>>If you want to talk about "efficiency" not in terms of guild advancement but purely for the sake of TDPs training, are you proposing that a moon mage locking several tert skills is going ot offset a barbarian locking the same skills at prime rate?
Yes because a MM can keep 4-5 primary skills mind locked. Even in the upper 700+ in skill. When a MM gets over 1000 in their best magics, they can still mind locked them because 4 magic skills are trained in a single cast.
>>Sure, the barb wont lock all 22 of them, but he's going to easily lock 3 or 4 weapons consistently
If a Barbarian is training 22 weapons (more than just getting them to thoughtful or learning) he will not keep 3 or 4 locked consistently.
>>Moon mage also suffere significantly greater risk of death at same combat ranks as the barbarian, and those deaths would significantlys et back the moon mage's training.
No they don't. All combat ranks are the same. 100 ranks in evasion for a Barbarian is the same as 100 ranks in evasion for a MM.
Vinjince
VEE-REX
VAHLISSA
Re: TDP difference between MU and NMU's
03/30/2009 03:45 PM CDT
My moon mage can lock TM, PM, Harness, Shield, Evasion, Leather, MO, ME, LX, Hiding, and Stalking while training combats (some times skinning and perception (hunt verb) too depending on the hunting area.) I often type in exp when I take a break and my heart melts when I see all those Mind Lock, Bewildered(ing) skills.
That is 11 skills with a potential for 13. Add in cambrinth and it could be 14.
My Moon Mage's mind state will sometimes get to fluid or murky but with the high mentals most moon mages have it really is not a huge wait for it to come back down.
It has been about 12 months since I first started combats with her and she is at caracal level right now. Skills range from low 200's in MO to mid-upper 200's for defences.
With disabling spells I don't see how Moon Mages would be at a greater risk training combats than barbarians.
That is 11 skills with a potential for 13. Add in cambrinth and it could be 14.
My Moon Mage's mind state will sometimes get to fluid or murky but with the high mentals most moon mages have it really is not a huge wait for it to come back down.
It has been about 12 months since I first started combats with her and she is at caracal level right now. Skills range from low 200's in MO to mid-upper 200's for defences.
With disabling spells I don't see how Moon Mages would be at a greater risk training combats than barbarians.
BONECHEWER
Re: TDP difference between MU and NMU's
03/30/2009 03:48 PM CDT
>If a Barbarian is training 22 weapons (more than just getting them to thoughtful or learning) he will not keep 3 or 4 locked consistently.
Umm... and? I never said the barb will be working on 22 skills, I meant to suggest that the barb can easily work on more than 5. Are you saying you have trouble keeping 6 weapons at muddled between offhand skill, offhand weapon, main weapon, swapping a main, multi, and parrying? Being able to keep multi consistently locked even at primary rate is huge when you consider some tert weapons have trouble keepin gmulti past muddled.
>No they don't. All combat ranks are the same. 100 ranks in evasion for a Barbarian is the same as 100 ranks in evasion for a MM.
Its called Berserks, Roars, and Dancers, in comparison to Seer's Sense and Cage of Light
>With disabling spells I don't see how Moon Mages would be at a greater risk training combats than barbarians.
I applaud you for finding a way to train that well for a moon mage, but i still have trouble disabling at-level creatures, let alone not run into mana problems, when there's too many for my moon mage to handle unless my magic skills severely outclass the creature.
"When I grow up, I want to be a soulless monster trapped in a suit of enchanted armor and compelled into violent service for a commercial institution through torturous psychic conditioning." -- Armifer
Umm... and? I never said the barb will be working on 22 skills, I meant to suggest that the barb can easily work on more than 5. Are you saying you have trouble keeping 6 weapons at muddled between offhand skill, offhand weapon, main weapon, swapping a main, multi, and parrying? Being able to keep multi consistently locked even at primary rate is huge when you consider some tert weapons have trouble keepin gmulti past muddled.
>No they don't. All combat ranks are the same. 100 ranks in evasion for a Barbarian is the same as 100 ranks in evasion for a MM.
Its called Berserks, Roars, and Dancers, in comparison to Seer's Sense and Cage of Light
>With disabling spells I don't see how Moon Mages would be at a greater risk training combats than barbarians.
I applaud you for finding a way to train that well for a moon mage, but i still have trouble disabling at-level creatures, let alone not run into mana problems, when there's too many for my moon mage to handle unless my magic skills severely outclass the creature.
