JARRETTJ26
3.0 and why I think its a bad idea
12/26/2012 10:36 PM CST
I have talked to a couple dozen players....who own many dozens more characters....and the general feeling is....DR 3.0 is going to be more work to learn then it is fun to play...I can't speak for all players or guilds but....a cleric needing to relearn all his/her communes, their spells, their devotion and rituals, plus new magic, new combat, new everything...that is not playing a game for fun and relaxation...that is work. I for one never asked for changes on this scale, don't want them, nor think they are needed. New players coming back have said they don't want to relearn an entire new game and how to play it. I've been in he test and can say that as far as the changes affect me....none are for the better of my game playing enjoyment..."want to cast this spell, you need this item and it costs 150 plat....want to cast this spell well too bad, we decided its to strong for you even at 120+circles...oh that commune you used daily...we didn't like it so its gone"
I play DR because I enjoy it....I will not enjoy learning to play a completely new game. Old players coming back....don't want to relearn a new game....new players do not want to try and learn a new game no one can teach them....3.0, while having some merits, will only cause people to give up and say "Why should I pay X a month to not know what I am doing, how to do it and why I have to do it."
While things did need to be fixed....I think 3.0 fixed them til they were broken even worse.
Unless there is going to be a quite literal step by step manual for every changed aspect of DR...people are not going to want to test, and do a trial and error thing. Even if everything is laid out...people are still going to have to change everyting they do in DR....from changing the way they play to altaring all their scrips.
In my opinion....its too much to ask of a small loyal player base that was barely hanging on.
APATHETICSMILE
BLUESUEDESHOES
Re: 3.0 and why I think its a bad idea
12/26/2012 10:56 PM CST
I haven't logged into test, don't want to log into test, and will not log into test. I've never played plat, but I've been a premium subscriber at times, but mostly over the last 12 or more years I've had at least two accounts and as many as four. I like the game, but I'm a guy who is OCD about owner's manuals. I buy a watch? I read the manual. I buy a can opener? I read the manual. I bought Genie 2.0 a decade ago and printed out every last shred of documentation I could get my hands on and read it every day for a month before writing my first script. I don't want to learn a new game, and I don't want to learn one that has no documentation.
One of the things that makes DR great is the wealth of information available to read and learn from. I'm very thankful that there are people willing to conduct box-popping tests, crafting system tests, combat tests, learning rate tests, and compile and publish results either on the forums or a web site like Elanthipedia. I have come to realize there are a lot of people out there with a lot more ability than I have to do such things. I'm afraid with 3.0 we're all going to be shooting arrows in the dark.
When 3.0 is released, I'll spend time learning what I can, evaluating the new skills, new combat, and new spells. If everything feels the same, I'll probably stick around another decade, but if I have to PAFO any of this beyond learning a few basics, I'm done. Oh I know, I can PAFO in the test instance, but I'm not going there. I have never had any desire to be the first to do anything, let alone be a beta-tester. I trust the GM's to do a great job and they have been on a roll for the last 5 years or so. Every release has been great (with the exception of the WATCH verb, but that's another story), so I expect this one will be great also. I hope it is, because I'd like to continue playing.
Elvis has left the building.
One of the things that makes DR great is the wealth of information available to read and learn from. I'm very thankful that there are people willing to conduct box-popping tests, crafting system tests, combat tests, learning rate tests, and compile and publish results either on the forums or a web site like Elanthipedia. I have come to realize there are a lot of people out there with a lot more ability than I have to do such things. I'm afraid with 3.0 we're all going to be shooting arrows in the dark.
When 3.0 is released, I'll spend time learning what I can, evaluating the new skills, new combat, and new spells. If everything feels the same, I'll probably stick around another decade, but if I have to PAFO any of this beyond learning a few basics, I'm done. Oh I know, I can PAFO in the test instance, but I'm not going there. I have never had any desire to be the first to do anything, let alone be a beta-tester. I trust the GM's to do a great job and they have been on a roll for the last 5 years or so. Every release has been great (with the exception of the WATCH verb, but that's another story), so I expect this one will be great also. I hope it is, because I'd like to continue playing.
Elvis has left the building.
REASONMJ
Re: 3.0 and why I think its a bad idea
12/26/2012 10:58 PM CST
I do sort of share the same fear of having to figure out all the new optimal training methods, write new scripts, etc. But it won't last long, people will quickly determine what works well and what doesn't, and modifying scripts is a day's work at best. It took me about 1-2 hours on the PTR to modify my hunting script to have it all the skills it currently trains on Live.
