I'm finding a capped AA (50 mana) teaches way better than a capped SP for me (30 mana). One is a basic and the other is an advanced. Shouldnt it be the other way around in terms of learning, or is the mana difference that big of a difference?
REWYN
DR-RAESH
Re: Warding Learning?
12/24/2012 11:37 AM CST
AA is actually intro, otherwise that sounds about right. If you cast them at the same mana you should see SP teach better I'd expect (Though I'm not an expert on how exp works in new magic).
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
REWYN
Re: Warding Learning?
12/24/2012 12:16 PM CST
Hrmm I suppose then this is the question
Advanced spells max mana will always (until very high skill) have a lower mana cap then basic or intro spells.
Then I guess for training, if mana is not an issue (i.e running out of harness) it would seem your better off using intro/basic spells.
This could be very false based off the following
1) I dont know what im talking about. Likely
2) Each tier has a point where it tapers off and teaches less. Given this new model is meant to scale magic up to 1000+ ranks well, it could be that my magic skills are comparatively a joke, so I'm still in a tier where 'basic' spells are actually the best ways to learn.
3) Harness is more of an issue than I can tell. Being on 3.0 with HEALME can make testing a bit subjective, so I'll need to do some better testing.
What I did realize is that at least for my magic skills (mid 200's) that the only real way to work Utility was with TR going. Casting Anti Stun was not very efficient.
Advanced spells max mana will always (until very high skill) have a lower mana cap then basic or intro spells.
Then I guess for training, if mana is not an issue (i.e running out of harness) it would seem your better off using intro/basic spells.
This could be very false based off the following
1) I dont know what im talking about. Likely
2) Each tier has a point where it tapers off and teaches less. Given this new model is meant to scale magic up to 1000+ ranks well, it could be that my magic skills are comparatively a joke, so I'm still in a tier where 'basic' spells are actually the best ways to learn.
3) Harness is more of an issue than I can tell. Being on 3.0 with HEALME can make testing a bit subjective, so I'll need to do some better testing.
What I did realize is that at least for my magic skills (mid 200's) that the only real way to work Utility was with TR going. Casting Anti Stun was not very efficient.
DR-RAESH
Re: Warding Learning?
12/24/2012 12:34 PM CST
By default (Since we can tweak any spell off the default values) all non cyclic spells cap at 100 currently, intro through esoteric. Only the min values change.
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
DANFORDS2
Re: Warding Learning?
12/24/2012 12:39 PM CST
>Only the min values change.
I think he meant personal caps. For example, I can cap Basic spells around 70 and Advanced spells around 30. For mana purposes, why would I train with a Basic if I can train with an Advanced?
>Advanced spells max mana will always (until very high skill) have a lower mana cap then basic or intro spells.
I don't think training is based solely on mana. The spell difficulty matters as well.
Elemental Lord Opieus, Master Warrior Mage of Elanthia
"For a bunch of radical empiricists, the Philosophers' system relies on a whole lot of faith." ~Armifer
I think he meant personal caps. For example, I can cap Basic spells around 70 and Advanced spells around 30. For mana purposes, why would I train with a Basic if I can train with an Advanced?
>Advanced spells max mana will always (until very high skill) have a lower mana cap then basic or intro spells.
I don't think training is based solely on mana. The spell difficulty matters as well.
Elemental Lord Opieus, Master Warrior Mage of Elanthia
"For a bunch of radical empiricists, the Philosophers' system relies on a whole lot of faith." ~Armifer
DR-ARMIFER
Re: Warding Learning?
12/24/2012 12:44 PM CST
Both mana and difficulty matter. All else being equal, a "personal cap" cast at 70 will teach more than a harder spell's personal cap at 30, because both casts are equally difficult but the easier one involves manipulating more mana.
Though, of course, you need to weigh that against mana efficiency to decide which has the best value over time.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
Though, of course, you need to weigh that against mana efficiency to decide which has the best value over time.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
REWYN
Re: Warding Learning?
12/24/2012 01:04 PM CST
Makes sense.
I guess my only issues so far then with paladin magic learning is utility, and I feel thats because the current spells we have to train it are spells I feel no one would ever cast or pick other than to train utility.
Hands of Justice: You will cast in the rare pvp scenario where someone is thieving (which seems all but dead in DR) or just to train utility.
