>>I'm having a hard time with the concept of building a crafting system that allows people to make single body part armor pieces, and then update armor so that its double or triple the penalty for wearing armors from different classes, add more hiderance to all armor, and severely lower the exp gained from wearing armor on just a few body parts.

So, please keep in mind that appraisal changed with 3.0. I think a lot of folks are having problems because they see higher hindrance levels and don't realize they may have the same hindrance as before.

My recommendation is to TRY your mixed armor set. Sure, it is harder for Armor Terts (always has been). But, that doesn't mean you can't be entirely effective with a mixed Light + Chain, or Chain + Brig setup. The penalty for mixing really evens out after the second armor anyways.

As for learning, I'll see what might be going on with that. It seems like it could be worse than intended.

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"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes

Double post, sry but...

>The penalty for mixing really evens out after the second armor anyways.

Whatcha mean there? its adding a third class that I'm really having trouble with, because even an insignificant hinderince piece pushes me two full hinderance levels and of course it wont train at all since its so small (that part isnt really new I guess).

Thanks again for the posts.

At the same time tho I dont think you should be able to train it effectively in the brig aventail case. I dont think any amount of combat should lock an armor skill where you are just wearing a neck piece or eye piece. In which case I'm not even sure if it should really help mitigation wise. Just seems silly to me. And I'm a multi armor person (brig and cloth) but I think you should be wearing a fairly large % to learn anything substantial.

~Tezirite Renzar Lorrani

"Power is merely a stepping stone to more power."

>I dont think any amount of combat should lock an armor skill where you are just wearing a neck piece or eye piece.

I do agree.

What I'm saying is I cant wear Chain Head, eyes, neck and gloves, and train chain very well.

Also I cant swap out the chain mask for a insignificantly hidering plate mask (thats the app not after my skills) without instantly gaining two hindrance levels.

I'm not asking to train optimally just from the mask, but putting on something that is the lowest possible hinderance (at zero ranks), with 500 ranks and having a huge penalty from it also doesn't make sense now does it?

>At the same time tho I dont think you should be able to train it effectively in the brig aventail case.

Right. I think it's fine not learning much, if any experience in brig in this case. But doing this would earn you little to no experience, but it also causes a HUGE hit in encumbrance, which seems odd to me.

I use either Brig full body and cloth helm/gloves or Cloth full body and brig helm/gloves and I seem to train just fine. I dont watch my hinderance levels since it doesnt seem to change my effectiveness, but rank wise those set ups keep me within 10 ranks on both armor sets. And thats as a tert armor user. Ill be honest though (and keep in mind this is totally just my opinion) but I dont see the point of more than two armors except for folks who are TDP crazy or for Paladins since I think they need more than 2 armor skills. Even from an RP standpoint it just seems... cluttered. I do understand two armor set ups since having a backup is nice and I can see two fitting together better in practical application than 3+.

~Tezirite Renzar Lorrani

"Power is merely a stepping stone to more power."

>Have to disagree that it's not possible to train both with this setup.

I didn't say not possible. I'm just saying how much less efficient it is than in prime.

I do get the point that they're trying to make it less efficient to train from small armor pieces but I think its way too much.

>I think it might have more to do with HL critters and you might be too high for them.

500 and 700 ranks in Dp Assassins? Is that too high?

>You haven't really given much info in how you've tested this

I did my usual combat routine in 3.0, and in prime I'd be locked in Leather and Chain by the time I was done (at least 30 minutes), In Test its 34/34 leather (which has been grinding at 34/34 for a long time) and 8/34 chain.

>>500 and 700 ranks in Dp Assassins? Is that too high?

My guess would be no, but Kodius has surprised me with the ranks that critters have in 3.0. I believe he said the highest critters in the game (intercessors/elder dillos) are only at 850. So it might be worth trying to step up the ladder to see if there is a difference.

>>I did my usual combat routine in 3.0, and in prime I'd be locked in Leather and Chain by the time I was done (at least 30 minutes)

The length of time might also be part of the problem. If you are killing them quickly, and/or in stealth quite a bit then it'll be harder to get it locked. Another solution might be to add in another melee weapon that is going to keep you at melee with more that 1-2 critters for an extended amount of time.

Either way I wouldn't get discouraged too much. 3.0 is a big change, and is going to taking some adapting your training style to maintain the skills that you want. Some people will have a harder time than others with that.

Oof! I've forwarded that along to Socharis and he'll take a look when he returns.

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"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes

If chance to hit left vs right side was different depending on shields or set ups, it would be so awesome making a Gladiator build. Full plate on the left arm and hand, a helmet, full plate greaves. Warpaint.

Thanks Kodius, that would be... interesting!

______
Kertig Heart Magdar Bluefletch, Mechanical Lore Grand Master of M'Riss

The mixing penalty for armor does seem harsh. Maybe the penalty could be negated for armor types based on ranks and the weights of the armor pieces. Primaries would need less ranks to wear a total weight of a particular armor type when mixing and would suffer a lower penalty when exceeding that weight.

So the penalties modifiers to hindrance would work like this (making up numbers):
Primary - 1 armor types=1.0; 2 armor types=1.05; 3 armor types=1.10; 4 armor types=1.15
Secondary - 1 armor types=1.0; 2 armor types=1.1; 3 armor types=1.2; 4 armor types=1.3
tertiary - 1 armor types=1.0; 2 armor types=1.15; 3 armor types=1.3; 4 armor types=1.45

But these penalties could be negated for each armor type up to a certain weight of that armor type based on ranks.
Primary - 20 stones each 40 ranks in an armor type
Secondary -20 stones each 50 ranks in an armor type
tertiary - 20 stones each 70 ranks in an armor type

So as an example, my armor ranks as an armor tertiary:
Leather Armor - 336.05 - 96 stones of leather
Light Chain - 328.36 - 94 stones of light chain
Light Plate - 138.09 - 39 stones of light plate
Heavy Plate - 131.69 - 37 stones of heavy plate

The way it could work is that the heavy piece being worn is considered the base armor and suffers no penalty. Each additional armor piece would be hit with the modifier unless its weight (plus the weight of pieces in its armor type already worn) is less than the armor skill allows. A weight "pool" would exist for each armor type, and it would be "filled" when an armor piece is worn. The max penalty would be applied to all armor pieces not in the armor pools. Lighter pieces would fill the pool first.

This would allow player's ranks and skillset to factor into how effective they are with multiply armors. It also allows the primaries to wear the heaviest and most protecting pieces at no penalty at much lower ranks, and if they don't have the ranks yet the mixing penalty is much lower.

>>Considering we are going down to only having 4 armor skills period, you are basically 'buffing' armor primaries mixing penalties as they stand.

As far as mixing penalties go, there are currently 4 armor categories - leather+cloth, bone, LC+HC, LP+HP. The only thing changing in 3.0 is that the 4 categories become leather+cloth+bone, LC+HC, LP, HP.

Apu
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http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Apu

It's been stated that Paladins get to ignore mixing penalties; is that a function of the armor skillset placement? As in, do barbs, traders and rangers get to ignore one mixed armor for every... I dunno, 40 circles, and all armor terts get to ignore one mixed armor for every... 60 circles?