>Im glad you brought up these points Drakuel. Many players including myself have felt as you have.
Just a tip: if you have to invoke the 'silent majority' it means you don't have a leg to stand on.
>But they should at least show the same level respect for mine and others opinions as paying customers if nothing else.
No opinions have been 'disrespected' here, as far as I've seen. People have been having a very civil back and forth conversation.
>gweth smashing as a temp stop gap
It was never a 'temp stop gap'. It was intended to be what it is; a method for players to moderate and police the gweth channels.
I'd like to point out, for those who seem to think rampant bullying happens with smashers, the crossing down drunk/necromancer always seems to have one. If you are so extremely afraid of being smashed, I'd urge you to consider why. I play without them most of the time, but even if you do get smashed, it's a matter of a few plat to go buy new ones. If you're continually smashed by the same person/group, without provocation, that can fall under harassment, and you should follow up on that with the GMs. If you're simply being smashed by random people, that means your behavior is considered unacceptable on the Gweth.
BADGOPHER
DR-EVIKE
Re: On being gwethsmashed.
05/29/2015 10:46 PM CDT
>I'd like to point out, for those who seem to think rampant bullying happens with smashers, the crossing down drunk/necromancer always seems to have one. If you are so extremely afraid of being smashed, I'd urge you to consider why. I play without them most of the time, but even if you do get smashed, it's a matter of a few plat to go buy new ones. If you're continually smashed by the same person/group, without provocation, that can fall under harassment, and you should follow up on that with the GMs. If you're simply being smashed by random people, that means your behavior is considered unacceptable on the Gweth.
Just to touch on this, as a GM -- since we are like Santa -- Gwethsmashers are not used that often by players.
Far far too rarely, in my opinion actually.
~Evike
Just to touch on this, as a GM -- since we are like Santa -- Gwethsmashers are not used that often by players.
Far far too rarely, in my opinion actually.
~Evike
DR-ARMIFER
Re: On being gwethsmashed.
05/29/2015 10:52 PM CDT
>>Just to touch on this, as a GM -- since we are like Santa -- Gwethsmashers are not used that often by players.
When I made player-craftable gwethsmashers, I was required to hyper-message the gwethsmashers to on-line GMs. There are very few things and conditions you can do with a gwethsmasher that doesn't send a priority message to every GM on-line. For awhile, it actually e-mailed a few of us.
The result turned out to be way more boring than anyone imagined.
-Armifer
"Perinthia's astronomers are faced with a difficult choice. Either they must admit that all their calculations were wrong ... or else they must reveal that the order of the gods is reflected exactly in the city of monsters." - Calvino Italo
When I made player-craftable gwethsmashers, I was required to hyper-message the gwethsmashers to on-line GMs. There are very few things and conditions you can do with a gwethsmasher that doesn't send a priority message to every GM on-line. For awhile, it actually e-mailed a few of us.
The result turned out to be way more boring than anyone imagined.
-Armifer
"Perinthia's astronomers are faced with a difficult choice. Either they must admit that all their calculations were wrong ... or else they must reveal that the order of the gods is reflected exactly in the city of monsters." - Calvino Italo
NINEVAH1
Re: On being gwethsmashed.
05/29/2015 11:39 PM CDT
>>Just to touch on this, as a GM -- since we are like Santa -- Gwethsmashers are not used that often by players.
>>When I made player-craftable gwethsmashers, I was required to hyper-message the gwethsmashers to on-line GMs. There are very few things and conditions you can do with a gwethsmasher that doesn't send a priority message to every GM on-line. For awhile, it actually e-mailed a few of us.
>>The result turned out to be way more boring than anyone imagined.
It's not from lack of trying. I've offered 300 plat per charge for a smasher more than once, and I get crickets.
>>When I made player-craftable gwethsmashers, I was required to hyper-message the gwethsmashers to on-line GMs. There are very few things and conditions you can do with a gwethsmasher that doesn't send a priority message to every GM on-line. For awhile, it actually e-mailed a few of us.
