As has been stated from the beginning (http://forums.play.net/forums/DragonRealms/The%20Necromancers/Game%20Master%20and%20Official%20Announcements/view/39 ) Empaths are not supposed to be able to heal, shift, link (etc.) Necromancers who have high Divine Outrage. In the past, the Rite of Contrition spell allowed folks to bypass this limitation, but as was said when the spell was released, this loophole was unintended and we have always meant to close it.
With the release of DragonRealms 3.0, the loophole is closed. Empaths will no longer be able to heal, shift, link (etc) a Necromancer with high Divine Outrage. We did try to implement this in a way that would not "out" Necromancers and not render the RoC spell useless for the purposes of deceiving Empaths, however.
There is a new AVOID that has been added in X3, AVOID TOUCH. Anyone can use this avoid -- it does what it says on the tin. So now there is a way to avoid being healed without also having to set your demeanor to Ice Queen.
How healing and Empathy interacts with RoC and DO is a little more complicated. Here's more or less how it will work...
1) Bob is a Necromancer with detectable Divine Outrage
2) Bob casts a Rite of Contrition sufficient to hide that divine outrage.
3) Empath touches Bob, senses nothing bad.
4) Empath tries to heal Bob...
Then either...
5) Bob has detectable (if it weren't for RoC) but not World Ending levels of divine outrage. The Empath gets a scary message and won't be able to heal/shift/link Bob.
or
5) Bob has divine outrage that makes Moon Mages black out just by perceiving him and has even Glythtide about ready to bury him alive under a pile of tarts (that is, close to the God smiting level). Empath will get a very small amount of Empathic shock and be knocked unconscious for a brief time. This does not leave a shock scar, which is in line with the new Empathic sensitivity lore. I can elaborate if anyone wants.
Please let me know if you have questions about this. These restrictions also hold vs. autoempaths, except for autoempaths who are not Empaths (that's to say, Dokt.) I appreciate any testing people are able to do on these systems as obviously testing things that require two or more people is harder to do in a closed test instance.
Melete
Seyalle: It does involve the beard integer.
Melete: THE BEARD INTEGER??? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1Y73sPHKxw
<to be continued...>
DR-MELETE
LAMBL
Re: Empathic Sensitivity vs. Necromantic Corruption: Fight!
11/22/2012 06:40 AM CST
<<Empath will get a very small amount of Empathic shock and be knocked unconscious for a brief time. This does not leave a shock scar, which is in line with the new Empathic sensitivity lore. I can elaborate if anyone wants.>>
Interesting. So clearly contact with Necromantic corruption is Bad for an Empath...wasn't it also said back when the loophole was first mentioned that Empathy would also be equally Bad for a Necromancer? It seems silly to have this be one-sided like that...what horrible things happen to the Necromancer who manages to get touched by Empathy?
Side note, I would indeed be interested in the aforementioned elaboration. I like to keep on top of Shock-related lore :)
Thanks,
-Life Sustainer Karthor
Interesting. So clearly contact with Necromantic corruption is Bad for an Empath...wasn't it also said back when the loophole was first mentioned that Empathy would also be equally Bad for a Necromancer? It seems silly to have this be one-sided like that...what horrible things happen to the Necromancer who manages to get touched by Empathy?
Side note, I would indeed be interested in the aforementioned elaboration. I like to keep on top of Shock-related lore :)
Thanks,
-Life Sustainer Karthor
GERSTEINJ2
Re: Empathic Sensitivity vs. Necromantic Corruption: Fight!
11/22/2012 07:05 AM CST
<<what horrible things happen to the Necromancer who manages to get touched by Empathy?>>
if its an npc empath, you get an angry mob complete with pitchyforks and torchs...
if its a pc, it would depend on who it is. but it renders the possiblity of accusation <see mobs, pitchyforks and torchs>
An arisen dummy zombie bellows, "You will all be ssslaughtered!"