Bond Weapon: Generally only useful for thrown lodging weapons or rarely when you over hunt. More cast on others given paladins auto glyph after circle 30, making the 'what if I die' aspect of this spell a bit moot. Also it costs 2 spell slots (resonance does something similar for the same slots, while buffing weapon damage)
Alamhif's Gift: Cant see this being used to train given the favor cost/ritual nature of it. Even with the favor cost, still cant really see this being used to train.
Anti Stun/Banner of Truce: Both being advanced spells, I found the learning/mana efficiency pretty terrible with mid 200's in skills. Took way too many casts to get it to a respectable level (maxing the spells each time).
The only real viable way I found to train Utility was through Trothfangs Rally, which moved it at a decent clip.
Thats not to say I cant train it, just in my personal opinion the options are a bit underwhelming.
I guess I would recommend primarily that our basic Utilities be a little bit more useful/less specialized.
Bond weapon either be reduced to 1 slot (meh) or gain some other effect to make it worth 2 slots (more ideal).
Hands of Justice: this spell is from a time long forgotten of thieves plaguing the pockets of innocents. This really is not the modern game. I would love to see this spell rethought a bit and be made less specialized and more generally useful.
I guess my only issues so far then with paladin magic learning is utility, and I feel thats because the current spells we have to train it are spells I feel no one would ever cast or pick other than to train utility.
Hands of Justice: You will cast in the rare pvp scenario where someone is thieving (which seems all but dead in DR) or just to train utility.
Bond Weapon: Generally only useful for thrown lodging weapons or rarely when you over hunt. More cast on others given paladins auto glyph after circle 30, making the 'what if I die' aspect of this spell a bit moot. Also it costs 2 spell slots (resonance does something similar for the same slots, while buffing weapon damage)
Alamhif's Gift: Cant see this being used to train given the favor cost/ritual nature of it. Even with the favor cost, still cant really see this being used to train.
Anti Stun/Banner of Truce: Both being advanced spells, I found the learning/mana efficiency pretty terrible with mid 200's in skills. Took way too many casts to get it to a respectable level (maxing the spells each time).
The only real viable way I found to train Utility was through Trothfangs Rally, which moved it at a decent clip.
Thats not to say I cant train it, just in my personal opinion the options are a bit underwhelming.
I guess I would recommend primarily that our basic Utilities be a little bit more useful/less specialized.
Bond weapon either be reduced to 1 slot (meh) or gain some other effect to make it worth 2 slots (more ideal).
Hands of Justice: this spell is from a time long forgotten of thieves plaguing the pockets of innocents. This really is not the modern game. I would love to see this spell rethought a bit and be made less specialized and more generally useful.
BEVERAGEK
Re: Warding Learning?
12/24/2012 01:12 PM CST
>>Bond Weapon: Generally only useful for thrown lodging weapons or rarely when you over hunt. More cast on others given paladins auto glyph after circle 30, making the 'what if I die' aspect of this spell a bit moot. Also it costs 2 spell slots (resonance does something similar for the same slots, while buffing weapon damage)
Bond Weapon = Bonds Weapon, Bonds Shield
Rutilor's Edge = Buffs Weapon Damage, Buffs Balance/Suitedness
Resonance = Bonds Weapon, Buffs Weapon Damage
~ Leilond
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h307/ss1shadow/Leilond_Progression.jpg
Bond Weapon = Bonds Weapon, Bonds Shield
Rutilor's Edge = Buffs Weapon Damage, Buffs Balance/Suitedness
Resonance = Bonds Weapon, Buffs Weapon Damage
~ Leilond
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h307/ss1shadow/Leilond_Progression.jpg
ANOUSHKA
Re: Warding Learning?
12/24/2012 01:28 PM CST
>I guess my only issues so far then with paladin magic learning is utility, and I feel thats because the current spells we have to train it are spells I feel no one would ever cast or pick other than to train utility.
I actually disagree with this quite a lot, having regularly used bond weapon and anti stun in Prime. I would expect to use them quite often in 3.0 in addition to Truffenyi's Rally being a very solid spell.
The GMs are also trying to scale magics to be worthwhile past 1000 ranks, which makes some spells not work well with low magic skills.
All that said, there isn't anything that forces you to learn utility if the spells in it are not things you care for.
