I'm trying to get a final copy for a Tyrium Balaclava, for an face to face alteration I won (<- actually won on alteration wow, feels pretty nice).
These are two different set-ups almost identical, the first sentence where form and shape are switched about should be the only difference,
"The finely polished tyrium scales, which have been shaped in the form of a serpent's head, gleam with the metal's characteristic deep purple hue. The visor has been replaced with tyrium scales that have been carefully placed to form two slitted eyes. Matching night diamonds form a circlet that crowns the head of the serpent. These gemstones sparkle with countless tiny specks of silver among the dark shadows within the interwoven piece."
or
"The finely polished tyrium scales, which have been formed into the shape of a serpent's head, gleam with the metal's characteristic deep purple hue. The visor has been replaced with tyrium scales that have been carefully placed to form two slitted eyes. Matching night diamonds form a circlet that crowns the head of the serpent. These gemstones sparkle with countless tiny specks of silver among the dark shadows within the interwoven piece."
These are the best drafts I have right now. Just hoping that maybe someone may have something that has the same feel, but using other words brings the concept into vision more sharply. I like the slitted eyes, but I think it could have a better visual. And overall I think its flow may be better. Any help will be appreciated.
I'm also thinking something like [for the first line] which have been formed in the visage of a serpent, gleam (and so forth).
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Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
SHADOW7988
SPANTONV
Re: Tyrium Balaclava
07/04/2011 09:19 PM CDT
Not to burst your creative bubble, but do you know what a balaclava looks like? 1) There is no visor on it, 2) I'm not aware of scales on it, they are made from chain links. I hope that helps you visualize what a balaclava looks like.
SHADOW7988
Re: Tyrium Balaclava
07/04/2011 09:54 PM CDT
Part of the reason I was asking for help, and yes I do know what a balaclava looks like, and no they aren't just made out of chain mail, untill recently (about two years ago, I had only thought they were relatively new things that spec-ops and SWAT teams used), visor might be the wrong word, so if the view through area isn't called a visor, what would be a more correct noun to use?
Your help, while I appreciate it, seems very negative. I was more looking for, maybe use this word then those words, or while this might make it longer it would make it more visually right to use this.
Thanks though,
Shadow7988
_____________________________________
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
Your help, while I appreciate it, seems very negative. I was more looking for, maybe use this word then those words, or while this might make it longer it would make it more visually right to use this.
Thanks though,
Shadow7988
_____________________________________
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
KROONERMANREVENGE
Re: Tyrium Balaclava
07/04/2011 10:14 PM CDT
The balaclava is going to be a chain item, right? If so, it won't have 'scales'. It will have chain links. A 'scale' type helm would probably fall into lp/hp (or HP/brig). There are a few items in the Xings general store that say scale but may teach either plate or chain; this is a bad system thing.
If your base item covers the eyes, it's safe to assume it has some type of visor, though most of the time this would be included in the description (a visored coif, for example).
I think your description suffers from word-over-use, for lack of a better explanation. You're clearly going for the snake thing. But the slotted eyes just seems sandwiched in there because you thought it was cool. It's not thematic. A suggestion would be to look at armor from previous fests/events, and see how those items went about doing looks.
You also don't need to drop the Tyrium bomb in the item description (unless it's part of the special properties of altering Tyrium), it can be in the tap for the thing. And as Tyrium is a special-unique metal, the balaclava will have to have been actually forged from Tyrium to be named 'a tyrium thingy', I believe. If you're just going to use the material on an existing plain-steel helmet, I think you can do additions, but it will A) not change the analyze/app to reflect Tyrium content, B) probably not allow the word tyrium to describe the item, C) Kinda be a waste of tyrium. My simple suggestion:
tap: A tyrium balaclava shaped like a serpent head
Look: The chain links in this balaclava have been cunningly shaped to resemble the scales of a serpent. On the head is a circle of diamonds (or whatever you were going for).
If your base item covers the eyes, it's safe to assume it has some type of visor, though most of the time this would be included in the description (a visored coif, for example).
I think your description suffers from word-over-use, for lack of a better explanation. You're clearly going for the snake thing. But the slotted eyes just seems sandwiched in there because you thought it was cool. It's not thematic. A suggestion would be to look at armor from previous fests/events, and see how those items went about doing looks.
