I'm unable to mind lock Warding, can get it to about 17/34 putting up every anti-magic ability, but that's it. I think debilitation learning is messed up for Barbs right now (at least at higher levels).
I did some testing today, and noticed that Eagle form doesn't seem to do anything for thrown weapons. I didn't do a whole LOT of Eagle testing but I did wait 5'ish minutes before attacking many times with it and still didn't notice any difference from when I was throwing without it up.
I looked up the Wildfire berserk and when I typed 'info' it didn't give a bonus to strength like it's supposed to do, just agility.
I tried different stat setups and they don't seem to have a big impact on training. The difference between 95 reflex and 14 reflex wasn't even really noticable while I was hunting in assassins. Likewise, I didn't notice a difference between 50 strength and 117 strength while attacking. Those are the only two stats I really tested but they really aren't doing anything for hunting.
Is there any way we can get the exact amount of reflex Monkey form boosts when it's capped? It has 5 pre-reqs and only boosts reflex... and while I'm glad to have a reflex boost, it still seems like it could do more. Trying to manage Inner Fire is gonna make me 10x more practical, and I suppose I don't really see myself using something that only boosts one stat. However, it would be nice if Monkey form also made it hard for people to target/aim at us, or something along the lines of how celpeze reduce the bonus gained from aiming. That would be VERY nice. :D
Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.
-GM Abasha
VEE-REX
ZUBBA
Re: General Testing
12/05/2012 03:02 AM CST
<<I did some testing today, and noticed that Eagle form doesn't seem to do anything for thrown weapons. I didn't do a whole LOT of Eagle testing but I did wait 5'ish minutes before attacking many times with it and still didn't notice any difference from when I was throwing without it up.>>
It's not just thrown. I commented on how small a difference eagle seemed to make for me over in plat, and Kodius replied that eagle (and dragon) offered mostly a "to hit" bonus rather than a damage bonus, so if you're hunting something your skill level is pretty much maxing out on the forms won't offer much of a visible bonus at all.
It's not just thrown. I commented on how small a difference eagle seemed to make for me over in plat, and Kodius replied that eagle (and dragon) offered mostly a "to hit" bonus rather than a damage bonus, so if you're hunting something your skill level is pretty much maxing out on the forms won't offer much of a visible bonus at all.
VEE-REX
Re: General Testing
12/05/2012 03:06 AM CST
>>It's not just thrown. I commented on how small a difference eagle seemed to make for me over in plat, and Kodius replied that eagle (and dragon) offered mostly a "to hit" bonus rather than a damage bonus, so if you're hunting something your skill level is pretty much maxing out on the forms won't offer much of a visible bonus at all.
Oh ok, cool. Thanks.
Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.
-GM Abasha
Oh ok, cool. Thanks.
Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.
-GM Abasha
KROONERMANREVENGE
Re: General Testing
12/05/2012 07:12 AM CST
I want to say that Debil training is across the board bjorked right now, isn't it? I don't think it's a specific barb thing, though it could still be.
Adding nothing to the conversation since 1834.
Adding nothing to the conversation since 1834.
GORTEOUS
Re: General Testing
12/05/2012 12:10 PM CST
>>It's not just thrown. I commented on how small a difference eagle seemed to make for me over in plat, and Kodius replied that eagle (and dragon) offered mostly a "to hit" bonus rather than a damage bonus, so if you're hunting something your skill level is pretty much maxing out on the forms won't offer much of a visible bonus at all.
It doesn't seem to really work at all - I tested blades with Leilond and I could barely hit him with raw ranks - vs raw defense. Put eagle up and even after 15-20 throws I could still barely hit him(right about the same level of hit/miss). There is definitely something wrong with eagle because he put his thrown booster up and there was a very stark difference between the performances - from barely hitting up to good/solid hits.
This is with 99 agi and 86 strength.
IM: Dannyboy00001111
"Fool proof system do not take into account the ingenuity of fools, nor the power of numbers."
It doesn't seem to really work at all - I tested blades with Leilond and I could barely hit him with raw ranks - vs raw defense. Put eagle up and even after 15-20 throws I could still barely hit him(right about the same level of hit/miss). There is definitely something wrong with eagle because he put his thrown booster up and there was a very stark difference between the performances - from barely hitting up to good/solid hits.
This is with 99 agi and 86 strength.
IM: Dannyboy00001111
"Fool proof system do not take into account the ingenuity of fools, nor the power of numbers."
DR-KODIUS
Re: General Testing
12/05/2012 07:14 PM CST
I may change how Eagle bonuses ranged skills because of how difficult it is to bonus thrown weapons.
