A question about LTB prices were brought up during the Estate Holder (EH) meeting in May 2019.
A positive change mentioned was updating the shop and Dragon's Hoard shop a bit more, however I still question most but not all of the LTB prices and the model.
(1) I don't think many of the prices meaningfully reflect the investment made into the Premium/EH system.
(2) I don't think most of the items add incentive to encouraging subscription and retaining current subs.
I don't claim to know if this is a problem for every person, but I'm not sure how frugal people are with their LTBs. Myself, I haven't spent a single one because it takes a bit of time to recover from that loss that I would have serious buyer's remorse if I felt that I'd wasted any.
I also don't know what a "better" solution would be, but a couple of ideas I've considered are:
1) Reduce the cost of items from 100 LTB increments to much lower and,
1a) change the items to match their usage to individuals holding an active EH status where they are disabled/worse when used by a non-EH--especially since some of these items seem to be unbonded and can be passed to non-LTB accounts
-- makes the now-average items in the LTB shop a bit more realistically-priced compared to the accessibility of similar items at MT and crafted
-- doesn't set someone back as much when expending 1 year's worth of LTB
-- promotes retention to keep the effects/value of items due to EH status requirement
2) Change them to plat-purchasable items or reduced LTB prices and,
2a) similar to the above, disable the effects of the items after each month unless the EH "recharges" them--I wouldn't suggest something physical like an infuser stone, but an action that expends some point accrual, and make the point accrual 1pt/yr of subscription, so that 6yr subs gain 6pts every month to recharge/re-enable their LTB items.
-- i.e., 1 pt/yr of subscription is granted per month to recharge acquired LTB items
-- the items can be more "useful" and the points, as generic concepts, could potentially be spent on other things like month-long access to EH-only master forges, herb gardens (alchemy), previous HE/GF shops outside of their normal period, etc
-- promotes retention and increases activity with the EH LTB system at least on a monthly basis (the longer you remain subbed, the more things you can do/use)
Breakdown of benefits per sub tier (easy-to-read)
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1sfNfOsi6LfPMwOwOQMQubV7GCHS2zHeglhcUdFpJiMo/edit#gid=0
2016 GM's doc regarding LTB shop mods (no recent activity, so assuming ignored/dropped)
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1CXjPw5xQgSeLIjnSmOZr9QGlzH2tlvY5frqlVG59t7M/edit#gid=0
DAEMETHEUS
DR-WINNA
Re: Request to Update LTB Price and/or System
05/28/2019 11:15 AM CDT
>>1) Reduce the cost of items from 100 LTB increments to much lower and,
>>1a) change the items to match their usage to individuals holding an active EH status where they are disabled/worse when used by a non-EH--especially since some of these items seem to be unbonded and can be passed to non-LTB accounts -- makes the now-average items in the LTB shop a bit more realistically-priced compared to the accessibility of similar items at MT and crafted
I'm leery of the idea of making the things that will end up staying in Squat Bungalow all require an active Premium subscription, since many people will opt to use their LTB points to buy something for a character that doesn't necessarily have a Premium sub. My feeling is that if a Premium player wants to do something like that, it's their LTB points and they should use it how they want.
The fix for that would be having two tiers of every single item that remains in Squat Bungalow and that seems extremely unwieldy and cause purchase confusion too.
There's no way to make an item "worse" without some intensive Dev work and my preference would absolutely be to make these QoL changes sooner than later, since that option would then be tied to my time along with a Dev GM's time.
>>2) Change them to plat-purchasable items or reduced LTB prices and,
The goal absolutely is to go over what things in the Squat Bungalow can simply be transferred to Dragon's Horde to be sold for plats. Dragon's Horde will end up having multiple corridors. Some will require X months of CONSECUTIVE subscription. Others will require X months of CUMULATIVE subscription.
