With the latest update to the auction system I suggest DR eliminate the ability to steal from ALL player characters. If people have to carry 400 thousand platinum to an auction there's no way they can secure it while getting to/from the event site. I know this is not real life but I've never had my wallet stolen or pocket picked in real life. Our characters have no way to secure our money in game and I think that's a really bad concept. I know there are a lot of people that will say things like "You just don't want to be involved in theft mechanics". That's not true. I play a thief in game and aside from attempting to steal from a friend with permission to see how well it would work (failed miserably by the way), I only steal from NPCs and shops. 99% of people in the world, then and now, do a lot to secure their valuables to prevent theft. Let's get this added to the game so it's closer to what real life would have been at the time this game is based off of.
SAPPHIRE8
SHAWN255
Re: Eliminate inter-player stealing
06/21/2021 06:49 PM CDT
At this point I feel like stealing already has almost no value against players, except for the very few events like guildfest. And If you don't loiter at the entrance most times you are fine. So I am not sure I would agree with getting rid of pvp stealing. There have been some fantastic RP interactions that come from stealing outside festivals.
Another problem is that the few anti-theft mechanics that already exist, have all become grossly outdated.
Like moneybelts. They are incredibly old with limits that were set (and really haven't been updated since) for the year 2000 when 30 plats was a big thing. But if these were updated to hold 5000 plats, or auction item versions that hold 10s of thousands of plats. Might help balance the risk.
Another problem is that the few anti-theft mechanics that already exist, have all become grossly outdated.
Like moneybelts. They are incredibly old with limits that were set (and really haven't been updated since) for the year 2000 when 30 plats was a big thing. But if these were updated to hold 5000 plats, or auction item versions that hold 10s of thousands of plats. Might help balance the risk.
DR-CORDULIA
Re: Eliminate inter-player stealing
06/23/2021 03:37 AM CDT
This thread was moved here from Discussions with DragonRealms Staff and Players \ Suggestions for DragonRealms (Overall).
GM Cordulia
GM Cordulia
TRAIGA
Re: Eliminate inter-player stealing
06/24/2021 02:32 AM CDT
Instead of eliminating player stealing, what I hear your concern as is wanting a safer and easier way to transport your coins to events.
For large events like Guildfest, Hollow's Eve, etc where people will be spending in-game currency (not SimuCoin or MT currency), then I'd propose instead that those events have an onsite bank or some service to allow characters to withdraw/transfer funds.
Having the onsite bank provides you the safety you're seeking while allowing a long-time game mechanic (player stealing) to remain in-tact.
Disclaimer, I play a thief and enjoy filling my pockets with player's coins :)
For large events like Guildfest, Hollow's Eve, etc where people will be spending in-game currency (not SimuCoin or MT currency), then I'd propose instead that those events have an onsite bank or some service to allow characters to withdraw/transfer funds.
Having the onsite bank provides you the safety you're seeking while allowing a long-time game mechanic (player stealing) to remain in-tact.
Disclaimer, I play a thief and enjoy filling my pockets with player's coins :)
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Eliminate inter-player stealing
06/24/2021 09:25 AM CDT
We all know it's just a race against time until PvP stealing follows normal PvP rules, where someone closed will be protected against player stealing, right?
I see no reason to eliminate PvP stealing as a whole, but similar to a lot of legacy systems in DR, eventually someone's going to reconsider in a "not the mid 90s" light, and adjust accordingly, which will most likely mean it's opt-in, like PvP in general, with some rules like "similar to how you can't go around insulting people while closed and not expect a GM to set you open, you can't keep harping about how much coin you have on you while closed and not expect a GM to set you open."
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
I see no reason to eliminate PvP stealing as a whole, but similar to a lot of legacy systems in DR, eventually someone's going to reconsider in a "not the mid 90s" light, and adjust accordingly, which will most likely mean it's opt-in, like PvP in general, with some rules like "similar to how you can't go around insulting people while closed and not expect a GM to set you open, you can't keep harping about how much coin you have on you while closed and not expect a GM to set you open."
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
FAMEBRIGHT
Re: Eliminate inter-player stealing
06/24/2021 04:24 PM CDT
I'm not a huge fan of player stealing, but bringing it into PVP rules sounds like a right nightmare -- if you can't pickpocket anonymously (eg the fate of Snipe), then probably Accuse is brokenly overpowered (eg necromancers) in favor of the victim, and this all sounds like a deeply unpleasant can of worms to open.
"Warrior Mages don't bother covering up their disasters.
They're proud of them." -Raesh, on history
"Warrior Mages don't bother covering up their disasters.
They're proud of them." -Raesh, on history
DIMINISHEDANGEL
Re: Eliminate inter-player stealing
06/25/2021 06:40 AM CDT
>this all sounds like a deeply unpleasant can of worms to open.