>
if its an npc empath, you get an angry mob complete with pitchyforks and torchs...
if its a pc, it would depend on who it is. but it renders the possiblity of accusation <see mobs, pitchyforks and torchs>
An arisen dummy zombie bellows, "You will all be ssslaughtered!"
>
DR-MELETE
Re: Empathic Sensitivity vs. Necromantic Corruption: Fight!
11/22/2012 07:10 AM CST
>>wasn't it also said back when the loophole was first mentioned that Empathy would also be equally Bad for a Necromancer?
I think the Lyras events pretty clearly demonstrated that Empathy can be Bad for Necromancers. The thing is that the guild has not historically been teaching Empaths how to "weaponize" their Empathy. I have some ideas along this line but until the X3 dust settles and I can get some of the other big pending projects out of the way they will likely have to wait. Further, as always, just because I have an idea doesn't mean my bosses will like the idea or that I can get approval for it.
That said, weaponized Empathy is not a thing the Empath guild is going to be comfortable with anytime soon, so even if something like that existed it would have to be on the margins and not something taught by the guild proper.
>>Side note, I would indeed be interested in the aforementioned elaboration. I like to keep on top of Shock-related lore :)
I can't remember if I have mentioned this before, though it's supposed to be in one of our docs or other. Intent is going out of shock. Swinging at something and missing will no longer cause shock, but hurting something, even accidentally, will cause shock. The consequence is that most Empaths go about their lives at slightly less than their max capability. So a small action that nets a very small amount of shock may not leave a scar, as is the case with Empaths who get the token shock for attempting to heal a Necromancer with very high Divine Outrage.
Melete
Seyalle: It does involve the beard integer.
Melete: THE BEARD INTEGER??? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1Y73sPHKxw
<to be continued...>
I think the Lyras events pretty clearly demonstrated that Empathy can be Bad for Necromancers. The thing is that the guild has not historically been teaching Empaths how to "weaponize" their Empathy. I have some ideas along this line but until the X3 dust settles and I can get some of the other big pending projects out of the way they will likely have to wait. Further, as always, just because I have an idea doesn't mean my bosses will like the idea or that I can get approval for it.
That said, weaponized Empathy is not a thing the Empath guild is going to be comfortable with anytime soon, so even if something like that existed it would have to be on the margins and not something taught by the guild proper.
>>Side note, I would indeed be interested in the aforementioned elaboration. I like to keep on top of Shock-related lore :)
I can't remember if I have mentioned this before, though it's supposed to be in one of our docs or other. Intent is going out of shock. Swinging at something and missing will no longer cause shock, but hurting something, even accidentally, will cause shock. The consequence is that most Empaths go about their lives at slightly less than their max capability. So a small action that nets a very small amount of shock may not leave a scar, as is the case with Empaths who get the token shock for attempting to heal a Necromancer with very high Divine Outrage.
Melete
Seyalle: It does involve the beard integer.
Melete: THE BEARD INTEGER??? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1Y73sPHKxw
<to be continued...>
LAMBL
Re: Empathic Sensitivity vs. Necromantic Corruption: Fight!
11/22/2012 07:21 AM CST
Hrm, I wasn't really thinking about any sort of weaponization...if mere contact with the Necromancer is enough to mess up an Empath, then similarly the contact itself should be equally detrimental to the Necromancer. But the idea of using Empathy as a weapon against Necromancers/undead stuff is certainly more than a little interesting.
Thanks,
-Life Sustainer Karthor
Thanks,
-Life Sustainer Karthor
DR-MELETE
Re: Empathic Sensitivity vs. Necromantic Corruption: Fight!
11/22/2012 07:59 AM CST
>>if mere contact with the Necromancer is enough to mess up an Empath, then similarly the contact itself should be equally detrimental to the Necromancer.
Necromancers don't really have a thanatalogical sense to harm, in the same way that empaths have an empathic sense (though Armifer may correct me on this). They don't accomplish what they do by honing their senses, but by perfecting rituals in a highly mechanical way.
