Horn used to be my go to hunt spell though on Test it seems much less accurate. At about 260 in TM (aligned with Dergati) at prep's from minimum to 15 prep and 30 harnessed I'm missing quite a bit more than I am in DR 2.0. The hits also seem weaker. I've also adjusted my potency to 130 and duration to 70 to try to give the spell more oomph.. but so far it seems a bit flat. Anyone else have similar issues with HORN?
Thanks,
Cogg
TDKULLON1
TDKULLON1
Re: Horn efficacy
12/28/2012 11:30 AM CST
Sorry about that, I forgot to say what it was that I was missing. Caracals are what I'm testing it on.
Thanks,
Cogg
Thanks,
Cogg
BEVERAGEK
Re: Horn efficacy
12/28/2012 11:31 AM CST
I know there's a big difference in the way damage is calculated between 2.0 and 3.0. As far as accuracy goes, I know some creatures got harder and some got easier -- This may be a case of the critter you're hunting in 2.0 got harder in 3.0, but I couldn't say for certain.
Also because TM spells have 0 duration anyway, I'm not sure that lowing duration to 70% and raising potency to 100% would do any good in this case.
~ Leilond
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h307/ss1shadow/Leilond_Progression.jpg
Also because TM spells have 0 duration anyway, I'm not sure that lowing duration to 70% and raising potency to 100% would do any good in this case.
~ Leilond
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h307/ss1shadow/Leilond_Progression.jpg
JARRETTJ26
Re: Horn efficacy
12/28/2012 03:56 PM CST
I did some messing around with horn in test. Currently hunting resuscitants/headsplitters, I can one shot them with a 30 prepprd horn. In test, had to prep horn at 8, harness up 5 four times, take a full target, and miss. So I dialed it down...went to something easy, swamp trolls. prep horn at 8, harness 5 mana four times, full target and, light hit. Took me 5 casts of horn, at 28 mana each, to kill a swamp troll. TM is over 600, all other magics range between 650 and 850. Was aligned for TM bonus.
really does seem to have been nerfed down severely
OLSONM6
Re: Horn efficacy
12/28/2012 04:01 PM CST
I hope the AIM damage boost that Kodius just posted about adding to bows gets made into a TARGET time damage boost for TM.
TDKULLON1
Re: Horn efficacy
12/28/2012 06:19 PM CST
Thanks for testing this. I did further testing with a range of preps/harnessing. I have about 450 PM/Harness to back up the TM. I should also note that FF was able to hit and do decent damage. Next I'll need to figure out Melee combat. I'm like a wet noodle flailing my scimitar around. That likely has much to do with being stuck in my normal feint, draw, sweep, slice, chop, routines.
Cogg
Cogg
MOCKERJB
Re: Horn efficacy
12/28/2012 06:22 PM CST
In my experience, slice is very good for (surprise!) slice damage weapons, and swing is good for impact. Draw is good, but heavier on the stamina hit, if you have a good spread of stats on the weapon. I generally just use those with jabs thrown in so far, and that works well for me.
SHADOWCHIEF3
Re: Horn efficacy
12/28/2012 06:30 PM CST
<I did some messing around with horn in test. Currently hunting resuscitants/headsplitters, I can one shot them with a 30 prepprd horn. In test, had to prep horn at 8, harness up 5 four times, take a full target, and miss. So I dialed it down...went to something easy, swamp trolls. prep horn at 8, harness 5 mana four times, full target and, light hit. Took me 5 casts of horn, at 28 mana each, to kill a swamp troll. TM is over 600, all other magics range between 650 and 850. Was aligned for TM bonus.
In 3.0 your casting the spell with way to low of mana, try casting at like 70 mana or so. The max now for horn as i seen was 100. Yeah it sucks but its pretty much the same with every guild. At least thats how i've seen it with at level opponents, however, the swamp troll thing does seem off and I haven't really tested much on lower level critters.
In 3.0 your casting the spell with way to low of mana, try casting at like 70 mana or so. The max now for horn as i seen was 100. Yeah it sucks but its pretty much the same with every guild. At least thats how i've seen it with at level opponents, however, the swamp troll thing does seem off and I haven't really tested much on lower level critters.
DARKANGEL23
Re: Horn efficacy
12/28/2012 06:37 PM CST
>>I haven't really tested much on lower level critters.
Nope hes gettin the right results. It takes me 3-5 casts at those mana levels to even kill wood trolls.