"When I grow up, I want to be a soulless monster trapped in a suit of enchanted armor and compelled into violent service for a commercial institution through torturous psychic conditioning." -- Armifer
VAHLISSA
Re: TDP difference between MU and NMU's
03/30/2009 03:50 PM CDT
>I applaud you for finding a way to train that well for a moon mage, but i still have trouble disabling at-level creatures, let alone not run into mana problems, when there's too many for my moon mage to handle unless my magic skills severely outclass the creature.
Stealth and RF is your friend in this scenario with the occasional panic button with an inviso ring.
Stealth and RF is your friend in this scenario with the occasional panic button with an inviso ring.
VEE-REX
Re: TDP difference between MU and NMU's
03/30/2009 04:00 PM CDT
>>Umm... and? I never said the barb will be working on 22 skills, I meant to suggest that the barb can easily work on more than 5. Are you saying you have trouble keeping 6 weapons at muddled between offhand skill, offhand weapon, main weapon, swapping a main, multi, and parrying?
lol It'll be easier to keep all of that stuff locked for a Moon Mage. It's easier to keep tert learning mind locked than primary learning.
There's no difference between offhand skill and offhand weapon. They're the same thing. So essentially you have offhand, main weapon, secondary weapon, multi, and parry. A Moon Mage can easily work those as well. They may not learn them as fast as Barbarians, but keep in mind they still have 4 magic primary skills that can be mind locked that Barbarians have NO access to.
>>Its called Berserks, Roars, and Dancers, in comparison to Seer's Sense and Cage of Light
It has already been explained to you how a MM can survive just as well in combat.
>>I applaud you for finding a way to train that well for a moon mage, but i still have trouble disabling at-level creatures, let alone not run into mana problems, when there's too many for my moon mage to handle unless my magic skills severely outclass the creature.
I don't mean this as an insult, but your characters aren't really trained efficiently. Your inefficiently trained characters don't set the standard for everyone else.
Vinjince
lol It'll be easier to keep all of that stuff locked for a Moon Mage. It's easier to keep tert learning mind locked than primary learning.
There's no difference between offhand skill and offhand weapon. They're the same thing. So essentially you have offhand, main weapon, secondary weapon, multi, and parry. A Moon Mage can easily work those as well. They may not learn them as fast as Barbarians, but keep in mind they still have 4 magic primary skills that can be mind locked that Barbarians have NO access to.
>>Its called Berserks, Roars, and Dancers, in comparison to Seer's Sense and Cage of Light
It has already been explained to you how a MM can survive just as well in combat.
>>I applaud you for finding a way to train that well for a moon mage, but i still have trouble disabling at-level creatures, let alone not run into mana problems, when there's too many for my moon mage to handle unless my magic skills severely outclass the creature.
I don't mean this as an insult, but your characters aren't really trained efficiently. Your inefficiently trained characters don't set the standard for everyone else.
Vinjince
BONECHEWER
Re: TDP difference between MU and NMU's
03/30/2009 04:30 PM CDT
>There's no difference between offhand skill and offhand weapon. They're the same thing. So essentially you have offhand, main weapon, secondary weapon, multi, and parry.
Huh? I'm talking about wielding HE on the main hand (main weapon skill), ME on the offhand (offhand weapon skill + offhand skill), and while your main hand will lock sooner than your offhand because of the way exp splits, you can still swap that out for an HB or what have you.
> A Moon Mage can easily work those as well. They may not learn them as fast as Barbarians, but keep in mind they still have 4 magic primary skills that can be mind locked that Barbarians have NO access to.
And keep in mind in swarmy areas like eels, beisswurms, vines/creepers, gryphons, and upwards, you gain WAY more combat exp than it is required to lock. WIth weapons, you can switch out. With parrying/shield/armor at tert rate for Moon Mages? all of it is gone to waste.
>I don't mean this as an insult, but your characters aren't really trained efficiently. Your inefficiently trained characters don't set the standard for everyone else.
I'll admit to my oversight on stealth is king and that i have the tendency to not try as hard in that regard for other chars when I already have a thief, and this may skew my perceptions. However, I still suspect the downtime of stealthing your way out of combat after combat skills are locked really adds up when compared against a barbarian that can perpetually maintain berserk stone +whatever else and hunt indefinitely with impunity.
