> Bullies threatening to smash on the gweths
There are also cases of “RP” intimidation going on. Face to face, whispers can be exchanged to indicate not being comfortable, but when this goes on over the gweth, it’s far more difficult to let the player know you aren’t comfortable with a situation. My brother is having this exact problem now. Intimidation and smashing because “I don’t like the way you speak.” I think that is unacceptable. If you aren’t ridding the gweth of real annoyances then have the decency as a player to explain to the other player why you’re doing it, and be ready to let up if they are not interested in participating in your “RP.” I hate to think that I don’t have free reign to RP my character without worrying that I may be upsetting someone who got up on the wrong side of bed this morning and is wielding a smasher.
> DR is about choices
DR has always been a world where you can go to live another life altogether, but the important thing is that, in general, you have many choices. One of which is PvP. As we’ve seen with the Profile verb, there are people on either side of the fence. This can be seen by their PvP stance. Well, gweths, for the great majority of the life of DR, has been an open portion of the game that anyone can access free of having to choose to enter the PvP equation. Now, just projecting a thought puts you right in the middle of it. That thought allows you to be smashed, therefore giving you consent. Again, small consolation if one is not interested in getting involved. Of course, things that grant consent outside of the gweth can usually be reported. Person A kills person B, person B reports unless they did something to give A consent. We have been given the power to exclude ourselves from unwanted PvP, but not so on the gweth. In actuality, that power has been taken away from us.
> Gwethsmashers have empowered people
Of course, as everyone knows, power corrupts, and this is no exception. In most of the posts I’ve seen defending smashers it seems that people don’t want to lose the power they’ve gained, instead of looking for a more fair and consistent solution to the annoyances on the gweth. (Again, this is not everyone!)
We are at the mercy of those who prefer to have power than actually solve the issue. I’ve read posts on people policing the gweths, but policing using what code or law? The posts I read, for example, have people smashing others for saying they are going to sleep when they are logging off, or read a scroll or sent a pigeon for web pages or IMs. These people are self-appointed judge, jury and executioner for things like RP. In the case of RP, I’ve seen random occurrences of RP enforcement than makes Plat look like it’s completely OOC. If this is any indication of the consistency we can expect from gweth policing, I’d rather not have a gweth.
> My suggestion…
I’ve seen people complain time and time again about gwethsmashers in the forums, and they are usually shot down. It can be intimidating to speak up when the same forum trolls flame you for your ideas. I think the GMs should post a poll on the DR home page to vote for the continued existence of gwethsmashers. How hard would it be to do that to find out once and for all whether they are wanted or not? At least people like me would be satisfied that everything has been done.
FGAGNON
DR-ARMIFER
Re: Rant: Gwethsmashers (Part 2)
04/09/2009 05:33 PM CDT
A rather odd effect of gwethsmashers on the forums has been that in every single argument against them, the author has unintentionally highlighted why they should continue to exist. Typically this has been done in rather dramatic and easily dismissible fashion -- for example, someone complaining about a smash clearly demonstrating an irrational and combative personality that you could grate cheese on.
In contrast, these posts are well constructed and, though not without error, presents the most level-headed argument on the topic I've ever seen. So, I cannot dismiss it out of hand.
>>Point 1: Item Theft Inconsistencies
Though you are dismissive of the possibility, you are incorrect. There is nothing fundamentally wrong with item theft -- a player is free to take your scimitar and run for the hills if he does so without violating another policy. The later part is the stickler -- item theft is often entangled in PvP w/o Consent, Mechanical Abuse, Harassment, and other violations, and will thus be judged harshly if it winds up in front of a GM.
>>Point 2: Statistic Contest versus Open Smashing
Pretend for a moment that your intention is to moderate the gwethsmashing system, rather than undermine what you conceive will be your opponent's argument.