The only thing that will remotely be a big deal at all, is adjusting to the cycle of bugs, bug fixes, new bugs, new bug fixes, etc. This could be anywhere from a huge PITA to a negligible annoyance, depending on how much time 3.0 stays on the PTR before being released to Live
Apu
_
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Apu
The only thing that will remotely be a big deal at all, is adjusting to the cycle of bugs, bug fixes, new bugs, new bug fixes, etc. This could be anywhere from a huge PITA to a negligible annoyance, depending on how much time 3.0 stays on the PTR before being released to Live
Apu
_
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Apu
YANSHADEY
Re: 3.0 and why I think its a bad idea
12/26/2012 11:04 PM CST
Personally, I love most of what 3.0 brings. I've spent a good bit of time figuring out how to learn well in 3.0 and testing spells for my guilds, but totally understand why some will want some more clear notes/documentation.
ILLIENA
Re: 3.0 and why I think its a bad idea
12/26/2012 11:07 PM CST
> ....
Ellipsis are not the wildcard of punctuation.
Ellipsis are not the wildcard of punctuation.
DARKANGEL23
Re: 3.0 and why I think its a bad idea
12/26/2012 11:12 PM CST
>>This could be anywhere from a huge PITA to a negligible annoyance, depending on how much time 3.0 stays on the PTR before being released to Live
My only worry stems from how long this will be. I dont want bugs... no one does, but I dont want March to roll around and still have things on the PTR. Id love for the GMs to give us some goals or things to check and tell how its looking based on what they think could cause issues. We've got several folks still actively digging through bugs (props to the several I see consistantly posting) but every time Ive logged into test the population number is less than 10. Im almost getting to a point where I think it may be better to release it soon and just stay really on top of the bug issues. The big ones seem for the most part to be resolved. Its more of the smaller like typos that Im seeing most of being reported at this point.
~Tezirite Renzar Lorrani
"Power is merely a stepping stone to more power."
My only worry stems from how long this will be. I dont want bugs... no one does, but I dont want March to roll around and still have things on the PTR. Id love for the GMs to give us some goals or things to check and tell how its looking based on what they think could cause issues. We've got several folks still actively digging through bugs (props to the several I see consistantly posting) but every time Ive logged into test the population number is less than 10. Im almost getting to a point where I think it may be better to release it soon and just stay really on top of the bug issues. The big ones seem for the most part to be resolved. Its more of the smaller like typos that Im seeing most of being reported at this point.
~Tezirite Renzar Lorrani
"Power is merely a stepping stone to more power."
BEVERAGEK
Re: 3.0 and why I think its a bad idea
12/26/2012 11:17 PM CST
>>...release it soon and just stay really on top of the bug issues.
Would be awesome IMO :)
~ Leilond
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h307/ss1shadow/Leilond_Progression.jpg
Would be awesome IMO :)
~ Leilond
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h307/ss1shadow/Leilond_Progression.jpg
REWYN
Re: 3.0 and why I think its a bad idea
12/26/2012 11:29 PM CST
I guess I'm exactly the opposite. I see 3.0 as offering more exciting combat, more options and more ways for me to customize my character. PvP feels funner and less one sided (snipe/ranged magic=win!), and I adore the consolidation of what I considered to be overly specialized skills (I actually hope this trend continues a little bit further).
A full refresh of the combat system I also feel was just needed, because in the end the GM's were working with a relatively ancient system which as far as I understand, was very inhibiting for them to make changes. If 3.0 lays the ground work for GM's to create more stuff then I don't see how that is not a win for everyone.
A full refresh of the combat system I also feel was just needed, because in the end the GM's were working with a relatively ancient system which as far as I understand, was very inhibiting for them to make changes. If 3.0 lays the ground work for GM's to create more stuff then I don't see how that is not a win for everyone.
BLAYD
Re: 3.0 and why I think its a bad idea
12/27/2012 01:01 AM CST
I understand where the original poster (and other complaints) come from, this game has been a specific way for a very long time and a real breath of fresh air from many of the games that have fallen by the wayside over the years.
I think the problem comes down to this - the game is also very broken in many ways. What I see happening is that several newer GMs have really set out to make things better in the game and realized at some point that a lot of this stuff could not be updated without things being re-written, or were sick of trying to fix broken things that were not getting better.
At least that is how it feels to me. There have been some wonderful updates to the game in the past couple of years, and badly needed ones. Also there has been a change in thinking as well, so there have been many aspects of the game that have gone in a different direction than it had for years before that.