"When I grow up, I want to be a soulless monster trapped in a suit of enchanted armor and compelled into violent service for a commercial institution through torturous psychic conditioning." -- Armifer
Huh? I'm talking about wielding HE on the main hand (main weapon skill), ME on the offhand (offhand weapon skill + offhand skill), and while your main hand will lock sooner than your offhand because of the way exp splits, you can still swap that out for an HB or what have you.
> A Moon Mage can easily work those as well. They may not learn them as fast as Barbarians, but keep in mind they still have 4 magic primary skills that can be mind locked that Barbarians have NO access to.
And keep in mind in swarmy areas like eels, beisswurms, vines/creepers, gryphons, and upwards, you gain WAY more combat exp than it is required to lock. WIth weapons, you can switch out. With parrying/shield/armor at tert rate for Moon Mages? all of it is gone to waste.
>I don't mean this as an insult, but your characters aren't really trained efficiently. Your inefficiently trained characters don't set the standard for everyone else.
I'll admit to my oversight on stealth is king and that i have the tendency to not try as hard in that regard for other chars when I already have a thief, and this may skew my perceptions. However, I still suspect the downtime of stealthing your way out of combat after combat skills are locked really adds up when compared against a barbarian that can perpetually maintain berserk stone +whatever else and hunt indefinitely with impunity.
"When I grow up, I want to be a soulless monster trapped in a suit of enchanted armor and compelled into violent service for a commercial institution through torturous psychic conditioning." -- Armifer
VAHLISSA
Re: TDP difference between MU and NMU's
03/30/2009 04:40 PM CDT
>>However, I still suspect the downtime of stealthing your way out of combat after combat skills are locked really adds up when compared against a barbarian that can perpetually maintain berserk stone +whatever else and hunt indefinitely with impunity.
Not sure if I understand this correctly but stealth is also very nice for ambushing and working just those weapon skills without flooding your mind from defenses that are already locked. I still use this method to lock ME. By the time my TM is locked I often find I don't need any more defenses for that session. Love the ambushing.
Not sure if I understand this correctly but stealth is also very nice for ambushing and working just those weapon skills without flooding your mind from defenses that are already locked. I still use this method to lock ME. By the time my TM is locked I often find I don't need any more defenses for that session. Love the ambushing.
VEE-REX
Re: TDP difference between MU and NMU's
03/30/2009 05:25 PM CDT
BONECHEWER,
>>Huh? I'm talking about wielding HE on the main hand (main weapon skill), ME on the offhand (offhand weapon skill + offhand skill), and while your main hand will lock sooner than your offhand because of the way exp splits, you can still swap that out for an HB or what have you.
Eh, fair enough. I hardly see how this is anything more than a tiny advantage that doesn't affect overall tdp gain greatly.
>>And keep in mind in swarmy areas like eels, beisswurms, vines/creepers, gryphons, and upwards, you gain WAY more combat exp than it is required to lock. WIth weapons, you can switch out. With parrying/shield/armor at tert rate for Moon Mages? all of it is gone to waste.
It seems like you got it in your head that a MM can't switch out weapons like a Barbarian can. The only difference besides duel wielding (which isn't anything to brag about) between weapon primary and tertiary is learning rates.
You can switch out weapons, you can train defenses, train stealths, train appraisal, as well as a ton of other skills. Stop trying to act like there won't be anything to do and that time will be wasted after magic and defenses are mind locked. This frame of mind is probably why your characters are not trained efficiently.
>>I still suspect the downtime of stealthing your way out of combat after combat skills are locked really adds up when compared against a barbarian that can perpetually maintain berserk stone +whatever else and hunt indefinitely with impunity.
Berserking Stone has its downsides. It's a useful training tool early on for a Barb but its drawbacks become annoying later on and don't help with open rolls. Being unable to retreat is why I don't use it, and it doesn't give a better overall defensive boost than Badger depending on how your character is trained.
Vinjince
>>Huh? I'm talking about wielding HE on the main hand (main weapon skill), ME on the offhand (offhand weapon skill + offhand skill), and while your main hand will lock sooner than your offhand because of the way exp splits, you can still swap that out for an HB or what have you.
Eh, fair enough. I hardly see how this is anything more than a tiny advantage that doesn't affect overall tdp gain greatly.
>>And keep in mind in swarmy areas like eels, beisswurms, vines/creepers, gryphons, and upwards, you gain WAY more combat exp than it is required to lock. WIth weapons, you can switch out. With parrying/shield/armor at tert rate for Moon Mages? all of it is gone to waste.
