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Have Roar Cloaks, Facemasks, Warpaint and all of that jazz been converted over to properly use the new fear contest mechanics?
Do spellcasters need to use a spell slot in order to use a roar cloak successfully, similar to how Barbs need to spend a slot for the facemasks/warpaint or whatever?
Also, is there a limit to how many times/how often one can use any of these items? Or is it pretty much an always-on bonus?
~ Leilond
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h307/ss1shadow/Leilond_Progression.jpg
BEVERAGEK
DIMINISHEDANGEL
Re: Fear Items
12/06/2012 07:50 AM CST
>>Have Roar Cloaks, Facemasks, Warpaint and all of that jazz been converted over to properly use the new fear contest mechanics?
Warpaint and roar helms appear to be functioning fine. I haven't pulled my roar cloak out of the vault yet, I assume it would also work fine since the intimidation boosters work well.
>>Do spellcasters need to use a spell slot in order to use a roar cloak successfully, similar to how Barbs need to spend a slot for the facemasks/warpaint or whatever?
A good question. I can still use warpaint and my roar helm without expending a slot, but I assume these feats simply haven't been implemented yet. If the boost to helms costs a slot, it would stand to reason that the mirror defensive item would cost a slot.
>>Also, is there a limit to how many times/how often one can use any of these items? Or is it pretty much an always-on bonus?
Roar helms have a roundtime upon activation, but no cooldown period. Given the impending ability cost to use them and the nerfs roars and debuffs in general have seen, I'm not sure a cooldown is entirely necessary, though I could see the logic if a cooldown was implemented. Warpaint has a strength level which degrades quickly over the course of ~1 hour and with each activation, so it does have a cooldown of a sort, in that you need to re-apply it (with a 20+ second RT I might add) after a couple uses.
Warpaint and roar helms appear to be functioning fine. I haven't pulled my roar cloak out of the vault yet, I assume it would also work fine since the intimidation boosters work well.
>>Do spellcasters need to use a spell slot in order to use a roar cloak successfully, similar to how Barbs need to spend a slot for the facemasks/warpaint or whatever?
A good question. I can still use warpaint and my roar helm without expending a slot, but I assume these feats simply haven't been implemented yet. If the boost to helms costs a slot, it would stand to reason that the mirror defensive item would cost a slot.
>>Also, is there a limit to how many times/how often one can use any of these items? Or is it pretty much an always-on bonus?
Roar helms have a roundtime upon activation, but no cooldown period. Given the impending ability cost to use them and the nerfs roars and debuffs in general have seen, I'm not sure a cooldown is entirely necessary, though I could see the logic if a cooldown was implemented. Warpaint has a strength level which degrades quickly over the course of ~1 hour and with each activation, so it does have a cooldown of a sort, in that you need to re-apply it (with a 20+ second RT I might add) after a couple uses.
VEE-REX
Re: Fear Items
12/06/2012 08:47 AM CST
Leilond: your friendly neighborhood Bard who checks in to make sure no other guild ability can challenge his great Bardic prowess.
;)
Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.
-GM Abasha
;)
Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.
-GM Abasha
BEVERAGEK
Re: Fear Items
12/06/2012 08:52 AM CST
Nah, just want to make sure my roar cloak works :3
~ Leilond
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h307/ss1shadow/Leilond_Progression.jpg
~ Leilond
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h307/ss1shadow/Leilond_Progression.jpg
VEE-REX
Re: Fear Items
12/06/2012 09:03 AM CST
For the first time in forever I have no idea how I want my stats to be. I'm actually thinking of dropping my charisma from 80 down to like 60 because of the duration nerf disablers have taken. Since to-hit has been separated from damage (and damage is LT's greatest weakness) I'm considering running at 90+ Str in 3.0.
I know charisma has other uses (mainly defense against certain spells) but I may have to sacrifice it. Roars intending to run off both voice levels and inner fire have me doubting I'll use them much, but of course I have to wait until certain debuffs are working correctly before deciding. I do hope we get a few days to test everything once 3.0 is ready to be released and most of the bugs are squashed.
Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.
-GM Abasha
I know charisma has other uses (mainly defense against certain spells) but I may have to sacrifice it. Roars intending to run off both voice levels and inner fire have me doubting I'll use them much, but of course I have to wait until certain debuffs are working correctly before deciding. I do hope we get a few days to test everything once 3.0 is ready to be released and most of the bugs are squashed.
Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.
-GM Abasha
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Fear Items
12/06/2012 09:26 AM CST
If they required a feat, I could see it falling under ritual tools.
That said, I disagree with the idea that barbarians/non-barbarians would necessarily need to use a feat to take advantage of what are essentially barbarian-themed magical devices. I'd rather have them run off the device skill.