Not really. Only allowing stealing from people who are PvP Open, broadcast the name without pulling someone from hiding, and disable the ability to accuse someone of theft. Make them handle it themselves. People who want the possible "roleplay interactions" of pvp theft can have it, and people who don't can opt out.
A handful of the usual suspects will whine and moan just like they do whenever another room is made no-steal, and the general populace will move on and not care within 24 hours.
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Eliminate inter-player stealing
06/25/2021 08:39 AM CDT
>>I'm not a huge fan of player stealing, but bringing it into PVP rules sounds like a right nightmare
It's really not, though.
Closed = Can't steal from players, can't be stolen from.
Guarded = Can't steal from players, can be stolen from.
Open = Can steal from players, can be stolen from.
I believe players who steal from other players already get set PvP open for a specific amount of time, so this aligns nicely with that logic/reasoning.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
It's really not, though.
Closed = Can't steal from players, can't be stolen from.
Guarded = Can't steal from players, can be stolen from.
Open = Can steal from players, can be stolen from.
I believe players who steal from other players already get set PvP open for a specific amount of time, so this aligns nicely with that logic/reasoning.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
PURHEART
Re: Eliminate inter-player stealing
06/25/2021 01:25 PM CDT
If my character "Jane" approachs "joebobsnith" in an attempt to steal Jane gets a message long the lines of "if you do this you will be locked pvp open for 4(?) hours". I think its 4 hours, not sure if that includes logonff time or only login time.
But yeah, they get a warning beforehand.
I like the open/guarded/closed options, I agree with that a few folks will whine and moan about it as usual but the rest of the player base will move on. Granted HE has had a bank onsite, which is nice. And yes GF is only every 2 rl years, I dont think we've had any other sort of fest in the past few years that we need coin at. And from what I understand no MTs will have coin needed events anymore.
Its still a nice alternative to having to run coins around, and yes, I do have a couple higher level thieves but I've never like PC stealing so thats my 2 coppers.
But yeah, they get a warning beforehand.
I like the open/guarded/closed options, I agree with that a few folks will whine and moan about it as usual but the rest of the player base will move on. Granted HE has had a bank onsite, which is nice. And yes GF is only every 2 rl years, I dont think we've had any other sort of fest in the past few years that we need coin at. And from what I understand no MTs will have coin needed events anymore.
Its still a nice alternative to having to run coins around, and yes, I do have a couple higher level thieves but I've never like PC stealing so thats my 2 coppers.
SCHNEED
Re: Eliminate inter-player stealing
06/29/2021 12:25 PM CDT
It's not just fests where people have a lot of coin on them. There are auctions at random times outside of fests that will now require people to have a lot of coin on them.
As a trader who doesn't have connections with the super-crafters (and isn't one myself), I have to rely on running the trade routes to make any kind of money. As a result I ended up buying a personalized caravan (spent almost all my money on it) to be able to go into as a way of protecting what money I have. I still have to run to the bank to offload most of it as there are times I can't be inside the caravan and have lost money to theft on those occasions.
Aligning stealing with the PvP state sounds like a great idea. If the GMs decide to do this hopefully it's not too difficult to adjust the theft system.
As a trader who doesn't have connections with the super-crafters (and isn't one myself), I have to rely on running the trade routes to make any kind of money. As a result I ended up buying a personalized caravan (spent almost all my money on it) to be able to go into as a way of protecting what money I have. I still have to run to the bank to offload most of it as there are times I can't be inside the caravan and have lost money to theft on those occasions.
Aligning stealing with the PvP state sounds like a great idea. If the GMs decide to do this hopefully it's not too difficult to adjust the theft system.
RCHIGHT
Re: Eliminate inter-player stealing
06/30/2021 05:18 PM CDT
>>Aligning stealing with the PvP state sounds like a great idea. If the GMs decide to do this hopefully it's not too difficult to adjust the theft system.
Why, exactly? I've not read one viable reason that stealing from other players is not a viable option and shouldn't stay in the game. Now, stealing from noobs that are just going to an event or trying to repair items has been addressed mostly, but a character with 400K plat going to an auction should be fair game, myself included.
Rhadyn da Dwarb - Blood for fire!
Barbarian Guild Suggestions
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1h4L5hAxR1-VLDegDNZBIhGdo5bMgnCtm84Icm2E0utU/edit#gid=0
Why, exactly? I've not read one viable reason that stealing from other players is not a viable option and shouldn't stay in the game. Now, stealing from noobs that are just going to an event or trying to repair items has been addressed mostly, but a character with 400K plat going to an auction should be fair game, myself included.
Rhadyn da Dwarb - Blood for fire!
