your objectives with less frustration. Well, what works in one line of work doesn't always work in another I suppose!
Staff retention is always a problem due to RL things popping up. We lose almost everyone to that. It isn't like there is some kind of whip-wielding overlords breaking our spirits and sending us running :chuckle:
And sooooo many applicants fail to finish even the application, I don't know what that means.
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
CLERIXHAX
Re: Senci Maul and Shards
07/06/2014 01:00 PM CDT
>The Test server is so often unavailable when I need it, and that makes testing hard. I am not allowed to give players new materials in the live instances to test with. It would get me fired :/
Understandable, but it's not really fair to take a stab at the players with your comment about getting you a GM helper...crickets only to have a bunch of people volunteer and claim the test instance isn't available. Don't you think that's a bit insulting to the people that actually want to help?
Understandable, but it's not really fair to take a stab at the players with your comment about getting you a GM helper...crickets only to have a bunch of people volunteer and claim the test instance isn't available. Don't you think that's a bit insulting to the people that actually want to help?
DR-KODIUS
Re: Senci Maul and Shards
07/06/2014 01:01 PM CDT
So to recap, I see the following options available -
1). Leave them alone and realize that someday combat changes may change how super heavy weapons work
2). Adjust them down to a 7.5 density better-than-tyrium quality
3). Allow folks to trade them in for a different prize?
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
1). Leave them alone and realize that someday combat changes may change how super heavy weapons work
2). Adjust them down to a 7.5 density better-than-tyrium quality
3). Allow folks to trade them in for a different prize?
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
REAVER1
Re: Senci Maul and Shards
07/06/2014 01:01 PM CDT
>And sooooo many applicants fail to finish even the application, I don't know what that means.
My problem is every time I apply for any position something comes up and I need to suspend my subscription for some period of time.
Like clockwork.
My problem is every time I apply for any position something comes up and I need to suspend my subscription for some period of time.
Like clockwork.
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Senci Maul and Shards
07/06/2014 01:02 PM CDT
>>And sooooo many applicants fail to finish even the application, I don't know what that means.
Fun fact: if you try to apply for multiple things at the same time, if you only finish up one none of them get submitted.
This may have changed from when I was signing up for ALAE and GM positions, but I finished up the ALAE one, didn't do the GM one, and neither submitted because I didn't finish the latter.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
Fun fact: if you try to apply for multiple things at the same time, if you only finish up one none of them get submitted.
This may have changed from when I was signing up for ALAE and GM positions, but I finished up the ALAE one, didn't do the GM one, and neither submitted because I didn't finish the latter.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
JARAGONA
Re: Senci Maul and Shards
07/06/2014 01:04 PM CDT
>>1). Leave them alone and realize that someday combat changes may change how super heavy weapons work
This please.
"Brace yourselves, Squanto is going to bleh blah fart fart bleh.." -the player of the character formerly known as Pureblade
This please.
"Brace yourselves, Squanto is going to bleh blah fart fart bleh.." -the player of the character formerly known as Pureblade
DR-KODIUS
Re: Senci Maul and Shards
07/06/2014 01:07 PM CDT
>>really fair to take a stab at the
Heh, folks can interpret text in many ways. Things would be so much easier if we had audio. It was a joke (and a plea for help from folks interested in helping out with crafting).
A crazy ton of good things could happen with a person or two to help out with each system. Adding higher Tier templates, fixing bugs, expanding Work Orders, expanding Prestige, adding secondary effects to materials, etc etc etc. I can dream :)
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
Heh, folks can interpret text in many ways. Things would be so much easier if we had audio. It was a joke (and a plea for help from folks interested in helping out with crafting).
A crazy ton of good things could happen with a person or two to help out with each system. Adding higher Tier templates, fixing bugs, expanding Work Orders, expanding Prestige, adding secondary effects to materials, etc etc etc. I can dream :)
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
HERRINC
Re: Senci Maul and Shards
07/06/2014 01:15 PM CDT
>>1). Leave them alone and realize that someday combat changes may change how super heavy weapons work
This would be my vote.
If the material is really a problem in its current form, you could also look at removing it from future runs of the quest, although that is a sub-optimal solution as well.
This would be my vote.
If the material is really a problem in its current form, you could also look at removing it from future runs of the quest, although that is a sub-optimal solution as well.