When in doubt, http://elanthipedia.org/
That said, I disagree with the idea that barbarians/non-barbarians would necessarily need to use a feat to take advantage of what are essentially barbarian-themed magical devices. I'd rather have them run off the device skill.
When in doubt, http://elanthipedia.org/
VEE-REX
Re: Fear Items
12/06/2012 09:34 AM CST
Roar helms/masks, warpaint, and roar cloaks are non-magical in nature. So I don't see how it would be appropriate for them to run off a magical skill.
Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.
-GM Abasha
Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.
-GM Abasha
KROONERMANREVENGE
Re: Fear Items
12/06/2012 10:03 AM CST
>>Do spellcasters need to use a spell slot in order to use a roar cloak successfully, similar to how Barbs need to spend a slot for the facemasks/warpaint or whatever?
After a fashion? Foci require a slot to use universal ones, otherwise it's highly restricted. I could see burning a single slot for a generic 'fear booster' performance knowledge for all the items. It's a big blanket, and not every barb will want to max out fear.
Adding nothing to the conversation since 1834.
After a fashion? Foci require a slot to use universal ones, otherwise it's highly restricted. I could see burning a single slot for a generic 'fear booster' performance knowledge for all the items. It's a big blanket, and not every barb will want to max out fear.
Adding nothing to the conversation since 1834.
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Fear Items
12/06/2012 12:29 PM CST
>>Roar helms/masks, warpaint, and roar cloaks are non-magical in nature.
Eh, magic-magic, but not barbarian-magic. It's still a device that creates an effect. I would see it fall under Arcane Devices before any other skill out there.
When in doubt, http://elanthipedia.org/
Eh, magic-magic, but not barbarian-magic. It's still a device that creates an effect. I would see it fall under Arcane Devices before any other skill out there.
When in doubt, http://elanthipedia.org/
VEE-REX
Re: Fear Items
12/06/2012 01:21 PM CST
>>Eh, magic-magic, but not barbarian-magic. It's still a device that creates an effect. I would see it fall under Arcane Devices before any other skill out there.
Heh, I don't think you understand.
IG, those items are completely non-magical. They don't 'create' an effect at all. They are used as intimidation and are just as magical as using a rope to boost your climbing skill.
Putting those items under Arcane Devices opens up a whole can of worms with Barbarian Lore anyway, unless they want to change the name of the skill itself. I think Kodius has it set up well enough for now.
Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.
-GM Abasha
Heh, I don't think you understand.
IG, those items are completely non-magical. They don't 'create' an effect at all. They are used as intimidation and are just as magical as using a rope to boost your climbing skill.
Putting those items under Arcane Devices opens up a whole can of worms with Barbarian Lore anyway, unless they want to change the name of the skill itself. I think Kodius has it set up well enough for now.
Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.
-GM Abasha
DIMINISHEDANGEL
Re: Fear Items
12/06/2012 01:33 PM CST
>>Otherwise, our buffs do nothing more than your buffs, they have the same SOI cap. I fail to see how our weapon booster is more effective than your weapon booster in 3.0, unless your abilities are bugged.
That is my entire point, in effect. I have many problems with this SOI idea, or at least its current execution, this being one of them. I will use Paladins as a counter-example, because their situation is comparable.
Point A:
I like armor's design in 3.0 a lot. It's meaningful, there are clear advantages to lighter armor, and those perks work out very nice for Paladins. Even before your guild-only skill is coded, you are clearly the unmatched masters of armor. Meanwhile, on the weapon front, the offhand skill's status is in transition and whirlwind is inactive right now, so there's no telling if even that one lonely, sad perk will return in any meaningful form.
That leaves me with only boost strength to go by:
Paladin weapon buffs >= Barb weapon buffs
Bard weapon buffs >= Barb weapon buffs
Thief weapon buffs >= Barb weapon buffs
So where does the weapon mastery come in? That's my general point, I apologize if the construction of my argument directs attention to GvG instead of this central point. I simply don't know how else to frame it besides comparative to other skillsets or guilds. The specific forms in question seem weaksauce, even for introductory forms.
That is my entire point, in effect. I have many problems with this SOI idea, or at least its current execution, this being one of them. I will use Paladins as a counter-example, because their situation is comparable.
Point A:
| Armor Perks | Weapon Perks | |
| Min. Hindrance | Offhand Weapon Size | |
| Arm-Worn Shield | ||
| Mixing Penalty |
I like armor's design in 3.0 a lot. It's meaningful, there are clear advantages to lighter armor, and those perks work out very nice for Paladins. Even before your guild-only skill is coded, you are clearly the unmatched masters of armor. Meanwhile, on the weapon front, the offhand skill's status is in transition and whirlwind is inactive right now, so there's no telling if even that one lonely, sad perk will return in any meaningful form.
