Previous
I'll admit that as a player having grown up in an immigrant family its hard for me to put aside my beliefs of hard work = get anything you want. Knowing this I chose to play Hanryu as being a little wary of strong Feudal rulers. I mean come on he's a Kaldar and if there's any example of tyrannical feudalism in Elanthia it's the Gorbesh. Furthermore this game is based on guilds where hard work earns you incredible abilities. Those guilds have the raw power (both in manpower and in skills), weather they care to exercise it in a political fashion or not, it's there. I have no problem telling you that Hanryu's loyalties lie first with his family/friends then with his guild. He has yet to find any government that can hold sway over his actions.
Long story short we may have nobles that can kick some butt or have claims to power via lineage, but to me the people with the big guns wear the title Guildleader. Is there such a thing as Guildocracy?
--
Ranger Hanryu, Sword of House Calibanor
(Screw the last name, I don't want to loose any more friends to the event in Shard)
SAUVA
Re: Post addressing how nobility RP is treated by the majority at this moment(LO
03/15/2005 06:48 AM CST
VROTSOSJ
Re: Post addressing how nobility RP is treated by the majority at this moment(LO
03/15/2005 11:20 AM CST
>>Is there such a thing as Guildocracy?
I believe Steel Claw Clan would fall into that category although it's just a town/village with a fortress/castle and may be considered a part of some larger political faction. The leader is the barbarian guildleader T'kiel and there's also a dance pit with a dance pit master.
I am --- Navak
I believe Steel Claw Clan would fall into that category although it's just a town/village with a fortress/castle and may be considered a part of some larger political faction. The leader is the barbarian guildleader T'kiel and there's also a dance pit with a dance pit master.
I am --- Navak
BRETTH
Re: Post addressing how nobility RP is treated by the majority at this moment(LO
03/15/2005 07:59 PM CST
Personally, I think a Guildocracy would fit the game's actual atmosphere (as opposed to its stated atmosphere) and most common playing style better than feudalism. Technically, I suppose a Guildocracy would be a form of Oligarchy (rule of the few).
---Brett
---Brett
DR-TRIBANIN
Re: Post addressing how nobility RP is treated by the majority at this moment(LO
03/16/2005 06:55 AM CST
Just to weigh in here briefly... Ok, so it probably won't be brief...
There's an aspect to the game that exists often and I think this discussion represents a good example of it.
In the grand scheme of things, the government exists beyond the noble. Just because you see a handful of NPCs playing a few roles, there's a lot more going on around you than that. It's not possible to rp all the actual bodies needed to maintain a true nobles house, much less that of a full provincial realm.
For example - look at the economy. Considering the wealth that all the provinces must be bringing in, the need for a militia is there more for the purpose of giving the players the role of defender, certainly not because an army couldn't be maintained. Add to that they could easily afford to hire enough powerful members of each guild to keep the masses at bay.
Next - discipline. If we as staff playing the parts of the nobility were allowed to punish the citizens as they were dealt with in this type of society, think about how substantial a difference would be made. Murder was often met with death. Lesser acts meant a trip to the dungeon, sometimes to be forgotten by the ruler until someone had the nerve to remind them, and even then that didn't mean a reprieve, even though the act may have been nothing more than. A more sinister ruler may delight in torture for the sound one makes as one is broken.
Openly speaking against the ruler wasn't looked on to favorably either. Lashes with the whip, torture, removal of the offending tongue - all nice ways of ending one's career if verbal work was needed. And let us not forget those who mysteriously vanished, only to turn up in some hidden grave or rat-infested dungeon.
As for the power of the pc and the guild. People often see the ruler and they see one man. Going back to what I was saying earlier - there's so much more than that. Guildleaders would probably do a lot more than bellow at you for being stupid. Leaders would certainly not condone large numbers of powerful people to gather in one place if they were not certain they could quell any possible attempt to remove them from their seat.
Dragonrealms requires roleplay and imagination to bring all the aspects necessary to life. You can't look at the roleplay one way - You're uber powerful and bow to no one - and expect all the pieces to fit correctly. For us to make the provincial leaders seem more realistic and less necessary for the imagination to work, would require a staff equal to or higher, than the size of the player base.
Moon Mage history is a prime example - originally they were a group of seperate sects who were forced together under the emperor or, to put it kindly, their ability to practice magic would be at an end. That's written history and considered a valid part of the game, but many guilds - including the Moon Mages - seem to forget there is a force far stronger than they, and because it isn't lorded over them constantly as a reminder, or because they aren't punished nearly as harshly as they realistically would be, go on doing things that are really taking advantage of a system created to entertain and enhance, not control.
Another aspect is people are simply used to a democracy. I hear all the time that players think the rulers should listen to the masses. This is incorrect. We as Gms should listen to you the player and make adjustments where we can to enhance the roleplay and make it better, but change how the system of government functions in a medieval society to allow them to control how the realm functions takes it out of fantasy and thrusts it to where people are often trying to escape from. Add to that there are the "unseen" masses - the shopkeepers, peasants, and other livelihoods that have to exist in order for the day to day to function. How many horse owners muck out their own stalls or for that matter, cleans up after their horse at all? Who sweeps the floors in these grand almost palacial guild halls and temples? Who lights the lamps in the streets at night and puts them out come morning? Who cooks the food and prepares the drinks? Who built the homes and buildings that dot the landscape?
How many players would sacrifice their time to these tasks and perform them in lieu of their training efforts? Some would, until it became a burden and they saw their training begin to suffer, or it didn't generate enough coin - and it wouldn't - to pay "the bills".