I have played in Test, and for the most part have really enjoyed myself. Yes, it is VERY different in some ways, but it is still the same game that we all know and love. Yes it is definitely a learning curve, but I don't see it being a HUGE learning curve for most people, but something they can take at their own pace. There is enough that is the same or similar to how it is done now that it won't feel like a totally new game.
the improvements and changing are really something else so far and I cannot wait for it to go live. This is coming from someone who is NOT a trailblazer and relies heavily and E-pedia and other sources to help me on a regular basis. Another thing to note is that those sources already have a fair amount of new info on 3.0 and will have lots more once things go live.
As with all things, give it a try and see how you like it. I would say try Test if you can, just for an hour or two and see what is going on. If you don't like something, you can always bring it up in the 3.0 folders, there have been many things so far that have been talked about.
MOCKERJB
RAIST
Re: 3.0 and why I think its a bad idea
12/27/2012 02:03 AM CST
I don't mean to be mean, but you are long past the point where asking for 3.0 not to be done is going to make any impact.
It's coming, and in the near future. If you can't adapt or don't find it fun anymore, you're going to need to find another game.
Weapons for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Combat Balance List:
http://tinyurl.com/DRBalance
It's coming, and in the near future. If you can't adapt or don't find it fun anymore, you're going to need to find another game.
Weapons for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Combat Balance List:
http://tinyurl.com/DRBalance
REWYN
Re: 3.0 and why I think its a bad idea
12/27/2012 02:30 AM CST
I also want to say one other thing:
Your initial post describes a lot about not knowing what to do.
Elantheapedia has some FANTASTIC information, more or less containing everything you need to know about 3.0 (kudos to all those that work on it). I for one was able to find just about every damn near thing I could have wanted by reading through it, and its being updated all the time.
Your initial post describes a lot about not knowing what to do.
Elantheapedia has some FANTASTIC information, more or less containing everything you need to know about 3.0 (kudos to all those that work on it). I for one was able to find just about every damn near thing I could have wanted by reading through it, and its being updated all the time.
COVERG
Re: 3.0 and why I think its a bad idea
12/27/2012 03:59 AM CST
I do not want to "relearn the world" for all my characters. All existing characters should be able to CHOOSE their spells and abilities, rather than run all the quests and the like to get back to where they are today. If they WANT to, all well and good, but there should be a period of time where they can simply pick, pick, well pick EVERYTHING.
______
Kertig Heart Magdar Bluefletch, Mechanical Lore Grand Master of M'Riss
______
Kertig Heart Magdar Bluefletch, Mechanical Lore Grand Master of M'Riss
VEE-REX
Re: 3.0 and why I think its a bad idea
12/27/2012 05:55 AM CST
If there were no 3.0 plans, I'm pretty sure I would've quit by now.
Bow, stealth/first strike, and BMR are the most hax systems in Prime right now. It only gets worse the higher you get. If you examine the root problems, you'll understand why so much has to be changed in 3.0 to fix some of this stuff.
I know the OP plays Evro... trust me, once you start hitting 800+ in combats you'll see the reason behind so many changes. It's gonna take some re-learning but they are definitely going in the right directino.
Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.
-GM Abasha
Bow, stealth/first strike, and BMR are the most hax systems in Prime right now. It only gets worse the higher you get. If you examine the root problems, you'll understand why so much has to be changed in 3.0 to fix some of this stuff.
I know the OP plays Evro... trust me, once you start hitting 800+ in combats you'll see the reason behind so many changes. It's gonna take some re-learning but they are definitely going in the right directino.
Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.
-GM Abasha
TALEEK
Re: 3.0 and why I think its a bad idea
12/27/2012 06:49 AM CST
>>...release it soon and just stay really on top of the bug issues.
Really hope this doesn't happen. Would much rather see it 99% bug free.
BEVERAGEK
Re: 3.0 and why I think its a bad idea
12/27/2012 07:00 AM CST
>>Would much rather see it 99% bug free.
The problem is there are less and less people in Test nowadays, that we don't even know what all the bugs are, and the big ones have already been fixed. We're finding bits and pieces of bugs here and there, and by we I mean a very small selection of people -- That at this point it would be much more beneficial IMO to release 3.0 to a wider audience to help identify the remaining issues.
~ Leilond
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h307/ss1shadow/Leilond_Progression.jpg
The problem is there are less and less people in Test nowadays, that we don't even know what all the bugs are, and the big ones have already been fixed. We're finding bits and pieces of bugs here and there, and by we I mean a very small selection of people -- That at this point it would be much more beneficial IMO to release 3.0 to a wider audience to help identify the remaining issues.
