What about when staff are doing things to make players leave the game? I know of several accounts closed over this last incident.
TZIMMERMAN
YAMCER
Re: Another thing entirely
04/29/2010 04:58 PM CDT
<<What about when staff are doing things to make players leave the game? I know of several accounts closed over this last incident.>>
uggg ::facepalm::
Yamcer
"You know, while I understand the importance of seeing the (personal) validity in other's arguments, it's impossible for me to believe fully that others are correct. If their argument was correct, I'd change mine." - My GF
uggg ::facepalm::
Yamcer
"You know, while I understand the importance of seeing the (personal) validity in other's arguments, it's impossible for me to believe fully that others are correct. If their argument was correct, I'd change mine." - My GF
JCAGLEX2
Re: Another thing entirely
04/29/2010 05:01 PM CDT
I think its reasonable to say that the player base has been slowly diminishing. I wonder why?
SUAVETERRORIST
Re: Another thing entirely
04/29/2010 05:09 PM CDT
>>I can field this one very easily. There are any number of players who are new, or who have never had a situation where they need to deal with staff, and do not know how to contact us.
>>When people are doing things that make others leave the game, the staff will get involved, and so will I.
I'm not sure how these statements are supposed to make sense or be relevant to the topic at hand?
If no one is complaining or asking for staff intervention, how could you say that something is happening that will cause them to leave the game and thus justify stepping in without being asked to?
I cant speak for everyone of course, but i'd be furious if i was having a fun little conflict with someone and some GM randomly decided i might quit the game over something they did and came down to dish them out warnings.
Also, i dont believe anyone in the situation this pertains to is a new player that doesnt know about report or assist.
Eladrin
>>When people are doing things that make others leave the game, the staff will get involved, and so will I.
I'm not sure how these statements are supposed to make sense or be relevant to the topic at hand?
If no one is complaining or asking for staff intervention, how could you say that something is happening that will cause them to leave the game and thus justify stepping in without being asked to?
I cant speak for everyone of course, but i'd be furious if i was having a fun little conflict with someone and some GM randomly decided i might quit the game over something they did and came down to dish them out warnings.
Also, i dont believe anyone in the situation this pertains to is a new player that doesnt know about report or assist.
Eladrin
GANDERGOOSE
Re: Another thing entirely
04/29/2010 05:13 PM CDT
>>Also, i dont believe anyone in the situation this pertains to is a new player that doesnt know about report or assist.
Agree 100%. It was Ratha after all.
Agree 100%. It was Ratha after all.
SIMU-SOLOMON
Re: Another thing entirely
04/29/2010 05:42 PM CDT
This thread has gone from "another thing entirely" back to the original topic, so it's being moved to the EC.
Solomon
Fight me:
http://la-bubbita.mybrute.com
Solomon
Fight me:
http://la-bubbita.mybrute.com
DR-LOCKOUT
Re: Another thing entirely
04/29/2010 06:23 PM CDT
My response had nothing to do with the original topic. It was a general statement about why staff gets involved when there may not have been a request to do so.
That it was used to attempt to reopen the dead topic was unwise.
Sanguious
That it was used to attempt to reopen the dead topic was unwise.
Sanguious
SUAVETERRORIST
Re: Another thing entirely
04/29/2010 06:47 PM CDT
>>My response had nothing to do with the original topic. It was a general statement about why staff gets involved when there may not have been a request to do so.
Oh, i just assumed it was responding to that topic, it seemed to kinda sorta fit with it. Sorry about that then.
Either way, i am still kinda curious how one determines that something is going to cause someone to leave the game and needs staff intervention without anyone actually complaining though.
Eladrin
Oh, i just assumed it was responding to that topic, it seemed to kinda sorta fit with it. Sorry about that then.
Either way, i am still kinda curious how one determines that something is going to cause someone to leave the game and needs staff intervention without anyone actually complaining though.
Eladrin
DR-LOCKOUT
Re: Another thing entirely
04/29/2010 07:18 PM CDT
>>Either way, i am still kinda curious how one determines that something is going to cause someone to leave the game and needs staff intervention without anyone actually complaining though.
If it is me, I have access to everything. I am able to tell if the target character is a new character or new account, its start date, or if it is a recent reactivation after being gone for years. For many other staff members, things that raise red flags would be, killing spree out the west gate, or reports from characters not directly involved. There are multiple things that have that effect, that list is not all inclusive.
As a second point, if asked to look at someone, I can find out if they have caused people to leave in the past, and have removed accounts so identified. Finding them after the fact is conclusive, I can point right at the closed accounts.
Sanguious
If it is me, I have access to everything. I am able to tell if the target character is a new character or new account, its start date, or if it is a recent reactivation after being gone for years. For many other staff members, things that raise red flags would be, killing spree out the west gate, or reports from characters not directly involved. There are multiple things that have that effect, that list is not all inclusive.
As a second point, if asked to look at someone, I can find out if they have caused people to leave in the past, and have removed accounts so identified. Finding them after the fact is conclusive, I can point right at the closed accounts.