The statistic contest as it is set up is irrespective of skill or circle except as part of a positive correlation (higher circled characters will, on average, have higher mentals than lower circle characters). A more precise read of the situation would present a different form of favoritism instead: guild-based. Moon Mages and those who train stats like an archetypal Moon Mage will be dozens of circles ahead of the average, while Barbarians cannot do it at all.
While the two correlate, reading a causation between combat power and gwethsmash power is going to cause you undue distress. Comparing the potential that you may not be able to confront your aggressor with the inevitability that you will not be able to confront your aggressor with a system that supports commoner mules should make the outcome clear.
>>Point 3: Smasher Availability
No real argument possible or necessary here -- Gwethsmashers are not meant to be an especially rare item. As long as the accessability remains less than Gwethdesuans themselves, their price and availability will go without further moderation.
>>Point 4: Roleplaying
And here, I will assert, is where we again unintentionally display the merit of gwethsmashers.
The fundamental assumption of the argument, insofar as I interpret it, is that gwethsmashers intrude upon your roleplaying by allowing a PvP situation to exist in the gwethdesuan network. That is to say, someone may take exception to your character's comments and punish him for it, and you are then not only at a loss of the item but stifled in your attempt to roleplay your character.
Here's where I say the wildly unpopular part: this is a good thing. For the raw power and intrusive qualities of every single Gwethdesuan act, the average player in DragonRealms takes the system with irrational levity.
There are two legitimate reasons to use a gwethsmasher without venturing into the murky waters of Harassment policy. First, to police the gwethdesuans for violations of roleplay, as the community (which is to say, those who care enough and are invested enough to make and hold gwethsmashers) deems prudent. To that end, your post actually highlights that they are being successful. If someone is talking about GMNPCs "waking up," or referring to AIM as pigeons, or numerous other things we could toss out of the hat, they should be removed from the public forum until their roleplaying method improves.
Second, they could be gwethsmashing for an IC reason. That is, the character does not like what your character said, and decides to make his opinion known in an unsubtle manner. This is PvP, but it is also roleplaying and cannot be rejected if you wish to champion the cause of roleplaying at all. When your character is in a public forum, you do not get the privilege of determining who will interact with you, and how they will interpret your actions.
I've used the term "public forum" twice now intentionally. Gwethdesuans are different than anything else in the game -- they are not a single room, no matter how full, or a private roleplayed encounter with your friends. They are a medium where you are roleplaying with dozens if not hundreds of players simultaneously. You owe it to your fellow players to venture into it with only your absolute best performance, and in turn you must expect that any of those hundreds of players may engage you in roleplaying (with, theoretically, their best). If you do not care to open yourself up to roleplaying in such an extreme way, the only justifiable way to do so is to not open yourself up to roleplay in such an extreme way.
The sane alternative is, in fact, your nuclear option. It'd be better to remove gwethdesuans from the game (again), than to go back to what we were dealing with day in and day out before gwethsmashers were introduced.
-Armifer
<Kvlt> Step 1: Want stuff! Step 2: Be ambitious! Step 3: Believe in the ability of your fellow man to carry you to heights you are too incompetent to reach alone.
In contrast, these posts are well constructed and, though not without error, presents the most level-headed argument on the topic I've ever seen. So, I cannot dismiss it out of hand.
>>Point 1: Item Theft Inconsistencies
Though you are dismissive of the possibility, you are incorrect. There is nothing fundamentally wrong with item theft -- a player is free to take your scimitar and run for the hills if he does so without violating another policy. The later part is the stickler -- item theft is often entangled in PvP w/o Consent, Mechanical Abuse, Harassment, and other violations, and will thus be judged harshly if it winds up in front of a GM.
>>Point 2: Statistic Contest versus Open Smashing
Pretend for a moment that your intention is to moderate the gwethsmashing system, rather than undermine what you conceive will be your opponent's argument.
The statistic contest as it is set up is irrespective of skill or circle except as part of a positive correlation (higher circled characters will, on average, have higher mentals than lower circle characters). A more precise read of the situation would present a different form of favoritism instead: guild-based. Moon Mages and those who train stats like an archetypal Moon Mage will be dozens of circles ahead of the average, while Barbarians cannot do it at all.