>>2a) similar to the above, disable the effects of the items after each month unless the EH "recharges" them--I wouldn't suggest something physical like an infuser stone, but an action that expends some point accrual, and make the point accrual 1pt/yr of subscription, so that 6yr subs gain 6pts every month to recharge/re-enable their LTB items. -- i.e., 1 pt/yr of subscription is granted per month to recharge acquired LTB items
My initial reaction is that it wouldn't be popular for players to have to keep on "paying" to use an item they bought from Squat Bungalow. Most likely if we tried for this model, LTB points would be used to "recharge" the item. This system would also require extensive Dev-work and I don't know that it would be liked enough by other Premium players. I could be wrong though and perhaps this is what other Premium subs would like!
GM Winna
>>1a) change the items to match their usage to individuals holding an active EH status where they are disabled/worse when used by a non-EH--especially since some of these items seem to be unbonded and can be passed to non-LTB accounts -- makes the now-average items in the LTB shop a bit more realistically-priced compared to the accessibility of similar items at MT and crafted
I'm leery of the idea of making the things that will end up staying in Squat Bungalow all require an active Premium subscription, since many people will opt to use their LTB points to buy something for a character that doesn't necessarily have a Premium sub. My feeling is that if a Premium player wants to do something like that, it's their LTB points and they should use it how they want.
The fix for that would be having two tiers of every single item that remains in Squat Bungalow and that seems extremely unwieldy and cause purchase confusion too.
There's no way to make an item "worse" without some intensive Dev work and my preference would absolutely be to make these QoL changes sooner than later, since that option would then be tied to my time along with a Dev GM's time.
>>2) Change them to plat-purchasable items or reduced LTB prices and,
The goal absolutely is to go over what things in the Squat Bungalow can simply be transferred to Dragon's Horde to be sold for plats. Dragon's Horde will end up having multiple corridors. Some will require X months of CONSECUTIVE subscription. Others will require X months of CUMULATIVE subscription.
>>2a) similar to the above, disable the effects of the items after each month unless the EH "recharges" them--I wouldn't suggest something physical like an infuser stone, but an action that expends some point accrual, and make the point accrual 1pt/yr of subscription, so that 6yr subs gain 6pts every month to recharge/re-enable their LTB items. -- i.e., 1 pt/yr of subscription is granted per month to recharge acquired LTB items
My initial reaction is that it wouldn't be popular for players to have to keep on "paying" to use an item they bought from Squat Bungalow. Most likely if we tried for this model, LTB points would be used to "recharge" the item. This system would also require extensive Dev-work and I don't know that it would be liked enough by other Premium players. I could be wrong though and perhaps this is what other Premium subs would like!
GM Winna
PURHEART
Re: Request to Update LTB Price and/or System
05/29/2019 08:30 PM CDT
Winna,
Any thoughts on making the (crystal?) gweth aka the unbreakable gweth passable to another since its in a bag? I wouldnt argue about it going to another premie (acct) that might not have the points, IOW keeping it out of the hands of non premie accts. Although I wouldnt mind it going to non premies too.
Thanks
Any thoughts on making the (crystal?) gweth aka the unbreakable gweth passable to another since its in a bag? I wouldnt argue about it going to another premie (acct) that might not have the points, IOW keeping it out of the hands of non premie accts. Although I wouldnt mind it going to non premies too.
Thanks
DAEMETHEUS
Re: Request to Update LTB Price and/or System
06/03/2019 03:38 PM CDT
I thought the idea of a Premium Subscription was to gain and retain more subscribers. I'm not saying I have the answer here, but a response to "it wouldn't be popular for players to have to keep on "paying" to use an item they bought..." and followed by, "LTB points would be used to "recharge" the item," sounds contradictory.
As I see it:
1) LTBs are rewarded to users who spend a certain amount of time with a Premium subscription or greater;
2) LTBs are used to purchase items that cannot be otherwise acquired without premium subscriptions (generally);
3) Very..."powerful" (in some sense) items would require a lengthier subscription to be able to acquire the item;
4) Simu wants people to subscribe and maintain a subscription from a business perspective (I assume...);
5) LTB items currently (without knowing exactly what is going to appear in the shops as new or updated items) are generally dated (not all, but a lot)
So as you update items, you want to ensure that the longer subs have a chance at the greatest benefit, and that it encourages non-subs to do so as well. Allowing purchases to be made on behalf of non-subs, to me, doesn't sound like it encourages subs, but certainly could encourage a business model if the items are desirable enough that investing some accounts into Premium sub status for trade to non-subs is, while a slippery slope, possible. And since the items (currently) are sub/on par with crafted, festival, and MT items, I don't see this as a great loss in comparison. For instance, we discussed the rationale of the proposed F2P-friendly almanac being a 48mo investment compared to the $100 market value on them from the maze; people are generally spending more over a longer period for similar items if that is exemplary of the price.