I actually disagree with this quite a lot, having regularly used bond weapon and anti stun in Prime. I would expect to use them quite often in 3.0 in addition to Truffenyi's Rally being a very solid spell.
The GMs are also trying to scale magics to be worthwhile past 1000 ranks, which makes some spells not work well with low magic skills.
All that said, there isn't anything that forces you to learn utility if the spells in it are not things you care for.
OSUS
Re: Warding Learning?
12/24/2012 01:52 PM CST
>>Hands of Justice: this spell is from a time long forgotten of thieves plaguing the pockets of innocents. This really is not the modern game. I would love to see this spell rethought a bit and be made less specialized and more generally useful.
It's funny that you mention it... I'll see what I can do to make your spell much more useful.
-O
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Warding Learning?
12/24/2012 02:32 PM CST
HoJ should be the "you can't retreat" spell.
>power
You reach out your...
You sense the Hands of Justice spell surrounding you, which will last for ten roisaen or until it has been used six more times.
Roundtime: 3 sec.
>gesture mob
You gesture toward a mob and hear a voice from within you bellow, "You can not escape my wrath!" Mob jerks violently toward you!
Retreat mechanics against those mobs then function similar to what happens when a target tries to escape from those reaper summons from HE.
When in doubt, http://elanthipedia.org/
>power
You reach out your...
You sense the Hands of Justice spell surrounding you, which will last for ten roisaen or until it has been used six more times.
Roundtime: 3 sec.
>gesture mob
You gesture toward a mob and hear a voice from within you bellow, "You can not escape my wrath!" Mob jerks violently toward you!
Retreat mechanics against those mobs then function similar to what happens when a target tries to escape from those reaper summons from HE.
When in doubt, http://elanthipedia.org/
REWYN
Re: Warding Learning?
12/24/2012 02:40 PM CST
<<
Bond Weapon = Bonds Weapon, Bonds Shield
Rutilor's Edge = Buffs Weapon Damage, Buffs Balance/Suitedness
Resonance = Bonds Weapon, Buffs Weapon Damage
>>
Erm...we had the discussion, so its beating a dead horse. Everyone wears their shields. I have never seen anyone in hunting or CvC ever hold a shield, despite the better stats you get with it. Wearing a shield is that much more convenient that it simply never happens. I feel when the spell was made, it made sense. I feel however in the modern day, charging a spell slot for it to bond a shield is silly. Bonding Weapons should both apply to shields, more so since shields are in their own way, a type of weapon now (see: slam). Resonance should work on shields without any cost and Bond Weapon should not be penalized for it.
Anyhow, its probably not worth going around and around about, just wanted to vocalize what I think is generally a pretty crummy spell. Before anyone says, yes I realize I dont have to take it, but given our small pool of utility spells it just feels that your kind of forced into taking TR to train until you can efficiently train off Anti Stun (which I imagine becomes viable around 400's in magics).
Bond Weapon = Bonds Weapon, Bonds Shield
Rutilor's Edge = Buffs Weapon Damage, Buffs Balance/Suitedness
Resonance = Bonds Weapon, Buffs Weapon Damage
>>
Erm...we had the discussion, so its beating a dead horse. Everyone wears their shields. I have never seen anyone in hunting or CvC ever hold a shield, despite the better stats you get with it. Wearing a shield is that much more convenient that it simply never happens. I feel when the spell was made, it made sense. I feel however in the modern day, charging a spell slot for it to bond a shield is silly. Bonding Weapons should both apply to shields, more so since shields are in their own way, a type of weapon now (see: slam). Resonance should work on shields without any cost and Bond Weapon should not be penalized for it.
Anyhow, its probably not worth going around and around about, just wanted to vocalize what I think is generally a pretty crummy spell. Before anyone says, yes I realize I dont have to take it, but given our small pool of utility spells it just feels that your kind of forced into taking TR to train until you can efficiently train off Anti Stun (which I imagine becomes viable around 400's in magics).
REWYN
Re: Warding Learning?
12/24/2012 02:47 PM CST
>>I actually disagree with this quite a lot, having regularly used bond weapon and anti stun in Prime. I would expect to use them quite often in 3.0 in addition to Truffenyi's Rally being a very solid spell.
Keep in mind the difficulties and the such of spells are vastly different on test. You should jump on it and try training with those spells.