That leaves me with only boost strength to go by:
Paladin weapon buffs >= Barb weapon buffs
Bard weapon buffs >= Barb weapon buffs
Thief weapon buffs >= Barb weapon buffs
So where does the weapon mastery come in? That's my general point, I apologize if the construction of my argument directs attention to GvG instead of this central point. I simply don't know how else to frame it besides comparative to other skillsets or guilds. The specific forms in question seem weaksauce, even for introductory forms.
DIMINISHEDANGEL
Re: Fear Items
12/06/2012 01:53 PM CST
>>Eh, magic-magic, but not barbarian-magic. It's still a device that creates an effect. I would see it fall under Arcane Devices before any other skill out there.
I realize barbarians powering their stuff with the magic skillset is terribly fashionable right now, but a few points:
* Mages can't teach barbarians "primary magic." There's still a distinction there.
* There are plans to heavily penalize barbarians for knowledge of arcana, sorcery, and target magic, unless things have changed. Barbarians still won't be allowed to use magical boosters like CJs, and if they plan to enchant, they do it at severe cost to [xxx]. (Enchanting obviously hasn't been designed yet, so we have no specifics).
The second point is the most prurient, and I'm sure you can see the problem with forcing barbarians to take a skill penalty to use items that are made by a barbarian crafter. Despite the name change arcana still signifies only "magic" stuff, powering roar cloaks with arcana ranks would be like charging warpaint with mana.
I realize barbarians powering their stuff with the magic skillset is terribly fashionable right now, but a few points:
* Mages can't teach barbarians "primary magic." There's still a distinction there.
* There are plans to heavily penalize barbarians for knowledge of arcana, sorcery, and target magic, unless things have changed. Barbarians still won't be allowed to use magical boosters like CJs, and if they plan to enchant, they do it at severe cost to [xxx]. (Enchanting obviously hasn't been designed yet, so we have no specifics).
The second point is the most prurient, and I'm sure you can see the problem with forcing barbarians to take a skill penalty to use items that are made by a barbarian crafter. Despite the name change arcana still signifies only "magic" stuff, powering roar cloaks with arcana ranks would be like charging warpaint with mana.
GORTEOUS
Re: Fear Items
12/06/2012 04:24 PM CST
>> That leaves me with only boost strength to go by:
>> Paladin weapon buffs >= Barb weapon buffs
>> Bard weapon buffs >= Barb weapon buffs
>> Thief weapon buffs >= Barb weapon buffs
This. A thief with 900ish small blades + khri spar was able to OD me in a melee spar with 1146 small blades + dragon up. 99 agility 50-60 str/stam vs my 99 agi/stam 85 strength. He used a kertig telek? and I had that haralun katar from gnome quest.
Half the time dragon/eagle seem to not even work - I don't notice a significant difference in numbers of hits per kill in pvm vs not having them active.
IM: Dannyboy00001111
"Fool proof system do not take into account the ingenuity of fools, nor the power of numbers."
>> Paladin weapon buffs >= Barb weapon buffs
>> Bard weapon buffs >= Barb weapon buffs
>> Thief weapon buffs >= Barb weapon buffs
This. A thief with 900ish small blades + khri spar was able to OD me in a melee spar with 1146 small blades + dragon up. 99 agility 50-60 str/stam vs my 99 agi/stam 85 strength. He used a kertig telek? and I had that haralun katar from gnome quest.
Half the time dragon/eagle seem to not even work - I don't notice a significant difference in numbers of hits per kill in pvm vs not having them active.
IM: Dannyboy00001111
"Fool proof system do not take into account the ingenuity of fools, nor the power of numbers."
DR-KODIUS
Re: Fear Items
12/06/2012 09:13 PM CST
>>Have Roar Cloaks, Facemasks, Warpaint and all of that jazz been converted over to properly use the new fear contest mechanics?
I believe so.
>>Do spellcasters need to use a spell slot in order to use a roar cloak successfully, similar to how Barbs need to spend a slot for the facemasks/warpaint or whatever?
Barbarians do not need to spend slots to use these. Spellcasters do not need to use a spell slot to use these.
>>Also, is there a limit to how many times/how often one can use any of these items? Or is it pretty much an always-on bonus?
Roar masks and cloaks have unlimited uses. Warpaint is limited in use (but only Barbarians can use it anyways).
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
I believe so.
>>Do spellcasters need to use a spell slot in order to use a roar cloak successfully, similar to how Barbs need to spend a slot for the facemasks/warpaint or whatever?
Barbarians do not need to spend slots to use these. Spellcasters do not need to use a spell slot to use these.
>>Also, is there a limit to how many times/how often one can use any of these items? Or is it pretty much an always-on bonus?
