Hoping someone who is far more knowledgeable about alterations is able to help me out here. I was wondering if it is at all possible to alter a parry stick to be part of a broken sword or blade of some sort. Would love some way to make the stick more unique as they are pretty bland for the most part.
FATBOY30269
FLINT-TIPPED
Re: Parry Stick Alteration
10/21/2015 01:03 AM CDT
There are parry sticks that aren't 'parry' 'sticks' if that helps. Not sure how tough it is to get them to alter the noun on an existing stick. I too wish there was more variation in parry sticks.
https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Weapon:Fused_arm_splint_with_supple_leather_straps
https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Weapon:Calcified_femur
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https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Weapon:Fused_arm_splint_with_supple_leather_straps
https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Weapon:Calcified_femur
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GAMERGIRL151
Re: Parry Stick Alteration
10/21/2015 03:26 AM CDT
There have been parry sticks that are blades, but most of these have been Auction items, so I don't think this is something you are going to be able to do via alteration. Auction item https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Weapon:Superbly-balanced_kertig_parrying_blade_with_delicate_platinum_clasps
Generally you can only change a noun into a similar noun. A hat can be a cap, but a sword can't become an axe. Changing a "stick" into a blade or something with an edge is typically going to be a no, but you could do something similar without changing the noun itself. I'm not sure how familiar you are with items and alterations so I'll give a quick rough example. I apologise if you already are familiar with this information, but given that the festival is upcoming others may find this helpful as well.
I'll start with this as a base: https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Weapon:Iron-banded_parry_stick_with_brown_leather_straps
Original item TAP: an iron-banded parry stick with brown leather straps
Original item LOOK: Thin iron bands flank each of the straps used to affix the parry stick to an arm, preventing the straps from sliding across the stick at an inconvenient moment.
New item TAP: a lumium parry stick with a slender blade
Alternative item TAP: a lumium parry rod with a slender blade (a merchant may be willing to to ROD, BAR or another synonym in place of the word stick.)
New item LOOK: Affixed parallel to the traditional structure of a parry stick is a slender lumium blade, positioned so that it might aid in deflecting incoming blows when worn. Though a purely defensive item, the blade still possesses an keen edge and requires handling with care. A series of sturdy ties and buckles serve to firmly affix the accessory to the wearer, ensuring that they are both discretely tucked out of sight and unlikely to come undone in the middle of a battle.
So in this example the noun still stays a stick, and possibly a ROD or BAR if a merchant will allow that. What you'll see when you use it in combat would be the short version.
You repulse some of the <enemy weapon> with a <adj> <noun>.
You repulse some of the <enemy weapon> with a parry stick.
You repulse some of the <enemy weapon> with a parry rod.
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.
Generally you can only change a noun into a similar noun. A hat can be a cap, but a sword can't become an axe. Changing a "stick" into a blade or something with an edge is typically going to be a no, but you could do something similar without changing the noun itself. I'm not sure how familiar you are with items and alterations so I'll give a quick rough example. I apologise if you already are familiar with this information, but given that the festival is upcoming others may find this helpful as well.
I'll start with this as a base: https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Weapon:Iron-banded_parry_stick_with_brown_leather_straps
Original item TAP: an iron-banded parry stick with brown leather straps
Original item LOOK: Thin iron bands flank each of the straps used to affix the parry stick to an arm, preventing the straps from sliding across the stick at an inconvenient moment.
New item TAP: a lumium parry stick with a slender blade
Alternative item TAP: a lumium parry rod with a slender blade (a merchant may be willing to to ROD, BAR or another synonym in place of the word stick.)
New item LOOK: Affixed parallel to the traditional structure of a parry stick is a slender lumium blade, positioned so that it might aid in deflecting incoming blows when worn. Though a purely defensive item, the blade still possesses an keen edge and requires handling with care. A series of sturdy ties and buckles serve to firmly affix the accessory to the wearer, ensuring that they are both discretely tucked out of sight and unlikely to come undone in the middle of a battle.
So in this example the noun still stays a stick, and possibly a ROD or BAR if a merchant will allow that. What you'll see when you use it in combat would be the short version.
You repulse some of the <enemy weapon> with a <adj> <noun>.
You repulse some of the <enemy weapon> with a parry stick.
You repulse some of the <enemy weapon> with a parry rod.
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.