Also after 30th circle, bond weapon is really only useful for thrown weapons, given death auto glyphs and auto bonds you.
TR is a very great spell on 3.0, it just seems like the only good early utility spell. Anti Stun is an advanced and 'training' utility with it is slow and tedious cause you run into very low mana caps. At least that is what I experienced.
>>It's funny that you mention it... I'll see what I can do to make your spell much more useful.
The spell requires I know you stole basically and that you be visible for me to cast at you. Basically its useless unless someone is trolling you and stealing from you and then revealing themselves from stealth. I might realize a thief is on my pockets but if they are worth their salt, I wont get a point on them to cast this spell on them. At that point I've cast a hostile spell on you and invited you to retaliate against me in CvC. True I could cast this spell at you if you stole from someone else, but again, I'm choosing to 'debuff' your stealing while giving you CvC rights on me. I cant see why anyone would intelligently do that vs simply attacking you in the former or later case since you will be flagged after stealing. Its not a well thought out spell.
>>HoJ should be the "you can't retreat" spell.
Winner! I was thinking that or as a meta spell to Holy Warrior. If HoJ was made to be a smaller but general stealth penalty and anti retreat (i.e you cant run you cant hide) that would be pretty awesome.
Keep in mind the difficulties and the such of spells are vastly different on test. You should jump on it and try training with those spells.
Also after 30th circle, bond weapon is really only useful for thrown weapons, given death auto glyphs and auto bonds you.
TR is a very great spell on 3.0, it just seems like the only good early utility spell. Anti Stun is an advanced and 'training' utility with it is slow and tedious cause you run into very low mana caps. At least that is what I experienced.
>>It's funny that you mention it... I'll see what I can do to make your spell much more useful.
The spell requires I know you stole basically and that you be visible for me to cast at you. Basically its useless unless someone is trolling you and stealing from you and then revealing themselves from stealth. I might realize a thief is on my pockets but if they are worth their salt, I wont get a point on them to cast this spell on them. At that point I've cast a hostile spell on you and invited you to retaliate against me in CvC. True I could cast this spell at you if you stole from someone else, but again, I'm choosing to 'debuff' your stealing while giving you CvC rights on me. I cant see why anyone would intelligently do that vs simply attacking you in the former or later case since you will be flagged after stealing. Its not a well thought out spell.
>>HoJ should be the "you can't retreat" spell.
Winner! I was thinking that or as a meta spell to Holy Warrior. If HoJ was made to be a smaller but general stealth penalty and anti retreat (i.e you cant run you cant hide) that would be pretty awesome.
ASHAMAN1
Re: Warding Learning?
12/24/2012 02:55 PM CST
>>I have never seen anyone in hunting or CvC ever hold a shield
You might wanna get out more, on high end shields especially for paladins/clerics (DA/SOL), you wanna hold em, especially for PVP.
You might wanna get out more, on high end shields especially for paladins/clerics (DA/SOL), you wanna hold em, especially for PVP.
OSUS
Re: Warding Learning?
12/24/2012 03:04 PM CST
>>The spell requires I know you stole basically and that you be visible for me to cast at you.
I think HOJ still breaks hands of the people that pickpocket you unless thats being scrapped for 3.0? If so, thats unfortunate, and I can see why you'd like a change to the spell, but if not then why not just use it more often and crack a few limbs for people dippin in your coinpurse?
REWYN
Re: Warding Learning?
12/24/2012 03:11 PM CST
>>You might wanna get out more, on high end shields especially for paladins/clerics (DA/SOL), you wanna hold em, especially for PVP.
On the high end most paladins are using two handers in 2.0, ergo wearing their shields vs holding them. I have not seen any recent wyrven logs, but this seemed to be the pvp 'meta' for paladins circa a year ago. Regardless bonding your shield seems a bit silly given your auto bonded on death. I'm not sure if tingle causes you to drop your weapons still, so maybe there is that. It still seems like a spell who's role has over the course of time become more limited.
>>I think HOJ still breaks hands of the people that pickpocket you unless thats being scrapped for 3.0? If so, thats unfortunate, and I can see why you'd like a change to the spell, but if not then why not just use it more often and crack a few limbs for people dippin in your coinpurse?
I'm actually not sure. I thought I recalled the hand crushing was removed a long time ago, but I cant find any evidence in either direction about this.