While the two correlate, reading a causation between combat power and gwethsmash power is going to cause you undue distress. Comparing the potential that you may not be able to confront your aggressor with the inevitability that you will not be able to confront your aggressor with a system that supports commoner mules should make the outcome clear.
>>Point 3: Smasher Availability
No real argument possible or necessary here -- Gwethsmashers are not meant to be an especially rare item. As long as the accessability remains less than Gwethdesuans themselves, their price and availability will go without further moderation.
>>Point 4: Roleplaying
And here, I will assert, is where we again unintentionally display the merit of gwethsmashers.
The fundamental assumption of the argument, insofar as I interpret it, is that gwethsmashers intrude upon your roleplaying by allowing a PvP situation to exist in the gwethdesuan network. That is to say, someone may take exception to your character's comments and punish him for it, and you are then not only at a loss of the item but stifled in your attempt to roleplay your character.
Here's where I say the wildly unpopular part: this is a good thing. For the raw power and intrusive qualities of every single Gwethdesuan act, the average player in DragonRealms takes the system with irrational levity.
There are two legitimate reasons to use a gwethsmasher without venturing into the murky waters of Harassment policy. First, to police the gwethdesuans for violations of roleplay, as the community (which is to say, those who care enough and are invested enough to make and hold gwethsmashers) deems prudent. To that end, your post actually highlights that they are being successful. If someone is talking about GMNPCs "waking up," or referring to AIM as pigeons, or numerous other things we could toss out of the hat, they should be removed from the public forum until their roleplaying method improves.
Second, they could be gwethsmashing for an IC reason. That is, the character does not like what your character said, and decides to make his opinion known in an unsubtle manner. This is PvP, but it is also roleplaying and cannot be rejected if you wish to champion the cause of roleplaying at all. When your character is in a public forum, you do not get the privilege of determining who will interact with you, and how they will interpret your actions.
I've used the term "public forum" twice now intentionally. Gwethdesuans are different than anything else in the game -- they are not a single room, no matter how full, or a private roleplayed encounter with your friends. They are a medium where you are roleplaying with dozens if not hundreds of players simultaneously. You owe it to your fellow players to venture into it with only your absolute best performance, and in turn you must expect that any of those hundreds of players may engage you in roleplaying (with, theoretically, their best). If you do not care to open yourself up to roleplaying in such an extreme way, the only justifiable way to do so is to not open yourself up to roleplay in such an extreme way.
The sane alternative is, in fact, your nuclear option. It'd be better to remove gwethdesuans from the game (again), than to go back to what we were dealing with day in and day out before gwethsmashers were introduced.
-Armifer
<Kvlt> Step 1: Want stuff! Step 2: Be ambitious! Step 3: Believe in the ability of your fellow man to carry you to heights you are too incompetent to reach alone.
FGAGNON
Re: Rant: Gwethsmashers (Part 2)
04/09/2009 06:31 PM CDT
Well, first off, I want to thank you Armifier, for responding with a well explained post. I, mistakenly, believed that moving my post here to the Equine Cemetary would mean no GM would look at it. I am wrong, and more than happy for it.
While I still don't like Gwethsmashers, I grudgingly accept your reasoning. At least I can understand the GM point of view on this.
I will mull over your points regarding RP, as they make far more sense than I am currently willing to admit.
I can't spend to much more time on this right now, gotta a dinner date, but again, thank you for restoring my faith in DR.
Responding is half the battle!
While I still don't like Gwethsmashers, I grudgingly accept your reasoning. At least I can understand the GM point of view on this.
I will mull over your points regarding RP, as they make far more sense than I am currently willing to admit.
I can't spend to much more time on this right now, gotta a dinner date, but again, thank you for restoring my faith in DR.
Responding is half the battle!