Sanguious
CRITTERDASLT
Re: Another thing entirely
04/29/2010 07:21 PM CDT
<<My response had nothing to do with the original topic. It was a general statement about why staff gets involved when there may not have been a request to do so.
Is it staffs belief that this failed gweth smash would have caused anyone to quit the game?
Is it staffs belief that this failed gweth smash would have caused anyone to quit the game?
CHRISTIANSONK3
Re: Another thing entirely
04/29/2010 08:48 PM CDT
>>I think its reasonable to say that the player base has been slowly diminishing. I wonder why?
Show me a game thats been out for over 10 years where this isn't the case.
The most enjoyable online games i've ever played like Diablo 2, Counter-strike, Starcraft, lose players over time. Its a fact of life, and when people try and say "OH GEE I WONDER WHY THERES ONLY X AMOUNT OF PLAYERS NOW AS OPPOSED TO Y" as if stumbling upon some meaningful issue, its just stupid.
People find new games to play, and when stumbling around looking for a new way to waste your time, its a lot easier to find a newer game thats the latest hit than it is to find a MUD like dragonrealms. Find some other statistic to hang your hat on when trying to validate an arguement, please.
-Landros
Show me a game thats been out for over 10 years where this isn't the case.
The most enjoyable online games i've ever played like Diablo 2, Counter-strike, Starcraft, lose players over time. Its a fact of life, and when people try and say "OH GEE I WONDER WHY THERES ONLY X AMOUNT OF PLAYERS NOW AS OPPOSED TO Y" as if stumbling upon some meaningful issue, its just stupid.
People find new games to play, and when stumbling around looking for a new way to waste your time, its a lot easier to find a newer game thats the latest hit than it is to find a MUD like dragonrealms. Find some other statistic to hang your hat on when trying to validate an arguement, please.
-Landros
CHRISTIANSONK3
Re: Another thing entirely
04/29/2010 08:52 PM CDT
Sorry for the double post.
You could just as easily turn around and say, "How is it that in the age of games like Crysis, Call of Duty, and World of Warcraft, a text based game like this has even lasted so long. They must be doing something right."
-Landros
You could just as easily turn around and say, "How is it that in the age of games like Crysis, Call of Duty, and World of Warcraft, a text based game like this has even lasted so long. They must be doing something right."
-Landros
SHADOW7988
Re: Another thing entirely
04/29/2010 09:06 PM CDT
I totally agree with:
>You could just as easily turn around and say, "How is it that in the age of games like Crysis, Call of Duty, and World of Warcraft, a text based game like this has even lasted so long. They must be doing something right."
>-Landros
And no reason to apologize for such a succinct post. At least by my POV.
-Shadow7988
_____________________________________
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
>You could just as easily turn around and say, "How is it that in the age of games like Crysis, Call of Duty, and World of Warcraft, a text based game like this has even lasted so long. They must be doing something right."
>-Landros
And no reason to apologize for such a succinct post. At least by my POV.
-Shadow7988
_____________________________________
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
GANDERGOOSE
Re: Another thing entirely
05/01/2010 04:28 PM CDT
>>The most enjoyable online games i've ever played like Diablo 2, Counter-strike, Starcraft, lose players over time.
Starcraft is a bad example as it has only gained popularity over time with the only reason for a recent decline is the beta sequel.
I digress. Saying that most games will lose their playerbase over time is indeed true, but it's still not unreasonable to wonder why this one in particular has lost players and what management doing to rectify these losses and prevent furthers ones. Every online game, text based or otherwise, is unique to this problem and the story will change with every one of them as to why this happens. Lack of development, lack of excitement, lack of events, and poor management are the common reasons why this happens. Dragonrealms is often accused of suffering from all of these, but all in all, it's still a great game and I love it and all of the crazy people who play it.
However, you simply can't honestly tell me that if situations like these didn't occur that Dragonrealms would have lost the same significant amount of players over time. Gamemaster mistakes happen, naturally, but they do happen a lot more frequently than they should in this game. For example, I was once pulled up three separate times for three separate consults for clouting, an ability that requires no consent, one person once.
There needs to be a better system in place and better checks and balances upon Gamemaster power. They are only human, after all, and we as a race are far from perfect and we the players as the loyal(if not addicted), paying customer deserve unbiased fair treatment and a clear set list of rules that are required of us to follow. It has been stated that each situation is unique, and I do agree, which makes this hard to put clearly into writing, but there has to be a better system in place. This one isn't working as well as it's probably intended. When players often state they feel that they are the targets of Gamemaster harassment, something has to change.
I had a point when I started this post and I hope I made whatever was, I'm overtired and I'm sure I got completely lost in a tangent.
~Gothus
Starcraft is a bad example as it has only gained popularity over time with the only reason for a recent decline is the beta sequel.