Personally, I'd like to see the system of government expanded so that players are hired to perform jobs - advisors, official military, house guards, maids, etc. In that vein, there should also be allowed a stricter form of adherence to laws and punishments set to fit the crime. But that would affect how people roleplay - a LOT - and would eventually effect the enjoyment of a large group of people.
So - is the issue changing the form of government, or simply changing the mindset to remember that for every one individual you see, there could be ten, a hundred, or even a thousand lives that go unnoticed and unseen all day, every day, to help make those parts of the world that are so often taken for granted.
Of course, if I could have about thousand people on the events team, I'd be happy to make the world a much more believable existance for everyone. ;)
Trib
"To be a catalyst is the ambition most appropriate for those who see the world as being in constant change, and who, without thinking that they can control it, wish to influence its direction."
There's an aspect to the game that exists often and I think this discussion represents a good example of it.
In the grand scheme of things, the government exists beyond the noble. Just because you see a handful of NPCs playing a few roles, there's a lot more going on around you than that. It's not possible to rp all the actual bodies needed to maintain a true nobles house, much less that of a full provincial realm.
For example - look at the economy. Considering the wealth that all the provinces must be bringing in, the need for a militia is there more for the purpose of giving the players the role of defender, certainly not because an army couldn't be maintained. Add to that they could easily afford to hire enough powerful members of each guild to keep the masses at bay.
Next - discipline. If we as staff playing the parts of the nobility were allowed to punish the citizens as they were dealt with in this type of society, think about how substantial a difference would be made. Murder was often met with death. Lesser acts meant a trip to the dungeon, sometimes to be forgotten by the ruler until someone had the nerve to remind them, and even then that didn't mean a reprieve, even though the act may have been nothing more than. A more sinister ruler may delight in torture for the sound one makes as one is broken.
Openly speaking against the ruler wasn't looked on to favorably either. Lashes with the whip, torture, removal of the offending tongue - all nice ways of ending one's career if verbal work was needed. And let us not forget those who mysteriously vanished, only to turn up in some hidden grave or rat-infested dungeon.
As for the power of the pc and the guild. People often see the ruler and they see one man. Going back to what I was saying earlier - there's so much more than that. Guildleaders would probably do a lot more than bellow at you for being stupid. Leaders would certainly not condone large numbers of powerful people to gather in one place if they were not certain they could quell any possible attempt to remove them from their seat.
Dragonrealms requires roleplay and imagination to bring all the aspects necessary to life. You can't look at the roleplay one way - You're uber powerful and bow to no one - and expect all the pieces to fit correctly. For us to make the provincial leaders seem more realistic and less necessary for the imagination to work, would require a staff equal to or higher, than the size of the player base.
Moon Mage history is a prime example - originally they were a group of seperate sects who were forced together under the emperor or, to put it kindly, their ability to practice magic would be at an end. That's written history and considered a valid part of the game, but many guilds - including the Moon Mages - seem to forget there is a force far stronger than they, and because it isn't lorded over them constantly as a reminder, or because they aren't punished nearly as harshly as they realistically would be, go on doing things that are really taking advantage of a system created to entertain and enhance, not control.
Another aspect is people are simply used to a democracy. I hear all the time that players think the rulers should listen to the masses. This is incorrect. We as Gms should listen to you the player and make adjustments where we can to enhance the roleplay and make it better, but change how the system of government functions in a medieval society to allow them to control how the realm functions takes it out of fantasy and thrusts it to where people are often trying to escape from. Add to that there are the "unseen" masses - the shopkeepers, peasants, and other livelihoods that have to exist in order for the day to day to function. How many horse owners muck out their own stalls or for that matter, cleans up after their horse at all? Who sweeps the floors in these grand almost palacial guild halls and temples? Who lights the lamps in the streets at night and puts them out come morning? Who cooks the food and prepares the drinks? Who built the homes and buildings that dot the landscape?
How many players would sacrifice their time to these tasks and perform them in lieu of their training efforts? Some would, until it became a burden and they saw their training begin to suffer, or it didn't generate enough coin - and it wouldn't - to pay "the bills".
Personally, I'd like to see the system of government expanded so that players are hired to perform jobs - advisors, official military, house guards, maids, etc. In that vein, there should also be allowed a stricter form of adherence to laws and punishments set to fit the crime. But that would affect how people roleplay - a LOT - and would eventually effect the enjoyment of a large group of people.
So - is the issue changing the form of government, or simply changing the mindset to remember that for every one individual you see, there could be ten, a hundred, or even a thousand lives that go unnoticed and unseen all day, every day, to help make those parts of the world that are so often taken for granted.
Of course, if I could have about thousand people on the events team, I'd be happy to make the world a much more believable existance for everyone. ;)
Trib
"To be a catalyst is the ambition most appropriate for those who see the world as being in constant change, and who, without thinking that they can control it, wish to influence its direction."
DAERLYNN
Re: Post addressing how nobility RP is treated by the majority at this moment(LO
03/16/2005 07:23 AM CST
Very, very well said, Trib.
Daerlynn
Daerlynn
ZOAR
Re: Post addressing how nobility RP is treated by the majority at this moment(LO
03/16/2005 07:28 AM CST
Neener neener neener I'll stay on my island and talk all I want about them mainland nobles!
DIAME
Re: Post addressing how nobility RP is treated by the majority at this moment(LO
03/16/2005 10:55 AM CST
Heh.. oddly enough the thought of roleplaying a scullery maid is something I'd happily delve right into, if it were supported. Then again, I'm one of those people that play purely for the RP and little else.
Which.. would be one reason why circling doesn't occur that often.
Drex's thing
Which.. would be one reason why circling doesn't occur that often.