It seems like you got it in your head that a MM can't switch out weapons like a Barbarian can. The only difference besides duel wielding (which isn't anything to brag about) between weapon primary and tertiary is learning rates.
You can switch out weapons, you can train defenses, train stealths, train appraisal, as well as a ton of other skills. Stop trying to act like there won't be anything to do and that time will be wasted after magic and defenses are mind locked. This frame of mind is probably why your characters are not trained efficiently.
>>I still suspect the downtime of stealthing your way out of combat after combat skills are locked really adds up when compared against a barbarian that can perpetually maintain berserk stone +whatever else and hunt indefinitely with impunity.
Berserking Stone has its downsides. It's a useful training tool early on for a Barb but its drawbacks become annoying later on and don't help with open rolls. Being unable to retreat is why I don't use it, and it doesn't give a better overall defensive boost than Badger depending on how your character is trained.
Vinjince
MARTINCOTY77
Re: TDP difference between MU and NMU's
03/30/2009 06:47 PM CDT
BONECHEWER.
Have you ever trained all 22 weapons? I have. It is extremely ineffecient, to the point that it has probably held me back 30 circles. It is not a TDP factory.
>>multi consistently locked even at primary rate
You cannot keep multi locked and keep 5 weapons locked. You can't even keep 5 weapons locked except in a few select hunting areas. While I was working on all weapons, I trained 5 at a time, and My weapons normally looked something like this.
1. Mind Locked
2. Mind Locked
3. Bewildered
4. Perplexing
5. Perplexing
Approximately....and it all depends on the weapon, try throwing HX or Sling Or Staff Sling in there and it was much worse than that...
In fact when working 5 weapons constantly like that, guess what? Armor, evasion, Parry, Shield is NOT locked either. Mostly because the time you capped 4-8 weapons in the area you have OUTGROWN the area OR you are killing them fast enough that they don't get to attack that often. The next 16-18 weapons your getting JUST weapon experience. Like I said, it is extremely ineffecient.
>>Eh, fair enough. I hardly see how this is anything more than a tiny advantage that doesn't affect overall tdp gain greatly.
Vin, this is still not an advantage, Offhand gets a 70/30. It would make just as much sense to just lock your main (in your right hand) and then switch it out.
Vote DR as TOP MUD: http://www.topmudsites.com/vote-cemm.html
Have you ever trained all 22 weapons? I have. It is extremely ineffecient, to the point that it has probably held me back 30 circles. It is not a TDP factory.
>>multi consistently locked even at primary rate
You cannot keep multi locked and keep 5 weapons locked. You can't even keep 5 weapons locked except in a few select hunting areas. While I was working on all weapons, I trained 5 at a time, and My weapons normally looked something like this.
1. Mind Locked
2. Mind Locked
3. Bewildered
4. Perplexing
5. Perplexing
Approximately....and it all depends on the weapon, try throwing HX or Sling Or Staff Sling in there and it was much worse than that...
In fact when working 5 weapons constantly like that, guess what? Armor, evasion, Parry, Shield is NOT locked either. Mostly because the time you capped 4-8 weapons in the area you have OUTGROWN the area OR you are killing them fast enough that they don't get to attack that often. The next 16-18 weapons your getting JUST weapon experience. Like I said, it is extremely ineffecient.
>>Eh, fair enough. I hardly see how this is anything more than a tiny advantage that doesn't affect overall tdp gain greatly.
Vin, this is still not an advantage, Offhand gets a 70/30. It would make just as much sense to just lock your main (in your right hand) and then switch it out.
Vote DR as TOP MUD: http://www.topmudsites.com/vote-cemm.html
JMF90
Re: TDP difference between MU and NMU's
03/30/2009 06:53 PM CDT
A few points. Weapon primary means mindstate protection for shield/parry/armor. This is significant. And while a mage may keep 4 magics running smoothly in combat, a barbarian should have a least 3 weapon skills moving when training a single weapon.
Also, dragon dance gives a huge stat boost which makes this somewhat a moot point. Stacked khris to some extent as well.
Also, in addition to the stat boost, dances like cobra and dragon directly boost your OF which allows faster weapon training on top of what your boosted stats allow.