>>try casting at like 70 mana or so.
This is what you need to be doing. Its the only part of new magic Im very disappointed in. Its nice that there is this big new range but youll need camb or harnessing to cast these new ridiculous mana amounts without draining yourself in two casts and still get the results youre wanting to get.
~Tezirite Renzar Lorrani
"Power is merely a stepping stone to more power."
Nope hes gettin the right results. It takes me 3-5 casts at those mana levels to even kill wood trolls.
>>try casting at like 70 mana or so.
This is what you need to be doing. Its the only part of new magic Im very disappointed in. Its nice that there is this big new range but youll need camb or harnessing to cast these new ridiculous mana amounts without draining yourself in two casts and still get the results youre wanting to get.
~Tezirite Renzar Lorrani
"Power is merely a stepping stone to more power."
KROONERMANREVENGE
Re: Horn efficacy
12/28/2012 08:45 PM CST
>This is what you need to be doing. Its the only part of new magic Im very disappointed in. Its nice that there is this big new range but youll need camb or harnessing to cast these new ridiculous mana amounts without draining yourself in two casts and still get the results youre wanting to get.
Ya. Having to cast everything at 50-100 mana to train or get function out of it is...not thrilling. Sort of ruins magic for me, but I've kept quiet about it because it's a good design concept and I'm a bitter whiner.
Adding nothing to the conversation since 1834.
Ya. Having to cast everything at 50-100 mana to train or get function out of it is...not thrilling. Sort of ruins magic for me, but I've kept quiet about it because it's a good design concept and I'm a bitter whiner.
Adding nothing to the conversation since 1834.
DARKANGEL23
Re: Horn efficacy
12/28/2012 10:06 PM CST
>>Sort of ruins magic for me, but I've kept quiet about it because it's a good design concept and I'm a bitter whiner.
Well I havent been quiet about it but I also havent really gotten any responses about it yet. I think if the mana pool increased more than it does as you grow in skill then this would cease to be an issue but as of now its really the only part of 3.0 that Im really unhappy about. I dont like being forced into using camb or harness if I dont want to but currently you have to otherwise youre tanking your mana in two casts.
~Tezirite Renzar Lorrani
"Power is merely a stepping stone to more power."
Well I havent been quiet about it but I also havent really gotten any responses about it yet. I think if the mana pool increased more than it does as you grow in skill then this would cease to be an issue but as of now its really the only part of 3.0 that Im really unhappy about. I dont like being forced into using camb or harness if I dont want to but currently you have to otherwise youre tanking your mana in two casts.
~Tezirite Renzar Lorrani
"Power is merely a stepping stone to more power."
JARRETTJ26
Re: Horn efficacy
12/30/2012 11:23 AM CST
few more tests...using horn at 30 prep with 2 harnesses of 30 each and a full target, took 2 to 3 casts to kill a blood wolf/young ogre. I tend to think that something over 100 circles below my skills shouldn't be able to handle three 90 mana casts at full target. Will do some testing at level later on, but I am not hoping for happy results.
REWYN
Re: Horn efficacy
12/31/2012 03:15 AM CST
Killing things below your level is not super fast/one shot like it is in live. Your generally balanced vs 'at level' things, and can hurt things above your level (which might be impossible in 2.0) and generally can hurt things below your circle well (but not one shot machine gun kill like in 2.0).
I'm not saying this is what you are seeing in your tests, but I believe 4-6 spells to kill something 'at level' sounds pretty logical depending on how long you are targeting. I know in Test I was able to kill a 'at level' gryphon with 6 casts of footsman strike, with full aims, and that spell is hardly the best killer in the world.
I'm not saying this is what you are seeing in your tests, but I believe 4-6 spells to kill something 'at level' sounds pretty logical depending on how long you are targeting. I know in Test I was able to kill a 'at level' gryphon with 6 casts of footsman strike, with full aims, and that spell is hardly the best killer in the world.
KROONERMANREVENGE
Re: Horn efficacy
12/31/2012 05:39 AM CST
You may want to try horn at-level, as others have suggested; spells and skills do not scale down well at all any more. This works to player advantage in that wandering through sky giants or Apes is no longer a death sentence, but it also means you have to 4-5 shot something instead of 1 shotting it. It's heavily involved in the new combat systems, along with the new vit barrier mechanic. Try throwing several very low mana spells at the critters, like snapped min-preps, and you should see killing increase a lot.
GMs are talking about what to do, if anything at all.