Drex's thing
BRETTH
Re: Post addressing how nobility RP is treated by the majority at this moment(LO
03/16/2005 10:59 AM CST
>>>So - is the issue changing the form of government, or simply changing the mindset to remember that for every one individual you see, there could be ten, a hundred, or even a thousand lives that go unnoticed and unseen all day, every day, to help make those parts of the world that are so often taken for granted.<<<
I tried to promote the latter for years, and pretty much haven't got anywhere with it. As the previous thread probably demonstrates, a lot of people refuse to play that way, and the atmosphere of the game ultimately is formed by those daily reactions with players.
---Brett
I tried to promote the latter for years, and pretty much haven't got anywhere with it. As the previous thread probably demonstrates, a lot of people refuse to play that way, and the atmosphere of the game ultimately is formed by those daily reactions with players.
---Brett
DRWOLF
Re: Post addressing how nobility RP is treated by the majority at this moment(LO
03/16/2005 11:55 AM CST
<<Then again, I'm one of those people that play purely for the RP and little else.
Nice to hear some still do. We're a rare breed these days...
~The Blackfire Mage Magmus
Nice to hear some still do. We're a rare breed these days...
~The Blackfire Mage Magmus
ELRIIC
Re: Post addressing how nobility RP is treated by the majority at this moment(LO
03/16/2005 12:56 PM CST
Tribs, you made a really great post with alot of great points..
Personally I think Vorclaf under Vaschon's control was one of the best portrayals of an Elanthian nobleman.
He observed social graces of his station, and had his lackies take care of any who did not show thier due. Elriic was in shock when Vorclaf granted him the unbelievable honor of actually smiling at a missive he overheard between Elriic and another Commander.
Another great example is his reaction with Zoranyl... If someone had the nerve to show a sign of disrespect... an eyebrow would be raised and said offender was..politely (yeah.. thats the word... right) reminded he or she was in the presence of a Prince by Zoranyl...
I think that a polite balance needs to be made between Nobility-Authority-Player Mindset. It won't always work, but universally sticking to one demeanor with rare, if any breaks would certainly help the situation.
Elriic
~~~
In Memoriam: Goodbye Dangelo.
- Friend
- Barbarian
- All around good guy.
~~~
Personally I think Vorclaf under Vaschon's control was one of the best portrayals of an Elanthian nobleman.
He observed social graces of his station, and had his lackies take care of any who did not show thier due. Elriic was in shock when Vorclaf granted him the unbelievable honor of actually smiling at a missive he overheard between Elriic and another Commander.
Another great example is his reaction with Zoranyl... If someone had the nerve to show a sign of disrespect... an eyebrow would be raised and said offender was..politely (yeah.. thats the word... right) reminded he or she was in the presence of a Prince by Zoranyl...
I think that a polite balance needs to be made between Nobility-Authority-Player Mindset. It won't always work, but universally sticking to one demeanor with rare, if any breaks would certainly help the situation.
Elriic
~~~
In Memoriam: Goodbye Dangelo.
- Friend
- Barbarian
- All around good guy.
~~~
MONDAE
Re: Post addressing how nobility RP is treated by the majority at this moment(LO
03/17/2005 03:40 PM CST
This is a late post but... one of my characters, (Meanne) is rped with an irrational and all-consuming fear/loathing of gnomes. You have NO idea how many times people have told me "GNOMES ARE OUR EQUALS", "GNOMES ARE PEOPLE TOO", etc. Gnomes are basically foreign immigrants who previously in DR had only been seen sneaking around in shadows, cackling, and snatching crap up off the ground ;}
Plus she'll often fly off the handle and beat her servants about the head and shoulders with a broom, spoon, pot, etc. And there are of course civil rights activists who speak RIGHT up... :)
Not that her behavior or neurosis are admireable, encourageable, or even socially acceptable... but I as the player always chuckle when people try to upbraid her ig about "rights" :) Depending on what you view nobility as in the game I doubt any average citizen would really, in their right mind (unless they were super duper dedicated to civil rights and didn't care about their necks) would upbraid a master of the arcane arts for smacking around her incompetant messenger or such.
But hey..it happens. And there are those damn anomales...the paladins..grr..
:)
Plus she'll often fly off the handle and beat her servants about the head and shoulders with a broom, spoon, pot, etc. And there are of course civil rights activists who speak RIGHT up... :)
Not that her behavior or neurosis are admireable, encourageable, or even socially acceptable... but I as the player always chuckle when people try to upbraid her ig about "rights" :) Depending on what you view nobility as in the game I doubt any average citizen would really, in their right mind (unless they were super duper dedicated to civil rights and didn't care about their necks) would upbraid a master of the arcane arts for smacking around her incompetant messenger or such.
But hey..it happens. And there are those damn anomales...the paladins..grr..
:)
GOSSFORD
Re: Post addressing how nobility RP is treated by the majority at this moment(LO
03/17/2005 04:41 PM CST
LOL
After reading Meanne's post I got a sudden urge to roll up a gnome paladin!
"All animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others." ~~ G.O.
After reading Meanne's post I got a sudden urge to roll up a gnome paladin!
"All animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others." ~~ G.O.
RAZIAAR
Re: Post addressing how nobility RP is treated by the majority at this moment(LO
03/18/2005 07:16 AM CST
With insane amounts of hiding.
Troubadour Raziaar
Troubadour Raziaar
NESTIC
Re: Post addressing how nobility RP is treated by the majority at this moment(LO
03/21/2005 04:58 AM CST
<<You have NO idea how many times people have told me "GNOMES ARE OUR EQUALS", "GNOMES ARE PEOPLE TOO", etc.
It's interesting to me how "seriously" some folks ingame take the racial differences of fantasy races. I play a dwarf who sees both of the other smaller races quite differently. My character loves halflings, but sees gnomes as...well..."delightfully crunchy tidbits when grilled to perfection"...
