I think there may be something wrong with TM.
I have at least 3.5x more Evade than Noopin's TM.
>
Noopin briefly spreads his arms outward and begins to chant. The sounds intensify, burgeoning with cold savagery.
A sudden shout of "The man's dangerous!" heralds a nearby citizen to run for the guards.
>
The serpent earcuff coils, sensing your danger. Tiny fangs suddenly puncture your flesh, but the expected pain doesn't come. Instead, soothing warmth radiates outward from the bite, leaving you feeling a little better than before.
>
Noopin grows flushed as he segues to the new verse of his song, biting off each word with a fierceness that seems to incite the very air as a conflux of flames and frost is born about him.
You sense a spell weaken as it penetrates your protective barrier of inner fire!
The admixture of flames and frost lands a strong (7/23) hit to your abdomen!
The admixture of flames and frost lands a strong (7/23) hit to Gorteous's abdomen!
You are lightly stunned!
A sudden shout of "The man's dangerous!" heralds a nearby citizen to run for the guards.
S>
You sense a spell weaken as it penetrates your protective barrier of inner fire!
The admixture of flames and frost lands an obliterating (20/23) hit to your back!
The admixture of flames and frost lands an obliterating (20/23) hit to Gorteous's back!
The black radiance fades from your padded mask.
The black radiance fades from your skirmisher's shield.
The black radiance fades from your padded gloves.
The black radiance fades from your padded hood.
The black radiance fades from your padded hauberk.
The black radiance fades from your lance.
You feel the cursed pall wane away, renewing the vigor to your body.
Your death cry echoes in your brain as it quickly dawns on you that you have just died! Already, you feel the tug of eternity upon your soul and you struggle to remain tied to this world.
A chill takes the seat of your soul as your remaining spiritual strength bleeds away steadily. However, you are comforted that you have curried the favor of your god, which will greatly improve the course of your resurrection or reincarnation.
Your body will decay beyond its ability to hold your soul in 258 minutes.
A sudden shout of "The man's dangerous!" heralds a nearby citizen to run for the guards.
IM: Dannyboy00001111
"Fool proof system do not take into account the ingenuity of fools, nor the power of numbers."
GORTEOUS
JHALIASCLERIC
Re: Uhhhh, magic
05/07/2014 09:25 AM CDT
Out of curiosity, what's the 'black radiance' on your stuff?
JHALIASCLERIC
Symbiosis EB" [sic]
05/07/2014 09:27 AM CDT
The Enhance Body Symbiosis [SYMBIOSIS EB"]
shows up on my research list, but can't be researched. What is this?
2DUMBARSE
DRFREAK
Re: Uhhhh, magic
05/07/2014 01:44 PM CDT
I would also like to post that magic exp for both PM AND Arcana are way way way to low. Just spent 45 min locking magics got every magic locked using max casts with almost all the mana coming from cambrinth.
Arcane Magic: 1217 94% dabbling (1/34)
Arcana: 934 33.28% clear (0/34)
No idea how to make this work.
-Zerreck Arkarm
JHALIASCLERIC
Re: Uhhhh, magic
05/07/2014 03:09 PM CDT
Casting with a symbiosis seems to move things extremely quickly, but I don't have a data point for above 700PM.
DRFREAK
Re: Uhhhh, magic
05/07/2014 03:30 PM CDT
Yeah it moves all my other magics fine i guess. Just not PM or arcana. I cannot get either of these magics moving with reasonable effort.
-Zerreck Arkarm
CMANESS
Re: Uhhhh, magic
05/07/2014 04:18 PM CDT
Did sorcery spells become more difficult to cast? I haven't blown a cast of HoL in 300 ranks of socery, and today with nearly 500 ranks I blew off my hands twice.
In addition to that, I too haven't been able to get PM or arcana moving. At all.
In addition to that, I too haven't been able to get PM or arcana moving. At all.