Roar masks and cloaks have unlimited uses. Warpaint is limited in use (but only Barbarians can use it anyways).
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
DR-KODIUS
Re: Fear Items
12/06/2012 09:23 PM CST
>>because of the duration nerf disablers have taken
Most Barbarian debuffs should last longer than before... 30 seconds on an immobilize is kind of retardly OP, no?
>>and inner fire
The inner fire usage is pathetically small. It is really only intended to prevent roaring when you are tapped out.
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
Most Barbarian debuffs should last longer than before... 30 seconds on an immobilize is kind of retardly OP, no?
>>and inner fire
The inner fire usage is pathetically small. It is really only intended to prevent roaring when you are tapped out.
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
VAWN
Re: Fear Items
12/06/2012 10:11 PM CST
>>The inner fire usage is pathetically small. It is really only intended to prevent roaring when you are tapped out.
That's how I've found it to be. It has been a non-issue for me, even for my 12th circle tester barb (which was 4th circle when 3.0 dropped in plat. Non-issue then too). Unless things are drastically different in Test than they are in Plat.
~The Prydaen~
That's how I've found it to be. It has been a non-issue for me, even for my 12th circle tester barb (which was 4th circle when 3.0 dropped in plat. Non-issue then too). Unless things are drastically different in Test than they are in Plat.
~The Prydaen~
BEVERAGEK
Re: Fear Items
12/07/2012 02:17 AM CST
30 seconds on an immobilize + The inner fire usage is pathetically small...
Makes for sad Leilond's when fighting Barbarians :(
~ Leilond
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h307/ss1shadow/Leilond_Progression.jpg
Makes for sad Leilond's when fighting Barbarians :(
~ Leilond
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h307/ss1shadow/Leilond_Progression.jpg
JARAGONA
Re: Fear Items
12/07/2012 07:06 AM CST
>>Makes for sad Leilond's when fighting Barbarians :(
Good thing you'll supposedly be hammering away in the forge and sitting around training only 5 non-combat skills as a venerable ex-warrior, correct?
Squanto: think they'll make it so we can swim to the islands?
Codiax: probably not but who knows
Squanto: maybe moonwalk faster on the iceroad with enough reflex, athletics & xibar up?
Codiax: lol yeah totally. have to sing ice ice baby to make it work
Good thing you'll supposedly be hammering away in the forge and sitting around training only 5 non-combat skills as a venerable ex-warrior, correct?
Squanto: think they'll make it so we can swim to the islands?
Codiax: probably not but who knows
Squanto: maybe moonwalk faster on the iceroad with enough reflex, athletics & xibar up?
Codiax: lol yeah totally. have to sing ice ice baby to make it work
BUUWL
Re: Fear Items
12/07/2012 10:26 AM CST
<<<30 seconds on an immobilize + The inner fire usage is pathetically small...
Makes for sad Leilond's when fighting >>
You have a problem with your ridiculous stun you were hiting me with bard?
The technique of the Banshee's Wail flows fluidly through your mind an instant before you unleash its power through a roar of fatal intent.
Raesh appears to be frozen with fear!
Roundtime: 2 sec.
- Buuwl
Makes for sad Leilond's when fighting >>
You have a problem with your ridiculous stun you were hiting me with bard?
The technique of the Banshee's Wail flows fluidly through your mind an instant before you unleash its power through a roar of fatal intent.
Raesh appears to be frozen with fear!
Roundtime: 2 sec.
- Buuwl
BUUWL
Re: Fear Items
12/07/2012 10:30 AM CST
Makes for sad Leilond's when fighting barbarians>>>
Also fighting the vicious awesome barbarian should make anyone sad, army of one.
The technique of the Banshee's Wail flows fluidly through your mind an instant before you unleash its power through a roar of fatal intent.
Raesh appears to be frozen with fear!
Roundtime: 2 sec.
- Buuwl
BEVERAGEK
Re: Fear Items
12/07/2012 11:10 AM CST
>>You have a problem with your ridiculous stun you were hiting me with bard?
I do actually -- I made a thread requesting that all stunlocks(giving the Bard stun spell specifically as an example) should receive diminishing returns, a few days ago. It's common knowledge to the GMs to my knowledge, and I believe it's something they're working towards fixing.
I'm just poking fun really, so please don't take it personally :P
~ Leilond
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h307/ss1shadow/Leilond_Progression.jpg
I do actually -- I made a thread requesting that all stunlocks(giving the Bard stun spell specifically as an example) should receive diminishing returns, a few days ago. It's common knowledge to the GMs to my knowledge, and I believe it's something they're working towards fixing.