~ Leilond
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h307/ss1shadow/Leilond_Progression.jpg
DARKANGEL23
Re: 3.0 and why I think its a bad idea
12/27/2012 07:18 AM CST
>>Would much rather see it 99% bug free.
Well the thing here is that 2.0 isnt even at this. So I highly doubt 3.0 will be either. And like Leilond said its getting to where theres really next to no one in test anymore which is more or less just stopping bug finding. Itll be in there till next summer at this rate which I personally dont find acceptable. The major crazy bugs are gone. Most of the stuff we find now are typos or minor glitches. If the GMs have something they wanna see then I think they should give us some goals to test out in the PTR otherwise I dont think anything else major is gonna get checked. The only way to really put it through its paces now is to let the general public have a whack at it. Thats where youre gonna see the last bugs show up regardless of how long it stays in test.
~Tezirite Renzar Lorrani
"Power is merely a stepping stone to more power."
Well the thing here is that 2.0 isnt even at this. So I highly doubt 3.0 will be either. And like Leilond said its getting to where theres really next to no one in test anymore which is more or less just stopping bug finding. Itll be in there till next summer at this rate which I personally dont find acceptable. The major crazy bugs are gone. Most of the stuff we find now are typos or minor glitches. If the GMs have something they wanna see then I think they should give us some goals to test out in the PTR otherwise I dont think anything else major is gonna get checked. The only way to really put it through its paces now is to let the general public have a whack at it. Thats where youre gonna see the last bugs show up regardless of how long it stays in test.
~Tezirite Renzar Lorrani
"Power is merely a stepping stone to more power."
TALEEK
Re: 3.0 and why I think its a bad idea
12/27/2012 07:59 AM CST
>>Itll be in there till next summer at this rate which I personally dont find acceptable.
It could take another year and that would be fine with me.:)
It could take another year and that would be fine with me.:)
JHALIASCLERIC
Re: 3.0 and why I think its a bad idea
12/27/2012 08:08 AM CST
Complaining that 3.0 is 'making you learn new things' makes me roll my eyes so hard I see behind me. DR is one of the slowest changing games I've ever stuck with, and that is what most people complain about. Every time a change is rolled out, people complain that it didn't happen fast enough, and that it happened at all.
The only thing to complain about in 3.0 is that bug testing has revealed some bugs. Whinging that you need to write new scripts is kind of hilarious.
The only thing to complain about in 3.0 is that bug testing has revealed some bugs. Whinging that you need to write new scripts is kind of hilarious.
GERSTEINJ2
Re: 3.0 and why I think its a bad idea
12/27/2012 09:07 AM CST
Let me tell you in all honesty, I felt exactly like you did when 3.0 hit plat. I absolutely hated it. But, I figured I had too much time and money invested in my characters over the years to just up and walk away.
And although I do "roll with the punches" and do "learn new skills" when it comes to RL work, when I'm using something as a creative outlet and hobby, I'd like to be able to stick with "old and cranky and leave-my-hobby-alone, thanks!" <one reason why i'm still using the wizard.
So, I took things a step at a time. I'd tried a few things out in "test". First thing i did was go in and change my Kraelysts travel scripts to also match "athletics" for any climbing/swimming tests. That way I can still use this script in both 2.0 and 3.0.
Then I took each guild a step at a time. I have already a notebook for each guild I play, where I write down the scripts I use and various information. I wrote down spells as I got them. Now, this wasn't easy, because unlike now, it wasn't on Elanthipedia, it was on a GM-created message board that weren't on the simu-forums - which I wasn't able to access for some time. I had to download a new browser in order to get the basic information that I feel could have been posted on these forums - but wasn't. At least its all on Elanthipedia now, so its accessible.
So I played each for a little bit of time, figuring things out, still have to do some adjustments, figuring out what my characters capabilities are, and making notes as necessary. It is a bit like a job, yes.
But at least I'm managing to tolerate most of the changes. There are certain aspects I still don't like. But I will continue to express my feelings as a customer-of-long-standing.
At least the guild I played most often to that point wasn't changing Too many spells. Some of the others its taking me longer to learn new things with though. Still haven't tried to update my ranger yet.
<<The real thing DR needs is to get out there to the kids who actually read books.>>
And although I do "roll with the punches" and do "learn new skills" when it comes to RL work, when I'm using something as a creative outlet and hobby, I'd like to be able to stick with "old and cranky and leave-my-hobby-alone, thanks!" <one reason why i'm still using the wizard.