From Elantheapedia:
>>The Hands of Justice enchantment the casting paladin to protect themselves and others against unwanted thievery. They will find that their ability to defend against depraved pickpocketing is increased, and they are even more able to spot pickpockets attempting to prey on those around them. Those who are in a group led by the paladin will find they are protected to some extent by Chadatru's power as well. Paladins using this spell may GESTURE at a suspected Thief, and if they have stolen from others recently, the Paladin will attempt to channel the power of Chadatru to bar their power to steal for a short time. Beware, Chadatru looks unkindly on those who have not the will to use his power successfully, and especially unkindly on those who try to use it on an innocent. Such an abuse will cause the spell to flee the paladin and Chadatru's blessing will be elusive for a short period. However, only attempting to harm the innocent will bring any long-lasting repercussions.
I would welcome logging on test server and testing this out if your game?
On the high end most paladins are using two handers in 2.0, ergo wearing their shields vs holding them. I have not seen any recent wyrven logs, but this seemed to be the pvp 'meta' for paladins circa a year ago. Regardless bonding your shield seems a bit silly given your auto bonded on death. I'm not sure if tingle causes you to drop your weapons still, so maybe there is that. It still seems like a spell who's role has over the course of time become more limited.
>>I think HOJ still breaks hands of the people that pickpocket you unless thats being scrapped for 3.0? If so, thats unfortunate, and I can see why you'd like a change to the spell, but if not then why not just use it more often and crack a few limbs for people dippin in your coinpurse?
I'm actually not sure. I thought I recalled the hand crushing was removed a long time ago, but I cant find any evidence in either direction about this.
From Elantheapedia:
>>The Hands of Justice enchantment the casting paladin to protect themselves and others against unwanted thievery. They will find that their ability to defend against depraved pickpocketing is increased, and they are even more able to spot pickpockets attempting to prey on those around them. Those who are in a group led by the paladin will find they are protected to some extent by Chadatru's power as well. Paladins using this spell may GESTURE at a suspected Thief, and if they have stolen from others recently, the Paladin will attempt to channel the power of Chadatru to bar their power to steal for a short time. Beware, Chadatru looks unkindly on those who have not the will to use his power successfully, and especially unkindly on those who try to use it on an innocent. Such an abuse will cause the spell to flee the paladin and Chadatru's blessing will be elusive for a short period. However, only attempting to harm the innocent will bring any long-lasting repercussions.
I would welcome logging on test server and testing this out if your game?
OSUS
Re: Warding Learning?
12/24/2012 03:21 PM CST
Sure, gimme a time this evening and I'll pop in and lose a few hands for the good of science.
REWYN
Re: Warding Learning?
12/24/2012 03:25 PM CST
Its a date. I would ask to hold your hand, but you know... awkward.
SEBESTYEN64
Re: Warding Learning?
12/24/2012 03:51 PM CST
>>You might wanna get out more, on high end shields especially for paladins/clerics (DA/SOL), you wanna hold em, especially for PVP.
Heavy edge and held shield for PvP here. If BW did not work on the shield, I would wear it. So please, do not take that away so long as there are spells that make characters drop stuff.
~~~
True heroism is remarkably sober, very undramatic. It is not the urge to surpass all others at whatever cost, but the urge to serve others at whatever cost.
Heavy edge and held shield for PvP here. If BW did not work on the shield, I would wear it. So please, do not take that away so long as there are spells that make characters drop stuff.
~~~
True heroism is remarkably sober, very undramatic. It is not the urge to surpass all others at whatever cost, but the urge to serve others at whatever cost.
REWYN
Re: Warding Learning?
12/24/2012 03:56 PM CST
>>Heavy edge and held shield for PvP here. If BW did not work on the shield, I would wear it. So please, do not take that away so long as there are spells that make characters drop stuff.
Well since I dont do HLC pvp, i'll just say that I'm wrong then. However I dont see why an entire spell slot is needed to make BW work on shields (shields have damage ratings and can be used as weapons after all) or why Resonance should not have it. I think its splitting hairs. I feel BW as is should either be a 1 spell slot spell or should gain some other effect to make it worthy of being 2 spell slots.
Keep in mind my tone here: I'm not angry or disgruntled about BW, so as you imagine me here typing, dont get that image in your head. I certainly have been passionate about lots of stuff on the forums, this is more of a "Huh..this seems...wrong or strange, maybe over valued?".
