Yesterday, I was thinking about our spells, most of which I love, and got to thinking how nice it would be to have a spell that's practical outside combat yet still has combat implications. That led me to thinking about how great it would be to have a spell to boost forging skill and maybe charisma. Maybe it could be called Warrior's Inspiration or something.

Posted here instead of the 2.0 forum since Raesh mentioned he was considering some paladin spells, and in case he hates paladins enough to code it.

We could definitely use a charisma booster but I think if the spell was just a charisma boost it be a little tame. Maybe as a META spell that improves Marshals Orders, or is that a bit to direct of an effect for a meta slot?

Also with spell suggestions for 3.0 do you prefer them here or in the 2.0 folders (I have been posting mine in the 2.0 folders!).

Raesh

In line with stories of Paladins braving terrible odds, facing evil in their lair and the such, maybe our charisma booster can also have an anti fear/spirit attack aspect? Like "Voice of the Pure" or something along those lines. Feels a natural fit to have charisma and the ability to face something down right terrifying going hand in hand. As an alterntative, maybe a charisma boost that also allows a portion of charisma to act as a bonus to Willpower Defense?

Seems logical that many boss monsters in 3.0 would use things like fears.

The courage spell does seem a perfect place to add anti fear, its kind of built into the name of the spell.

>>The courage spell does seem a perfect place to add anti fear, its kind of built into the name of the spell.

Maybe as a meta effect that costs a spell slot?

Honestly it just kind of bothers me to think of a paladin running away from something cause its scary. I think they would be one of the better abled guilds to look at something terrifying and not break a sweat.

>>Other guilds specialize in scaring people just as much as you could argue Paladins specialize in not getting scared. I do think some form of fear resistance (spell vs. fortitude especially) makes sense for Paladins, though as a barbarian player I'm a little irked that suddenly every single guild is arguing they deserve blanket anti-fear effects

I can understand you are irritated, but frankly its probably something that should have existed for a long while. I mean..our guild gets penalized if we flee, if we attack from the safety of shadows, we have spelled named courage, marshalls order, are expected to lead from the front lines and in general be heroic, and in 3.0 we imagined to be one of the premier tanks with the Endurance Skill, so having no sort of fear resist just seems like an oversight as I imagine with 3.0 Boss creature design will include fear powers.

<I'd be game for Paladin's getting some kind of anti-fear ability, or it being incorporated into one of their spells. It is overdue. But we draw the line there, and they should be the only ones. :D

Liches fear no mere mortals.

>>I'd be game for Paladin's getting some kind of anti-fear ability, or it being incorporated into one of their spells. It is overdue. But we draw the line there, and they should be the only ones. :D

Sounds more than logical. I wonder what the GM's think.

<<In the conceptual realm I don't mind Paladin anti-fear, but right now anti-fear abilities come down to being purely anti-Barbarian abilities and that rubs me the wrong way.>>

It seems like there are two concerns in play: (1) a fear barrier mitigates every offensive ability calling on that offensive check, regardless of the defense actually involved in the contest (and that's all barbs have for ranged debilitation), and (2) there aren't enough fear attacks in the game to make a fear barrier worthwhile for anyone outside barb-fighting. Both are good points in my mind.

I am particularly whiny about this new "blocks-offensive-side-stat" barrier idea since early on in testing, I raised the point that it wasn't really fair that psy shield blocked all barb roars. Adjustments were made (or maybe they were always planned) to give barbs versatility, which they deserve, via strike (possibly more, we just know that one isn't contesting will) going against fortitude instead of will. An all-fear barrier kind of punches that balance in the face; maybe the adjustment is just as easy--give barbs some debilitation abilities running off a different offensive stat contest.

Without going too much further off course, I think it's bad precedent to set down defensive barriers that are too broad. Some of those "barriers" I see in clerics and bards remind me a lot of capped shear in 2.0, and as someone that certainly understands the unfair advantages there, I wouldn't like to see it flipped on me in a new system.

On top of all that, if anyone had anti-fear, it should be paladins.

>>It seems like there are two concerns in play: (1) a fear barrier mitigates every offensive ability calling on that offensive check, regardless of the defense actually involved in the contest (and that's all barbs have for ranged debilitation), and (2) there aren't enough fear attacks in the game to make a fear barrier worthwhile for anyone outside barb-fighting. Both are good points in my mind.

Right on the nose here. I don't think "fear" attacks should be their own category in the sense that you can get blanket protection from them. Rather, you should have spell vs. will, spell vs. fortitude, spell. vs spirit, spell vs. agility, or whatever. Paladins are great candidates for fortitude and spirit "saving rolls," I think.

>>- Barbarians are supposed to be getting Power Debilitation melee attacks at some point, which will be their other suite of debilitation maneuvers. For the times when a Fear based roar attack is ineffective, Power Debilitation attacks may prove to be more valuable.

Will be nice, but melee-only hampers their usefulness a lot. (I assume we are approaching this mostly from a PvP perspective.)

>> Roars are the only debilitation attacks which can be boosted beyond just raising the respective stats on the attacker side. They can be boosted with war paint, roar masks and whatever else. The boosting from these items are also vastly significant, evidence by a pre roar mask attack versus a capped Redeemer's Pride barrier yielded insubstantial plinking damage to the barrier, and post roar mask a fully capped Redeemer's Pride was completely obliterated. I could parallel examples of what a 100 mana Mental Blast with Traim's stats does, but I don't think that's necessary. This may just be a balancing issue on Kodius's end.