GAMERGIRL151
Re: Parry Stick Alteration
10/21/2015 03:33 AM CDT
Oh and I forgot to say, like FLINT-TIPPED suggested, if you start with a base item that's as close to the noun you want it helps.
So, there are parry sticks out there that aren't sticks like he listed. If you find one that isn't a blade, but is similar in noun to what you want, you typically want to use that as a base instead of a "parry stick". (Unless the stats on it aren't what you want, which is typically only a problem with items that have stats like weapons and armor.) However, in this situation there aren't a large variety of parrying items out there.
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.
So, there are parry sticks out there that aren't sticks like he listed. If you find one that isn't a blade, but is similar in noun to what you want, you typically want to use that as a base instead of a "parry stick". (Unless the stats on it aren't what you want, which is typically only a problem with items that have stats like weapons and armor.) However, in this situation there aren't a large variety of parrying items out there.
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Parry Stick Alteration
10/21/2015 12:52 PM CDT
I tend to just break out a thesaurus and hope for the best when I want to change a noun. It hasn't really failed me as a strategy so far.
This is my roundabout way of saying you probably can't make a parry stick into a blade, but baton or cane or stave might work.
Just go in with alternative plans and it tends to work out. I've very rarely had GMs say "this can't change at all." Normally it's "this can't work for reasons, but maybe this alternative can do."
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
This is my roundabout way of saying you probably can't make a parry stick into a blade, but baton or cane or stave might work.
Just go in with alternative plans and it tends to work out. I've very rarely had GMs say "this can't change at all." Normally it's "this can't work for reasons, but maybe this alternative can do."
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
BENNETTJ13
Re: Parry Stick Alteration
10/21/2015 03:55 PM CDT
Weapons and armor cannot change nouns under new alteration guidelines set out last year. I do a LOT of consulting for alters and this was explicitly put out. You may find some random GM who will bend the rules, but good luck. I highly doubt it. I have tried several times in the past. I really wanted my cowl to be a hat. Even something that is just changing to a similar noun in the thesaurus is a no go now for weapons and armor.
That being said, things that are not weapons and armor may still be done as long as the base type of item remains the same. So you could in essence break out the thesaurus and turn your cowl into a hat, as long as it wasn't armor. It's not a guarantee, but it may be possible.
This is all based off of the last consult session I did during last HE. Things may have changed.
Monster Elec
You hear the distant echo of a savage Horde snarling in barbaric disapproval of your deeds.
That being said, things that are not weapons and armor may still be done as long as the base type of item remains the same. So you could in essence break out the thesaurus and turn your cowl into a hat, as long as it wasn't armor. It's not a guarantee, but it may be possible.
This is all based off of the last consult session I did during last HE. Things may have changed.
Monster Elec
You hear the distant echo of a savage Horde snarling in barbaric disapproval of your deeds.
THAYET
Re: Parry Stick Alteration
10/21/2015 04:04 PM CDT
I think the noun restriction on weapon/armor items is related to the stats each specific noun is supposed to have and not straying from that. Parry sticks are technically weapons but I swear I've seen the noun changed during alterations (I wanna say Ponqzha did one for someone recently) so it should be fine.
Thayet
Twitter: @thayelf
Tumblr: thayette.tumblr.com
Thayet
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FATBOY30269
Re: Parry Stick Alteration
10/21/2015 05:21 PM CDT
Really appreciate all the input everyone, my idea was sort of to design my character as a battle survivor of sorts and using an old blade from a vanquished foe seems like a pretty decent idea for a makeshift item in a war or what not. Based upon someones recommendation earlier, do you think it would be possible to do that with the parry stick blade mentioned earlier, or would that fall under the stick has to be rod/staff/cane type noun.
Although I ask that, I think finding one of those might be impossible as there is none listed on the trader shop list. I imagine that is a pretty desired item as its unique.
Although I ask that, I think finding one of those might be impossible as there is none listed on the trader shop list. I imagine that is a pretty desired item as its unique.
GAMERGIRL151
Re: Parry Stick Alteration
10/21/2015 05:42 PM CDT
The blade I linked before was an auction item. Auction items are unique in that they are GM created, and only available at specific events like Hollow Eve or other auctions in limited quantity. There are typically very few of them in game. In the case of the blade, I believe there's maybe 2 of them total in existence in Prime and the would go for tens of thousands of platinum.
>would that fall under the stick has to be rod/staff/cane type noun.
You'll have to stick with the same type of noun. Noun changes on weapons and armor are more limited than on "fluff" items to begin with. Making a stick into a blade isn't likely to happen.
