So with the changes i've noticed bow weapons are horrible and brawling gives a massive defense penalty....so now when i train i get smacked all the time. I've been a loyal person with Simutronics for 7 years, since I was actually 12 years old...why do i want to play a game where my years of playing goes down the tube and its difficult to train to the point you nearly die most of the time.
PILKINGTONB
REWYN
Re: kinda irritated
12/27/2012 12:58 AM CST
Can you post some logs and additional information about your test? Did you test against a number of creatures (many creatures had their levels changed on test, so just cause you can fight it on Prime does not mean you are meant to fight it on test. Per Kodius, some people will have to go up and down the ladder).
Stats, skills and what you are hunting would be a good start.
Stats, skills and what you are hunting would be a good start.
PILKINGTONB
LHALLFIN
Re: kinda irritated
12/27/2012 04:51 AM CST
Unfortunately, these are pretty much key points in 3.0.
Bows are no longer like shooting a small bus at someones face.
Your fists are no longer as powerful as Chuck Norris.
Combat is no longer as safe as opening the refrigerator door.
A lot of people are going to need a lot more Strength and Stamina.
Everyone is going to need to relearn the combat system in terms of what to fight when, and how to train effectively.
_____
That said its still in test. I myself said recently that I thought bows are wildly inaccurate and brawling doesn't seem to do enough damage.
They do seem to be working on balancing things like this out, but even with balance, its likely many people will still have some issue with something.
NINEVAH1
Re: kinda irritated
12/27/2012 05:35 AM CST
Quick hint on how to use bows now: Use a shield.
The penalty for using a shield has been greatly reduced, and only raises your load time by 1 second if you are not a ranger or barb. Combat has changed, and it's going to take some relearning and adapting your training style to the changes.
Read Blayd's post in the other thread in this folder. He explained why this change is needed better than I can.
The penalty for using a shield has been greatly reduced, and only raises your load time by 1 second if you are not a ranger or barb. Combat has changed, and it's going to take some relearning and adapting your training style to the changes.
Read Blayd's post in the other thread in this folder. He explained why this change is needed better than I can.
SAVEARO
Re: kinda irritated
12/27/2012 08:14 AM CST
Only thing I don't like about ranged is that it is no longer ranged. I find it conceptually weird being at melee with a ranged bow.
TEVESHSZAT
Re: kinda irritated
12/27/2012 12:23 PM CST
>>Your fists are no longer as powerful as Chuck Norris.
Nothing wrong with that, but there is a notable difference between me using brawling vs every other weapon. Brawling just feels weaker, you know?
When in doubt, http://elanthipedia.org/
Nothing wrong with that, but there is a notable difference between me using brawling vs every other weapon. Brawling just feels weaker, you know?
When in doubt, http://elanthipedia.org/
REWYN
Re: kinda irritated
12/27/2012 04:09 PM CST
Which would be ok I feel if brawling did some cooler things, but those seem to be moving to tactics.
GERSTEINJ2
Re: kinda irritated
12/27/2012 05:23 PM CST
<<there is a notable difference between me using brawling vs every other weapon. >>
in some cases, yes - but if you have any character thats brawling prime or secondary, it seems I kill things at level pretty much just as fast by punching it to death. <using the "brawling" weapons though. It might be different bare-fisted.>
<<The real thing DR needs is to get out there to the kids who actually read books.>>
in some cases, yes - but if you have any character thats brawling prime or secondary, it seems I kill things at level pretty much just as fast by punching it to death. <using the "brawling" weapons though. It might be different bare-fisted.>
<<The real thing DR needs is to get out there to the kids who actually read books.>>
GERSTEINJ2
Re: kinda irritated
12/27/2012 05:28 PM CST
maybe when they implement whatever plans they have for tactics, yes. Right now though tactics only utilizes the "non-killing" moves that brawling used to. My bard has more tactics than weapons <lore prime and all>, and can't really DO anything with it except what he used to do with brawling. Dance around with what he's fighting.
<<The real thing DR needs is to get out there to the kids who actually read books.>>
<<The real thing DR needs is to get out there to the kids who actually read books.>>
SHADOWCHIEF3
Re: kinda irritated
12/27/2012 05:35 PM CST
<in some cases, yes - but if you have any character thats brawling prime or secondary, it seems I kill things at level pretty much just as fast by punching it to death. <using the "brawling" weapons though. It might be different bare-fisted.
I'd have to disagree with you here, I've tested quite a bit and found that my brawling which seemed to kill quite a bit easier than my LE in 2.0 now is considerably worse in comparison. They are about 10 ranks apart, brawling being higher. I did seem to take more defensive penalties with brawling as well but that may be associated to the attacks I was using. I used gouge claw elbow kick, which is the same as I use in 2.0 also some others like jab jab punch kick and what not.
Brawling was one of the things I found pretty underwhelming in 3.0, while most other weapons and TM I found pretty decent. though, I would like to say i'm still having a problem doing any real damage with throwing blades. Throwing club seems to do alright damage, nothing great at level since it takes so long to kill now and i'm not really seeing any of the heavy strikes and what not I did in 2.0 but its ok. Blades on the other hand I haven't had any luck with, even on zombie stompers which I kill easy in 1-2 stacks in 2.0 take me 5-6 stacks now but are still squishy pretty much all the other weapons I try. Save brawling of course :P
I'd have to disagree with you here, I've tested quite a bit and found that my brawling which seemed to kill quite a bit easier than my LE in 2.0 now is considerably worse in comparison. They are about 10 ranks apart, brawling being higher. I did seem to take more defensive penalties with brawling as well but that may be associated to the attacks I was using. I used gouge claw elbow kick, which is the same as I use in 2.0 also some others like jab jab punch kick and what not.