You also don't need to drop the Tyrium bomb in the item description (unless it's part of the special properties of altering Tyrium), it can be in the tap for the thing. And as Tyrium is a special-unique metal, the balaclava will have to have been actually forged from Tyrium to be named 'a tyrium thingy', I believe. If you're just going to use the material on an existing plain-steel helmet, I think you can do additions, but it will A) not change the analyze/app to reflect Tyrium content, B) probably not allow the word tyrium to describe the item, C) Kinda be a waste of tyrium. My simple suggestion:
tap: A tyrium balaclava shaped like a serpent head
Look: The chain links in this balaclava have been cunningly shaped to resemble the scales of a serpent. On the head is a circle of diamonds (or whatever you were going for).
FUTILITY
Re: Tyrium Balaclava
07/05/2011 03:07 AM CDT
Balaclavas are typically open-faced or cover everything but the eyes. Think a chain-mail cowl.
As far as chainmail goes, there are three common link patterns: four-link, with each ring connected to three other rings, generally the lightest kind of chain link, although three-link is possible, it's very tricky to get it to provide adequate protection. Six-link, with each ring connected to five other rings, and eight-link, with each ring connected to seven other rings. Beyond that the mail lacks flexibility and thus stops providing the best protection.
The balaclavas that are sold in DR might have (solid metal) faceguards considering they provide eye protection, but they won't have a "visor" per se.
>>The finely polished tyrium scales, which have been formed into the shape of a serpent's head, gleam with the metal's characteristic deep purple hue. The visor has been replaced with tyrium scales that have been carefully placed to form two slitted eyes. Matching night diamonds form a circlet that crowns the head of the serpent. These gemstones sparkle with countless tiny specks of silver among the dark shadows within the interwoven piece.
Could become: Tyrium rings worked into a six-interlocking pattern have a fine purple-tinted sheen, with silver lengths of wire interwoven to suggest the shape of serpent heads in the chainmail. A tyrium faceguard has been shaped into the appearance of two slitted eyes over a fanged mouth.
I'm not a huge fan of jewel-encrusting combat gear myself, but if that's your bag, go for it.
As far as chainmail goes, there are three common link patterns: four-link, with each ring connected to three other rings, generally the lightest kind of chain link, although three-link is possible, it's very tricky to get it to provide adequate protection. Six-link, with each ring connected to five other rings, and eight-link, with each ring connected to seven other rings. Beyond that the mail lacks flexibility and thus stops providing the best protection.
The balaclavas that are sold in DR might have (solid metal) faceguards considering they provide eye protection, but they won't have a "visor" per se.
>>The finely polished tyrium scales, which have been formed into the shape of a serpent's head, gleam with the metal's characteristic deep purple hue. The visor has been replaced with tyrium scales that have been carefully placed to form two slitted eyes. Matching night diamonds form a circlet that crowns the head of the serpent. These gemstones sparkle with countless tiny specks of silver among the dark shadows within the interwoven piece.
Could become: Tyrium rings worked into a six-interlocking pattern have a fine purple-tinted sheen, with silver lengths of wire interwoven to suggest the shape of serpent heads in the chainmail. A tyrium faceguard has been shaped into the appearance of two slitted eyes over a fanged mouth.
I'm not a huge fan of jewel-encrusting combat gear myself, but if that's your bag, go for it.
SHADOW7988
Re: Tyrium Balaclava
07/05/2011 04:14 PM CDT
This is the next edit:
The finely polished tyrium scales, which gleam with the metal's characteristic deep purple hue, form into the visage of a serpent with its slit-like eyes as the balaclava's visor. An interstitial layer of wool protects the user while both holding the scales and allowing freedom of movement. Matching night diamonds, secured in settings on top of the scales form a circlet that crowns the head, sparkling with the countless tiny specks of silver among the dark shadows within the interwoven piece.
This was actually cleared by the GM, however I am still wondering about the visor. Or anything else that is glaringly wrong, despite it not being noticed by either me or the GM.