Adding nothing to the conversation since 1834.
GMs are talking about what to do, if anything at all.
Adding nothing to the conversation since 1834.
REWYN
Re: Horn efficacy
12/31/2012 12:49 PM CST
In general i feel single target spells need some more omph based off targeting vs multi strike spells, which seem to play too well into the new vit model, but in general I've been able to kill pretty well with my TM spells (which do only physical damage, in general not as ideal as other TM spells).
TDKULLON1
Re: Horn efficacy
12/31/2012 01:04 PM CST
I'm finding that to use TM to hunt effectively I'm tapping out my mana too quickly. Even when prepping at 20% overall mana used and then harnessing the other 80%, 20% at a time. Basically horn 15 (har 15) * 4 drains my mana pretty quickly even in higher end mana rooms. So using just spells in such a fashion I'm tapped after 3 kills (even when skinning in between kills) when hunting with magic only. Considering I'm using harness to power the spells I can't really combine magic hunting with weapon hunting considering the round times.
BEVERAGEK
Re: Horn efficacy
12/31/2012 01:05 PM CST
>>Basically horn 15 (har 15) * 4 drains my mana pretty quickly even in higher end mana rooms.
Have you tried using cambrinth instead of harnessing mana? Made a night and day difference for me.
~ Leilond
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h307/ss1shadow/Leilond_Progression.jpg
Have you tried using cambrinth instead of harnessing mana? Made a night and day difference for me.
~ Leilond
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h307/ss1shadow/Leilond_Progression.jpg
REWYN
Re: Horn efficacy
12/31/2012 01:08 PM CST
Well a few things
In 3.0 you will be 'low' on mana alot, since you regen mana slower at near full mana and much quicker when low on mana. I suspect you need to play with your numbers a little to find what you can sustain (maybe 15 * 4 is too much but 12 * 4 is sustainable?). Also I want to confirm you have all the harness/efficiency spell feats?
I was able to sustain casting my footsmans strike for quite a while, albeit not at nearly those mana levels, but I'm just a wee paladin. Magic is hard :(
In 3.0 you will be 'low' on mana alot, since you regen mana slower at near full mana and much quicker when low on mana. I suspect you need to play with your numbers a little to find what you can sustain (maybe 15 * 4 is too much but 12 * 4 is sustainable?). Also I want to confirm you have all the harness/efficiency spell feats?
I was able to sustain casting my footsmans strike for quite a while, albeit not at nearly those mana levels, but I'm just a wee paladin. Magic is hard :(
LUCKYSEVENS
Re: Horn efficacy
12/31/2012 02:25 PM CST
Try using cambrinth - it is far more efficient. Also, try harnessing in smaller chunks? Not sure what your skills are, or what kind of mana you're using, but I've found cambrinth to be the best way to move magic.
GENT
GENT
KROONERMANREVENGE
Re: Horn efficacy
12/31/2012 02:51 PM CST
Ya, the mana paradigm changes, so being tapped is beneficial vs. staying at 100% for max regen, can you still maintain a full mana cast when you're at low mana? You may find you can actually just sit comfortably at the 20-30% mana range without tapping out or going higher.
Adding nothing to the conversation since 1834.
Adding nothing to the conversation since 1834.
TDKULLON1
Re: Horn efficacy
12/31/2012 04:20 PM CST
I'll play around a bit more, my magics are in the 450 range (TM is the low ball at 260ish). I'll try using camb items instead of regular harness.
Thanks for the suggestions!
Cogg
Thanks for the suggestions!
Cogg
REWYN
Re: Horn efficacy
12/31/2012 04:52 PM CST
Keep in mind rt for charging camb seems in general (at least for me) far shorter. So doing min prep plus 5 x 10 charges will probably be more RT efficient than it is on 2.0 (at least it is for me).
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Horn efficacy
12/31/2012 04:53 PM CST
>>Keep in mind rt for charging camb seems in general (at least for me) far shorter. So doing min prep plus 5 x 10 charges will probably be more RT efficient than it is on 2.0 (at least it is for me).
Camb RT reduction is up there with raw channeling as the things I love about 3.0
The teeth lands a solid (5/23) hit that pokes the teeth into Turul's rear end (more embarrassing than painful!).
Camb RT reduction is up there with raw channeling as the things I love about 3.0
The teeth lands a solid (5/23) hit that pokes the teeth into Turul's rear end (more embarrassing than painful!).