There's a difference between training to climb the creature ladder as fast as possible and training for TDPs. If you want safer/easier advancement, you pause in your advancement and broaden your knowledge. Mages are somewhat forced to slow their advancement due to tertiary skills. Having everything secondary or higher gives barbarians the benefit of ignoring this option. So if you compare stats/tdps in a given hunting area, of course the mage is going to have higher stats. It also probably took them longer to get where you are.
When it comes to TDPs/time, combat is king, even over magic. The rewards for combat are allowed to be higher than other systems because of the risk factor. Plus, all defensive skills are passive gain, which really allows you to boost tdp gain (piecemeal armor is one example here). This passive gain can be boosted further by the mindstate protection via multi-opponent, which again gives barbarians a nice advantage.
Another thing to keep in mind in the magic vs combat argument is that, magic skills aren't freebies forever. At higher ranks, MO and PP take significant time to lock, and TM is limited by spawn and the desire to train defenses, as well as the hard cap which is frequently an issue due to relying on tert defenses. Granted WMs sort of get a free pass on TM thanks to CL, but as a high level moon mage, I can only count on keeping two magic skills moving well right now. TM will move nicely again once my MO catches up. PP and MD take too much time to be worth it.
From a pure skillset argument, rangers should theoretically be the best off. They are given access to magic in addition to having all combat skills secondary or better. Plus hiding and stalking have very generous exp rewards, especially with snipe. Plus they get inherent boosts to training survival skills that can be boosted further via spells.
But in the end, I think it has a lot to do with how you train your character (except for traders). My thief has more tdps per level and more tdps per day of training because I put more effort into the character and I was more knowledgeable about mechanics in general by the time I made the thief.
To recap: barbarians do tend to have less TDPs when compared to other guilds hunting the same creatures. When compared over time, they probably lose out slightly as well, but I think this is largely made up via dances. Training for TDPs can make up for this somewhat, but it isn't a good strategy to climb the PvP ladder (unless you plan to sandbag).
Also, dragon dance gives a huge stat boost which makes this somewhat a moot point. Stacked khris to some extent as well.
Also, in addition to the stat boost, dances like cobra and dragon directly boost your OF which allows faster weapon training on top of what your boosted stats allow.
There's a difference between training to climb the creature ladder as fast as possible and training for TDPs. If you want safer/easier advancement, you pause in your advancement and broaden your knowledge. Mages are somewhat forced to slow their advancement due to tertiary skills. Having everything secondary or higher gives barbarians the benefit of ignoring this option. So if you compare stats/tdps in a given hunting area, of course the mage is going to have higher stats. It also probably took them longer to get where you are.
When it comes to TDPs/time, combat is king, even over magic. The rewards for combat are allowed to be higher than other systems because of the risk factor. Plus, all defensive skills are passive gain, which really allows you to boost tdp gain (piecemeal armor is one example here). This passive gain can be boosted further by the mindstate protection via multi-opponent, which again gives barbarians a nice advantage.
Another thing to keep in mind in the magic vs combat argument is that, magic skills aren't freebies forever. At higher ranks, MO and PP take significant time to lock, and TM is limited by spawn and the desire to train defenses, as well as the hard cap which is frequently an issue due to relying on tert defenses. Granted WMs sort of get a free pass on TM thanks to CL, but as a high level moon mage, I can only count on keeping two magic skills moving well right now. TM will move nicely again once my MO catches up. PP and MD take too much time to be worth it.
From a pure skillset argument, rangers should theoretically be the best off. They are given access to magic in addition to having all combat skills secondary or better. Plus hiding and stalking have very generous exp rewards, especially with snipe. Plus they get inherent boosts to training survival skills that can be boosted further via spells.
But in the end, I think it has a lot to do with how you train your character (except for traders). My thief has more tdps per level and more tdps per day of training because I put more effort into the character and I was more knowledgeable about mechanics in general by the time I made the thief.
To recap: barbarians do tend to have less TDPs when compared to other guilds hunting the same creatures. When compared over time, they probably lose out slightly as well, but I think this is largely made up via dances. Training for TDPs can make up for this somewhat, but it isn't a good strategy to climb the PvP ladder (unless you plan to sandbag).
VEE-REX
Re: TDP difference between MU and NMU's
03/30/2009 07:05 PM CDT
Good post, JMF90.
Couple things:
>>When it comes to TDPs/time, combat is king, even over magic.
This is why I said that running tests based off circle is misleading. The TF guy's moon mage doesn't even go in combat, so comparing his tdps to the barbarian's won't get us anywhere. The MM was just not trained efficiently.