For your information, the item was originally a balaclava from the festival, and quickly off-hand, I know there has been cloth balaclavas, including a steelsilk one, as well as a the more normal chain balaclavas.
Maybe the visor (or whatever the proper name for the opening is) should have been the outline of slit-like eyes.
All I know is I like it, and the GM thought it was fine work we had put together.
_____________________________________
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
The finely polished tyrium scales, which gleam with the metal's characteristic deep purple hue, form into the visage of a serpent with its slit-like eyes as the balaclava's visor. An interstitial layer of wool protects the user while both holding the scales and allowing freedom of movement. Matching night diamonds, secured in settings on top of the scales form a circlet that crowns the head, sparkling with the countless tiny specks of silver among the dark shadows within the interwoven piece.
This was actually cleared by the GM, however I am still wondering about the visor. Or anything else that is glaringly wrong, despite it not being noticed by either me or the GM.
For your information, the item was originally a balaclava from the festival, and quickly off-hand, I know there has been cloth balaclavas, including a steelsilk one, as well as a the more normal chain balaclavas.
Maybe the visor (or whatever the proper name for the opening is) should have been the outline of slit-like eyes.
All I know is I like it, and the GM thought it was fine work we had put together.
_____________________________________
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
ANOUSHKA
Re: Tyrium Balaclava
07/05/2011 05:02 PM CDT
The night diamonds should sparkle - in your description you have "Matching night diamonds...sparkling"
POWERHAUS
Re: Tyrium Balaclava
07/05/2011 05:12 PM CDT
well there's visored coif's which are essensially a balaclava with a visor, and they have modern day cloth ski/combat balaclavas with visors too...but they're not adjustable
I figure it's be a few simple rivets or maybe a riveted leather strap would easily attach it, and scales could be decoration attached to the links by more links(like hanging beads or feathering)
but..
I was trying to do something like this with or without a stiltskitter visor awhile back and was told only stiltskitter could adjust his visored stuff, a visor balaclava was ok if I provided the visor for foder; but scales metal or skinned wouldn't work, cause it falls into mixed armor type, even though there is scaled chain armor for sale. So kind of suprised that part passed, but I guess it's an ltb thing so it's a bit more lenient?
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The fabric of the universe seems to wobble momentarily. Uh, what did you just do?
I figure it's be a few simple rivets or maybe a riveted leather strap would easily attach it, and scales could be decoration attached to the links by more links(like hanging beads or feathering)
but..
I was trying to do something like this with or without a stiltskitter visor awhile back and was told only stiltskitter could adjust his visored stuff, a visor balaclava was ok if I provided the visor for foder; but scales metal or skinned wouldn't work, cause it falls into mixed armor type, even though there is scaled chain armor for sale. So kind of suprised that part passed, but I guess it's an ltb thing so it's a bit more lenient?
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The fabric of the universe seems to wobble momentarily. Uh, what did you just do?
DANFORDS2
Re: Tyrium Balaclava
07/05/2011 11:04 PM CDT
>combat balaclavas with visors too...but they're not adjustable
What do you mean by adjustable? I have an Army issue cold weather balaclava that's adjustable in every way I can imagine it being adjustable. And it has a visor.
Elemental Lord Opieus, Expert Warrior Mage of Elanthia
"For a bunch of radical empiricists, the Philosophers' system relies on a whole lot of faith." ~Armifer
What do you mean by adjustable? I have an Army issue cold weather balaclava that's adjustable in every way I can imagine it being adjustable. And it has a visor.
Elemental Lord Opieus, Expert Warrior Mage of Elanthia
"For a bunch of radical empiricists, the Philosophers' system relies on a whole lot of faith." ~Armifer
POWERHAUS
Re: Tyrium Balaclava
07/06/2011 09:40 AM CDT
>What do you mean by adjustable? I have an Army issue cold weather balaclava that's adjustable in every way I can imagine it being adjustable. And it has a visor.
I meant adjustable, like the stiltskitter helms-
2 kinds of visors-
google 'visor balaclava' and the visor is attached like the bill of a hat, the hood itself is adjustable, not the visor
google 'visor helm' and you get the plate style helm with the visor that slides or hinges over the face.