DR-ARMIFER
Re: Uhhhh, magic
05/07/2014 04:33 PM CDT
>>Did sorcery spells become more difficult to cast? I haven't blown a cast of HoL in 300 ranks of socery, and today with nearly 500 ranks I blew off my hands twice.
Shouldn't have. Note that you never reduce a chance to explode to zero, so RNG shenanigans are still possible.
I'll try to remember to take a look soon, but experience and RESEARCH stuff is on the brain first.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
Shouldn't have. Note that you never reduce a chance to explode to zero, so RNG shenanigans are still possible.
I'll try to remember to take a look soon, but experience and RESEARCH stuff is on the brain first.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
2DUMBARSE
Re: Uhhhh, magic
05/07/2014 08:38 PM CDT
>Did sorcery spells become more difficult to cast? I haven't blown a cast of HoL in 300 ranks of socery, and today with nearly 500 ranks I blew off my hands twice.
Same here with HoL. I had to drop my preps about 10 mana. Did HoL difficulty change, maybe?
Same here with HoL. I had to drop my preps about 10 mana. Did HoL difficulty change, maybe?
ZUBBA
Re: Uhhhh, magic
05/09/2014 01:11 PM CDT
Any update on TM vs ranged weapon effectiveness. In platinum it appears ranged weapons are pretty far behind TM in dps, curious how that's playing out in prime.
CLERIXHAX
Re: Uhhhh, magic
05/09/2014 01:36 PM CDT
>Any update on TM vs ranged weapon effectiveness. In platinum it appears ranged weapons are pretty far behind TM in dps, curious how that's playing out in prime.
I'm averaging good to hard strikes with a foresters crossbow/crossbow bolt and a throwing hammer; yet plowing through mobs with TM.
I'm averaging good to hard strikes with a foresters crossbow/crossbow bolt and a throwing hammer; yet plowing through mobs with TM.
DR-KODIUS
Re: Uhhhh, magic
05/09/2014 02:24 PM CDT
I posted the numbers back when I made the changes, but TM damage should be something like this for a single-shot TM spell:
Min prep - less damage than a storebought shortbow using storebought arrows
20% prep - equivalent damage to a storebought shortbow using storebought arrows
50% prep - equivalent damage to a capped shortbow and capped arrows
66% prep - equivalent damage to a capped longbow and capped arrows
75% prep - equivalent damage to an arbalest and quads
100% prep - higher damage than normal bows. Mostly because 100% prep is just as time consuming to manage mana for, and you'll run out of mana quicker than arrows.
My testing prior to release showed this to be about the case. Please keep in mind that magic does different damage types and may make comparison difficult. Any numbers to back up the perception that bow is inferior?
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
Min prep - less damage than a storebought shortbow using storebought arrows
20% prep - equivalent damage to a storebought shortbow using storebought arrows
50% prep - equivalent damage to a capped shortbow and capped arrows
66% prep - equivalent damage to a capped longbow and capped arrows
75% prep - equivalent damage to an arbalest and quads
100% prep - higher damage than normal bows. Mostly because 100% prep is just as time consuming to manage mana for, and you'll run out of mana quicker than arrows.
My testing prior to release showed this to be about the case. Please keep in mind that magic does different damage types and may make comparison difficult. Any numbers to back up the perception that bow is inferior?
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
IPECAC
Re: Uhhhh, magic
05/09/2014 05:09 PM CDT
It feels to me like TM might be acting a bit too powerfully at the low ends right now, if the comparison to bows/xbows is how it's intended to be scaling.
From my testing just now in germish'din with 475 ranks TM and 439 ranks Crossbow:
Fully targeted Breath of Storms @ 6 mana - Avg. 3 hits to kill.
Fully targeted Breath of Storms @ 100 mana - Avg. 2 hits to kill.
Fully targeted Strange Arrow @ 6 mana - Avg. 4 hits to kill.
Fully targeted Strange Arrow @ 100 mana - Avg. 2 hits to kill.
Fully aimed shot using forester's crossbow and standard bolts - Avg. 4 shots to kill.