Saying something akin to that recently ingame at a popular gathering spot brought with much discussion. Some of it was fun, great roleplay! However, one person who was particularly vocal about how disgusting "my" (not my character's) prejudice was (and she was an elf) whispered to me, "Some of my best friends here play gnome characters, how would you like it if we all said bad things about dwarven characters??"
My laughing at her didn't help the situation much, heh.
It's interesting to me how "seriously" some folks ingame take the racial differences of fantasy races. I play a dwarf who sees both of the other smaller races quite differently. My character loves halflings, but sees gnomes as...well..."delightfully crunchy tidbits when grilled to perfection"...
Saying something akin to that recently ingame at a popular gathering spot brought with much discussion. Some of it was fun, great roleplay! However, one person who was particularly vocal about how disgusting "my" (not my character's) prejudice was (and she was an elf) whispered to me, "Some of my best friends here play gnome characters, how would you like it if we all said bad things about dwarven characters??"
My laughing at her didn't help the situation much, heh.
PURHEART
Re: Post addressing how nobility RP is treated by the majority at this moment(LO
03/21/2005 06:59 PM CST
Thats okay, try joking around on crossings gweth about to cook some of the other races & how my main char views a specific race & see the reaction you get. Granted this was ohh 2 or 3 yrs ago but boy oh boy, best time was the threats of a lynch squad & having some order members get all pissy about a joke.
Those were the days
Those were the days
ELRIIC
Re: Post addressing how nobility RP is treated by the majority at this moment(LO
03/28/2005 08:23 AM CST
<<You have NO idea how many times people have told me "GNOMES ARE OUR EQUALS", "GNOMES ARE PEOPLE TOO", etc.
It's interesting to me how "seriously" some folks ingame take the racial differences of fantasy races. I play a dwarf who sees both of the other smaller races quite differently. My character loves halflings, but sees gnomes as...well..."delightfully crunchy tidbits when grilled to perfection"...
Saying something akin to that recently ingame at a popular gathering spot brought with much discussion. Some of it was fun, great roleplay! However, one person who was particularly vocal about how disgusting "my" (not my character's) prejudice was (and she was an elf) whispered to me, "Some of my best friends here play gnome characters, how would you like it if we all said bad things about dwarven characters??"
My laughing at her didn't help the situation much, heh.
Unfortunately, we all need to keep in mind that not everyone we interact with can seperate the world we live in with the world we play in. You run into varying levels of people who understand and don't. The best thing can do is laugh at all the little Elf women out there :P
Let me give you an example of what I mean:
Elriic personally distrusts most Elves and outright despises gnomes as the freeloading slightly-above-field-mice miscreants that they are.
He was in a situation where there were several gnomes on a ferry and he paid his dues to board. When he arrived, he noticed the little cluster of warm-blooded gnats and snorted in disgust before making his way to leave. Of the three of them, two were excellent RP'ers and 1 was a perfect example of our 'PC', or 'Putridly Correct' person.
Elriic gets into an excellent banter with the first two, talking about how they infest our fair lands, and that the only reason he tolerates them is because as a Commander of Zoluren, He's required to. They start blabbing on about how it's thier right and that they're really good people. Elriic says that they should see Meanne and ask her to invite them over for supper. (Cue wicked grin)
The third one goes off the deep end and says how racist 'I' have no right to dislike gnomes and that 'I' have a problem with her character and all this other OOC and obviously dumb stuff. The other two basically hauled off and smacked her. Then we just elevated it a notch and really went at one another just to piss her off :P
Save a total of about 3 gnomes in all of Elanthia, I have never broken my stance on gnomes or any of the other racial predispositions Elriic has. Besides, Elriic's now 55 years old and for a human, he's about passed that stage where old habits change. My point to you is keep laughing in the face of people who don't understand and do your -resolute best- to stick to your guns :)
~~~
In Memoriam: Goodbye Dangelo.
- Friend
- Barbarian
- All around good guy.
~~~
It's interesting to me how "seriously" some folks ingame take the racial differences of fantasy races. I play a dwarf who sees both of the other smaller races quite differently. My character loves halflings, but sees gnomes as...well..."delightfully crunchy tidbits when grilled to perfection"...
Saying something akin to that recently ingame at a popular gathering spot brought with much discussion. Some of it was fun, great roleplay! However, one person who was particularly vocal about how disgusting "my" (not my character's) prejudice was (and she was an elf) whispered to me, "Some of my best friends here play gnome characters, how would you like it if we all said bad things about dwarven characters??"
My laughing at her didn't help the situation much, heh.
Unfortunately, we all need to keep in mind that not everyone we interact with can seperate the world we live in with the world we play in. You run into varying levels of people who understand and don't. The best thing can do is laugh at all the little Elf women out there :P
Let me give you an example of what I mean:
Elriic personally distrusts most Elves and outright despises gnomes as the freeloading slightly-above-field-mice miscreants that they are.
He was in a situation where there were several gnomes on a ferry and he paid his dues to board. When he arrived, he noticed the little cluster of warm-blooded gnats and snorted in disgust before making his way to leave. Of the three of them, two were excellent RP'ers and 1 was a perfect example of our 'PC', or 'Putridly Correct' person.