>>To recap: barbarians do tend to have less TDPs when compared to other guilds hunting the same creatures. When compared over time, they probably lose out slightly as well, but I think this is largely made up via dances.
This is similar to the conclusion I came up with. As far as being made up completely by Dragon and other dances, it can be argued. That's another topic though.
Vinjince
Couple things:
>>When it comes to TDPs/time, combat is king, even over magic.
This is why I said that running tests based off circle is misleading. The TF guy's moon mage doesn't even go in combat, so comparing his tdps to the barbarian's won't get us anywhere. The MM was just not trained efficiently.
>>To recap: barbarians do tend to have less TDPs when compared to other guilds hunting the same creatures. When compared over time, they probably lose out slightly as well, but I think this is largely made up via dances.
This is similar to the conclusion I came up with. As far as being made up completely by Dragon and other dances, it can be argued. That's another topic though.
Vinjince
MACCABEE1
Re: TDP difference between MU and NMU's
03/30/2009 07:53 PM CDT
<<You can switch out weapons, you can train defenses, train stealths, train appraisal, as well as a ton of other skills. Stop trying to act like there won't be anything to do and that time will be wasted after magic and defenses are mind locked. This frame of mind is probably why your characters are not trained efficiently.>>
the problem I've encountered, isn't mindlock - its what comes AFTER mindlock which is a bad mind state <anything over fluid>, mostly due to multi-opponent locking before everything else. Do you guys just "sleep" it off to remain in combat or what?
the problem I've encountered, isn't mindlock - its what comes AFTER mindlock which is a bad mind state <anything over fluid>, mostly due to multi-opponent locking before everything else. Do you guys just "sleep" it off to remain in combat or what?
VAHLISSA
Re: TDP difference between MU and NMU's
03/30/2009 08:02 PM CDT
There was some recent changes made to MO maybe like a year or less ago. You use to have to have a third behind you in order to learn it. The changes made it so you could learn MO with just two depending on your ranks and the level of the creature.
I still use block stop to get one behind me with just two creatures. If I do this right away I seem to have better luck to lock MO and not going into an undesired mind state. The other technique I've used it to disable one so I am getting less attacks overall but still have the benefits of one creature behind me.
I still use block stop to get one behind me with just two creatures. If I do this right away I seem to have better luck to lock MO and not going into an undesired mind state. The other technique I've used it to disable one so I am getting less attacks overall but still have the benefits of one creature behind me.
MARTINCOTY77
Re: TDP difference between MU and NMU's
03/30/2009 08:06 PM CDT
>>I still use block stop to get one behind me with just two creatures. If I do this right away I seem to have better luck to lock MO and not going into an undesired mind state. The other technique I've used it to disable one so I am getting less attacks overall but still have the benefits of one creature behind me. <<
Hmm...fairly certain block stop doesn't do anything for MO experience anymore.
Vote DR as TOP MUD: http://www.topmudsites.com/vote-cemm.html
Hmm...fairly certain block stop doesn't do anything for MO experience anymore.
Vote DR as TOP MUD: http://www.topmudsites.com/vote-cemm.html
VAHLISSA
Re: TDP difference between MU and NMU's
03/30/2009 08:08 PM CDT
Try it. I think you will be pleasantly surprised. It really depends on your ranks.
JMF90
Re: TDP difference between MU and NMU's
03/30/2009 08:19 PM CDT
>Try it. I think you will be pleasantly surprised. It really depends on your ranks.
Blue flowers also help. Fact.
Blue flowers also help. Fact.
DGUTHRIE2
Re: TDP difference between MU and NMU's
03/30/2009 09:30 PM CDT
>>It's not hard to understand. His Moon Mage is training a LOT less efficiently if he's not going to bother going into combat and keep 12+ skills mind locked. The numbers don't lie, man.<<
Vinjince, you are correct that my moonmage is not in combat, has never been in combat, and won't be in combat for quite some time, however, I would argue that the opposite is true. He is 111th because he's been completely efficient at training those skills that he needs to circle thus far.
Taking the time to train tertiary combat skills that do nothing toward furthering his circling is grossly inefficient in this case. While it's true that I can lock MORE skills in combat, most of those skills will have nothing to do with circling. I don't need shield, parry, weapons, or armor. I've been able to train lores and required survivals easily without being in combat, so I've eliminated risk and maximized efficiency. At least, that's the way I see it.