Wildfire will be changed to give a Ranged damage boost as well, and will your goto ability for increasing damage across the board.
Debilitation EXP is next on my list to improve.
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
Wildfire will be changed to give a Ranged damage boost as well, and will your goto ability for increasing damage across the board.
Debilitation EXP is next on my list to improve.
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
DIMINISHEDANGEL
Re: General Testing
12/06/2012 12:33 AM CST
>>I may change how Eagle bonuses ranged skills because of how difficult it is to bonus thrown weapons.
>>Wildfire will be changed to give a Ranged damage boost as well, and will your goto ability for increasing damage across the board.
Kodius -
I am concerned not just with Eagle but Dragon as well. I feel like these should be among the premier weapon boosters in the game, the barbaric bread and butter. In a world where inner fire stuff is now determined by tertiary ranks, weapon boosters and weapon feats and weapon stuff should be the barbaric forte, and I find myself rather underwhelmed with their power in relation to old Cobra Dance and Eagle Dance.
I realize the comparison's not 1:1. Damage and to-hit are separate now, combat takes much longer in general, and more important we can stack multiple bonuses, whereas in 2.0 we could not enjoy Cobra's melee boost while also using a defense booster or a couple berserks.
Still, even stacking Dragon, Bear, and Tsunami, I don't feel it's as powerful as a host of other offensive boosters, among them Khri Spar, Harmony, Or Rutilor's Edge/Heroic Strength/Righteous Wrath.
>>Wildfire will be changed to give a Ranged damage boost as well, and will your goto ability for increasing damage across the board.
Kodius -
I am concerned not just with Eagle but Dragon as well. I feel like these should be among the premier weapon boosters in the game, the barbaric bread and butter. In a world where inner fire stuff is now determined by tertiary ranks, weapon boosters and weapon feats and weapon stuff should be the barbaric forte, and I find myself rather underwhelmed with their power in relation to old Cobra Dance and Eagle Dance.
I realize the comparison's not 1:1. Damage and to-hit are separate now, combat takes much longer in general, and more important we can stack multiple bonuses, whereas in 2.0 we could not enjoy Cobra's melee boost while also using a defense booster or a couple berserks.
Still, even stacking Dragon, Bear, and Tsunami, I don't feel it's as powerful as a host of other offensive boosters, among them Khri Spar, Harmony, Or Rutilor's Edge/Heroic Strength/Righteous Wrath.
REWYN
Re: General Testing
12/06/2012 02:05 AM CST
Few things.
RuE is not a premier damage buff I think you think it is. Its not bad, but its main benefit in 2.0 was effecting balance which caused damage increases due to accuracy mulitpliers. This is by and large gone in 3.0. Its ok in 3.0, but not the bee's knees i think you think it is, until more tests on suitability can prove what its effects are.
HeS is a standard strength booster, it works no better than any other for a guild with strength as an SOI, and it has an INSANELY low duration. I can throw my entire mana pool at the spell for an 8 minute duration along with cambrinth. By comparison spells with half the mana last upwards of a half hour. I dont think ANY paladin can use this effectively while hunting without tanking their entire mana pool over time. It basically takes the mana of 3 buffs to power this one. By comparison most other spell stat boosters last about twice as long.
Wrath is a basic weapon skill boost, and thats it. No damage boost. It does not boost weapons any better than a barb ability would.
I cant comment on Khri Spar cause its mostly 2.0 logic.
I'm just curious where your power comparisons are being drawn from?
RuE is not a premier damage buff I think you think it is. Its not bad, but its main benefit in 2.0 was effecting balance which caused damage increases due to accuracy mulitpliers. This is by and large gone in 3.0. Its ok in 3.0, but not the bee's knees i think you think it is, until more tests on suitability can prove what its effects are.
HeS is a standard strength booster, it works no better than any other for a guild with strength as an SOI, and it has an INSANELY low duration. I can throw my entire mana pool at the spell for an 8 minute duration along with cambrinth. By comparison spells with half the mana last upwards of a half hour. I dont think ANY paladin can use this effectively while hunting without tanking their entire mana pool over time. It basically takes the mana of 3 buffs to power this one. By comparison most other spell stat boosters last about twice as long.
Wrath is a basic weapon skill boost, and thats it. No damage boost. It does not boost weapons any better than a barb ability would.
I cant comment on Khri Spar cause its mostly 2.0 logic.
I'm just curious where your power comparisons are being drawn from?