I'm just poking fun really, so please don't take it personally :P
~ Leilond
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h307/ss1shadow/Leilond_Progression.jpg
PENDUS
Re: Fear Items
12/07/2012 04:19 PM CST
>>Makes for sad Leilond's when fighting Barbarians :(<<
We tested this. Without your buff I hit you, with your buff I failed miserably. So no complaints!
Your body tightens as you draw your arms together in a sinuous, flowing motion, mimicking the form you were trained to adopt for this roar of warning.
Kodius fled to the west in terror!
Roundtime: 2 sec.
We tested this. Without your buff I hit you, with your buff I failed miserably. So no complaints!
Your body tightens as you draw your arms together in a sinuous, flowing motion, mimicking the form you were trained to adopt for this roar of warning.
Kodius fled to the west in terror!
Roundtime: 2 sec.
ZUBBA
Re: Fear Items
12/07/2012 04:58 PM CST
<<I'm just poking fun really, so please don't take it personally :P>>
Someone should compile all the passive aggressive nerf requests you've posted in other guilds folders; now that would be funny.
Someone should compile all the passive aggressive nerf requests you've posted in other guilds folders; now that would be funny.
BEVERAGEK
Re: Fear Items
12/07/2012 05:56 PM CST
>>nerf requests you've posted in other guilds folders
I'm thinking you mean nerf requests I've posted in general, because I have brought to light certain issues we've found for several things including things for the Bard guild, either via forums, bug database or otherwise.
This is, after all, the Testing instance. We're supposed to be bringing up potential issues we find in the game for the greater good of game balance.
Or, are you saying I shouldn't bring to attention certain things which I perceive to be 'OverPowered' or not healthy for game balance? They should all just get rolled into the game without anyone saying anything, so you can bbqsaucepwn people?
~ Leilond
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h307/ss1shadow/Leilond_Progression.jpg
I'm thinking you mean nerf requests I've posted in general, because I have brought to light certain issues we've found for several things including things for the Bard guild, either via forums, bug database or otherwise.
This is, after all, the Testing instance. We're supposed to be bringing up potential issues we find in the game for the greater good of game balance.
Or, are you saying I shouldn't bring to attention certain things which I perceive to be 'OverPowered' or not healthy for game balance? They should all just get rolled into the game without anyone saying anything, so you can bbqsaucepwn people?
~ Leilond
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h307/ss1shadow/Leilond_Progression.jpg
ZUBBA
Re: Fear Items
12/07/2012 06:20 PM CST
<<Or, are you saying I shouldn't bring to attention certain things which I perceive to be 'OverPowered' or not healthy for game balance? They should all just get rolled into the game without anyone saying anything, so you can bbqsaucepwn people?>>
Anyone can search through the various guild folders with your handle and see what you've posted. Curiously a search through non-bard folders yields a ton of passive-aggressive calls for one ability or another to be weakened. The same search in the Bard section yields calls for assurances that abilities will remain the same, augmentations to abilities, or points out bugs where fixes would not be detrimental to you.
I get it. The grass is always greener/you want Bards to rock. Your constant "analysis" and "commentary" in guilds you don't play gets pretty tiresome though. Attempting to conceal your intention with comments like "I just thought it was funny", and defending yourself with "I'm doing this for the good of the game, because I hate OP" is simply disingenuous.
Anyone can search through the various guild folders with your handle and see what you've posted. Curiously a search through non-bard folders yields a ton of passive-aggressive calls for one ability or another to be weakened. The same search in the Bard section yields calls for assurances that abilities will remain the same, augmentations to abilities, or points out bugs where fixes would not be detrimental to you.
I get it. The grass is always greener/you want Bards to rock. Your constant "analysis" and "commentary" in guilds you don't play gets pretty tiresome though. Attempting to conceal your intention with comments like "I just thought it was funny", and defending yourself with "I'm doing this for the good of the game, because I hate OP" is simply disingenuous.
SHADOWCHIEF3
Re: Fear Items
12/07/2012 06:25 PM CST
30 seconds on an immobilize would be pretty OP indeed, especially since the immobilization spell I use can be contested by a magical barrier to where a barbs only can be reduced by a roar cloak? Or did this change and something else besides stats can contest roars now?
BEVERAGEK
Re: Fear Items
12/07/2012 06:56 PM CST
I've nerfed Bard things in the bug database, from req bugs, to spells, to weapon skills that I train, to nerfing the RPA toggle, to actually helping to fix other guild spells which were broken/underpowered.
But whatever :P
If you feel a spell and/or ability of the Bard guild isn't quite balanced that I haven't already commented on, please feel free to post about it in the Bard forums.
<3
~ Leilond
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h307/ss1shadow/Leilond_Progression.jpg
But whatever :P
If you feel a spell and/or ability of the Bard guild isn't quite balanced that I haven't already commented on, please feel free to post about it in the Bard forums.