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.
>would that fall under the stick has to be rod/staff/cane type noun.
You'll have to stick with the same type of noun. Noun changes on weapons and armor are more limited than on "fluff" items to begin with. Making a stick into a blade isn't likely to happen.
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.
ISHARON
Re: Parry Stick Alteration
10/21/2015 06:13 PM CDT
>>Fatboy30269: Based upon someones recommendation earlier, do you think it would be possible to do that with the parry stick blade mentioned earlier, or would that fall under the stick has to be rod/staff/cane type noun.
The odds of getting "stick" changed to "blade" are not good. In general, they won't change the nouns on weapons and armor, but even when they do change the nouns, it has to be something similar.
You may still be able to incorporate a blade into the design, however.
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The odds of getting "stick" changed to "blade" are not good. In general, they won't change the nouns on weapons and armor, but even when they do change the nouns, it has to be something similar.
You may still be able to incorporate a blade into the design, however.
Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall rank!
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BADGOPHER
Re: Parry Stick Alteration
10/21/2015 06:16 PM CDT
>I tend to just break out a thesaurus and hope for the best when I want to change a noun. It hasn't really failed me as a strategy so far.
I think it's worth mentioning that you mostly play in Plat, where the alteration rules are a bit more lax, due to the awesome environment. Probably not a great idea to transpose those.
I think it's worth mentioning that you mostly play in Plat, where the alteration rules are a bit more lax, due to the awesome environment. Probably not a great idea to transpose those.
FLINT-TIPPED
Re: Parry Stick Alteration
10/21/2015 06:57 PM CDT
Another option (if you don't have any luck with noun adjustment) is to get a weapon hider to hide your regular parry stick, then have a general worn item altered to your broken off blade design and wear that openly.
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TEVESHSZAT
Re: Parry Stick Alteration
10/21/2015 11:13 PM CDT
>>I think it's worth mentioning that you mostly play in Plat, where the alteration rules are a bit more lax, due to the awesome environment. Probably not a great idea to transpose those.
I'm using the same rules I used as when I was in Prime. Don't stray from the concept of the base item, be comfortable with a thesaurus, and accept that some things may change.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
I'm using the same rules I used as when I was in Prime. Don't stray from the concept of the base item, be comfortable with a thesaurus, and accept that some things may change.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Parry Stick Alteration
10/21/2015 11:30 PM CDT
As an aside, when it came to weapons/armor that have specific properties, I don't think it was ever possible to turn an item that typically has one set of properties into something with another set of properties (or unspeculated properties). So you can't turn a broadsword into a longsword, since they're different things in DR. That's probably also why you can't turn a cowl into a hat.
I think parry weapons in particular may be a grey area because there is currently no definition of what makes a parry item beyond "some pole-like thing you strap to your arm". As others said, along with sticks we have femurs and so on that share the same base template, so saying "rod" vs "stick" is not a dynamic change (as opposed to stick vs blade). Heck, with the exception of the parry blade, I think every parry stick/femur/etc use the same template that's been around since forever.
At the same time, now that some weapons are now codified as having the same template, I wonder if the rules have expanded vs contracted. For example, a dao and an oben are now literally the same thing according to crafting 3.0. Game rules themselves acknowledge they're the same thing, so I wonder if it's possible to tweak those.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
I think parry weapons in particular may be a grey area because there is currently no definition of what makes a parry item beyond "some pole-like thing you strap to your arm". As others said, along with sticks we have femurs and so on that share the same base template, so saying "rod" vs "stick" is not a dynamic change (as opposed to stick vs blade). Heck, with the exception of the parry blade, I think every parry stick/femur/etc use the same template that's been around since forever.
At the same time, now that some weapons are now codified as having the same template, I wonder if the rules have expanded vs contracted. For example, a dao and an oben are now literally the same thing according to crafting 3.0. Game rules themselves acknowledge they're the same thing, so I wonder if it's possible to tweak those.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
DR-NAOHHI
Re: Parry Stick Alteration
10/22/2015 09:32 AM CDT
>>Weapons and armor cannot change nouns under new alteration guidelines set out last year.
It's been a rule for much longer, but some GMs either forgot or thought a very close synonym would be OK. (I'm guilty of this, myself.) Ie: helm to to helmet or balaclava. Those are usually approved, but most other noun changes for armor are not approved. If you have something you think is a very close synonym, I encourage you to ask about it prior so that a GM can check with Kodius for formal approval, otherwise, you'll be told no.