You are certain that the misshapen germish'din is healthy.
You are certain that the misshapen germish'din is somewhat fatigued.
You are certain that it is a little stronger than you are.
You are certain that it is definitely less agile than you are.
You are certain that it is quite a bit less disciplined than you are.
You are certain that it is quite a bit less quick to react than you are.
You are certain that it is about as conditioned as you are.
Taking stock of its offensive abilities, and defending with a small shield and a forester's crossbow, you are certain that the misshapen germish'din is definitely less skilled.
Taking stock of its defensive abilities, and attacking with a forester's crossbow, you are certain that the misshapen germish'din is something that you'd kill quickly.
If you attacked with a forester's crossbow, you are certain that the enemy would train acceptably.
If you threw the crossbow at the enemy you are certain that it would train exceptionally well, but you probably won't be landing many blows.
If you defended by parrying attacks, you are certain that the enemy would train quite badly.
If you defended by evading attacks, you are certain that the enemy would train quite badly.
If you defended by blocking attacks, you are certain that the enemy would train quite badly.
If you attempted to beguile the enemy with tactics, you are certain that it would train somewhat poorly.
If you targeted and cast a spell at the enemy, you are certain that it would train somewhat poorly.
If you attempted to debilitate the enemy, you are certain that it would train very poorly.
Hope that helps!
>befriend clear all
You are now friendless.
From my testing just now in germish'din with 475 ranks TM and 439 ranks Crossbow:
Fully targeted Breath of Storms @ 6 mana - Avg. 3 hits to kill.
Fully targeted Breath of Storms @ 100 mana - Avg. 2 hits to kill.
Fully targeted Strange Arrow @ 6 mana - Avg. 4 hits to kill.
Fully targeted Strange Arrow @ 100 mana - Avg. 2 hits to kill.
Fully aimed shot using forester's crossbow and standard bolts - Avg. 4 shots to kill.
You are certain that the misshapen germish'din is healthy.
You are certain that the misshapen germish'din is somewhat fatigued.
You are certain that it is a little stronger than you are.
You are certain that it is definitely less agile than you are.
You are certain that it is quite a bit less disciplined than you are.
You are certain that it is quite a bit less quick to react than you are.
You are certain that it is about as conditioned as you are.
Taking stock of its offensive abilities, and defending with a small shield and a forester's crossbow, you are certain that the misshapen germish'din is definitely less skilled.
Taking stock of its defensive abilities, and attacking with a forester's crossbow, you are certain that the misshapen germish'din is something that you'd kill quickly.
If you attacked with a forester's crossbow, you are certain that the enemy would train acceptably.
If you threw the crossbow at the enemy you are certain that it would train exceptionally well, but you probably won't be landing many blows.
If you defended by parrying attacks, you are certain that the enemy would train quite badly.
If you defended by evading attacks, you are certain that the enemy would train quite badly.
If you defended by blocking attacks, you are certain that the enemy would train quite badly.
If you attempted to beguile the enemy with tactics, you are certain that it would train somewhat poorly.
If you targeted and cast a spell at the enemy, you are certain that it would train somewhat poorly.
If you attempted to debilitate the enemy, you are certain that it would train very poorly.
Hope that helps!
>befriend clear all
You are now friendless.
MOCKERJB
Re: Uhhhh, magic
05/09/2014 09:31 PM CDT
I've noticed wildly differing reports from different people regarding TM strength. I think it would be helpful for anyone reporting their TM experience to continue to note the specific spells they're talking about. For instance, TKS and TKT are, currently, really terrible on damage, while I've heard that FOU and AE are annihilating things at an ungodly (hah cleric pun) rate.
I just don't want some universal "TM Powr" crank to get jacked back because there are outlying spells that are hitting too hard. For my part, nothing I've tried as a MM kills faster than my 2HE yet. Crossbow seems pretty strong, using heavy crossbows/slurbows and good ammo. Briochan, I bet if you swap bolts for quads, that change alone drops your crossbow shots per kill to 2.5 or 2.