<3
~ Leilond
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h307/ss1shadow/Leilond_Progression.jpg
VEE-REX
Re: Fear Items
12/07/2012 07:24 PM CST
>>30 seconds on an immobilize would be pretty OP indeed, especially since the immobilization spell I use can be contested by a magical barrier to where a barbs only can be reduced by a roar cloak?
From my testing against Vymos (someone I was barely able to roar even after boosting charisma to 90), I came nowhere near close to the 30 seconds of immobilization. I imagine if I can immobilize someone for 30 seconds I can probably kill them in less than half that.
In other words, 30 seconds seems to be the cap and if a Barb can hit you for that long you got more important things to worry about.
Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.
-GM Abasha
From my testing against Vymos (someone I was barely able to roar even after boosting charisma to 90), I came nowhere near close to the 30 seconds of immobilization. I imagine if I can immobilize someone for 30 seconds I can probably kill them in less than half that.
In other words, 30 seconds seems to be the cap and if a Barb can hit you for that long you got more important things to worry about.
Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.
-GM Abasha
VEE-REX
Re: Fear Items
12/07/2012 07:27 PM CST
To add to my previous post, there are 'intimidation-resisting' abilities. Thieves and Bards have them, not sure which other guilds do. I think it would be cool if Necros had something like that too.
Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.
-GM Abasha
Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.
-GM Abasha
GREIFENTHAL
Re: Fear Items
12/07/2012 09:22 PM CST
I would much much rather have more zerk power that allows us to shrug off damage, disablers, and stuns in order to get in close and do damage. To me this is a better barbarian way than just getting our own disablers.
GORTEOUS
Re: IF
12/07/2012 10:40 PM CST
>> I would much much rather have more zerk power that allows us to shrug off damage, disablers, and stuns in order to get in close and do damage. To me this is a better barbarian way than just getting our own disablers.
They really need to fix inner fire first - with 812 IF I can't maintain anything more than 1 basic meditation and a basic+expert form outside of combat. That gives me enough for basic defense buffing(Contemplation + Piranha + Turtle) with no offense or stat bonuses whatsoever. These defense boosts are so amazing that a WM with 1050 TM buffed can blow my vitality down to 70% with that shard spell at high mana(1051 shield, 1111 evasion 85 strength 99 stamina 99 reflex) in 1 cast. Maybe if I were able to stack some other boosters onto this very basic package, things might be better.
Anyways, if dragon or eagle is thrown into the mix(which don't even work AFAICT), I'm over the hill. Adding insult to this is the fact that fire regen stops at 30%, so after starting those abilities IF level is at 15-20% which gives maybe 10-15 minutes of play before the well runs dry and all forms drop, not at all like mana depletion since it actually regens at a normal rate and doesn't stop at 30%. Building fire up beforehand is a laugh considering there is NO regen until you hit 30% meaning every ability active is burning through fire like there's nothin left to lose.
I'd rather see IF and core guild abilities fixed before moving onto abilities that we can't even use due to ridiculous mechanics.
Oh, and I agree about disablers - there should be dimishing returns on all of them across the boards. When Leilond and I tested this, I was able to keep him immobilized almost 100% of the time while simultaniously tearing him to shreds with my blade. Duration was maybe 15-20 seconds but it was a constant effect. I stacked paint + mask + cyclone and was just barely able to roar him, but it was enough. He used his bard resistance thingie too.
IM: Dannyboy00001111
"Fool proof system do not take into account the ingenuity of fools, nor the power of numbers."
They really need to fix inner fire first - with 812 IF I can't maintain anything more than 1 basic meditation and a basic+expert form outside of combat. That gives me enough for basic defense buffing(Contemplation + Piranha + Turtle) with no offense or stat bonuses whatsoever. These defense boosts are so amazing that a WM with 1050 TM buffed can blow my vitality down to 70% with that shard spell at high mana(1051 shield, 1111 evasion 85 strength 99 stamina 99 reflex) in 1 cast. Maybe if I were able to stack some other boosters onto this very basic package, things might be better.
Anyways, if dragon or eagle is thrown into the mix(which don't even work AFAICT), I'm over the hill. Adding insult to this is the fact that fire regen stops at 30%, so after starting those abilities IF level is at 15-20% which gives maybe 10-15 minutes of play before the well runs dry and all forms drop, not at all like mana depletion since it actually regens at a normal rate and doesn't stop at 30%. Building fire up beforehand is a laugh considering there is NO regen until you hit 30% meaning every ability active is burning through fire like there's nothin left to lose.
I'd rather see IF and core guild abilities fixed before moving onto abilities that we can't even use due to ridiculous mechanics.