So, I took things a step at a time. I'd tried a few things out in "test". First thing i did was go in and change my Kraelysts travel scripts to also match "athletics" for any climbing/swimming tests. That way I can still use this script in both 2.0 and 3.0.
Then I took each guild a step at a time. I have already a notebook for each guild I play, where I write down the scripts I use and various information. I wrote down spells as I got them. Now, this wasn't easy, because unlike now, it wasn't on Elanthipedia, it was on a GM-created message board that weren't on the simu-forums - which I wasn't able to access for some time. I had to download a new browser in order to get the basic information that I feel could have been posted on these forums - but wasn't. At least its all on Elanthipedia now, so its accessible.
So I played each for a little bit of time, figuring things out, still have to do some adjustments, figuring out what my characters capabilities are, and making notes as necessary. It is a bit like a job, yes.
But at least I'm managing to tolerate most of the changes. There are certain aspects I still don't like. But I will continue to express my feelings as a customer-of-long-standing.
At least the guild I played most often to that point wasn't changing Too many spells. Some of the others its taking me longer to learn new things with though. Still haven't tried to update my ranger yet.
<<The real thing DR needs is to get out there to the kids who actually read books.>>
KROONERMANREVENGE
Re: 3.0 and why I think its a bad idea
12/27/2012 09:30 AM CST
>.a cleric needing to relearn all his/her communes, their spells, their devotion and rituals
Not true. 2 communes need to requested for. Others carry over. The two requests are the same quest you have already done. Doesn't change a bit.
They function a bit differently. What you may need to learn is how the devotion system works, because there was NO use of it in 2.0 for 99% of the game. It's fairly simple. All the rituals and communes and costs are the same as they were for years. There are 2-3 new rituals.
That's it. It's not a 'new' system.
And not every guild is for every player. Personally, I do not like the new devotion system, and have made plans to play through new characters. Because I cannot expect the game to change what is a solid fundamental system to accommodate my choices. I see the need for such systems, but do not enjoy them, so have stepped out of the guild and looked at fun alternatives.
DR is in a slow death spiral. The customer base is stagnant and decreasing. 3.0 is a chance to brig everything up to base, give it a good even footing, fix insanely broken things, and begin the process of opening up the game again.
Adding nothing to the conversation since 1834.
Not true. 2 communes need to requested for. Others carry over. The two requests are the same quest you have already done. Doesn't change a bit.
They function a bit differently. What you may need to learn is how the devotion system works, because there was NO use of it in 2.0 for 99% of the game. It's fairly simple. All the rituals and communes and costs are the same as they were for years. There are 2-3 new rituals.
That's it. It's not a 'new' system.
And not every guild is for every player. Personally, I do not like the new devotion system, and have made plans to play through new characters. Because I cannot expect the game to change what is a solid fundamental system to accommodate my choices. I see the need for such systems, but do not enjoy them, so have stepped out of the guild and looked at fun alternatives.
DR is in a slow death spiral. The customer base is stagnant and decreasing. 3.0 is a chance to brig everything up to base, give it a good even footing, fix insanely broken things, and begin the process of opening up the game again.
Adding nothing to the conversation since 1834.
JHALIASCLERIC
Re: 3.0 and why I think its a bad idea
12/27/2012 10:11 AM CST
>DR is in a slow death spiral. The customer base is stagnant and decreasing. 3.0 is a chance to brig everything up to base, give it a good even footing, fix insanely broken things, and begin the process of opening up the game again.
But, but, but, different, scared, new! Old, familiar, don't have to think, miss!
But, but, but, different, scared, new! Old, familiar, don't have to think, miss!
REWYN
Re: 3.0 and why I think its a bad idea
12/27/2012 10:15 AM CST
>>Really hope this doesn't happen. Would much rather see it 99% bug free.
Then log on test and help find them. I'm on it an hour or night (average)and many others are on it considerably longer, but in general at most lately I have seen 2 other people on test. If you want the game to be bug free, then you need to help test it, otherwise this objection is hollow.
Then log on test and help find them. I'm on it an hour or night (average)and many others are on it considerably longer, but in general at most lately I have seen 2 other people on test. If you want the game to be bug free, then you need to help test it, otherwise this objection is hollow.
NIKPACK
Re: 3.0 and why I think its a bad idea
12/27/2012 12:43 PM CST
I resisted for a long time (i.e. from when it was first announced until test was opened) learning anything about the plans for 3.0. I was afraid of change. I was afraid of being overwhelmed by it all - from hearing so many plans, having all of those plans change, and learning all these new systems.