Well since I dont do HLC pvp, i'll just say that I'm wrong then. However I dont see why an entire spell slot is needed to make BW work on shields (shields have damage ratings and can be used as weapons after all) or why Resonance should not have it. I think its splitting hairs. I feel BW as is should either be a 1 spell slot spell or should gain some other effect to make it worthy of being 2 spell slots.
Keep in mind my tone here: I'm not angry or disgruntled about BW, so as you imagine me here typing, dont get that image in your head. I certainly have been passionate about lots of stuff on the forums, this is more of a "Huh..this seems...wrong or strange, maybe over valued?".
BEVERAGEK
Re: Warding Learning?
12/24/2012 03:56 PM CST
I think sword and board is a lot more viable in 3.0 fwiw. I was considering getting a huge held shield for running up to melee, and then swapping it out with an arm worn. Just cause large hand held shields are supposedly more tailored to blocking ranged than small arm-worn shield in 3.0.
But meh, to each their own I guess :P
~ Leilond
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h307/ss1shadow/Leilond_Progression.jpg
But meh, to each their own I guess :P
~ Leilond
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h307/ss1shadow/Leilond_Progression.jpg
VEE-REX
Re: Warding Learning?
12/24/2012 04:27 PM CST
The difference between wearing an arm-worn shield and holding it in 3.0 is so enormous that I'm considering rolling with two shields, one for each.
The one and only reason I've considered going Premie (and haven't done it) is so I can use bonding potions, but hopefully the Micro-Trans thing could incorporate them for a little extra. BW is an ability that I desire tremendously right now just so I could use it on a high quality thrown weapon, and being able to use it on a shield would be great too.
To echo Leilond, to each their own. :D
Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.
-GM Abasha
The one and only reason I've considered going Premie (and haven't done it) is so I can use bonding potions, but hopefully the Micro-Trans thing could incorporate them for a little extra. BW is an ability that I desire tremendously right now just so I could use it on a high quality thrown weapon, and being able to use it on a shield would be great too.
To echo Leilond, to each their own. :D
Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.
-GM Abasha
REWYN
Re: Warding Learning?
12/24/2012 04:29 PM CST
I'm at this point, debating nothing about "hey isnt bonding your shield awesome". Your all right, I'm 100% wrong.
What I'm saying should bonding a SHIELD cost a full spell slot more vs bonding a weapon? That seems like splitting hairs, like buffing your dodge vs melee and range should cost one spell slot each or something.
Shields can be used as weapons, have a damage appraise, etc. I think bonding your weapons and your shields should cost 1 slot. That means resonance would effect shields, and BW would gain some other effect or be lowered to a one spell slot spell (with preference on the former).
What I'm saying should bonding a SHIELD cost a full spell slot more vs bonding a weapon? That seems like splitting hairs, like buffing your dodge vs melee and range should cost one spell slot each or something.
Shields can be used as weapons, have a damage appraise, etc. I think bonding your weapons and your shields should cost 1 slot. That means resonance would effect shields, and BW would gain some other effect or be lowered to a one spell slot spell (with preference on the former).
2DUMBARSE
Re: Warding Learning?
12/24/2012 04:31 PM CST
> Sure, gimme a time this evening and I'll pop in and lose a few hands for the good of science.
Can already tell you it doesn't break hands. It was supposed to according to the 3.0 preliminary spell list. Posted about it in another thread.
Can already tell you it doesn't break hands. It was supposed to according to the 3.0 preliminary spell list. Posted about it in another thread.
BRYCOLE83
Re: Warding Learning?
12/24/2012 06:14 PM CST
>> bond weapon // Rewyn
I think the point everyone is saying is that "bond weapon" itself is so good, it should cost 2 slots even if it were by itself. Most guilds would kill for the ability that technically requires you to pay $40 a month for, plus LTB points.
I also really dislike the way you keep comparing every ability to a different guilds. If every guild had exactly the same things, everyone would be the same guild. Raesh already mentioned he had to take another look at Resonance on his final spellcheck because it may not be playing correctly. Also, has anyone tested whether the negative effects of resonance are still around?
I think the point everyone is saying is that "bond weapon" itself is so good, it should cost 2 slots even if it were by itself. Most guilds would kill for the ability that technically requires you to pay $40 a month for, plus LTB points.