I just don't want some universal "TM Powr" crank to get jacked back because there are outlying spells that are hitting too hard. For my part, nothing I've tried as a MM kills faster than my 2HE yet. Crossbow seems pretty strong, using heavy crossbows/slurbows and good ammo. Briochan, I bet if you swap bolts for quads, that change alone drops your crossbow shots per kill to 2.5 or 2.
DR-KODIUS
Re: Uhhhh, magic
05/09/2014 10:04 PM CDT
It may very well be that the ultimate TM solution is more complicated than what we have today. Each spell has its own quirks and I've not had time to test every permutation :P
Please give feedback when possible, with numbers, and I'll see what we can do.
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
Please give feedback when possible, with numbers, and I'll see what we can do.
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
DR-KODIUS
Re: Uhhhh, magic
05/09/2014 10:07 PM CDT
Hrugh. Germi are only 320 skill range. So you're likely getting incredible bonus damage anyways. And 35 rank difference could account for 1 hit difference. Hard to say. But quads would up the damage pretty heavily.
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
ALGOTHI
Re: Uhhhh, magic
05/09/2014 11:09 PM CDT
Done in Plat instance:
TM: 764
Siphon Vitality @ 30 mana (15 prep + 15 harnessed)
Siphon Vitality has a max prep of 109 mana and deals Fire and Cold damage.
Young Wyverns, 30 kills counted, ignoring misses.
3.0333 Casts per kill average, 91 mana used per kill on average.
5 killed in 2 hits (1st and 2nd hit on the same vital area)
19 killed in 3 hits
6 killed in 4 hits
91 Casts total.
I will do Vivi next, which does Slice and Puncture. Might compare better to Arrows/Bolts.
Elusive
mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
TM: 764
Siphon Vitality @ 30 mana (15 prep + 15 harnessed)
Siphon Vitality has a max prep of 109 mana and deals Fire and Cold damage.
Young Wyverns, 30 kills counted, ignoring misses.
3.0333 Casts per kill average, 91 mana used per kill on average.
5 killed in 2 hits (1st and 2nd hit on the same vital area)
19 killed in 3 hits
6 killed in 4 hits
91 Casts total.
I will do Vivi next, which does Slice and Puncture. Might compare better to Arrows/Bolts.
Elusive
mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
2DUMBARSE
Re: Uhhhh, magic
05/10/2014 12:01 AM CDT
>FOU and AE
These might be outliers since they aren't traditional TM spells. I think Fire is still DFA and AE hits like multiple single-strike TM spells instead of a single multi-strike spell. I faced both the other day. FoU didn't seem too crazy. AE took near 40% of my vit in one strike, but I attributed that to debilitations (divine radiance, CoZ and sick I think) at the time.
These might be outliers since they aren't traditional TM spells. I think Fire is still DFA and AE hits like multiple single-strike TM spells instead of a single multi-strike spell. I faced both the other day. FoU didn't seem too crazy. AE took near 40% of my vit in one strike, but I attributed that to debilitations (divine radiance, CoZ and sick I think) at the time.
ZUBBA
Re: Uhhhh, magic
05/10/2014 04:13 AM CDT
I'll have to figure out a way to do something a little more extensive, but in plat using a character with 925 bow vs a character with 780 TM (comparable relevant stats), the bow took an average of 5-6 full aim shots to kill a young wyvern where the caster could kill them consistently with two shots.
Even amping up the bow with eagle, monkey for balance, bear for a strength bonus, and wildfire yielded an average kill rate of 3 shots, STILL lower than the caster, despite the 145 rank difference.
I'll try and test more before calling shenanigans, but that test alone showed some pretty awkward balancing.
Even amping up the bow with eagle, monkey for balance, bear for a strength bonus, and wildfire yielded an average kill rate of 3 shots, STILL lower than the caster, despite the 145 rank difference.
