I am making this a new thread so as not to hijack the one dedicated to Strike.

>>I think Gort has repeatedly noted the unbalance of some roars under certain circumstances

Roars seem seriously odd still. I haven't mentioned anything in a while, since Kodius was slated to look at it last I heard. But since it came up... Example: A baby Barb with 47 ranks of Debilitation. I gain ~3 mind states per roar (using roar area) vs. three musk hogs... but vs. two forager goblins and on hog, less than one mind state. I understand that 47 ranks might be a bit much to expect it to learn well on goblins... but then why would it learn so well against the easier hogs? All roars were successful for anyone that might wonder.

This was a while back, but I haven't heard of anything changing since I tested with this character.

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~The Prydaen~

At the time I don't think it was Strike for me, it was Roar Wail which kept me immobilized for 20-60 seconds each roar.

The thing is, Gort couldn't roar me normally when I had Redeemer's Pride up; however once he used a roar mask, he was all of a sudden able to instantly destroy my entire Redeemer's Pride with a single roar and immobilize me for the same 20-60 seconds, all for the cost of a few RT of activating the mask, which he could apparently repeat as many times as he liked.

So, infinite roars(apparently roars don't drain hardly any Inner Fire) + infinite use of roar masks(small RT to activate) = infinite completely destroyed barrier spells against a Bard with 99/99/99 in Discipline, Intelligence and Wisdom respectively. This is something not even Traim was able to accomplish with higher Mind stats :P

~ Leilond
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h307/ss1shadow/Leilond_Progression.jpg

<<all for the cost of a few RT of activating the mask,>>

i keep seeing posts about this, I have a roar helm <from previous fest> doesn't have any "study" or anything, how exactly is this "activated"? I've not noticed any verbs with my helm, I just wear it.


<<The real thing DR needs is to get out there to the kids who actually read books.>>

I think redeemers pride is like psy shield, and not like shear (and other barriers in that vein you might be thinking of) in that RP should ablatively decrease based upon the strength of the success of the incoming spell. As Leilond noted, this type of barrier is about impossible to quickly kill or bypass (unlike shear etc) but it sounds like there's a certain roar set up that will do it. For reference, it takes me (at pretty equivalent relevant stats) a handful of max 100 MB casts to do to redeemers pride what that single roar did.

>>This makes me sadface because I have fought a at level barb before and they roared my face off to the effect that I probably could have went and made myself a sandwich before that dang roar wore off.

Are you talking about test or Prime? The insane durations are only a Prime thing, and roars have changed significantly in test. In Prime you'd have more than enough time to go make a full course dinner, then take a nap afterwards. In 3.0 the effects shouldn't last nearly as long so if they are lasting longer than intended (which is 20'ish seconds I believe for max success) then Kodius should take another look at them. Voice levels aren't working properly so he'll have to look into that too.

>>I think redeemers pride is like psy shield, and not like shear (and other barriers in that vein you might be thinking of) in that RP should ablatively decrease based upon the strength of the success of the incoming spell. As Leilond noted, this type of barrier is about impossible to quickly kill or bypass (unlike shear etc) but it sounds like there's a certain roar set up that will do it. For reference, it takes me (at pretty equivalent relevant stats) a handful of max 100 MB casts to do to redeemers pride what that single roar did.

Here's the only concern I have: it's impossible to get off a handful of roars (I don't think combos exist anymore) at full power without screwing up voice levels. Each roar lowers voice level after the first roar I will never get off another full power roar unless I wait 90 seconds or so for my voice to recover. In practice, when all else is functioning properly, it would seem that a Bard could just throw up RP and become roar-proof, since I'll never have the voice to be able to roar enough times at max power to bring it down.

Or am I completely misunderstanding how RP works?

Other than that concern, I completely agree. No one roar should be able to accomplish that.

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Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.

-GM Abasha

>>how exactly is this "activated"?
>>Could be wrong, but I think you use roar helm to activate it.

It's <scream> helm, not <roar>.

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~The Prydaen~

Redeemer's pride says it provides protection vs fear and will attacks. I thought all barbarian roars were fear attacks, I guess not.

Yup, as Vawn said they work off both, but voice level seems to be broken in test.

>>Redeemer's pride says it provides protection vs fear and will attacks. I thought all barbarian roars were fear attacks, I guess not.

Not 100% sure but I think all roars are supposed to be vs fear or will, so something seems to be broken on the roaring side of things.

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Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.

-GM Abasha

Due to the Holiday I've not had a chance to rewrite debilitation exp for Barbs. I'll also look at the chain-affecting.

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"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes

>> I think it's a little crazy that a roar mask can enable a Barbarian with lower stats in the contest to totally destroy a fully capped vs Fear/Will barrier with one roar :(

Not just a mask, that was paint + cyclone + mask. Not the ideal paint either, just a random one. Honestly, I think Cyclone does more for that than the mask does.

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IM: Dannyboy00001111

"Fool proof system do not take into account the ingenuity of fools, nor the power of numbers."

>>Which roar?

Roar Wail, the one that immobilizes.

~ Leilond
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h307/ss1shadow/Leilond_Progression.jpg

<<...a fully capped vs Fear/Will barrier...>>

<<We're thinking it's possible that Strike might be vs. Fortitude.>>

That wouldn't really matter...it would still be Fear vs. Fortitude, wouldn't it? Fear is on the attack side, so the barrier in question, assuming it works as described, would protect from Fear vs. Anything and Anything vs. Will. Presumably all roars would be Fear vs. Something, since that's sort of the whole premise behind roars.

Thanks,
-Life Sustainer Karthor

> I don't know of any FEAR barriers.

REPR.

> Is REPR like that?

Here's what Melete said when she released it:

> It is a non-cyclic spell that creates an ablative barrier which protects against fear attacks and in versus will contests.

>>Maybe roar helms need to be switched to reducing the voice cost for roars, instead of a bonus to effectiness?

I think bonus to effectiveness is fine, I believe the problem is that intimidation bonus is indeed uncapped, and there are half a dozen readily-available ways for Barbarians to bonus intimidation and very few ways to boost intimidation resistance, most of which are available only to Bards/Moon Mages.

Once voice level is instituted, I'd see where to go from there, durations may need to be fixed too, though I'm not sure if that's a product of roars in particular or the high-end successes of disablers still needing a downtweak.