________________________________________
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.
- Albert Einstein
Vinjince, you are correct that my moonmage is not in combat, has never been in combat, and won't be in combat for quite some time, however, I would argue that the opposite is true. He is 111th because he's been completely efficient at training those skills that he needs to circle thus far.
Taking the time to train tertiary combat skills that do nothing toward furthering his circling is grossly inefficient in this case. While it's true that I can lock MORE skills in combat, most of those skills will have nothing to do with circling. I don't need shield, parry, weapons, or armor. I've been able to train lores and required survivals easily without being in combat, so I've eliminated risk and maximized efficiency. At least, that's the way I see it.
________________________________________
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.
- Albert Einstein
VEE-REX
Re: TDP difference between MU and NMU's
03/30/2009 09:30 PM CDT
>>Do you guys just "sleep" it off to remain in combat or what?
I have to use sleep sometimes. My evasion and armor lock super quickly. It's mainly because my character has low defenses but high reflex that allows him to hunt in places that should probably be a lot tougher for him.
Vinjince
I have to use sleep sometimes. My evasion and armor lock super quickly. It's mainly because my character has low defenses but high reflex that allows him to hunt in places that should probably be a lot tougher for him.
Vinjince
VEE-REX
Re: TDP difference between MU and NMU's
03/30/2009 09:32 PM CDT
>>Taking the time to train tertiary combat skills that do nothing toward furthering his circling is grossly inefficient in this case. While it's true that I can lock MORE skills in combat, most of those skills will have nothing to do with circling. I don't need shield, parry, weapons, or armor. I've been able to train lores and required survivals easily without being in combat, so I've eliminated risk and maximized efficiency. At least, that's the way I see it.
Nothing's wrong with that. But then you run into problems when you try to compare the tdp's gained to a Barbarian that spends a lot more time in combat.
Your MM's training habits are highly efficient for circling, but not highly efficient for TDPs.
Vinjince
Nothing's wrong with that. But then you run into problems when you try to compare the tdp's gained to a Barbarian that spends a lot more time in combat.
Your MM's training habits are highly efficient for circling, but not highly efficient for TDPs.
Vinjince
DGUTHRIE2
Re: TDP difference between MU and NMU's
03/30/2009 09:51 PM CDT
An interesting perspective Vinjince. Both of them have been circle monkeys to a degree, though with the barbarian I trained all lores and 4 of the 8 required survivals to 150th reqs before starting combat, leaving evasion, skinning, hiding, and stalking as the other 4 I would train in combat. I'm also training all 4 edges plus brawling for my 5 weapon requirements and will be dropping LE and ME once I'm finished in caracals so I can continue circling.
I would say that I've trained my moon mage more efficiently than the barbarian, simply because I've trained him to circle, while my methods with the barbarian have been somewhat inefficient because I have not trained to a strict circle requirement, but instead have chosen to keep his defenses well balanced and his weapons fairly even to this point.
Your point is taken, however, that the two are not really comparable due to circle disparities and other differences in my training methods. My barbarian is probably WAY overtrained for his circle, resulting in a relatively large number of total ranks, but a lower number of tdp's gained from those ranks because I've only got a handful of skills over 400, while my moonmage has 4 skills over 800, resulting in a lot more tdp's gained per rank.
________________________________________
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.
- Albert Einstein
I would say that I've trained my moon mage more efficiently than the barbarian, simply because I've trained him to circle, while my methods with the barbarian have been somewhat inefficient because I have not trained to a strict circle requirement, but instead have chosen to keep his defenses well balanced and his weapons fairly even to this point.
Your point is taken, however, that the two are not really comparable due to circle disparities and other differences in my training methods. My barbarian is probably WAY overtrained for his circle, resulting in a relatively large number of total ranks, but a lower number of tdp's gained from those ranks because I've only got a handful of skills over 400, while my moonmage has 4 skills over 800, resulting in a lot more tdp's gained per rank.
________________________________________
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.
- Albert Einstein
SUGARSNOUT
Re: TDP difference between MU and NMU's
03/30/2009 10:40 PM CDT
>My barbarian is probably WAY overtrained for his circle, resulting in a relatively large number of total ranks, but a lower number of tdp's gained from those ranks because I've only got a handful of skills over 400, while my moonmage has 4 skills over 800, resulting in a lot more tdp's gained per rank.
:(
Nothing wrong with that.
:(
Nothing wrong with that.