It was also discussed the price for the Premium-only item being 18mo; which, if you can sell Premium-only items, you've already made restrictions that "limit" the choice of what someone can spend their LTBs on "for a character that doesn't necessarily have a Premium sub." And there are other items that only work for Premium users, such as sigils, gweths (I think), and a small handful of others. So, the argument against supporting a model that requires an active Premium subscription and being rewarded for it isn't a very strong one given those examples.
I support your efforts to improve everything, I'm just offering a personal critique that you can absolutely dismiss. I do believe there is mixed opinion on LTBs and LTB rewards, though, so I would suggest at least speaking to various purchasers and non-purchasers about their experiences to get a qualitative feel for things.
As I see it:
1) LTBs are rewarded to users who spend a certain amount of time with a Premium subscription or greater;
2) LTBs are used to purchase items that cannot be otherwise acquired without premium subscriptions (generally);
3) Very..."powerful" (in some sense) items would require a lengthier subscription to be able to acquire the item;
4) Simu wants people to subscribe and maintain a subscription from a business perspective (I assume...);
5) LTB items currently (without knowing exactly what is going to appear in the shops as new or updated items) are generally dated (not all, but a lot)
So as you update items, you want to ensure that the longer subs have a chance at the greatest benefit, and that it encourages non-subs to do so as well. Allowing purchases to be made on behalf of non-subs, to me, doesn't sound like it encourages subs, but certainly could encourage a business model if the items are desirable enough that investing some accounts into Premium sub status for trade to non-subs is, while a slippery slope, possible. And since the items (currently) are sub/on par with crafted, festival, and MT items, I don't see this as a great loss in comparison. For instance, we discussed the rationale of the proposed F2P-friendly almanac being a 48mo investment compared to the $100 market value on them from the maze; people are generally spending more over a longer period for similar items if that is exemplary of the price.
It was also discussed the price for the Premium-only item being 18mo; which, if you can sell Premium-only items, you've already made restrictions that "limit" the choice of what someone can spend their LTBs on "for a character that doesn't necessarily have a Premium sub." And there are other items that only work for Premium users, such as sigils, gweths (I think), and a small handful of others. So, the argument against supporting a model that requires an active Premium subscription and being rewarded for it isn't a very strong one given those examples.
I support your efforts to improve everything, I'm just offering a personal critique that you can absolutely dismiss. I do believe there is mixed opinion on LTBs and LTB rewards, though, so I would suggest at least speaking to various purchasers and non-purchasers about their experiences to get a qualitative feel for things.
DR-WINNA
Re: Request to Update LTB Price and/or System
06/05/2019 02:29 AM CDT
>>I thought the idea of a Premium Subscription was to gain and retain more subscribers. I'm not saying I have the answer here, but a response to "it wouldn't be popular for players to have to keep on "paying" to use an item they bought..." and followed by, "LTB points would be used to "recharge" the item," sounds contradictory.
My statement was the following:
"My initial reaction is that it wouldn't be popular for players to have to keep on "paying" to use an item they bought from Squat Bungalow. Most likely if we tried for this model, LTB points would be used to "recharge" the item. This system would also require extensive Dev-work and I don't know that it would be liked enough by other Premium players. I could be wrong though and perhaps this is what other Premium subs would like!"
The first sentence was expressing my initial reaction about it (how I didn't feel that having to pay upkeep to use an item would be popular). The second sentence talks about how IF such a system were to be put into place, HOW it could possibly implemented. I stated that "LTB points would be used to 'recharge' the item" because in your original post you talked about a separate point accrual system with "point accrual 1pt/yr of subscription, so that 6yr subs gain 6pts every month to recharge/re-enable their LTB items".