Oh, and I agree about disablers - there should be dimishing returns on all of them across the boards. When Leilond and I tested this, I was able to keep him immobilized almost 100% of the time while simultaniously tearing him to shreds with my blade. Duration was maybe 15-20 seconds but it was a constant effect. I stacked paint + mask + cyclone and was just barely able to roar him, but it was enough. He used his bard resistance thingie too.
IM: Dannyboy00001111
"Fool proof system do not take into account the ingenuity of fools, nor the power of numbers."
BUUWL
Re: IF
12/07/2012 10:55 PM CST
Gort why do you have 812 in IF? I can't keep seeing this without being angry. I have 700.
The technique of the Banshee's Wail flows fluidly through your mind an instant before you unleash its power through a roar of fatal intent.
Raesh appears to be frozen with fear!
Roundtime: 2 sec.
- Buuwl
The technique of the Banshee's Wail flows fluidly through your mind an instant before you unleash its power through a roar of fatal intent.
Raesh appears to be frozen with fear!
Roundtime: 2 sec.
- Buuwl
MARTINCOTY77
Re: IF
12/08/2012 12:07 AM CST
<<Gort why do you have 812 in IF? I can't keep seeing this without being angry. I have 700.
because it is based on unfair metrics (like circle) and not time.
Codiax.
Forged Weapons:
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Codiax#Codiax-Forged-Weapons
because it is based on unfair metrics (like circle) and not time.
Codiax.
Forged Weapons:
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Codiax#Codiax-Forged-Weapons
KROONERMANREVENGE
Re: IF
12/08/2012 10:11 AM CST
>because it is based on unfair metrics (like circle) and not time.
I have a hard time seeing how 'time' is a fair metric. I've been around since the 90's. Should my circle 10 barb get more IF ranks than a 100+ barb who was made 2 years ago, because he's older?
Adding nothing to the conversation since 1834.
I have a hard time seeing how 'time' is a fair metric. I've been around since the 90's. Should my circle 10 barb get more IF ranks than a 100+ barb who was made 2 years ago, because he's older?
Adding nothing to the conversation since 1834.
MARTINCOTY77
Re: IF
12/08/2012 10:29 AM CST
>>I have a hard time seeing how 'time' is a fair metric. I've been around since the 90's. Should my circle 10 barb get more IF ranks than a 100+ barb who was made 2 years ago, because he's older?
don't play dumb.
Codiax.
Forged Weapons:
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Codiax#Codiax-Forged-Weapons'
don't play dumb.
Codiax.
Forged Weapons:
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Codiax#Codiax-Forged-Weapons'
TEVESHSZAT
Re: IF
12/08/2012 12:05 PM CST
>>don't play dumb.
So let's play smart.
Who should have more IF: A barbarian that went from 1-100 from 1998-2004, or a barbarian that went from 1-100 from 2011-2012?
While grandfathering based on circle is very blunt and misses a lot of character building nuance, time is an even wonkier metric.
There's no good way to grandfather skills based on the metrics GMs have available, so the least worst way is what was picked.
When in doubt, http://elanthipedia.org/
So let's play smart.
Who should have more IF: A barbarian that went from 1-100 from 1998-2004, or a barbarian that went from 1-100 from 2011-2012?
While grandfathering based on circle is very blunt and misses a lot of character building nuance, time is an even wonkier metric.
There's no good way to grandfather skills based on the metrics GMs have available, so the least worst way is what was picked.
When in doubt, http://elanthipedia.org/
DR-KODIUS
Re: IF
12/08/2012 12:47 PM CST
There was no perfect answer for grandfathering. We did our best, now please try to move onto something more constructive.
>>with 812 IF I can't maintain anything more than 1 basic meditation and a basic+expert form outside of combat
You appear to be doing something wrong. With 620 IF I was able to:
Startup Meditations Seek, Bastion and Contemplation. Wait 30 seconds for my IF to jump back up to 15%.
Startup Forms Bear, Dragon. After a few minutes my IF was back up to 20%.
Startup Berserk Cyclone.
With this I was able to not run out of IF while out of combat. 6 strong abilities, all started with no reliance upon mana or harnessing, cambrinth or other junk.
That being said, we do have a few ideas for feats that will help your IF usage. Once choosing a Path is live, abilities from that Path will consume less IF. There will also likely be a maneuver that increases the IF min regen limit to 50%. Maneuvers to reduce the restrictions on meditation are also being discussed.
>>Anyways, if dragon or eagle is thrown into the mix(which don't even work AFAICT),
They work, the buff just isn't as useful for HLC. As a HLC you are underhunting by 30%, and a to-hit buff is not going to do much. Once higher level/boss type critters are available they'll matter again.
>>I would much much rather have more zerk power that allows us to shrug off damage, disablers, and stuns in order to get in close and do damage.
You do have a berserk that allows you to shrug off stun, immobilization, knockdown and other detrimental effects. You can choose to stack this with whatever other abilities you want.