>>parry stick noun changes
Right now, I'm not aware of any strident rules on parry sticks, and we've made some fairly non-traditional ones such as the arm splint and the calcified femur. If that changes, I'm sure we'll make everyone aware. If you intend on asking for a noun change on a parry stick, make sure you ask if the alterer is OK with that. Have a backup plan in case they're not. Otherwise, a noun change can be rejected or approved depending on if your proposed change makes sense for a parry stick. A parry stick that is also a weapon or described as a weapon likely will not be approved because of items in the past that were detailed and coded as such and are considered to be rare.
It may also come out that we don't want to do parry stick noun changes because we feel the unique options should come from shops, auctions, or quests only so that staff has better QC control over what kind of unique parry sticks get out.
>>Ponqzha did one.
Yes, he did. The proposed idea made sense for a parry stick and it was that GM's decision. If a rule is put in place, that alteration may become "illegal." We won't go change it, but we won't do it again "just because we did it once."
I hope this answers some questions!
---
NaOH+HI
It's been a rule for much longer, but some GMs either forgot or thought a very close synonym would be OK. (I'm guilty of this, myself.) Ie: helm to to helmet or balaclava. Those are usually approved, but most other noun changes for armor are not approved. If you have something you think is a very close synonym, I encourage you to ask about it prior so that a GM can check with Kodius for formal approval, otherwise, you'll be told no.
>>parry stick noun changes
Right now, I'm not aware of any strident rules on parry sticks, and we've made some fairly non-traditional ones such as the arm splint and the calcified femur. If that changes, I'm sure we'll make everyone aware. If you intend on asking for a noun change on a parry stick, make sure you ask if the alterer is OK with that. Have a backup plan in case they're not. Otherwise, a noun change can be rejected or approved depending on if your proposed change makes sense for a parry stick. A parry stick that is also a weapon or described as a weapon likely will not be approved because of items in the past that were detailed and coded as such and are considered to be rare.
It may also come out that we don't want to do parry stick noun changes because we feel the unique options should come from shops, auctions, or quests only so that staff has better QC control over what kind of unique parry sticks get out.
>>Ponqzha did one.
Yes, he did. The proposed idea made sense for a parry stick and it was that GM's decision. If a rule is put in place, that alteration may become "illegal." We won't go change it, but we won't do it again "just because we did it once."
I hope this answers some questions!
---
NaOH+HI
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Parry Stick Alteration
10/22/2015 11:40 AM CDT
>>I encourage you to ask about it prior so that a GM can check with Kodius for formal approval, otherwise, you'll be told no.
it would be neat if GMs (Kodius or otherwise) could weigh in on if weapons that share the same core templates can be renamed accordingly as a blanket rule (ie: dao and oben are the same in crafting 3.0).
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
it would be neat if GMs (Kodius or otherwise) could weigh in on if weapons that share the same core templates can be renamed accordingly as a blanket rule (ie: dao and oben are the same in crafting 3.0).
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
NIKPACK
Re: Parry Stick Alteration
10/22/2015 03:38 PM CDT
<<it would be neat if GMs (Kodius or otherwise) could weigh in on if weapons that share the same core templates can be renamed accordingly as a blanket rule (ie: dao and oben are the same in crafting 3.0).
Personally, I like the more fluid policy of what I will title as "GM Discretion." Any ruling can be misconstrued as a hard fast rule that a GM must follow and provides a potential avenue for people to complain if they can't get it their way.
Right now the rule is sometimes. You might get it, you might not. Always have a backup idea.
Nikpack
Personally, I like the more fluid policy of what I will title as "GM Discretion." Any ruling can be misconstrued as a hard fast rule that a GM must follow and provides a potential avenue for people to complain if they can't get it their way.
Right now the rule is sometimes. You might get it, you might not. Always have a backup idea.
Nikpack
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Parry Stick Alteration
10/22/2015 06:18 PM CDT
>>Personally, I like the more fluid policy of what I will title as "GM Discretion." Any ruling can be misconstrued as a hard fast rule that a GM must follow and provides a potential avenue for people to complain if they can't get it their way.
I have nothing against fluid rules, but having an expansion of the ground rules doesn't mean we can't have fluid ones.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
I have nothing against fluid rules, but having an expansion of the ground rules doesn't mean we can't have fluid ones.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