I finally took the plunge and played with one system in Test (the magic system), I had a blast. I was surprised.
Yeah it's going to suck having to rewrite or retweak so many training scripts, but sometimes you just have to take the plunge.
Nikpack
I finally took the plunge and played with one system in Test (the magic system), I had a blast. I was surprised.
Yeah it's going to suck having to rewrite or retweak so many training scripts, but sometimes you just have to take the plunge.
Nikpack
SHADOWCHIEF3
Re: 3.0 and why I think its a bad idea
12/27/2012 03:08 PM CST
If you have played DR for a substantial amount of time, and 3.0 is in any way "hard" for you to get the hang of then i'm not sure what to say. Its honestly hard for me to tell the difference for the most part a lot of the time. There are changes that will take a little getting used to but most of these changes are fixes that had really needed to be implemented. Also, its been stated that after this goes live the systems that were put in place will be much easier for the current dev team to build upon and do new things that just weren't possible in the current version.
Critter difficulty is a little wacky though, I currently hunt black apes in prime, i'm actually at the upper end of skills for hunting them defense wise but now they hit me pretty often in test. I am however able to hunt DP Assassins with not much more of a hassle then apes, odd. I think from all the critters i've hunted Black apes seem to have changed the most. Like I said more tweaking will no doubt be done, things will fall in line as time goes on and if all else fails just try out a few new critters that were around the same skill level and i'm sure you'll find something that fits nicely.
Critter difficulty is a little wacky though, I currently hunt black apes in prime, i'm actually at the upper end of skills for hunting them defense wise but now they hit me pretty often in test. I am however able to hunt DP Assassins with not much more of a hassle then apes, odd. I think from all the critters i've hunted Black apes seem to have changed the most. Like I said more tweaking will no doubt be done, things will fall in line as time goes on and if all else fails just try out a few new critters that were around the same skill level and i'm sure you'll find something that fits nicely.
EMICARN
Re: 3.0 and why I think its a bad idea
12/28/2012 05:41 AM CST
>> It's coming, and in the near future. If you can't adapt or don't find it fun anymore, you're going to need to find
>> another game.
And THIS type of attitude is one of the reasons for the attrition DR is seeing.
To put it bluntly anyone who comes into 3.0 is going to find it very frustrating from a combat stand point. While the learning rates are not horrible the ability to kill newbie level monsters is HORRID.
I did a test with a circle 1 character with ship yard rats. It wasn't by any means extensive but I used a dagger and a scimitar, wrote a script to count number of hits before the rat died. I used nothing but ATT to go after it since it seems that it is somewhat intuitive from what I read. I used only store bought weapons in Crossing.
LE: 5 rats - average number of hits: 160
ME: 5 rats - average number of hits: 120
Now I can't speak for anyone besides myself but as a player with a fair working knowledge of the game this seems utterly ridiculous. The focus of the testing seems to be more mid level to HLC, from my reading here, and if 3.0 is hoping to bring in new blood then for my .02 it's a fail in this area.
I see things I like, I see things that make my teeth hurt, and I'll wait to see how it looks when it goes to the prime server. In the meantime, I think any of us who take the opinion that if you hate it GTFO is not going to do anything positive for the community overall.
Your mileage may vary.
DARKANGEL23
Re: 3.0 and why I think its a bad idea
12/28/2012 05:48 AM CST
Well herein lies the issue right now with 3.0 and test. The only folks testing are mid and high level characters. In general Ive found the test instance to be a failure since no one is really using it to hammer things out. There was a bit of a rush right at first but now its barren. And most of us cant test new characters since you need to have an open character slot to do so. I do agree though most everything right now is being skewed into the HLC and PvP areas due to the only people testing. Thats why Im really hoping they get it into Prime soon before things get changed that really muck stuff up.
~Tezirite Renzar Lorrani
"Power is merely a stepping stone to more power."
~Tezirite Renzar Lorrani
"Power is merely a stepping stone to more power."
VEE-REX
Re: 3.0 and why I think its a bad idea
12/28/2012 06:09 AM CST
>>I did a test with a circle 1 character with ship yard rats. It wasn't by any means extensive but I used a dagger and a scimitar, wrote a script to count number of hits before the rat died. I used nothing but ATT to go after it since it seems that it is somewhat intuitive from what I read. I used only store bought weapons in Crossing.
Umm... all you have to do is post your concerns, and I imagine the GMs are not against making these easier for newbies. No sense in getting overly frustrated, throwing your arms up in the air and rebelling against 3.0. If killing ship's rats takes 160 hits, post it. I and many others with common sense will support your concerns.
