I think Sarkranis said it all, and I'm beginning to wonder if SHIFT is just trying to argue for the sake of arguing. Bottom line -- most, if not all, ATK Empaths want something to be done. More importantly, it is against game policy!

I really don't understand the purpose of arguing in favor of people breaking rules that cause detrimental effects on other people... it just makes no sense. You say we're asking people to do things differently, but if that difference is just following the rules then I think they should be asked to do things differently.

You mentioned how it sounded to you SHIFT, this is how it sounds to me:

Empath: I really wish I could get a heal in edgewise and get rid of all this bot scroll, so we could focus on what we're here for.

Non-Empath: But I WANNA park my AFK character here, even it it breaks the rules.

Empath: Well, maybe you could park your AFK character somewhere else?

Non-Empath: No, YOU!

Empath: sigh

AFK-Empath-Bot: *touches Empath, attempts to take wounds that aren't there... nobody sees it for all the scroll*

Maybe we should actually start listening to the Empaths with regards to what can/should be done to improve the Empath guildhall... just sayin'

> Maybe we should actually start listening to the Empaths with regards to what can/should be done to improve the Empath guildhall... just sayin'

Fine. Whatever. My empath doesn't get an opinion because you want your empath to decide who can and can't be in what room of a guild hall. More power to you. I give up, but I reserve the right to an "I told you so" when this doesn't turn out how you want it to turn out. I'll gladly take one from you too if I turn out to be wrong on this.

>Fine. Whatever. My empath doesn't get an opinion because you want your empath to decide who can and can't be in what room of a guild hall. More power to you. I give up, but I reserve the right to an "I told you so" when this doesn't turn out how you want it to turn out. I'll gladly take one from you too if I turn out to be wrong on this.

No, I don't want to decide anything. I pointed out a problem, and pointed out that it doesn't follow policy but little is being done about it. Simutronics and the DR GMs have decided who can and can't be in what room of a guild hall, and they will continue to do so. For the third time -- all I've done is point out a side to this issue that was left out in this thread, and that's the fact that there are deleterious effects to the average ATK player in certain areas. I'm not certain, and you have yet to offer a feasible explanation, as to why you feel the need to tell me, the rule-following player, that I should adapt to fit the playstyle of those that cannot, or do not, follow the rules. Again, that is the effectual outcome, so I *have to,* but I'm not sure that I should have to.

I do feel pretty certain that people who are not following the game policy set forth by the development team should have to alter their behavior or face consequences, however.

My comment about listening to the Empaths was half tongue-in-cheek, but let's be honest... if this were happening at the Ranger's g...oh wait.

>Perceive health is your friend and doesn't require combat. You can also learn empathy from classes now if you can't perceive health yet.

>Healing other players is quite possibly the least sustainable way of advancing as an empath at this point. That's like a barbarian saying they'll only circle by >learning weapons in a class because that's their rp. You can do it but it will be tedious and take forever.

Perceive Health is all but useless for moving Empathy until you have enough ranks of Attunement (and Empathy as well, I think), so that does nothing for new/low circle Empaths.

Empathy classes are great... when you can actually find them, but it's not a reliable method for advancement. Even in the Empath guildhall, there's hardly ever an Empathy class going on. (But we always have Slings!)

Having basically left the Empath guildhall, I've been advancing quite effectively by healing other players (outside of combat, even!)... and I've been having more fun and more interaction with other PCs, to boot. My personal experience differs greatly from your claims.

Comparing what was originally a support/social class to a combat based class is like comparing apples to orangutans, even if that support/social class now has a viable combat role when chosen - because even going that route requires you to reach a certain point before you can use it to move Empathy. Barbarians do not have this restriction.

This isn't a "How to Empath" thread, anyway. I wasn't seeking advice on how to play my character or to advance in the guild. I was pointing out that it can be a frustrating start for new players, because it's difficult to 'do our thing' in the place currently designated for it. That's just a simple truth, and telling people to go do it a different way so people can keep breaking the rules is just silly. Furthermore, it's antithetical to what the GM's/Devs have said they want to do, which is make the game more inviting to new players.

>Comparing what was originally a support/social class to a combat based class is like comparing apples to orangutans, even if that support/social class now has a viable combat role when chosen - because even going that route requires you to reach a certain point before you can use it to move Empathy. Barbarians do not have this restriction.

But that 'certain point' is laughably low. You can hit it in two afternoons of healing or listening. And Barbarians don't have a restriction on learning Expertise, but, for example, an out of the box Barbarian isn't going to have an easy time training two handed weapons.

Again, I get you dislike that the game has shifted in such a way to make being a pure, 'sit on your butt and heal people who come find you as a valid form of progressing' class, but the options Empaths have been given are solid and effective. The 'simple truth' of the game and guild is that it isn't remotely silly, because basing your entire guild outlook on a game and class designed in the early 90's isn't a good reason to get upset about how things have evolved.

And that these options are available to Empaths has zero bearing on the new player experience.