I'll try and test more before calling shenanigans, but that test alone showed some pretty awkward balancing.
MOCKERJB
Re: Uhhhh, magic
05/10/2014 07:22 AM CDT
<<character with 780 TM (comparable relevant stats), the bow took an average of 5-6 full aim shots to kill a young wyvern where the caster could kill them consistently with two shots.>>
Definitely note the TM spell if do happen to do that testing again. AE is killing bone wyverns in two shots. They're like the beefiest critter in the game. I can't replicate that with any MM spell.
Definitely note the TM spell if do happen to do that testing again. AE is killing bone wyverns in two shots. They're like the beefiest critter in the game. I can't replicate that with any MM spell.
GNIKOLEYCHUK
Re: Uhhhh, magic
05/10/2014 01:29 PM CDT
AE always seemed to do more damage than other cleric spells (as a 50th cleric anyway) but this was offset/balanced by the spirit drain that limited chain casting. Even with auspice up I had to be careful or risk a spirit death. With 3.1 it seems that with auspice up the spirit drain is trivial. It seems like Auspice itself has changed since I don't get to mighty spirit levels with it anymore. Anyway, my points are:
1) AE is probably not a good spell to use for comparison since it has a downside to it. If you want to test it on a cleric use Horn, strange arrow or fists of faenella
2) AE probably should do more damage if it has a significant downside
3) AE's downside seems to have been trivialized in 3.1 (and therefore point 2 may be invalid if this is intentional)
1) AE is probably not a good spell to use for comparison since it has a downside to it. If you want to test it on a cleric use Horn, strange arrow or fists of faenella
2) AE probably should do more damage if it has a significant downside
3) AE's downside seems to have been trivialized in 3.1 (and therefore point 2 may be invalid if this is intentional)
DR-KODIUS
Re: Uhhhh, magic
05/10/2014 02:09 PM CDT
My testing has revealed that non-player made bows and arrows really suffer a lot... I might look into adding some core support so they aren't as bad.
I decided to make low-mana casts less effective for raising damage, but kept the higher damage when using over 40-50 mana. These results were done with those changes.
Testing 340 ranks of melee and 300 ranks of TM/Bow (due to AIM bonus), versus an at-circle enemy with 300 ranks of defense.
Tier 5 scimitar -
SLICE - 12-15 hits, 36-45 seconds
CHOP - 10-13 hits, 30-40 seconds
Tier 5 broadsword -
SLICE - 10-13 hits, 30-40 seconds
CHOP - 8-11 hits, 24-44 seconds
Tier 5 claymore -
SLICE - 6-8 hits, 24-32 seconds
CHOP - 4-6 hits, 20-30 seconds
ALA Spell -
10 Mana ALA - 5-6 hits, 55-66 seconds
50 Mana ALA - 3-4 hits, 33-44 seconds
100 Mana ALA - 2-3 hits, 22-33 seconds
Fireball Spell
30 mana FB - 7-8 hits
60 mana FB - 4-5 hits
100 mana FB - Couldn't get this off due to low TM skill
Strange Arrow
10 Mana STRA - 5-6 hits
100 Mana STRA - 2-3 hits
Blood Burst
30 Mana BLB - 4-5 hits
Unable to go higher
Aesrela Everild
30 Mana AE - 1-2 casts
60 Mana AE - 1 cast
Obviously this is broken and overpowered...
Capped Shortbow/Longbow with Basilisk arrows -
4-5 hits to kill, 48-60 seconds
Light crossbow with Quads -
3 hits to kill, 60 seconds
Arbalest with Quads -
3 hits, but often can pull it off with 2 using a powershot. 75 seconds
Some thoughts:
To me the damage looks rather good. Melee weapons look reasonably balanced in terms of time-to-kill. Overall it is in line with my wanting enemies to take longer than 30 seconds to kill. The problem is once your melee skill grows to 400 or 500 ranks, then enemies tend to die very quickly. A 300 rank enemy will teach to 470 ranks of melee skill, by which time they fall over when you look at them...