Elriic gets into an excellent banter with the first two, talking about how they infest our fair lands, and that the only reason he tolerates them is because as a Commander of Zoluren, He's required to. They start blabbing on about how it's thier right and that they're really good people. Elriic says that they should see Meanne and ask her to invite them over for supper. (Cue wicked grin)
The third one goes off the deep end and says how racist 'I' have no right to dislike gnomes and that 'I' have a problem with her character and all this other OOC and obviously dumb stuff. The other two basically hauled off and smacked her. Then we just elevated it a notch and really went at one another just to piss her off :P
Save a total of about 3 gnomes in all of Elanthia, I have never broken my stance on gnomes or any of the other racial predispositions Elriic has. Besides, Elriic's now 55 years old and for a human, he's about passed that stage where old habits change. My point to you is keep laughing in the face of people who don't understand and do your -resolute best- to stick to your guns :)
~~~
In Memoriam: Goodbye Dangelo.
- Friend
- Barbarian
- All around good guy.
~~~
ZUNEE
Re: Post addressing how nobility RP is treated by the majority at this moment(LO
04/01/2005 09:45 AM CST
Elriic! How dare you say such horrible things about Gnomes? They have their purpose, for they make excellent hat-racks. Dwarves. Dwarves, on the other hand are revolting, wretched creatures that need to be expunged from the lands. Most Humans, upstart usurpers, may of course join the Dwarves in their rot.
-A.Z.
I think it is pretty funny that people freak out about an racist views a character in game might express. It is part of the roleplay and gives depth to a character. There are loooong histories built up around disputes between races, so why not play on that? Togs were slaves for ages, so to me it makes sense that some of them might be bitter toward the other races. S'Kra the same. Elves have had wars with various other races, and of course all of the immigrant 'strange' races that everyone seemingly takes for granted as having always been there. Racism, ugly word that it is, can provide really great RP moments and set the stage for great though sometimes negative interaction between characters. We can't be happy and get along all of the time. What point is there to life without some conflict along the way, eh? I in no way condone racism out of game, but in game? It's fantasy, its make-believe, its about stretching the bounds of who you are and trying to take on a new persona. Why not try to become something you aren't in your life, or even something you truly dislike for the challenge?
-the player of A.Z.
-A.Z.
I think it is pretty funny that people freak out about an racist views a character in game might express. It is part of the roleplay and gives depth to a character. There are loooong histories built up around disputes between races, so why not play on that? Togs were slaves for ages, so to me it makes sense that some of them might be bitter toward the other races. S'Kra the same. Elves have had wars with various other races, and of course all of the immigrant 'strange' races that everyone seemingly takes for granted as having always been there. Racism, ugly word that it is, can provide really great RP moments and set the stage for great though sometimes negative interaction between characters. We can't be happy and get along all of the time. What point is there to life without some conflict along the way, eh? I in no way condone racism out of game, but in game? It's fantasy, its make-believe, its about stretching the bounds of who you are and trying to take on a new persona. Why not try to become something you aren't in your life, or even something you truly dislike for the challenge?
-the player of A.Z.
PALUMBOB
Re: Post addressing how nobility RP is treated by the majority at this moment(LO
04/07/2005 10:18 AM CDT
It's always sad when people can't seperate between a character and the person playing it. You really should have whispered back that you have some Gnome characters yourself but that this particular character doesn't like them. Maybe she would have gotten the point.
That said, using racial matters to help define your character is a good way to decide who you interact with other characters...that said, it's also just as revelent when your character loves all races and despises any form of racism.
That said, using racial matters to help define your character is a good way to decide who you interact with other characters...that said, it's also just as revelent when your character loves all races and despises any form of racism.
VALTIES
Re: Post addressing how nobility RP is treated by the majority at this moment(LO
04/07/2005 10:41 AM CDT
>>It's always sad when people can't seperate between a character and the person playing it. You really should have whispered back that you have some Gnome characters yourself but that this particular character doesn't like them. Maybe she would have gotten the point.
I've seen characters being played where there is no question in my mind that the player is doing an excellant job of RP. I have also seen some characters being played where there is a big "?" weather this person is truly being IC or just an extension of themselves.
Daxlynn's Energizer Bunny
I've seen characters being played where there is no question in my mind that the player is doing an excellant job of RP. I have also seen some characters being played where there is a big "?" weather this person is truly being IC or just an extension of themselves.
Daxlynn's Energizer Bunny
MOORES14
Re: Post addressing how nobility RP is treated by the majority at this moment(LO
04/07/2005 11:48 AM CDT
Want to respond to a couple points.
First off I have always beleived that DR fits far better into the late middle ages and early rennaisance timeframe than the high middle ages anyway.Much of tthe Culture of DR including dress art and architectural style seems to me to smack of the rennaisance.Yes i know you cant see these thing but from the way things are described to me it reminds me of the renn.
Crymthann personally has no issues with the form of government Only that zoluren controls the elven lands around Leth deriel.If crym were to have his way he would set up an elven government in Leth that would probably closely follow the government of the ferdhal.
I think many who play DR dont know the history between the races either.To me it is natural for Crymthann to dislike Dwarves and humans.As he has spent more time in the cosmopolitan cities that dislike has been mitigated.He married a human.He still has all the Elven arrogance and believes elves are by far the finest and most refined race in the realms.Followed by the elotheans.For family reasons he harbor a hatred for the skra.As a resident of ratha he keeps this stifled for the most part but it is still there.
First off I have always beleived that DR fits far better into the late middle ages and early rennaisance timeframe than the high middle ages anyway.Much of tthe Culture of DR including dress art and architectural style seems to me to smack of the rennaisance.Yes i know you cant see these thing but from the way things are described to me it reminds me of the renn.
Crymthann personally has no issues with the form of government Only that zoluren controls the elven lands around Leth deriel.If crym were to have his way he would set up an elven government in Leth that would probably closely follow the government of the ferdhal.