I digress. Saying that most games will lose their playerbase over time is indeed true, but it's still not unreasonable to wonder why this one in particular has lost players and what management doing to rectify these losses and prevent furthers ones. Every online game, text based or otherwise, is unique to this problem and the story will change with every one of them as to why this happens. Lack of development, lack of excitement, lack of events, and poor management are the common reasons why this happens. Dragonrealms is often accused of suffering from all of these, but all in all, it's still a great game and I love it and all of the crazy people who play it.
However, you simply can't honestly tell me that if situations like these didn't occur that Dragonrealms would have lost the same significant amount of players over time. Gamemaster mistakes happen, naturally, but they do happen a lot more frequently than they should in this game. For example, I was once pulled up three separate times for three separate consults for clouting, an ability that requires no consent, one person once.
There needs to be a better system in place and better checks and balances upon Gamemaster power. They are only human, after all, and we as a race are far from perfect and we the players as the loyal(if not addicted), paying customer deserve unbiased fair treatment and a clear set list of rules that are required of us to follow. It has been stated that each situation is unique, and I do agree, which makes this hard to put clearly into writing, but there has to be a better system in place. This one isn't working as well as it's probably intended. When players often state they feel that they are the targets of Gamemaster harassment, something has to change.
I had a point when I started this post and I hope I made whatever was, I'm overtired and I'm sure I got completely lost in a tangent.
~Gothus
SCHISSLERB1
Re: Another thing entirely
05/02/2010 05:46 PM CDT
<<My response had nothing to do with the original topic. It was a general statement about why staff gets involved when there may not have been a request to do so.
That it was used to attempt to reopen the dead topic was unwise.>>
If that's what you want to see the new thread as, so be it.
But the question was pretty legitimate. Sometimes its more than obvious that both parties involved are not new to the game at all, but gamemasters will intervene regardless of being called on or not.
That it was used to attempt to reopen the dead topic was unwise.>>
If that's what you want to see the new thread as, so be it.
But the question was pretty legitimate. Sometimes its more than obvious that both parties involved are not new to the game at all, but gamemasters will intervene regardless of being called on or not.
THIEF-ACCOUNT
Re: Another thing entirely
05/06/2010 12:04 PM CDT
<<Lack of development, lack of excitement, lack of events, and poor management are the common reasons why this happens. Dragonrealms is often accused of suffering from all of these>>
<<what [is] management doing to rectify these [customer] losses and prevent furthers ones.>>
I agree that those are reasons why games, in general, can lose customers. And I agree that DR has been accused of suffering these complaints.
I think it's important to be realistic, even when we disagree with a particular incident, and acknowledge that development and events have been on overdrive for over 2 years. I can't in good conscience accuse DR of not having high-volume, regular, and exciting development. There were years when the game seemed pretty stagnant. In my view it hasn't been that way in a long, long time.
And, if we're not just ignoring reality, effective management has everything to do with the success of these development programs that roll out one after another.
If the question is, "What has DR done to stem the emigration of customers?" The answer has to be, "...they have produced SO MUCH product since BEFORE the recession started that none of us should be able to question the level of development in this game." So much product that players should easily perceive their effort and thusly should be inspired to stay on the rolls.
The reason why we all have examples of this or that personal experience with a GM consultation is because they feel the need to arbitrate IG player conflicts under some circumstances. That decision opens up a can of worms. Sometimes players will agree with them sometimes they will resent it. In this recent case there seems to be some resentment.
But the problem is not, in my view, developement.
<<what [is] management doing to rectify these [customer] losses and prevent furthers ones.>>
I agree that those are reasons why games, in general, can lose customers. And I agree that DR has been accused of suffering these complaints.
I think it's important to be realistic, even when we disagree with a particular incident, and acknowledge that development and events have been on overdrive for over 2 years. I can't in good conscience accuse DR of not having high-volume, regular, and exciting development. There were years when the game seemed pretty stagnant. In my view it hasn't been that way in a long, long time.
And, if we're not just ignoring reality, effective management has everything to do with the success of these development programs that roll out one after another.
If the question is, "What has DR done to stem the emigration of customers?" The answer has to be, "...they have produced SO MUCH product since BEFORE the recession started that none of us should be able to question the level of development in this game." So much product that players should easily perceive their effort and thusly should be inspired to stay on the rolls.
The reason why we all have examples of this or that personal experience with a GM consultation is because they feel the need to arbitrate IG player conflicts under some circumstances. That decision opens up a can of worms. Sometimes players will agree with them sometimes they will resent it. In this recent case there seems to be some resentment.
But the problem is not, in my view, developement.
THIEF-ACCOUNT
Re: Another thing entirely
05/06/2010 12:12 PM CDT
Lastly, players do not leave DR en masse because of GM consultations. That's just not true. Anger because of this or that incident has been a tradition here, and the player base has not diminished because of it.
We are in the second year of the worst recession since the depression.
They aren't advertising enough.
Who knows what the problem is, but its not consultations lawl.
We are in the second year of the worst recession since the depression.
They aren't advertising enough.
Who knows what the problem is, but its not consultations lawl.
