I have not tested a whole lot. The missing stuff leaves the guild with an unfinished feel to it. If I spend all my slots now for roars, meditations, dances and berserks, will I be able to drop them (easly/for free) when the rest of our abilities come out? Forget everything and choose again from the final, finished list of abilities. If not, how about posting a list of these abilities with their costs so I can make an informed decision?

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Kertig Heart Magdar Bluefletch, Mechanical Lore Grand Master of M'Riss

another plat-side barb here, I feel its pretty much ready to roll. Combat-wise, I still do miss berserk stone. I would like to see more in-game explanation on the lore side of things <barbarian histories and such>.

Some of the guildleaders still aren't properly set for their designated pathways as well.




-g-


<<The real thing DR needs is to get out there to the kids who actually read books.>>

>>but dragon and eagle really don't seem to do much of anything noticeable.

Could be wrong since I don't play a barb, but these two are just a to-hit bonus if I remember right. So with your ranks it's not surprising that you don't see much from them.

Skill boosters are not going to be useful if you utterly beat a skill check every time. The issue with 2.0 combat was that if you succeeded a check in combat that the 'accuracy' was resulting in extra damage and that has been capped. In that model, stacking to hit bonuses was 'the way' to win. In the new model different buffs will have varying usefulness based on the situation. If you are already smacking something well enough to cap the accuracy damage bonus, then abilities that boost strength and 'damage' are going to be more useful. The old system meant dragon was the only thing ever worth dancing, where now based off what your fighting (above or below your skill) different dances will be useful or not useful. If you have trouble hitting something 'well', I suspect dragon will be better than most of your other dances in terms of combat performance.

I think the idea that something should always be useful makes things very difficult to balance around, and would make creating more abilities harder and harder. Combining them would also seem to be a 4 slot cost ability and I imagine increase the inner fire consumption considerably. I'm no barbarian but I figure having them be separate is more preferable so your not paying the IF cost for something your not using?

>>As a DR Plat player, we were forced to make the switch months ago (so, maybe I'm biased), but with that said I like the set-up of the guild more under 3.0 than I did under 2.0. Most of my concerns are over duration/power/session-cost issues; the foundation of the guild is pretty awesome IMO, and is ready to go.

Yet another Plat Barb, and I agree with this enough that I don't want to try and do better. IF tweaks should cure the last vestiges of concern. One in particular: I fine it a little difficult (though not impossible) to maintain IF, even running one basic form, at low levels (12th) circle) with some of the larger weapons. Larger weapons with 9 second RTs make killing quickly enough to keep up a challenge. If this is as intended, then carry on. I don't really have that big a problem with optimization being a challenge at new levels, and I did say it wasn't impossible, so...

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~The Prydaen~

Coming from the lil barb vs higher level MU perspective - I find the biggest lack facing the guild as a whole is based around IF. As a modest ranked caster I can easily maintain 8 combat buffs (paladin, 350-500 magics), and maintain some juice for the odd disabler or weapon boosting spell as I swap around (while running a cyclic). Admittedly I feel like I'm fairly adapt at managing mana but it doesn't seem like Barbarians can quite match that level of boostage.

I'm not sure if the best answer is lower costs, higher regen, higher 'base' IF level, (though faster regen I think would be the ticket), but it doesn't seem like its quite there yet.

Samsaren

>>Would be cool/reasonable if Barbarians had some Heighten Pain-like damage booster, only it would be limited only to attacks they do on the target. So you're not explicitly hitting harder as much as the damage landing on the target is greater.

I'm shocked they don't have a roar for such. Though a called-shot damage boost/'heavy-hit' type attack via expertise would fit as well.

I might be alone in this but I am not terribly excited about the seeming role of berserks as supplemental abilities only. I would much rather have some tradeoffs in order to be a barbarian wrecking machine with full inner fire right now running four berserks feels outside design and just weak compared to running a meditation form berserk combo.