I also really dislike the way you keep comparing every ability to a different guilds. If every guild had exactly the same things, everyone would be the same guild. Raesh already mentioned he had to take another look at Resonance on his final spellcheck because it may not be playing correctly. Also, has anyone tested whether the negative effects of resonance are still around?
DANFORDS2
Re: Warding Learning?
12/24/2012 06:20 PM CST
>the ability that technically requires you to pay $40 a month for, plus LTB points.
IMO, Bond Weapon is better than the LTB potion. The LTB requires you to INVOKE the bond, while the spell doesn't, making the potion useless for disconnects.
Elemental Lord Opieus, Master Warrior Mage of Elanthia
"For a bunch of radical empiricists, the Philosophers' system relies on a whole lot of faith." ~Armifer
IMO, Bond Weapon is better than the LTB potion. The LTB requires you to INVOKE the bond, while the spell doesn't, making the potion useless for disconnects.
Elemental Lord Opieus, Master Warrior Mage of Elanthia
"For a bunch of radical empiricists, the Philosophers' system relies on a whole lot of faith." ~Armifer
THESAGEONE
Re: Warding Learning?
12/24/2012 06:20 PM CST
>gesture mob
You gesture toward a mob and hear a voice from within you bellow, "Respect my authoritah!" the Mob jerks violently toward you!
Fix that for you.
You gesture toward a mob and hear a voice from within you bellow, "Respect my authoritah!" the Mob jerks violently toward you!
Fix that for you.
BRYCOLE83
Re: Warding Learning?
12/24/2012 06:50 PM CST
>> IMO, Bond Weapon is better than the LTB potion. The LTB requires you to INVOKE the bond, while the spell doesn't, making the potion useless for disconnects.
Ah, very nice! Resonance you also have to invoke.
REWYN
Re: Warding Learning?
12/24/2012 09:29 PM CST
>>I think the point everyone is saying is that "bond weapon" itself is so good, it should cost 2 slots even if it were by itself. Most guilds would kill for the ability that technically requires you to pay $40 a month for, plus LTB points.
Maybe you are misunderstanding me, or I'm doing a terrible job being coherent. I'm not saying nerf other guilds abilities. I said I dont think BW should require two slots because it "also works on shields". Not sure what about that is difficult to understand. If nothing I think Resonance should get a buff in terms of what it can bond and also effect shields, cause that distinction hardly seems enough to warrant another spell slot. To make the metaphor, I feel it would be like an evasion buff working on melee attacks costing one slot and it working on ranged costing another.
As to you not like my comparisons, I find the best way to determine somethings relative value is to compare it to similar existing abilities. The fact these are spread out between guilds is not the point (generally). The beauty that I love of 3.0 is it has made things somewhat quantifiable, things cost slots, are set at levels, etc. I'm actually a really big fan of it.
Maybe you are misunderstanding me, or I'm doing a terrible job being coherent. I'm not saying nerf other guilds abilities. I said I dont think BW should require two slots because it "also works on shields". Not sure what about that is difficult to understand. If nothing I think Resonance should get a buff in terms of what it can bond and also effect shields, cause that distinction hardly seems enough to warrant another spell slot. To make the metaphor, I feel it would be like an evasion buff working on melee attacks costing one slot and it working on ranged costing another.
As to you not like my comparisons, I find the best way to determine somethings relative value is to compare it to similar existing abilities. The fact these are spread out between guilds is not the point (generally). The beauty that I love of 3.0 is it has made things somewhat quantifiable, things cost slots, are set at levels, etc. I'm actually a really big fan of it.
GERSTEINJ2
Re: Warding Learning?
12/25/2012 05:22 AM CST
<<gesture mob
You gesture toward a mob and hear a voice from within you bellow, "Respect my authoritah!" the Mob jerks violently toward you!
Fix that for you.>>
with that messaging we'd have to call it the "rock" spell. :-)
<<The real thing DR needs is to get out there to the kids who actually read books.>>
You gesture toward a mob and hear a voice from within you bellow, "Respect my authoritah!" the Mob jerks violently toward you!
Fix that for you.>>
with that messaging we'd have to call it the "rock" spell. :-)
<<The real thing DR needs is to get out there to the kids who actually read books.>>
