Ok, so can anyone tell me how exactly the system computes who you are supposed to go up against ? Not to be a killjoy or anything but if your a barbarian like myself your automatically going up against people with higher level abilities and 9/10 more reflex and agility than you, simply because barbarian circle req's are 10-20 circles higher than other guilds.
So is anything being done to fix this and bring this more in line ?
LSIMPSON1
SHADESLAYER
Re: Assassin is broken for Barbarians
10/14/2010 08:22 PM CDT
The system is also still broken for warrior mages, as they cannot use ALOT of their spells without it bugging and not registering assassin kills.
Which would be worse? To live as a monster or to die as a good man?
Which would be worse? To live as a monster or to die as a good man?
BEVERAGEK
Re: Assassin is broken for Barbarians
10/14/2010 08:54 PM CDT
Pretty sure it's based off of skill and not circle. So, train more skills other than weapons?
__
~Leilond
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Leilond
http://soundsoftime.bravehost.com
__
~Leilond
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Leilond
http://soundsoftime.bravehost.com
KOUGEN
Re: Assassin is broken for Barbarians
10/14/2010 09:03 PM CDT
>So is anything being done to fix this and bring this more in line ?
The system uses a combination of skills and stats to make matches, so if what you're saying is true then you should be getting set against people below your circle anyway.
~ Kougen
The shadowling exclaims, "Boo ya!"
The system uses a combination of skills and stats to make matches, so if what you're saying is true then you should be getting set against people below your circle anyway.
~ Kougen
The shadowling exclaims, "Boo ya!"
KOUGEN
Re: Assassin is broken for Barbarians
10/14/2010 09:05 PM CDT
>you should be getting set against people below your circle anyway.
I should read what I write. Meant to say you should be getting set against people at your skill level with no regard to circle.
~ Kougen
The shadowling exclaims, "Boo ya!"
I should read what I write. Meant to say you should be getting set against people at your skill level with no regard to circle.
~ Kougen
The shadowling exclaims, "Boo ya!"
NJP
Re: Assassin is broken for Barbarians
10/14/2010 09:46 PM CDT
>>you should be getting set against people at your skill level with no regard to circle.
It does, but there is a good bit of leeway.
Last time I participated I got assigned a guy hunting in a place that would barely teach me and he died immediately. Right after that it assigned me a moon mage who I also caught hunting (not even paying attention), so I had a completely free shot, tried every combination of abilities and attacks I could come up with, for 5 minutes straight, and couldn't get past his evasion the entire time.
I consider occasionally getting outclassed to be part of the fun, myself.
Ogdaro
"Take chances and see what you can get away with, it only costs you a favor or two if you mess up." -Issus
It does, but there is a good bit of leeway.
Last time I participated I got assigned a guy hunting in a place that would barely teach me and he died immediately. Right after that it assigned me a moon mage who I also caught hunting (not even paying attention), so I had a completely free shot, tried every combination of abilities and attacks I could come up with, for 5 minutes straight, and couldn't get past his evasion the entire time.
I consider occasionally getting outclassed to be part of the fun, myself.
Ogdaro
"Take chances and see what you can get away with, it only costs you a favor or two if you mess up." -Issus
PRAXIS
Re: Assassin is broken for Barbarians
10/15/2010 07:11 AM CDT
<<It does, but there is a good bit of leeway.
I don't think stats play into it much, if at all. I played with a not-very-combat-oriented ~70th MM and always get paired up with 20-30th people, which is about where combat skills are. My guy easily destroys this level opponent and clearly dominates a stat comparison.
On the other side, my primary Paladin kept drawing empaths, and MMs 30+ circles above. I know because we are friendly and compared. Again, my guy is easily wrecked by this level opponent and is similarly dominated in a stat comparison.
Mistrust is our only defense against betrayal.
I don't think stats play into it much, if at all. I played with a not-very-combat-oriented ~70th MM and always get paired up with 20-30th people, which is about where combat skills are. My guy easily destroys this level opponent and clearly dominates a stat comparison.
On the other side, my primary Paladin kept drawing empaths, and MMs 30+ circles above. I know because we are friendly and compared. Again, my guy is easily wrecked by this level opponent and is similarly dominated in a stat comparison.
Mistrust is our only defense against betrayal.
CARDINALE01
Re: Assassin is broken for Barbarians
11/03/2010 09:50 PM CDT
>>Pretty sure it's based off of skill and not circle. So, train more skills other than weapons?
I think what he was getting at is that, going strictly by bare minimum circle requirements, a Barbarian at circle 30 is going to have 140(ish, that's the weapon requirements and hopefully your defenses didn't drag so far behind your weapons) in combat skills. Where as a Warrior Mage, to use an example, is going to have the same combat skills at circle 42(same, basing off weapon requirements and assumption that defenses didn't lag behind).
But being 12 circles higher, the Warrior Mage is going to have many more TDPs to have spent on stats, and possibly abilities that it would be pretty much impossible to counter with a 12 circle/however many stat differences(I don't know what abilities/spells Warrior Mages get and when, I was just using them and the level range as a made up example).
Sure, you can work around it by training other skills to earn more TDPs but I think his point was the system as is puts Barbarians at a disadvantage because of circle requirements and they have to put in extra work just for a(closer) to even playing field.
Not saying I 100% agree with him, but I can see where he's coming from.