>>I might be alone in this but I am not terribly excited about the seeming role of berserks as supplemental abilities only. I would much rather have some tradeoffs in order to be a barbarian wrecking machine with full inner fire right now running four berserks feels outside design and just weak compared to running a meditation form berserk combo.

I'm also a bit sad-faced that berserks have become supplemental as I always liked them the most thematically, but I can easily see why they were designed as such. Many aspects of berserks were incredibly powerful, and were allowed to be such only because of the silly drawbacks and the fact that they were not stackable with dances.

The inflexibility of the old model was by far my biggest complaint, so I'll take short berserks over only being able to use one buff at a time any day. It also makes sense when you consider that the setup of barbarian abilities and their durations are akin to magic buffs when broken down by category, with berserks being roughly analogous to battle spells, forms to non-battle spells, and meditations to ritual spells. Much easier to balance everything when they have similar designs.

In regards to overall status of 3.0, I'd still like to see the discussed uptick in IF usage allowing us to have a another buff or two active at high levels after mana was uptweaked. I'm also very happy with the upcoming changes, with my only concern being the aforementioned lack of any way to increase damage output that feels nominal.

I think that's a great idea for a form.

>>I was thinking more along the lines of a direct bonus to the "damage roll," in the same way Eagle's a bonus to the "to-hit" role.

This. Besides, we already have an ability that ups both balance and suitedness on a weapon.

>get broad
You get a tempered broadsword with a honed blade from inside your dark leather backpack.
>app broad
A tempered broadsword with a honed blade is a heavy edged melee-ranged weapon.
A tempered broadsword with a honed blade trains the large edged skill.

You are certain that it could do:
poor puncture damage
great slice damage
somewhat fair impact damage
no fire damage
no cold damage
no electric damage

The broadsword is poorly designed for improving the force of your attacks.

You are certain that the broadsword is decently balanced and is reasonably suited to gaining extra attack power from your strength.

You are certain that the broadsword is somewhat unsound against damage, and is practically in mint condition.

The broadsword is made with metal.
You are certain that the broadsword weighs exactly 32 stones.
You are certain that the broadsword is worth exactly 6237 kronars.
Roundtime: 8 seconds.
>
Your spirit feels less drained.

>berserk tsunami
Your hands shake in anticpation of releasing the fury of the tsunami down upon your foes!
The broadsword in your hands suddenly feels easier to wield, and more capable of powerful attacks.

>app broad
A tempered broadsword with a honed blade is a heavy edged melee-ranged weapon.
A tempered broadsword with a honed blade trains the large edged skill.

You are certain that it could do:
poor puncture damage
great slice damage
somewhat fair impact damage
no fire damage
no cold damage
no electric damage

The broadsword is poorly designed for improving the force of your attacks.

You are certain that the broadsword is reasonably balanced and is soundly suited to gaining extra attack power from your strength.

You are certain that the broadsword is somewhat unsound against damage, and is practically in mint condition.

The broadsword is made with metal.
You are certain that the broadsword weighs exactly 32 stones.
You are certain that the broadsword is worth exactly 6237 kronars.
Roundtime: 8 seconds.

I tested it some time ago and noticed absolutely no difference (although it's clearly there) in damage using Tsunami and not using it. It's also very taxing on Inner Fire when not hunting, so I probably wouldn't use it much. What's interesting is that it didn't work on my kertig bastard sword, and when I dropped my weapon I kept getting this message:

>>You hands tremble at the lack a melee weapon to funnel your waves of rage into!

>>You hands tremble at the lack a melee weapon to funnel your waves of rage into!

The broadsword reverted immediately back to its original stats when I dropped it, but I was wondering if the above was just messaging or if it was actually doing something.

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Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.

-GM Abasha

>>I was thinking more along the lines of a direct bonus to the "damage roll," in the same way Eagle's a bonus to the "to-hit" role. Upping the suitedness of a weapon is a neat idea and very in keeping with the guild theme, but the impact on damage output would be nominal at best. I could see this being added as a flat perk to an already-existing form, maybe at the cost of an additional slot.