TM and Bow both allow attacks from a distance, so they are not going to be "faster" than using a melee weapon. The exception is using a 100 mana cast which cannot be maintained indefinitely.
Crossbows and Arbalests are an interesting thing to look at. Repeating crossbows make these difficult to balance properly.
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
I decided to make low-mana casts less effective for raising damage, but kept the higher damage when using over 40-50 mana. These results were done with those changes.
Testing 340 ranks of melee and 300 ranks of TM/Bow (due to AIM bonus), versus an at-circle enemy with 300 ranks of defense.
Tier 5 scimitar -
SLICE - 12-15 hits, 36-45 seconds
CHOP - 10-13 hits, 30-40 seconds
Tier 5 broadsword -
SLICE - 10-13 hits, 30-40 seconds
CHOP - 8-11 hits, 24-44 seconds
Tier 5 claymore -
SLICE - 6-8 hits, 24-32 seconds
CHOP - 4-6 hits, 20-30 seconds
ALA Spell -
10 Mana ALA - 5-6 hits, 55-66 seconds
50 Mana ALA - 3-4 hits, 33-44 seconds
100 Mana ALA - 2-3 hits, 22-33 seconds
Fireball Spell
30 mana FB - 7-8 hits
60 mana FB - 4-5 hits
100 mana FB - Couldn't get this off due to low TM skill
Strange Arrow
10 Mana STRA - 5-6 hits
100 Mana STRA - 2-3 hits
Blood Burst
30 Mana BLB - 4-5 hits
Unable to go higher
Aesrela Everild
30 Mana AE - 1-2 casts
60 Mana AE - 1 cast
Obviously this is broken and overpowered...
Capped Shortbow/Longbow with Basilisk arrows -
4-5 hits to kill, 48-60 seconds
Light crossbow with Quads -
3 hits to kill, 60 seconds
Arbalest with Quads -
3 hits, but often can pull it off with 2 using a powershot. 75 seconds
Some thoughts:
To me the damage looks rather good. Melee weapons look reasonably balanced in terms of time-to-kill. Overall it is in line with my wanting enemies to take longer than 30 seconds to kill. The problem is once your melee skill grows to 400 or 500 ranks, then enemies tend to die very quickly. A 300 rank enemy will teach to 470 ranks of melee skill, by which time they fall over when you look at them...
TM and Bow both allow attacks from a distance, so they are not going to be "faster" than using a melee weapon. The exception is using a 100 mana cast which cannot be maintained indefinitely.
Crossbows and Arbalests are an interesting thing to look at. Repeating crossbows make these difficult to balance properly.
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
ZUBBA
Re: Uhhhh, magic
05/10/2014 03:36 PM CDT
Maybe the problem is at higher ranks. 925 ranks + eagle + monkey + bear + wildfire WITH capped arrows is LESS effective than 780 TM, no offensive modifiers using various spells. This was a Barb vs. Moon Mage.
Parity is one thing, but if you pop into plat Damian and I can show you that it's just not there.
Parity is one thing, but if you pop into plat Damian and I can show you that it's just not there.
DR-KODIUS
Re: Uhhhh, magic
05/10/2014 04:12 PM CDT
At 780 TM you are getting a capped damage bonus against a Young Wyvern. Young Wyverns only have 610 defense skill. Therefore, the additional 200 ranks of bow are wasted.
Wildfire - Does nothing.
Bear - Small damage boost.
Monkey - Small accuracy boost.
Eagle - More skill boost which is wasted
In my testing the longbow + basilisk arrow was doing an identical damage range as the 30 mana Siphon Vitality. Both were capable of killing the Wyvern is 3-4 hits.
Going to sync Plat again to catch my most-recent changes.
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
Wildfire - Does nothing.
Bear - Small damage boost.
Monkey - Small accuracy boost.
Eagle - More skill boost which is wasted
In my testing the longbow + basilisk arrow was doing an identical damage range as the 30 mana Siphon Vitality. Both were capable of killing the Wyvern is 3-4 hits.