Barbarian Guild Suggestions
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1h4L5hAxR1-VLDegDNZBIhGdo5bMgnCtm84Icm2E0utU/edit#gid=0
DIMINISHEDANGEL
Re: Eliminate inter-player stealing
06/30/2021 10:21 PM CDT
>>>Why, exactly? I've not read one viable reason that stealing from other players is not a viable option and shouldn't stay in the game. Now, stealing from noobs that are just going to an event or trying to repair items has been addressed mostly, but a character with 400K plat going to an auction should be fair game, myself included.
Counterpoint: I've not read a single valid reason for keeping it that doesn't also apply to stuff that was either removed or was never allowed.
"People enjoy it, so it's a valid type of fun!" By that logic unconsented pvp is a valid kind of fun, and that's never been allowed. I don't understand the logic that states unconsented ganking and permanent item theft are fine to remove or heavily curtail but coin theft is somehow sacrosanct and must remain at all costs.
From a systems and GM-headache perspective they should just remove it once and for all. It adds nothing of objective value to the game as a whole and about once a year it creates a big fuss and headache when someone takes it too far and yet another room gets made no-steal.
Counterpoint: I've not read a single valid reason for keeping it that doesn't also apply to stuff that was either removed or was never allowed.
"People enjoy it, so it's a valid type of fun!" By that logic unconsented pvp is a valid kind of fun, and that's never been allowed. I don't understand the logic that states unconsented ganking and permanent item theft are fine to remove or heavily curtail but coin theft is somehow sacrosanct and must remain at all costs.
From a systems and GM-headache perspective they should just remove it once and for all. It adds nothing of objective value to the game as a whole and about once a year it creates a big fuss and headache when someone takes it too far and yet another room gets made no-steal.
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Eliminate inter-player stealing
07/01/2021 12:18 AM CDT
>>Why, exactly? I've not read one viable reason that stealing from other players is not a viable option and shouldn't stay in the game.
PvP stealing is absolutely viable. It should definitely stick around and be part of the game.
Similar to more direct/explicit combat-based PvP, I expect that it will eventually end up following the same closed/guarded/open rules, in order to let all players play the game in a way that personally works best for their enjoyment.
My understanding is that there are plenty of players who range from being comfortable with to enthusiastically embracing PvP, so this wouldn't cause any notable disruption to players with an interest in PvP stealing. They'll even have a stronger expectation to engage in some PvP, since their pool of targets would be more focused on those players.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
PvP stealing is absolutely viable. It should definitely stick around and be part of the game.
Similar to more direct/explicit combat-based PvP, I expect that it will eventually end up following the same closed/guarded/open rules, in order to let all players play the game in a way that personally works best for their enjoyment.
My understanding is that there are plenty of players who range from being comfortable with to enthusiastically embracing PvP, so this wouldn't cause any notable disruption to players with an interest in PvP stealing. They'll even have a stronger expectation to engage in some PvP, since their pool of targets would be more focused on those players.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
MAGHRIT
Re: Eliminate inter-player stealing
07/01/2021 10:22 PM CDT
Make it circle based? IF someone is say 20/25 circles below you, than you can't steal from them since they can't exactly attack you and win. But that would cause all sorts of issues say giving a circle 5 character 1.5 million dokoras...so no idea how that would work out. :D but why not have it circle based so someone has the chance to actually beat the thief in a 1 vs 1 type of situation? I don't know what else to do on the whole thing. The only idea I can come up with that would work all the way around.
Jim
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Eliminate inter-player stealing
07/02/2021 09:21 AM CDT
I think circle checks are a bit silly to begin with outside of the scope of how Guild X views someone's advancement. Nothing stopping a commoner having 1750 thievery outside of it being a weird thing to invest so much time in.
If people don't want to PvP, just let them not have to participate in PvP. They're not getting anything out of it because they don't want to do it and the people who want to PvP are probably getting very little out of it because what's the fun in trying to interact with someone completely disinclined from interacting with you.
Could people abuse it, like they abuse trying to start verbal fights with folks while closed? Sure, and that's handled appropriately per policy. So if you have someone running around going "Nyah nyah I have all the coins you can't rob me," have a GM flag them as guarded or open and let anyone interested in stealing go to town.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
If people don't want to PvP, just let them not have to participate in PvP. They're not getting anything out of it because they don't want to do it and the people who want to PvP are probably getting very little out of it because what's the fun in trying to interact with someone completely disinclined from interacting with you.
Could people abuse it, like they abuse trying to start verbal fights with folks while closed? Sure, and that's handled appropriately per policy. So if you have someone running around going "Nyah nyah I have all the coins you can't rob me," have a GM flag them as guarded or open and let anyone interested in stealing go to town.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