DIMINISHEDANGEL
Re: General Testing
12/06/2012 07:26 AM CST
>>RuE is not a premier damage buff I think you think it is.
>>HeS is a standard strength booster,
>>Wrath is a basic weapon skill boost, and thats it.
I know the functions of all these spells, friend. I didn't call any single one of them "premier" abilities, just offensive abilities that meet or exceed a barbarian's ability to boost his or her weapon-based offensive output with less trouble. RuE and HeS are battle spells; a typical Paladin could keep them going without any trouble.
By comparison, I am not seeing any appreciable difference in stopping power with both Eagle and Bear. Wildfire is such an appreciable booster, but berserks are short in duration and very inner-fire intensive. Chaining them together ad infinitum is very difficult.
>>I'm just curious where your power comparisons are being drawn from.
Test instance, PvE and PvP.
>>HeS is a standard strength booster,
>>Wrath is a basic weapon skill boost, and thats it.
I know the functions of all these spells, friend. I didn't call any single one of them "premier" abilities, just offensive abilities that meet or exceed a barbarian's ability to boost his or her weapon-based offensive output with less trouble. RuE and HeS are battle spells; a typical Paladin could keep them going without any trouble.
By comparison, I am not seeing any appreciable difference in stopping power with both Eagle and Bear. Wildfire is such an appreciable booster, but berserks are short in duration and very inner-fire intensive. Chaining them together ad infinitum is very difficult.
>>I'm just curious where your power comparisons are being drawn from.
Test instance, PvE and PvP.
REWYN
Re: General Testing
12/06/2012 11:35 AM CST
I've talked to paladins over 100th circle that do not even bother keeping HeS going. I'm not sure you realize how short the duration of this spells is, even with a significant mana dump into them.
Otherwise, our buffs do nothing more than your buffs, they have the same SOI cap. I fail to see how our weapon booster is more effective than your weapon booster in 3.0, unless your abilities are bugged.
Otherwise, our buffs do nothing more than your buffs, they have the same SOI cap. I fail to see how our weapon booster is more effective than your weapon booster in 3.0, unless your abilities are bugged.
GORTEOUS
Re: General Testing
12/06/2012 12:32 PM CST
>> I am concerned not just with Eagle but Dragon as well. I feel like these should be among the premier weapon boosters in the game, the barbaric bread and butter. In a world where inner fire stuff is now determined by tertiary ranks, weapon boosters and weapon feats and weapon stuff should be the barbaric forte, and I find myself rather underwhelmed with their power in relation to old Cobra Dance and Eagle Dance.
Agreed. Being totally outpaced in weapon damage by weapon secondaries with far less ranks is blowing my mind.
IM: Dannyboy00001111
"Fool proof system do not take into account the ingenuity of fools, nor the power of numbers."
Agreed. Being totally outpaced in weapon damage by weapon secondaries with far less ranks is blowing my mind.
IM: Dannyboy00001111
"Fool proof system do not take into account the ingenuity of fools, nor the power of numbers."
DR-KODIUS
Re: General Testing
12/06/2012 09:11 PM CST
>>I feel like these should be among the premier weapon boosters in the game
There is no such thing as premier boosters in 3.0. Boosters all follow the same set of rules.
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
There is no such thing as premier boosters in 3.0. Boosters all follow the same set of rules.
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
DR-KODIUS
Re: General Testing
12/06/2012 09:16 PM CST
>>I know the functions of all these spells, friend. I didn't call any single one of them "premier" abilities, just offensive abilities that meet or exceed a barbarian's ability to boost his or her weapon-based offensive output with less trouble. RuE and HeS are battle spells; a typical Paladin could keep them going without any trouble.
>>RuE is not a premier damage buff I think you think it is.
>>HeS is a standard strength booster,
>>Wrath is a basic weapon skill boost, and thats it.
Wildfire should match anything RuE is capable of.
Bear should match anything HeS is capable of.
Dragon should match anything Wrath can do.
I'm not seeing how Barbarians are losing here....
Forms/Berserks/Meditations may become a bit easier to keep up due to the recent magic room mana fix.
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
>>RuE is not a premier damage buff I think you think it is.
>>HeS is a standard strength booster,
>>Wrath is a basic weapon skill boost, and thats it.
Wildfire should match anything RuE is capable of.
Bear should match anything HeS is capable of.
Dragon should match anything Wrath can do.
I'm not seeing how Barbarians are losing here....
Forms/Berserks/Meditations may become a bit easier to keep up due to the recent magic room mana fix.
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