The effect of suitedness on damage was upped considerably during 3.0. Testing before/after those changes I saw an enormous increase with my weapon (a heavy suitedness, low balance weapon) on test. Casting RUE for me does not change any of my core damage stats (weapon is already at/near cap) but does increase suitedness by two marks and I 'feel' harder hits. I can't say that with authority since of course I cant see the actual damage numbers but thats my opinion.

<<You'll be happy to know that one of the maneuvers will likely increase berserk duration somewhat. >>

I would still like to have a list of all maneuvers and other abilities yet to come including their slot cost and what they will do.
______
Kertig Heart Magdar Bluefletch, Mechanical Lore Grand Master of M'Riss

I will say that me and Gort were messing around with Firekast in test.

The rate at which Firekast regained mana was astounding. My Serenity + Swan barriers really didn't stand much of a chance because after slinging 5+ max spells, he'd regain mana extremely quickly and repeat. He also told us he didn't even bother using his gath mysanda, and that he could pre-charge a lot of orbs to refill it anyway. My Serenity + Swan is totally not worth it if someone could effectively cast 20+ max prepped spells like it's nothing.

Not saying Inner Fire should function as easily as mana, but we definitely need more options at refilling it if not an adjustment to how it works.

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Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.

-GM Abasha

What stops you from keeping 15 orbs in your backpack?

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Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.

-GM Abasha

> cast 20+ max prepped spells like it's nothing.

As a data point, in order to cast 20 spells at 100 mana with the aid of cambrinth, I needed to slow myself to one cast every 14 seconds. This was in a blazing room. At 12 seconds, I could only manage 14 casts before I was tapped. At 16 seconds, I could go indefinitely. Keep in mind that I was in perpetual roundtime from charging.

>>Not saying Inner Fire should function as easily as mana, but we definitely need more options at refilling it if not an adjustment to how it works.

What is stopping you from slinging a half-dozen roars at these mages? Just saying... voice level may drop, but you should be able to easily affect him for a while, and longer with ale/masks/cyclone/shriek. It isn't like they use an appreciable amount of IF to restrict their usage.

Barbarian abilities excel at being available quicker than spells. However, Inner Fire is a harder to manage resource than mana. This is the tradeoff for being a Supernatural Tertiary Guild with an excellent combat skillset placement.

As for running out of IF - I can see that being a problem with Serenity. But keep in mind that a capped Serenity + Swan is pretty much immunity from magic for a time. If this doesn't allow you to immobilize, knockdown, get to melee and beat the snot out of a mage... then no amount of IF will.

The Mana Torrent roar (mana drain and regen penalty) could help turn the tide back in your favor. More IF skill will also help. Meditations such as Serenity continue to see improvement from more IF skill, up to 1500 ranks.

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"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes

>>What stops you from keeping 15 orbs in your backpack?

I'm assuming you mean cambrinth orbs. I would say playability. First off holding that many in a pack is a pain. Second trying to cycle through that many orbs in a fight would be ridiculous. If I have that much time to dig each one out then I'm prolly not gonna lose anyway. And finally the cam orbs leak.. more so with more mana. So unless you said lets fight at high noon tomorrow theres next to no plausibility that 15 fully charged orbs were ready to go. Thats like having to swap out a new sword every time you swing it.

~Tezirite Renzar Lorrani

"Power is merely a stepping stone to more power."

>>well I guess the rest will boil down to more Inner Fire skill.

A barbarian manever that increases your passive IF regen might also help... still working on those.

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"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes

Mana Torrent penalizes regen rate as well? Interesting, I did not know that, I'll have to test it out. That makes it much more appealing if the penalty is significant and it lasts a couple minutes.

Speaking of, have inner fire hits returned? I haven't had much time in-game to test recently, but if we can damage mana pools again, I assume at some point that would become a two-way street.