I guess you could compare it to two people who learned to navigate a maze, one by noticing visual clues (say, an arrow pointing in the correct direction) at every turning, and a blind man who uses trial and error as well as memorization in order to find his way to the center through a brute force approach.
If you blindfold them both, the one who is used to navigating by visual clues will be greatly hindered, while the one who navigates by rote memorization and brute force will still be able to navigate to the center.
However, given a different maze and no blindfolds, the person who uses visual clues will still be able to easily find his way to the center, while the brute force memorizer will have to begin the laborious process from scratch.
So empaths, since they are relying on their empathic sense and not ritual and memorization, will be more adversely affected by a diminishing of the empathic sense through a clash with necromantic corruption. Not to say there isn't a way for Empathy to do Bad Things to Necromancers, just that the Modien are not sharing their goodies with the class and are not likely to start doing so anytime soon. <g>
Melete
Seyalle: It does involve the beard integer.
Melete: THE BEARD INTEGER??? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1Y73sPHKxw
<to be continued...>
Necromancers don't really have a thanatalogical sense to harm, in the same way that empaths have an empathic sense (though Armifer may correct me on this). They don't accomplish what they do by honing their senses, but by perfecting rituals in a highly mechanical way.
I guess you could compare it to two people who learned to navigate a maze, one by noticing visual clues (say, an arrow pointing in the correct direction) at every turning, and a blind man who uses trial and error as well as memorization in order to find his way to the center through a brute force approach.
If you blindfold them both, the one who is used to navigating by visual clues will be greatly hindered, while the one who navigates by rote memorization and brute force will still be able to navigate to the center.
However, given a different maze and no blindfolds, the person who uses visual clues will still be able to easily find his way to the center, while the brute force memorizer will have to begin the laborious process from scratch.
So empaths, since they are relying on their empathic sense and not ritual and memorization, will be more adversely affected by a diminishing of the empathic sense through a clash with necromantic corruption. Not to say there isn't a way for Empathy to do Bad Things to Necromancers, just that the Modien are not sharing their goodies with the class and are not likely to start doing so anytime soon. <g>
Melete
Seyalle: It does involve the beard integer.
Melete: THE BEARD INTEGER??? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1Y73sPHKxw
<to be continued...>
GERSTEINJ2
Re: Empathic Sensitivity vs. Necromantic Corruption: Fight!
11/22/2012 08:02 AM CST
And, didn't the empath that used his empathy to link with Lyras lose his empathy? I mean, its bad mojo.
An arisen dummy zombie bellows, "You will all be ssslaughtered!"
>
An arisen dummy zombie bellows, "You will all be ssslaughtered!"
>
LAMBL
Re: Empathic Sensitivity vs. Necromantic Corruption: Fight!
11/22/2012 08:11 AM CST
<<just that the Modien are not sharing their goodies with the class and are not likely to start doing so anytime soon. <g>>>
Did I mention lately how much I hate that about this guild? :/
Thanks,
-Life Sustainer Karthor
Did I mention lately how much I hate that about this guild? :/
Thanks,
-Life Sustainer Karthor
DR-ARMIFER
Re: Empathic Sensitivity vs. Necromantic Corruption: Fight!
11/22/2012 09:18 AM CST
>>Necromancers don't really have a thanatalogical sense to harm, in the same way that empaths have an empathic sense (though Armifer may correct me on this). They don't accomplish what they do by honing their senses, but by perfecting rituals in a highly mechanical way.
This is correct. Necromancers are as insensitive as a normal person, the rituals they enact is what grants them access to the transference link. Not very many people, not even the Philosophers, understand the physics behind this. That is to say, the rituals have a clearly supernatural result but few know why they do.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
This is correct. Necromancers are as insensitive as a normal person, the rituals they enact is what grants them access to the transference link. Not very many people, not even the Philosophers, understand the physics behind this. That is to say, the rituals have a clearly supernatural result but few know why they do.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