I think many who play DR dont know the history between the races either.To me it is natural for Crymthann to dislike Dwarves and humans.As he has spent more time in the cosmopolitan cities that dislike has been mitigated.He married a human.He still has all the Elven arrogance and believes elves are by far the finest and most refined race in the realms.Followed by the elotheans.For family reasons he harbor a hatred for the skra.As a resident of ratha he keeps this stifled for the most part but it is still there.
SAKHARA
Re: Post addressing how nobility RP is treated by the majority at this moment(LO
04/07/2005 12:03 PM CDT
>I think many who play DR dont know the history between the races either.
A lot of characters aren't going to know them, either. Ok, so most people play charas from the middle to upper classes. But someone from a poor, isolated farming community isn't gonna know much if anything about race relations beyond, "Hey, I think I've heard of elves/dwarves/s'kra etc." They might know something about one or two races they lived near, but nothing like someone from Crossing or 'Haven, even of the same class.
A lot of characters aren't going to know them, either. Ok, so most people play charas from the middle to upper classes. But someone from a poor, isolated farming community isn't gonna know much if anything about race relations beyond, "Hey, I think I've heard of elves/dwarves/s'kra etc." They might know something about one or two races they lived near, but nothing like someone from Crossing or 'Haven, even of the same class.
DIAME
Re: Post addressing how nobility RP is treated by the majority at this moment(LO
04/07/2005 04:33 PM CDT
If the word race was replaced by species a lot of people might see it in a whole different light. This not only applies to prejudisms but to marriage and breeding as well.
Drex
Drex
YAMCER
Re: Post addressing how nobility RP is treated by the majority at this moment(LO
04/07/2005 05:59 PM CDT
<<If the word race was replaced by species a lot of people might see it in a whole different light. This not only applies to prejudisms but to marriage and breeding as well.>>
which is true race and species are different, different races can inter-breed. different species can not inter-breed. so there would be the skra'mur, the gor'togs, the pyrdaens and the others. (though gnomes seem incompatible with the elf and elothean.. maybe too far on opposite ends of the race spectra).
so within the 11 races there are 4 distinct species of PC's and well a plethora of other species of intelligent beings.
http://www.play.net/dr/info/races/racecharts.asp
it would be really interesting to to some evolutionary theory and such on the Adventurer races, looking at teh breeding chart and common histories.
Yamcer
"You know, while I understand the importance of seeing the (personal) validity in other's arguments, it's impossible for me to believe fully that others are correct. If their argument was correct, I'd change mine." - My GF
which is true race and species are different, different races can inter-breed. different species can not inter-breed. so there would be the skra'mur, the gor'togs, the pyrdaens and the others. (though gnomes seem incompatible with the elf and elothean.. maybe too far on opposite ends of the race spectra).
so within the 11 races there are 4 distinct species of PC's and well a plethora of other species of intelligent beings.
http://www.play.net/dr/info/races/racecharts.asp
it would be really interesting to to some evolutionary theory and such on the Adventurer races, looking at teh breeding chart and common histories.
Yamcer
"You know, while I understand the importance of seeing the (personal) validity in other's arguments, it's impossible for me to believe fully that others are correct. If their argument was correct, I'd change mine." - My GF
PALUMBOB
Re: Post addressing how nobility RP is treated by the majority at this moment(LO
04/09/2005 06:01 AM CDT
Moores14, my character and his friends tried to make an Elven Government for Leth Deriel in 2000. We tried to first get our government recognized as legit by the Zoluren Government, then we were going to attempt to slowly gain independance.
What happened was Sirolarn, came and met with us in Leth...sent our arses to Dirge to become the government there. This was in order to prove our 'loyalty'. So we all move up to Dirge and set up there. While in Leth we were all Elven, so being 'in charge' of Dirge was a strain on our characters. It made for some fun RP once we got there.
When Vorclaf came back we tried to align ourselves with him and we talked Sirolarn out of the Keep. Then slowly but surely we whithered away in Dirge and one by one people left and now we're no more.
I'd love to get involved again in something like that but being in the US military in this day and age makes it very difficult to keep up with anything. Heck, I'm even writing this from Iraq right now.
Back to the point...
While in a real life sort of situation, our little government could have taken control of Leth and tried defending it against attacks from Zoluren...due to game mechanics, we are really unable to do it. The only way to work a situation like 'Freeing' Leth from the Human yoke would be to work with in the system because GMs are the only ones who can actually make changes within the world itself. As such, you have to force your characters to work along side the Nobility and show the proper respect or you won't get anywhere.
Bryan, player of Mordiazi and Straffus
What happened was Sirolarn, came and met with us in Leth...sent our arses to Dirge to become the government there. This was in order to prove our 'loyalty'. So we all move up to Dirge and set up there. While in Leth we were all Elven, so being 'in charge' of Dirge was a strain on our characters. It made for some fun RP once we got there.
When Vorclaf came back we tried to align ourselves with him and we talked Sirolarn out of the Keep. Then slowly but surely we whithered away in Dirge and one by one people left and now we're no more.
I'd love to get involved again in something like that but being in the US military in this day and age makes it very difficult to keep up with anything. Heck, I'm even writing this from Iraq right now.
Back to the point...
While in a real life sort of situation, our little government could have taken control of Leth and tried defending it against attacks from Zoluren...due to game mechanics, we are really unable to do it. The only way to work a situation like 'Freeing' Leth from the Human yoke would be to work with in the system because GMs are the only ones who can actually make changes within the world itself. As such, you have to force your characters to work along side the Nobility and show the proper respect or you won't get anywhere.