Going to sync Plat again to catch my most-recent changes.
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
ZUBBA
Re: Uhhhh, magic
05/10/2014 04:36 PM CDT
I'll drag Damian into something harder, and reassess. I figured the agility boost with wildfire would help a little. I'll drop that.
Thanks for the heads up, K.
Thanks for the heads up, K.
SCHULTZS3
Re: Uhhhh, magic
05/10/2014 05:01 PM CDT
>while I've heard that FOU and AE are annihilating things at an ungodly (hah cleric pun) rate.
You mean a godly rate.
Kaeta Airtag
"I have faith in the current crop of GMs to not screw people over"
>>Actually an opinion cannot be changed or corrected. Nice try back of line.-VERATHOR
>>But it can be wrong.-Starlear
You mean a godly rate.
Kaeta Airtag
"I have faith in the current crop of GMs to not screw people over"
>>Actually an opinion cannot be changed or corrected. Nice try back of line.-VERATHOR
>>But it can be wrong.-Starlear
MOCKERJB
Re: Uhhhh, magic
05/10/2014 06:41 PM CDT
Awesome test, thank you Kodius. It's so much cleaner for you to pull that off than it is for us to try and match up and control the variables. If you have a chance, I would also suggest that you test the kill rates (on that exact same spectrum) for blufmor garaen, starlight sphere, phoenix pyre (bard's), and rimefang. I suspect that all of those are massively overperforming right now (ala AE).
<<Crossbows and Arbalests are an interesting thing to look at. Repeating crossbows make these difficult to balance properly.>>
One way of doing that might be to weight the stats of the heavy crossbow in some extreme fashion. All repeater crossbows and reduced roundtime crossbows that I'm aware of, light and heavy, have "no suitedness" for strength and usually only "fair" balance.
<<Crossbows and Arbalests are an interesting thing to look at. Repeating crossbows make these difficult to balance properly.>>
One way of doing that might be to weight the stats of the heavy crossbow in some extreme fashion. All repeater crossbows and reduced roundtime crossbows that I'm aware of, light and heavy, have "no suitedness" for strength and usually only "fair" balance.
IPECAC
Re: Uhhhh, magic
05/10/2014 10:44 PM CDT
Yeah thanks so much for posting those numbers, Kodius
The one thing I'd ask when balancing crossbow with the other skills is not to rely on pulzones/quadrellos for data points. I know some folks swear by them, and they've obviously the most potent ammunition, but given their rarity and cost compared to capped fletched arrows, I'm not sure that it makes for a reasonable comparison. Just my two cents though!
Now if you guys want to make quadrellos and pulzones widely available... :D
>befriend clear all
You are now friendless.
The one thing I'd ask when balancing crossbow with the other skills is not to rely on pulzones/quadrellos for data points. I know some folks swear by them, and they've obviously the most potent ammunition, but given their rarity and cost compared to capped fletched arrows, I'm not sure that it makes for a reasonable comparison. Just my two cents though!
Now if you guys want to make quadrellos and pulzones widely available... :D
>befriend clear all
You are now friendless.
DR-KODIUS
Re: Uhhhh, magic
05/10/2014 10:46 PM CDT
Well, the current problem is that basilisk arrows and quads are TWICE as effective as normal stuff. It isn't easy coding in a workaround for handling that.... can't wait until those are craftable!
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
BLUESUEDESHOES
Re: Uhhhh, magic
05/11/2014 02:40 PM CDT
Hmm... craftable quads and pulzones... If only there were a GM who was a coding guru AND a crafting guru ::wink, wink:: I mean, besides the 2356432 OTHER things on your plate, yes please, craftable bolts, crossbows, etc. Thanks Kodius!
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"I only automatically kill players when they're asking for it or it's funny. Or both." ~GM Raesh
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"I only automatically kill players when they're asking for it or it's funny. Or both." ~GM Raesh