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
>>with 812 IF I can't maintain anything more than 1 basic meditation and a basic+expert form outside of combat
You appear to be doing something wrong. With 620 IF I was able to:
Startup Meditations Seek, Bastion and Contemplation. Wait 30 seconds for my IF to jump back up to 15%.
Startup Forms Bear, Dragon. After a few minutes my IF was back up to 20%.
Startup Berserk Cyclone.
With this I was able to not run out of IF while out of combat. 6 strong abilities, all started with no reliance upon mana or harnessing, cambrinth or other junk.
That being said, we do have a few ideas for feats that will help your IF usage. Once choosing a Path is live, abilities from that Path will consume less IF. There will also likely be a maneuver that increases the IF min regen limit to 50%. Maneuvers to reduce the restrictions on meditation are also being discussed.
>>Anyways, if dragon or eagle is thrown into the mix(which don't even work AFAICT),
They work, the buff just isn't as useful for HLC. As a HLC you are underhunting by 30%, and a to-hit buff is not going to do much. Once higher level/boss type critters are available they'll matter again.
>>I would much much rather have more zerk power that allows us to shrug off damage, disablers, and stuns in order to get in close and do damage.
You do have a berserk that allows you to shrug off stun, immobilization, knockdown and other detrimental effects. You can choose to stack this with whatever other abilities you want.
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
REWYN
Re: Fear Items
12/08/2012 12:52 PM CST
>>I would much much rather have more zerk power that allows us to shrug off damage, disablers, and stuns in order to get in close and do damage. To me this is a better barbarian way than just getting our own disablers.
Not a GvG argument, but this sounds alot like Protect Self (Paladin 100th ability, has a lengthy cooldown).
Not a GvG argument, but this sounds alot like Protect Self (Paladin 100th ability, has a lengthy cooldown).
EDERICK
Re: Fear Items
12/08/2012 12:56 PM CST
Protect self also seems to be amazingly broken and just flat out doesn't work most times i've tried to use it, prime and in test.
MARTINCOTY77
Re: IF
12/08/2012 12:57 PM CST
>>So let's play smart.
>>Who should have more IF: A barbarian that went from 1-100 from 1998-2004, or a barbarian that went from 1-100 from 2011-2012?
That's not very smart. You wouldnt be able to tell anything from that because there is too many variables.
It would be fairly easy to judge at least a minimum amount of time spent in combat by just glancing at someone skills.
- First disregard the old experience model because we just have to use what we have in the present.
- Second, determine what the maximum number of weapon skills you can train at one time in the best hunting area. Gorteous would be a good person to ask. If that number (X) doesnt equal the total number of weapons trainable (it doesnt) that would mean someone with over X weapon skills at Y level, atleast spent 2x the amount of time hunting than it would take to get 1 skill to level Y. If those extra skills were less than Y then obviously it would be less than 2x.
- Third, you wouldnt double the IF obviously because ranks slow down as you go up, but double bits in your grandfatered skills would be atleast minimally appropriate.
That would be an easy way to figure out the bare minimum time someone spent. Why should someone that spent more time get less - because that is the way it plays out. Even if they would throw a bone and do what I said above, because of the way rank bits increase exponentially those of us that did hold ourselves back by training all or alot of weapons would probably come out with less. Not like it would rocket people to incredible heights.
Codiax.
Forged Weapons:
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Codiax#Codiax-Forged-Weapons
>>Who should have more IF: A barbarian that went from 1-100 from 1998-2004, or a barbarian that went from 1-100 from 2011-2012?
That's not very smart. You wouldnt be able to tell anything from that because there is too many variables.
It would be fairly easy to judge at least a minimum amount of time spent in combat by just glancing at someone skills.
- First disregard the old experience model because we just have to use what we have in the present.
- Second, determine what the maximum number of weapon skills you can train at one time in the best hunting area. Gorteous would be a good person to ask. If that number (X) doesnt equal the total number of weapons trainable (it doesnt) that would mean someone with over X weapon skills at Y level, atleast spent 2x the amount of time hunting than it would take to get 1 skill to level Y. If those extra skills were less than Y then obviously it would be less than 2x.
- Third, you wouldnt double the IF obviously because ranks slow down as you go up, but double bits in your grandfatered skills would be atleast minimally appropriate.
That would be an easy way to figure out the bare minimum time someone spent. Why should someone that spent more time get less - because that is the way it plays out. Even if they would throw a bone and do what I said above, because of the way rank bits increase exponentially those of us that did hold ourselves back by training all or alot of weapons would probably come out with less. Not like it would rocket people to incredible heights.
Codiax.
Forged Weapons:
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Codiax#Codiax-Forged-Weapons