Bryan, player of Mordiazi and Straffus
EAGLECLAW
Re: Post addressing how nobility RP is treated by the majority at this moment(LO
04/09/2005 04:14 PM CDT
Mordi,
>While in a real life sort of situation, our little government could have taken control of Leth and tried defending it against attacks from Zoluren...due to game mechanics, we are really unable to do it. The only way to work a situation like 'Freeing' Leth from the Human yoke would be to work with in the system because GMs are the only ones who can actually make changes within the world itself. As such, you have to force your characters to work along side the Nobility and show the proper respect or you won't get anywhere.
That pretty much sums up how "we" dwarves did things. We met with the Prince, stated that we had always ruled ourselves under the leadership of the Dwarven Clan Elders and asked to continue that right. The Prince made an agreement with us to allow us to make our own "government' to handle dwarven concerns WITHIN the limits of the Stone Clan in return for our vow to come to the defense of Zoluren at his call.
I'm sure if you could form an Elven grouping/clan again, and seek an audience with the Prince, a similar accomodation might be possible. But first, one must submit and agree to the overall sovereignty of the established Nobility of your chosen Province. Anything else such as "full independence" is just not going to make RP sense for a Prince to agree to.
Redarch
Dwarf with an Axe.. Watch your toes!
>While in a real life sort of situation, our little government could have taken control of Leth and tried defending it against attacks from Zoluren...due to game mechanics, we are really unable to do it. The only way to work a situation like 'Freeing' Leth from the Human yoke would be to work with in the system because GMs are the only ones who can actually make changes within the world itself. As such, you have to force your characters to work along side the Nobility and show the proper respect or you won't get anywhere.
That pretty much sums up how "we" dwarves did things. We met with the Prince, stated that we had always ruled ourselves under the leadership of the Dwarven Clan Elders and asked to continue that right. The Prince made an agreement with us to allow us to make our own "government' to handle dwarven concerns WITHIN the limits of the Stone Clan in return for our vow to come to the defense of Zoluren at his call.
I'm sure if you could form an Elven grouping/clan again, and seek an audience with the Prince, a similar accomodation might be possible. But first, one must submit and agree to the overall sovereignty of the established Nobility of your chosen Province. Anything else such as "full independence" is just not going to make RP sense for a Prince to agree to.
Redarch
Dwarf with an Axe.. Watch your toes!
PALUMBOB
Re: Post addressing how nobility RP is treated by the majority at this moment(LO
04/10/2005 02:44 PM CDT
I'm really tempted to try it again. Problem is some OOC stuff (being in Iraq doesn't help matters), but if others would be willing to keep it up, I'll try it.
Another problem with Leth is that little kid, his pirate dad and his Rissan mom...God knows how the people of Leth would accept a Rissan mayor for so long, but apparently they do.
Another problem with Leth is that little kid, his pirate dad and his Rissan mom...God knows how the people of Leth would accept a Rissan mayor for so long, but apparently they do.
MEJE
Re: Post addressing how nobility RP is treated by the majority at this moment(LO
08/08/2005 10:50 AM CDT
if you could convice vorclaf to fork over full control of leth to elven peoples again, i'd be more than for it.
I was indirectly involved with the council years and years ago and heard much about what you guys did.
Unfortunately I like the L'karm style of doing things....cept for the losing part
Sentai.
The O.G.
I was indirectly involved with the council years and years ago and heard much about what you guys did.
Unfortunately I like the L'karm style of doing things....cept for the losing part
Sentai.
The O.G.
WILLIAMSC22
Re: Post addressing how nobility RP is treated by the majority at this moment(LO
08/08/2005 07:16 PM CDT
The Heir Keresyk who shall eventually take control of the city is Elven. He also has a claim to M'riss due to his father and as well to the throne of Zoluren. I don't personally believe that would be in the best interest of anyone(sides morganae of course) for leth to break away and join Morganae's realm. She has a tendancy to look out for her own interests. In terms of the relationship of Leth and M'riss they've been long time trading partners. Their fates are tied together in some respects. In any event i'd like see things happen up Dirge way myself. Just a thought.
Ibec Alshaerd of Zoluren
Stamped upon the parchment is the Crest of House Alshaerd. A grandeous phoenix rising from the Greater Fist of Heavens encircled by golden laurels.
MOORES14
Re: Post addressing how nobility RP is treated by the majority at this moment(LO
08/08/2005 09:11 PM CDT
Personally I would like to see an independant leth ruled by an elven council sort of like the way the rathan Government is set up.Instead of being based on a family structure like ratha though one made of from representatives of all the Clans.
I would never want to see Morganae hold sway over Leth anymore than i would want to see Sidhlot have sway.A council made up of equals of all the clans would eliminate or at least control both of those two elves dominion over leth.
I have sent a letter requesting a meeting with prince Vorclaf or one of his ministers to discuss setting Leth up as an autonomous state that would be allied to Zoluren.
I dont support the L'Karm because they hurt the cause of independance more than help it.I would join and support the L'Karm if i thought there was any chance of them prevailing and being able to hold leth against the combined armies of zoluren and its allies.
As it stands right now the L'karm cant even stand against the opreina moracul.M'Riss would most likely weigh in on the side of Zoluren just to defend keresyk's right to rule Leth.Not to mention the fact that I believe the current ruler of leth is Keresyk's mother.If we were able to convince Keresyk to support an independant leth deriel we might stand a fighting chance.Our natural allies to the south in Ilithi both Morganae and the elotheans of shard are probably in no condition to be much help.Nor am i Sure that the new ferdhal when chosen would even be inclined to intervene on our behalf.
So many questions unanswered and unanswerable for now anyway.Anyone interested in getting together a tenative council of the clans for a meeting with the goverment of zoluren should seek me out on ratha.I am trying to form a council on the islands because they rathan have no vested interest in Leth and are less likely to hunt us down for sedition and treason.