It's really not that hard.
>>I do agree though most everything right now is being skewed into the HLC and PvP areas due to the only people testing. Thats why Im really hoping they get it into Prime soon before things get changed that really muck stuff up.
All of your posts seem to be dripping with such an anti-PvP tone that I think you should chill out a bit. PvP is actually a valid part of DR right now. You don't have to do it, but that doesn't mean changes shouldn't be made because of it. Especially when you are guaranteed by GMs that they will never release something that ruins PvE.
Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.
-GM Abasha
Umm... all you have to do is post your concerns, and I imagine the GMs are not against making these easier for newbies. No sense in getting overly frustrated, throwing your arms up in the air and rebelling against 3.0. If killing ship's rats takes 160 hits, post it. I and many others with common sense will support your concerns.
It's really not that hard.
>>I do agree though most everything right now is being skewed into the HLC and PvP areas due to the only people testing. Thats why Im really hoping they get it into Prime soon before things get changed that really muck stuff up.
All of your posts seem to be dripping with such an anti-PvP tone that I think you should chill out a bit. PvP is actually a valid part of DR right now. You don't have to do it, but that doesn't mean changes shouldn't be made because of it. Especially when you are guaranteed by GMs that they will never release something that ruins PvE.
Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.
-GM Abasha
DARKANGEL23
Re: 3.0 and why I think its a bad idea
12/28/2012 06:29 AM CST
>>All of your posts seem to be dripping with such an anti-PvP tone that I think you should chill out a bit.
Ive never stated that it wasnt a valid part of DR. And Ive never hid the fact that I couldnt care less for PvP (which Ive found in my many years to be little more than a bully tactic outside of tourneys and challenges). Nor have I said that things shouldnt stay at least somewhat balanced (itll never be perfect in DR) as far as PvP goes. My problem stems from the wave of posts wanting skill checks and the like due to PvP use that will for most intents ruin the ability or make it pointless. If I baulk at someone posting things concerning PvP its not because i hate PvP or said person for participating in it but that Im more concerned with keeping the non-PvP functions intact.
Really to me this is far less about PvP in general and more about the fact that I think the test instance isnt working at this point. A good deal of feedback (tested feedback anyhow) that I see is coming from a very very small number of people. And this isnt helping to find bugs and issues. Its also as I said skewing the data to the viewpoints of the few testing. I wish more folks jumped into test but it just isnt the case and I dont hold that against either them or the folks that are testing and expressing their opinions. What Im trying to do is look at it from my perspective in an attempt to balance things in the ways that I find important (PvE) to the ones I dont (PvP). Im well aware that my views are opposite to some folks and thats my point... otherwise there would be no middle ground to find.
~Tezirite Renzar Lorrani
"Power is merely a stepping stone to more power."
Ive never stated that it wasnt a valid part of DR. And Ive never hid the fact that I couldnt care less for PvP (which Ive found in my many years to be little more than a bully tactic outside of tourneys and challenges). Nor have I said that things shouldnt stay at least somewhat balanced (itll never be perfect in DR) as far as PvP goes. My problem stems from the wave of posts wanting skill checks and the like due to PvP use that will for most intents ruin the ability or make it pointless. If I baulk at someone posting things concerning PvP its not because i hate PvP or said person for participating in it but that Im more concerned with keeping the non-PvP functions intact.
Really to me this is far less about PvP in general and more about the fact that I think the test instance isnt working at this point. A good deal of feedback (tested feedback anyhow) that I see is coming from a very very small number of people. And this isnt helping to find bugs and issues. Its also as I said skewing the data to the viewpoints of the few testing. I wish more folks jumped into test but it just isnt the case and I dont hold that against either them or the folks that are testing and expressing their opinions. What Im trying to do is look at it from my perspective in an attempt to balance things in the ways that I find important (PvE) to the ones I dont (PvP). Im well aware that my views are opposite to some folks and thats my point... otherwise there would be no middle ground to find.
~Tezirite Renzar Lorrani
"Power is merely a stepping stone to more power."
EMICARN
Re: 3.0 and why I think its a bad idea
12/28/2012 07:46 AM CST
<<
Umm... all you have to do is post your concerns, and I imagine the GMs are not against making these easier for newbies. No sense in getting overly frustrated, throwing your arms up in the air and rebelling against 3.0. If killing ship's rats takes 160 hits, post it. I and many others with common sense will support your concerns.
It's really not that hard.
>>
I didn't say I was rebelling did I? Pretty sure I didn't. I did say that Low Level Characters are going to have a difficult, frustrating time in hunting. I also said there were some things I see I like.
