I can't log in, but do thieves have any recourse to train debilitation which does not depend on hiding?

I want to say choke. But that's only one ability? It would be nice to have 2 options.

I'm discounting the two khri because at 50th I won't have enough skill to run them, and getting to 50th with a small tool kit isn't fun.

Oh, but it does have kind of a nasty RT, regardless of if you pass or fail.

>>Don't get me wrong. Khri as a tool kit is (are?) awesome, and I like what they do. I'm strictly speaking about deb training here.

Barbs had major issues training Debilitation as well when teir stuff came out 3.0. It got "fixed" a few times to the point where now it is trainable if not yet all that useful.

Can the thiefs see say an AOE debilitation ability like "Throw dust" where we can throw a Cloud of dust to debilitate all opponents at meele? Or give us a I dont know a "smoke bomb" ability that does same?

>>Saying more Debilitation skill isn't useful simply reveals your ignorance.

Lets not sling insults. Pretty veteran player since 1999 I know how the stuff works. What the issue was the granfathered # of ranks was very low and pretty all barbs at outset of 3.0 were unable to affect opponents AT leel to learn Debilitation. Even now it is stil pretty mewh for use/effectivenes AT level unles you have invested a good amount of time backtraining it.

My barb with 700 to 800 in combats has a measely 385 in debilitation. Absolutely NO way I can train effectivelly at level with taht unles I use a Roar Helm. As far as actual utility usefulness. The debilitation amount is pretty low to the point where it lasts several seconds debuffs the oponents one lvl of balance and that is about it (for Anger the Earth).

Thiefs will potentialy suffer the same fate. The issue thiefs may face can be be compounded by the fact that there are no AOE Debilitation abilities so in terms of EXP all you get is for that ONE hit. At least barbs can Roar all oponents at meele and 3.1 will see Roar Area as well.

Once again I'd like to put in a request for a "Dirt Cloud" or some such similar Debilitation AOE affect for theifs please.

>>If you have to use AOEs to learn effectively, that's something that should be addressed globally and not with a band-aid of "giving everyone an AOE debilitation so they can train."

Dont disagree but it sure helps. Besides every single guild has AOE abilities/spells including barbs why not thiefs?

>This is no different than Paladins/Rangers and TM. Just put on your big barb pants and train up the ladder. Don't expect it to be on a silver platter form the get-go.

Honestly, it's even more ridiculous because the GMs and players have stated several times that you can train thief deb at any point at-level regardless of your ranks.

Just ambush whatever you're hunting anyway, and it trains, no specific backtraining required.

>> This is no different than Paladins/Rangers and TM.

It's quite a bit different. They didn't get free ranks, but had adequate time to prepare for the change. I would've preferred a way to train it 3 years ago as opposed to 3 years wasted and 'free lousy ranks' to show for it.

But I do agree, it's not debil that's preventing barbs from being effective.

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IM: Dannyboy00001111

"Fool proof system do not take into account the ingenuity of fools, nor the power of numbers."

>>Thiefs will potentialy suffer the same fate. The issue thiefs may face can be be compounded by the fact that there are no AOE Debilitation abilities so in terms of EXP all you get is for that ONE hit. At least barbs can Roar all oponents at meele and 3.1 will see Roar Area as well.

>>Once again I'd like to put in a request for a "Dirt Cloud" or some such similar Debilitation AOE affect for theifs please.

Thieves have an AoE Debil ambush. It's called screen, doesn't require you to be hidden to use, and trains rather well. With ~360 Debil ambushes/khris are possible to use in at-level (700s) combat, because as Gort stated success on the target is largely based on the SvS contest. Debilitation is the magic skill I have the least trouble training in Test.

A bit all over the place. I go from completely missing to max success with ambush slash and stun in assassins depending how beat up/debilitated they are. PvE seems pretty close to right for me when it comes to the new khri/ambushes/backstab. I haven't tested any PvP for awhile, but from what I'm hearing hasn't changed much for ambushes.

SvS resistance is affected by vitality. A good combos is BS followed by an ambush. Hard to resist something when you are stunned and at half health...

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"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes

Pretty sure he meant ambushes teaching BS.

>Casting a debil at your personal cap does grant an exp bonus

Casting at full prep also grants an exp bonus. I've found it easier to prep, attack for a while, then cast when it reaches full prep.