OOC:I really want to form a council of the elven clans and to do this i need people who Enjoy to RP their clan to get together and pick representatives from each clan.Anyone interested should attempt to contact me IG on ratha.I have tried in the past to drum up support for an IG movement to free leth but most folks didnt want to take time out of their training.I thought i would try again to see what kind of RP support can be built.Heck even if you want to RP the opposing side and be an elf who supports the Zoluren government that would be fun to RP also.
Crymthann
I would never want to see Morganae hold sway over Leth anymore than i would want to see Sidhlot have sway.A council made up of equals of all the clans would eliminate or at least control both of those two elves dominion over leth.
I have sent a letter requesting a meeting with prince Vorclaf or one of his ministers to discuss setting Leth up as an autonomous state that would be allied to Zoluren.
I dont support the L'Karm because they hurt the cause of independance more than help it.I would join and support the L'Karm if i thought there was any chance of them prevailing and being able to hold leth against the combined armies of zoluren and its allies.
As it stands right now the L'karm cant even stand against the opreina moracul.M'Riss would most likely weigh in on the side of Zoluren just to defend keresyk's right to rule Leth.Not to mention the fact that I believe the current ruler of leth is Keresyk's mother.If we were able to convince Keresyk to support an independant leth deriel we might stand a fighting chance.Our natural allies to the south in Ilithi both Morganae and the elotheans of shard are probably in no condition to be much help.Nor am i Sure that the new ferdhal when chosen would even be inclined to intervene on our behalf.
So many questions unanswered and unanswerable for now anyway.Anyone interested in getting together a tenative council of the clans for a meeting with the goverment of zoluren should seek me out on ratha.I am trying to form a council on the islands because they rathan have no vested interest in Leth and are less likely to hunt us down for sedition and treason.
OOC:I really want to form a council of the elven clans and to do this i need people who Enjoy to RP their clan to get together and pick representatives from each clan.Anyone interested should attempt to contact me IG on ratha.I have tried in the past to drum up support for an IG movement to free leth but most folks didnt want to take time out of their training.I thought i would try again to see what kind of RP support can be built.Heck even if you want to RP the opposing side and be an elf who supports the Zoluren government that would be fun to RP also.
Crymthann
DREAMWEAVER
Re: Post addressing how nobility RP is treated by the majority at this moment(LO
08/09/2005 10:03 AM CDT
>>Not to mention the fact that I believe the current ruler of leth is Keresyk's mother.
The Lady Lindryl stepped down some years ago, and the Lord Regent Mayor was appointed until Keresyk was of age to rule.
~Dreamheart
P.S. Some advice: I would think two, three, maybe even four times before going to the ruler of the province and asking him if you could cut out a portion of his province, leaving it for the most part defenseless against the known enemies and ... shall we say aggressors. That does not even begin to deal with the Keresyk factor.
The Lady Lindryl stepped down some years ago, and the Lord Regent Mayor was appointed until Keresyk was of age to rule.
~Dreamheart
P.S. Some advice: I would think two, three, maybe even four times before going to the ruler of the province and asking him if you could cut out a portion of his province, leaving it for the most part defenseless against the known enemies and ... shall we say aggressors. That does not even begin to deal with the Keresyk factor.
MSLKA
Re: Post addressing how nobility RP is treated by the majority at this moment(LO
08/09/2005 12:19 PM CDT
>P.S. Some advice: I would think two, three, maybe even four times before
I can't think of to many rulers who would care to give up a portion of land and income to their throne. Unless they were receiving something of greater value in return for it, like a different section of land. Course, revolutions and crusades also liberate sections of land for their homelands or themselves..... Hhhhmmmm...wonder if Vorclaf might not see this request as a possible revolt/war?
~Eoworfinia~
A snow goblin reaches down and gently pets your corpse, then quickly looks about to make sure no one noticed.
I can't think of to many rulers who would care to give up a portion of land and income to their throne. Unless they were receiving something of greater value in return for it, like a different section of land. Course, revolutions and crusades also liberate sections of land for their homelands or themselves..... Hhhhmmmm...wonder if Vorclaf might not see this request as a possible revolt/war?
~Eoworfinia~
A snow goblin reaches down and gently pets your corpse, then quickly looks about to make sure no one noticed.
MOORES14
Re: Post addressing how nobility RP is treated by the majority at this moment(LO
08/10/2005 12:20 AM CDT
Vorclaf could potentially see this as revolt except revolutionaries rarely ask permission.There is alot for vorclaf to gain from allowing leth to be an autonomous state.First is that fact that Zoluren does not have to subsidize the province,A real world example would be the principality of Monaco.The french throne allowed it to be an autonomous state for nearly the last 4 centuries.I remains under french dominion but still manages to be a seperate state.We wont even mention the smallest state in the world vatican city.which while being a part of Rome is still a seperate state.It can Happen and it does happen whether vorclaf would allow it is another matter.
If my goal was to be revolutionary i wouldnt have asked for an audience i would have started a war.
If my goal was to be revolutionary i wouldnt have asked for an audience i would have started a war.
WILLIAMSC22
Re: Post addressing how nobility RP is treated by the majority at this moment(LO
08/10/2005 08:39 PM CDT
Definantly a good point there are different degrees of autonomy. I'd actually also like to see a council there with the changes in the government structure in the province it hopefully will be able to better facilitate one. One of the drawbacks for something like the former Dirge council was the lack of structure on the higher end. In otherwords you didn't have many channels to go through. With anyluck there will be more in place for things to happen in places like Dirge or Leth. Just a thought.
~Ibec Alshaerd
Stamped upon the parchment is the Crest of House Alshaerd. A grandeous phoenix rising from the Greater Fist of Heavens encircled by golden laurels.