I think what he was getting at is that, going strictly by bare minimum circle requirements, a Barbarian at circle 30 is going to have 140(ish, that's the weapon requirements and hopefully your defenses didn't drag so far behind your weapons) in combat skills. Where as a Warrior Mage, to use an example, is going to have the same combat skills at circle 42(same, basing off weapon requirements and assumption that defenses didn't lag behind).
But being 12 circles higher, the Warrior Mage is going to have many more TDPs to have spent on stats, and possibly abilities that it would be pretty much impossible to counter with a 12 circle/however many stat differences(I don't know what abilities/spells Warrior Mages get and when, I was just using them and the level range as a made up example).
Sure, you can work around it by training other skills to earn more TDPs but I think his point was the system as is puts Barbarians at a disadvantage because of circle requirements and they have to put in extra work just for a(closer) to even playing field.
Not saying I 100% agree with him, but I can see where he's coming from.
FUTILITY
Re: Assassin is broken for Barbarians
11/04/2010 01:47 AM CDT
>>Not saying I 100% agree with him, but I can see where he's coming from.
You should. It only gets worse. With 3.0 changes in place, Assassins should quickly provide ample feedback to properly illustrate that point.
You should. It only gets worse. With 3.0 changes in place, Assassins should quickly provide ample feedback to properly illustrate that point.
VEE-REX
Re: Assassin is broken for Barbarians
11/04/2010 05:55 PM CDT
>>You should. It only gets worse.
Not for Barbarians. Try playing Assassins as a magic-using guild against a high-level Barb.
Combat is broken on many aspects, ranging from offensive calcs at high levels to stealth to magic-resistance to spell/ability-stacking to everything else. Learn to have fun with something without whining about every little disadvantage that may be apparent.
Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.
-GM Abasha
Not for Barbarians. Try playing Assassins as a magic-using guild against a high-level Barb.
Combat is broken on many aspects, ranging from offensive calcs at high levels to stealth to magic-resistance to spell/ability-stacking to everything else. Learn to have fun with something without whining about every little disadvantage that may be apparent.
Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.
-GM Abasha
FUTILITY
Re: Assassin is broken for Barbarians
11/05/2010 01:37 AM CDT
>>Learn to have fun with something without whining about every little disadvantage that may be apparent.
I do. I just don't try to enjoy Assassins with my Barbarian. There's a large window (say, oh, 40-120th circle) where Barbarians are just going to get pummeled, stats being relevant, and then after that it becomes more hit-or-miss as BMR starts popping into play. Before that it's not particularly bad...the TDP gap, I mean.
Like I said, Assassins in 3.0 should be mighty revealing.
I do. I just don't try to enjoy Assassins with my Barbarian. There's a large window (say, oh, 40-120th circle) where Barbarians are just going to get pummeled, stats being relevant, and then after that it becomes more hit-or-miss as BMR starts popping into play. Before that it's not particularly bad...the TDP gap, I mean.
Like I said, Assassins in 3.0 should be mighty revealing.
CHRISSY-QUE
Re: Assassin is broken for Barbarians
11/05/2010 02:59 PM CDT
>>There's a large window (say, oh, 40-120th circle) where Barbarians are just going to get pummeled
You should speak for yourself, or not just throw out random numbers to try and make your case. My barb has been doing just fine from 70th to 90th in Assassins. In fact, I stopped playing because I felt sorry for my opponents.
You should speak for yourself, or not just throw out random numbers to try and make your case. My barb has been doing just fine from 70th to 90th in Assassins. In fact, I stopped playing because I felt sorry for my opponents.
FUTILITY
Re: Assassin is broken for Barbarians
11/05/2010 03:54 PM CDT
>>You should speak for yourself
I do. At least, that's the rough equivalent of skill ranges of characters I've stomped Barbarians with.
My own Barbarian doesn't do bad at Assassins, but he has hiding, stalking, and defensive skills on average 80 ranks ahead of his weapons. Certainly not typical.
Anyway, as I said it'll all shake out eventually.
I do. At least, that's the rough equivalent of skill ranges of characters I've stomped Barbarians with.
My own Barbarian doesn't do bad at Assassins, but he has hiding, stalking, and defensive skills on average 80 ranks ahead of his weapons. Certainly not typical.
Anyway, as I said it'll all shake out eventually.
VEE-REX
Re: Assassin is broken for Barbarians
11/06/2010 10:04 AM CDT
>>There's a large window (say, oh, 40-120th circle) where Barbarians are just going to get pummeled
I disagree. Well trained for PvP isn't the only necessity. Look at various high level bought characters who are trained well. You have to know what you're doing. When I seriously PvP I go all out in every way possible, and Barbarians are more than capable (from 40th-120th) of not being pummeled.
>>I do. At least, that's the rough equivalent of skill ranges of characters I've stomped Barbarians with.
Just because you stomp Barbarians in that skill range doesn't mean quote, "Barbarians are just going to get pummeled".
Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.
-GM Abasha
I disagree. Well trained for PvP isn't the only necessity. Look at various high level bought characters who are trained well. You have to know what you're doing. When I seriously PvP I go all out in every way possible, and Barbarians are more than capable (from 40th-120th) of not being pummeled.
>>I do. At least, that's the rough equivalent of skill ranges of characters I've stomped Barbarians with.
Just because you stomp Barbarians in that skill range doesn't mean quote, "Barbarians are just going to get pummeled".
Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.
-GM Abasha