I have yet to see an actual picture of anything 'real' like either of these made with chain though.
LOOK:
It is a matte-black visored helm with magnificent wings sweeping back
from either side. Attached to it is a matte-black visor in the shape
of the head and body of a swooping falcon with bronze talons outstretched.
Look self(with visor closed):
Your features are covered by a matte-black visor in the shape of the
head and body of a swooping falcon with bronze talons outstretched.
CLOSE VISOR:
You close the visor of your visored helm.
OPEN VISOR:
You open the visor of your visored helm.
Attaching a hinged plate visor to a limp chain hood seems kind of weird to me, but they did make the Stiltskitter helms.
a spangen helm decorated with elaborate brass and copper piercework - It is a spangen helm decorated with elaborate brass and copper piercework. Attached to it is an oval visor impressively decorated with brass piercework to resemble a stylized bearded face.
_________________________________
The fabric of the universe seems to wobble momentarily. Uh, what did you just do?
I meant adjustable, like the stiltskitter helms-
2 kinds of visors-
google 'visor balaclava' and the visor is attached like the bill of a hat, the hood itself is adjustable, not the visor
google 'visor helm' and you get the plate style helm with the visor that slides or hinges over the face.
I have yet to see an actual picture of anything 'real' like either of these made with chain though.
LOOK:
It is a matte-black visored helm with magnificent wings sweeping back
from either side. Attached to it is a matte-black visor in the shape
of the head and body of a swooping falcon with bronze talons outstretched.
Look self(with visor closed):
Your features are covered by a matte-black visor in the shape of the
head and body of a swooping falcon with bronze talons outstretched.
CLOSE VISOR:
You close the visor of your visored helm.
OPEN VISOR:
You open the visor of your visored helm.
Attaching a hinged plate visor to a limp chain hood seems kind of weird to me, but they did make the Stiltskitter helms.
a spangen helm decorated with elaborate brass and copper piercework - It is a spangen helm decorated with elaborate brass and copper piercework. Attached to it is an oval visor impressively decorated with brass piercework to resemble a stylized bearded face.
_________________________________
The fabric of the universe seems to wobble momentarily. Uh, what did you just do?
NEELD
Re: Tyrium Balaclava
07/15/2011 09:22 AM CDT
Needs words written in diamond dust, otherwise, it simply is not complete.
P.S. This is an inside joke.
Madigan
P.S. This is an inside joke.
Madigan
SHADOW7988
Re: Tyrium Balaclava
07/16/2011 12:07 PM CDT
About a Paladin long retired, by the name of Rock?
_____________________________________
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
_____________________________________
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
NEELD
Re: Tyrium Balaclava
07/18/2011 09:03 AM CDT
<<About a Paladin long retired, by the name of Rock?
Why yes, yes it is.
Madigan
Why yes, yes it is.
Madigan
SHADOW7988
Re: Tyrium Balaclava
07/18/2011 04:38 PM CDT
I pay attention.
_____________________________________
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
_____________________________________
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
RIDDLYN069
Re: Tyrium Balaclava
08/31/2011 11:06 PM CDT
Can a noun be changed to a synonym if the word is already something in DR.
BLUERIDER
Re: Tyrium Balaclava
09/01/2011 01:39 AM CDT
It depends on the noun. Apparently some nouns actually define what the item is. So for example a "bag" and a "sack" could be treated as two completely different things by the game engine even though those words mean pretty much the same thing.
Give it a try with the alteration scroll and if it can't be done you can just drop the scroll and you won't lose any LTBs.
Give it a try with the alteration scroll and if it can't be done you can just drop the scroll and you won't lose any LTBs.
MOOK1
Re: Tyrium Balaclava
09/01/2011 03:05 AM CDT
<<Can a noun be changed to a synonym if the word is already something in DR.
It depends.
You'll have more luck changing the noun of items without an appraisal like containers, clothing, or fluff items. Backpacks, packs, and knapsacks are all interchangeable for example. Cloaks and capes are usually interchangeable unless there's something specific about one or the other that would preclude it. A bracelet might be able to be changed into an anklet if it was worn in the general 'worn' slot. If it was worn on the wrist, it wouldn't be able to be changed.