As per Kodius, war paint is just a flat charisma bonus now and Cyclone only bonuses voice recovery (which is currently bugged), so the only way to directly boost "fear power" is with roar helms. Conversely, roar cloaks exist, so I do not find roar helms/masks to be out of order. They are the only debilitation abilities that can specifically be boosted with items, and they are the only debilitation effects that can specifically be nerfed with items.

>>- Fear based attacks as they pertain to Barbarians(Roars) are a separate beasts altogether in contrast to spells, which is why there aren't any Mind, Magic, Charm or Spirit offensive side barriers. These fear based attacks are instantaneous(no long prepare time that spells have) and have hardly any cost(negligible Inner Fire cost which means they can be used ad nauseam with no concern to other abilities).

The inner fire cost is significant if you plan on stacking several together (which you most certainly do in most cases). As previously mentioned, one of the major balancing aspects of roars (voice pool) is currently bugged and nonfunctional. Assuming it works the same as 2.0, lower voice pool = weaker roar ("potency" to use 3.0 term). They're instantaneous (now with RT), but they also have an entirely unique and secondary balance mechanic to go along with the perk of being quick-fire.

>>- Fear based protection items(Roar Cloaks) already exist in item form so a spell version is by far not the first precedent of this kind barrier existing.

Seems a little odd to me to justify fear protection spells by using a barbarian-made non-magical item as precedent.

>>- Fear based attacks I imagine will be a PvE element eventually, so the concept of fear resistance has value in and of itself.

Agreed with the sentiment, though I think the order of this logic is backwards. Design the PvE elements of fear-based attacks and give other guilds access to fear abilities, then design anti-fear abilities. Don't release anti-fear abilities then eventually get around to make them more than just anti-barb abilities.

>>Right on the nose here. I don't think "fear" attacks should be their own category in the sense that you can get blanket protection from them. Rather, you should have spell vs. will, spell vs. fortitude, spell. vs spirit, spell vs. agility, or whatever. Paladins are great candidates for fortitude and spirit "saving rolls," I think.

This seems very logical to me. Thumbs up this idea

>> - Roars are the only debilitation attacks which can be boosted beyond just raising the respective stats on the attacker side. They can be boosted with war paint, roar masks and whatever else. The boosting from these items are also vastly significant, evidence by a pre roar mask attack versus a capped Redeemer's Pride barrier yielded insubstantial plinking damage to the barrier, and post roar mask a fully capped Redeemer's Pride was completely obliterated. I could parallel examples of what a 100 mana Mental Blast with Traim's stats does, but I don't think that's necessary. This may just be a balancing issue on Kodius's end.

A lot of points to make on this:

First off, you're mistaken in our tests - cyclone is what made the most amount of difference against you, not the mask or the paint.

Secondly, the problem with disablers is that how they're designed to work gives no window-of-immunity to prevent chaining their effects. This is not specific to barbs - MMs can alternate between dazzle/mb for 100% incapacitation, and I'm sure every other guild can do it too just by being more observant than Helen Keller in pvp and timing their abilities the right way.

Now, from my experiences, fear operates differently from magic. It either completely succeeds, or fails outright - you can't choose how powerful it is, it just is. Aside from potency barriers, I haven't observed any significant difference in duration to warrant other conclusions about this. Maybe it's broke, maybe I'm getting max duration on everyone. IDK. Vinjince seemed to get max duration on G when he broke through his resistance. Before that, he was failing outright.

The fact that I needed to activate our only Charisma boosting ability(Cyclone) to break through Leilond's Redeemer's Pride supports this, and even then paired with the mask and paint it didn't work every time.

> scream mask
Leilond holds a cambrinth orb in both hands and closes his eyes in concentration.
>
A feral scream rips from your lungs and shakes your crimson mask to trembling. You feel terrifying.
Roundtime: 2 seconds.

* Leilond throws a cambrinth orb at you. You evade.
The cambrinth orb lands nearby!

>
>
>
You close to melee range on Leilond.
>
Looking as if this were a bad idea, Samsaren feints a steel robe sword at Kyudo. Kyudo evades, stepping aside with ease.
> roar wail
The technique of the Banshee's Wail flows fluidly through your mind an instant before you unleash its power through a roar of fatal intent.
Leilond's confidence dampens your attack.
Leilond throws off your pitiful attempt to immobilize him.
Roundtime: 2 sec.

This isn't 2.0 where 1 lash makes the difference between blocking and apoc'ing 5 times over on you. Having total immunity to barbarian disablers/debuffs is not viable, and people bringing this up still have their heads in the old system where barbarian offense boosts didn't suck immensely in proportion to our skillset placement.

Roars just aren't world-ending abilities anymore - even significantly outranking Leilond offense-to-defense, I still spent a majority of our 'test' whiffing against him. In fact, I just got out of test with Ryoukai, and also outranking him offense-to-defense, he managed to whiff 80% of my attacks even with Dragon up. With him right in front of me at melee range standing there not using WD doing nothing like he had a target painted on his back. I was also using rage/embrace.

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