Don't mistake a blunt statement that new people coming in are going to find this frustrating with me taking my toys home. I'm waiting to pass final judgement until it's live in Prime for a bit, in the mean time I'm trying to circle up a new character in Prime.
As was said above, the only way to test is burn a character slot or make a trial account to test, I did that and then dropped it just before the 30 day mark. If the GM's think it will help I'll make a new account and start a circle 1 and run it through a bit further then I did.
And for the record, I did post some observations previously. If I had given up I wouldn't bother posting my thoughts here at all, that's just counter productive IMO.
CHARISMATICA
Re: 3.0 and why I think its a bad idea
01/01/2013 12:38 AM CST
I'm a recently returning player and all the 3.0 stuff to me is rather exciting. I spent some time on Elanthipedia and I felt I had a good feel on what to expect. The only thing that really makes my eyes glaze over is crafting.
The new player issue is deeper than just rat difficulties, but I created a new character on Test and managed to use one command on rats to kill them in about 7-8 attacks. Incidentally, I also killed them in about 4-5 casts of fire shards, which was exciting because low level TM has been an issue for myself and some other people I know.
The new player issue is deeper than just rat difficulties, but I created a new character on Test and managed to use one command on rats to kill them in about 7-8 attacks. Incidentally, I also killed them in about 4-5 casts of fire shards, which was exciting because low level TM has been an issue for myself and some other people I know.
DR-SOCHARIS
Re: 3.0 and why I think its a bad idea
01/03/2013 12:48 AM CST
This is a very interesting thread, and I have a few responses (that aren't really very important):
>>Bad idea
At this point, there's no benefit to discussing 'should DR3 happen?'. It's going to happen in the near future.
>> It's coming, and in the near future. If you can't adapt or don't find it fun anymore, you're going to need to find another game.
>>And THIS type of attitude is one of the reasons for the attrition DR is seeing.
I think this is an unfortunately limited perspective. The changes that are happening really must happen, because Combat was originally designed for 20 circles and 100 ranks. It's surprising that it's even playable in 2.0, to be honest - that people continue playing even in the hacked up, rather broken state that 2.0 is in is a testament to people's love of the game. 3.0 revisits that scale and makes a much larger portion of the game designed to scale to the expanse we have now. Combat used to be a monotonous dance with critters that train you well and never threaten you, except that sometimes they'd kill you without any warning or ability to avoid it. Magic was a generally small core system with a few hundred spells doing whatever the creator felt like they should do - There was no adherence to balance or fairness or anything, really. These archaic, hobbyist pastimes are meeting their end in 3.0, and as somebody who spends a lot of time thinking about the future of DR, I couldn't be happier.
>>160 hits with LE, 120 hits with ME
Yeah, that's a bit absurd. That's why it's still in Test, because we're trying to balance things properly.
Keep in mind, though, that you still LEARNED from every strike, which is a huge improvement over 2.0.
--
"The ninety and nine are with dreams, content but the hope of the world made new, is the hundredth man who is grimly bent on making those dreams come true." -E.A.P.
>>Bad idea
At this point, there's no benefit to discussing 'should DR3 happen?'. It's going to happen in the near future.
>> It's coming, and in the near future. If you can't adapt or don't find it fun anymore, you're going to need to find another game.
>>And THIS type of attitude is one of the reasons for the attrition DR is seeing.
I think this is an unfortunately limited perspective. The changes that are happening really must happen, because Combat was originally designed for 20 circles and 100 ranks. It's surprising that it's even playable in 2.0, to be honest - that people continue playing even in the hacked up, rather broken state that 2.0 is in is a testament to people's love of the game. 3.0 revisits that scale and makes a much larger portion of the game designed to scale to the expanse we have now. Combat used to be a monotonous dance with critters that train you well and never threaten you, except that sometimes they'd kill you without any warning or ability to avoid it. Magic was a generally small core system with a few hundred spells doing whatever the creator felt like they should do - There was no adherence to balance or fairness or anything, really. These archaic, hobbyist pastimes are meeting their end in 3.0, and as somebody who spends a lot of time thinking about the future of DR, I couldn't be happier.
>>160 hits with LE, 120 hits with ME
Yeah, that's a bit absurd. That's why it's still in Test, because we're trying to balance things properly.
Keep in mind, though, that you still LEARNED from every strike, which is a huge improvement over 2.0.
--
"The ninety and nine are with dreams, content but the hope of the world made new, is the hundredth man who is grimly bent on making those dreams come true." -E.A.P.