Items with a detailed appraisal like weapons or armour will sometimes be allowed to change nouns, but there's a lot of restrictions on this because it has to match both in a conceptual way (e.g. is a scimitar really the same thing as a sabre?) as well as fit within the appraisal range of the item its changing to. E.g. if your weapon has a slice of 12 and the weapon you're changing to has a cap of 11 slice, its a no go.
You can always just submit the alteration, and if it gets turned down you can just drop the scroll and get a refund of the points spent.
-Evran
Waiting for Results..............................................................................................................
It depends.
You'll have more luck changing the noun of items without an appraisal like containers, clothing, or fluff items. Backpacks, packs, and knapsacks are all interchangeable for example. Cloaks and capes are usually interchangeable unless there's something specific about one or the other that would preclude it. A bracelet might be able to be changed into an anklet if it was worn in the general 'worn' slot. If it was worn on the wrist, it wouldn't be able to be changed.
Items with a detailed appraisal like weapons or armour will sometimes be allowed to change nouns, but there's a lot of restrictions on this because it has to match both in a conceptual way (e.g. is a scimitar really the same thing as a sabre?) as well as fit within the appraisal range of the item its changing to. E.g. if your weapon has a slice of 12 and the weapon you're changing to has a cap of 11 slice, its a no go.
You can always just submit the alteration, and if it gets turned down you can just drop the scroll and get a refund of the points spent.
-Evran
Waiting for Results..............................................................................................................
BEVERAGEK
Re: Tyrium Balaclava
09/01/2011 07:25 AM CDT
Sweet explanation of how alteration noun changes work--Thanks Evran!
~Leilond
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Leilond
http://soundsoftime.bravehost.com
~Leilond
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Leilond
http://soundsoftime.bravehost.com
LEEJ82
Re: Tyrium Balaclava
09/01/2011 10:28 AM CDT
<<Items with a detailed appraisal like weapons or armour will sometimes be allowed to change nouns, but there's a lot of restrictions on this because it has to match both in a conceptual way (e.g. is a scimitar really the same thing as a sabre?) as well as fit within the appraisal range of the item its changing to. E.g. if your weapon has a slice of 12 and the weapon you're changing to has a cap of 11 slice, its a no go.
That seems to be addressed in 3.0 where, for instance, a scimitar is a cutlass is a parang. Just with a different name.
However, scimitars are basically the same weapon as sabres. Designed to cut through moderate armor while on horseback and be pulled out on the move thanks to the curved blade. It's just that Dragonrealms doesn't have its templates set up that way (DR sabres appear to be fencing sabres which aren't really sabres).
That seems to be addressed in 3.0 where, for instance, a scimitar is a cutlass is a parang. Just with a different name.
However, scimitars are basically the same weapon as sabres. Designed to cut through moderate armor while on horseback and be pulled out on the move thanks to the curved blade. It's just that Dragonrealms doesn't have its templates set up that way (DR sabres appear to be fencing sabres which aren't really sabres).
MOOK1
Re: Tyrium Balaclava
09/01/2011 10:37 AM CDT
<<That seems to be addressed in 3.0 where, for instance, a scimitar is a cutlass is a parang. Just with a different name.
No. That would cover the appraisal distinction only. Just because the mechancal template is the same doesn't make them the same weapon. The conceptual similarity must still exist. Whether they relax the rules as a result of the new 3.0 templates is still unknown, however.
<<However, scimitars are basically the same weapon as sabres.
I was making no comment whatsoever on whether a scimitar is the same as a sabre conceptually. In fact, the point was to list a potentially ambiguous example to show that its not as clear cut as one might think.
-Evran
Waiting for Results..............................................................................................................
No. That would cover the appraisal distinction only. Just because the mechancal template is the same doesn't make them the same weapon. The conceptual similarity must still exist. Whether they relax the rules as a result of the new 3.0 templates is still unknown, however.
<<However, scimitars are basically the same weapon as sabres.
I was making no comment whatsoever on whether a scimitar is the same as a sabre conceptually. In fact, the point was to list a potentially ambiguous example to show that its not as clear cut as one might think.
-Evran
Waiting for Results..............................................................................................................