Brawling was one of the things I found pretty underwhelming in 3.0, while most other weapons and TM I found pretty decent. though, I would like to say i'm still having a problem doing any real damage with throwing blades. Throwing club seems to do alright damage, nothing great at level since it takes so long to kill now and i'm not really seeing any of the heavy strikes and what not I did in 2.0 but its ok. Blades on the other hand I haven't had any luck with, even on zombie stompers which I kill easy in 1-2 stacks in 2.0 take me 5-6 stacks now but are still squishy pretty much all the other weapons I try. Save brawling of course :P
GERSTEINJ2
Re: kinda irritated
12/27/2012 05:52 PM CST
maybe at higher ranks theres a large difference, again, but for lowbies it seems fairly the same. my bard dwarf char has about 10 difference between brawling and what used to be medium edged, and just straight punches seem to kill things just as fast as slicing with a scim at around 110 ranks of brawl, 120s in small weapon <CAVEAT - NOT using forged weapons, that might make a bigger difference>
<<The real thing DR needs is to get out there to the kids who actually read books.>>
<<The real thing DR needs is to get out there to the kids who actually read books.>>
NINEVAH1
Re: kinda irritated
12/27/2012 06:01 PM CST
>><CAVEAT - NOT using forged weapons, that might make a bigger difference>
I think that this might be the biggest problem. While there are forged brawling weapons, Kodius has said that they don't do a whole lot. I'd like to see a completely working forged brawling gear, and then see how it compares. Or brawling could just need a boost, I haven't done any testing, just throwing out ideas.
I think that this might be the biggest problem. While there are forged brawling weapons, Kodius has said that they don't do a whole lot. I'd like to see a completely working forged brawling gear, and then see how it compares. Or brawling could just need a boost, I haven't done any testing, just throwing out ideas.
TEVESHSZAT
Re: kinda irritated
12/27/2012 07:42 PM CST
>>if you have any character thats brawling prime or secondary
I do. The damage is notably different.
When in doubt, http://elanthipedia.org/
I do. The damage is notably different.
When in doubt, http://elanthipedia.org/
ILLIENA
Re: kinda irritated
12/27/2012 07:56 PM CST
> I do. The damage is notably different.
This. My brawling prime character has a lot of trouble doing damage with it.
This. My brawling prime character has a lot of trouble doing damage with it.
HAMBARD
Re: kinda irritated
12/27/2012 08:06 PM CST
>>I do. The damage is notably different.
Player of Ryken
---
"Life expectancy would grow by leaps and bounds if green vegetables smelled as good as bacon." ~ Doug Larson
AIM - RykenDR
Player of Ryken
---
"Life expectancy would grow by leaps and bounds if green vegetables smelled as good as bacon." ~ Doug Larson
AIM - RykenDR
VAWN
Re: kinda irritated
12/27/2012 08:21 PM CST
>>I do. The damage is notably different.
This some more. Three different barbs, all three brawling "secondary" (but really even with primary), 41 ranks, 130 ranks and 290 ranks respectively. All notably slower to learn than melee weapons. The little ones do not have forged weapons. The medium-sized one does.
~The Prydaen~
This some more. Three different barbs, all three brawling "secondary" (but really even with primary), 41 ranks, 130 ranks and 290 ranks respectively. All notably slower to learn than melee weapons. The little ones do not have forged weapons. The medium-sized one does.
~The Prydaen~
BEVERAGEK
Re: kinda irritated
12/27/2012 08:29 PM CST
Hmm, maybe stats are more weighted with brawling damage? Could have sworn I was laying waste to assassins with 100 strength and only around 900 Brawling.
~ Leilond
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h307/ss1shadow/Leilond_Progression.jpg
~ Leilond
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h307/ss1shadow/Leilond_Progression.jpg
ILLIENA
Re: kinda irritated
12/27/2012 08:41 PM CST
> Hmm, maybe stats are more weighted with brawling damage? Could have sworn I was laying waste to assassins with 100 strength and only around 900 Brawling.
What move are you using? Punch is nice because it gives balance and position without a hefty defense penalty, but the damage isn't great. I imagine kick does more damage, but it's still got too big a defense penalty for me to use at level.
What move are you using? Punch is nice because it gives balance and position without a hefty defense penalty, but the damage isn't great. I imagine kick does more damage, but it's still got too big a defense penalty for me to use at level.
LHALLFIN
Re: kinda irritated
12/27/2012 10:20 PM CST
>Nothing wrong with that, but there is a notable difference between me using brawling vs every other weapon. Brawling just feels weaker, you know?
I do totally agree, which is exactly why I said in the post here and the previous post I referenced that I think brawling doesn't do enough damage even with gear on, but yeah its not right either that in prime I type gouge and the world gets split in half with 1 second rt.
REWYN
Re: kinda irritated
12/27/2012 10:48 PM CST
Does offhand use the secondary RT thing? Not sure if that ever came out.
Brawling could maybe use that, as a method to make it good without making it as powerful as weapons? In fencing/swashbuckling films I always saw people punch or kick eachother in the middle of a sword fight, I imagine the idea that I "stop" swinging my axe to shoulder butt someone seems a bit clunky.
Brawling could maybe use that, as a method to make it good without making it as powerful as weapons? In fencing/swashbuckling films I always saw people punch or kick eachother in the middle of a sword fight, I imagine the idea that I "stop" swinging my axe to shoulder butt someone seems a bit clunky.