I feel like having multiple point accrual systems would start making Premium quite unwieldy and it would be easier to use an already existing point accrual system (LTBs), if it was decided to go the route of consumable use items in the Squat Bungalow. I'm also not sure how a second accrual system could be implemented from a coding/Dev GM standpoint.
My goal is to make QoL changes that are doable within a reasonable time frame. I worry about long-term projects that can end up lost in the to-do pile, especially if they require another GM's time and support, since I can only control my own time management.
Perhaps you're right and people would prefer to have to purchase limited-use items. It's something that I'd love for others to weigh in on.
I think in general, many items in the Squat Bungalow are outdated. From a cursory look, the exceptions are the scroll stacker, type ahead line, spell forgetting contrivance, stat resetter, embiggener, hitman-sized backpacks, weapon/armor bonder, unbonding potion, weapon blesser, exo weapons, special movement messaging footwear, potency crystal, infuser stone, and alteration scroll. I'm sure I'm missing some items, but the listed things would be on my keep list.
It's unfortunate that there isn't much Squat Bungalow sales data to go off of, since there isn't a good way to check what items sell the most and what time stamp the sale was. I'm also limited to only talking with people who are willing to post on the message boards (such as yourself!) and those that come to Premium meetings. I very much appreciate you being willing to read the message boards and post your concerns and thoughts.
GM Winna
My statement was the following:
"My initial reaction is that it wouldn't be popular for players to have to keep on "paying" to use an item they bought from Squat Bungalow. Most likely if we tried for this model, LTB points would be used to "recharge" the item. This system would also require extensive Dev-work and I don't know that it would be liked enough by other Premium players. I could be wrong though and perhaps this is what other Premium subs would like!"
The first sentence was expressing my initial reaction about it (how I didn't feel that having to pay upkeep to use an item would be popular). The second sentence talks about how IF such a system were to be put into place, HOW it could possibly implemented. I stated that "LTB points would be used to 'recharge' the item" because in your original post you talked about a separate point accrual system with "point accrual 1pt/yr of subscription, so that 6yr subs gain 6pts every month to recharge/re-enable their LTB items".
I feel like having multiple point accrual systems would start making Premium quite unwieldy and it would be easier to use an already existing point accrual system (LTBs), if it was decided to go the route of consumable use items in the Squat Bungalow. I'm also not sure how a second accrual system could be implemented from a coding/Dev GM standpoint.
My goal is to make QoL changes that are doable within a reasonable time frame. I worry about long-term projects that can end up lost in the to-do pile, especially if they require another GM's time and support, since I can only control my own time management.
Perhaps you're right and people would prefer to have to purchase limited-use items. It's something that I'd love for others to weigh in on.
I think in general, many items in the Squat Bungalow are outdated. From a cursory look, the exceptions are the scroll stacker, type ahead line, spell forgetting contrivance, stat resetter, embiggener, hitman-sized backpacks, weapon/armor bonder, unbonding potion, weapon blesser, exo weapons, special movement messaging footwear, potency crystal, infuser stone, and alteration scroll. I'm sure I'm missing some items, but the listed things would be on my keep list.
It's unfortunate that there isn't much Squat Bungalow sales data to go off of, since there isn't a good way to check what items sell the most and what time stamp the sale was. I'm also limited to only talking with people who are willing to post on the message boards (such as yourself!) and those that come to Premium meetings. I very much appreciate you being willing to read the message boards and post your concerns and thoughts.
GM Winna
DR-WINNA
Re: Request to Update LTB Price and/or System
06/05/2019 02:39 AM CDT
>>Any thoughts on making the (crystal?) gweth aka the unbreakable gweth passable to another since its in a bag? I wouldnt argue about it going to another premie (acct) that might not have the points, IOW keeping it out of the hands of non premie accts. Although I wouldnt mind it going to non premies too.
I will ask around about this!
GM Winna
I will ask around about this!
GM Winna