>>The result turned out to be way more boring than anyone imagined.
It's not from lack of trying. I've offered 300 plat per charge for a smasher more than once, and I get crickets.
DRAKUEL
Re: On being gwethsmashed.
05/30/2015 08:39 AM CDT
I could only imagine it would be... My feedback was not intended to dismiss the need for it, more then it was to find another way to do it that is more fair and still hold to integrity of the system as a whole. With the use of a tuning gem for example...
attach gem to gweth. Tune gem toward person. You have tuned out the thoughts of said person. A crude example, but was a quick thought when I made the original feedback. A simple RP filter in thought, but as others pointed out perhaps not simple in reality.
As it is now it's supposed to police inappropriate behavior, but that doesn't work when it's a stat contest in charge. That means if you're the top dog you can be as inappropriate as you want...
As the board monitor has firmly stated it is not going anywhere so really this is just a mute point.
just for the record I respect all others feedback for or against it.
DR-PERSIDA
Re: On being gwethsmashed.
05/30/2015 09:13 AM CDT
>>As it is now it's supposed to police inappropriate behavior, but that doesn't work when it's a stat contest in charge. That means if you're the top dog you can be as inappropriate as you want...
That isn't strictly true.
For one thing, it's pretty near impossible to be the top dog. There are always other characters that are also pretty well off in the stat contests involved. If you find that you can't smash a particularly tough troublemaker, there are many, many other characters who would be more than willing to help you out, especially if you provide them with the gwethsmasher charge needed.
And the second check to this scenario are us as GMs. If you're seeing particularly inappropriate behavior on the gweths that is seeming to run unchecked, you can always issue a REPORT (please just one, not repeated ones in a short period of time), and any GM around will give the situation a look over then take action as appropriate. Even if no GMs are listed in WHO, there are often some of us lurking around in the shadows.
Gwethsmashers were implemented to allow the playerbase to have an active hand in in-game community communication management both in the IC and OOC sense, but them existing is not a statement that the GM staff have a totally hands off approach to the gweths on our end. We just can't catch everything, and if we really tried to constantly proactively monitor the gweth for any and all possible IC or OOC issues we wouldn't get much else done. Plus it would be pretty top down to an extent that staff really isn't interested in being. We want you all to have active ability to shape your community standards within the parameters of policy! Sometimes this will be a little messy, but its something that I certainly feel strongly about, and know that other staff members do as well.
While I wouldn't call requests for adjustments to any system a moot point, I will say that continuing on in a constructive fashion offering ideas for improvement is usually the better way to get your contributions considered seriously, especially when it's related to a system that is by and large doing exactly what it was designed to do, and has done so pretty successfully for over a decade now. People are often not civil or constructive in their expressed opinions regarding certain topics and sometimes like to rehash the same heated arguments, which is kind of part of why this folder even exists! I mean, hey, we're passionate about the game we love, which is great, but sometimes hinders conversations, too. Take that into account, and I think nobody will see anything bad in anyone offering suggestions to improve even the most well regarded of systems!
-Persida
That isn't strictly true.
For one thing, it's pretty near impossible to be the top dog. There are always other characters that are also pretty well off in the stat contests involved. If you find that you can't smash a particularly tough troublemaker, there are many, many other characters who would be more than willing to help you out, especially if you provide them with the gwethsmasher charge needed.
And the second check to this scenario are us as GMs. If you're seeing particularly inappropriate behavior on the gweths that is seeming to run unchecked, you can always issue a REPORT (please just one, not repeated ones in a short period of time), and any GM around will give the situation a look over then take action as appropriate. Even if no GMs are listed in WHO, there are often some of us lurking around in the shadows.
Gwethsmashers were implemented to allow the playerbase to have an active hand in in-game community communication management both in the IC and OOC sense, but them existing is not a statement that the GM staff have a totally hands off approach to the gweths on our end. We just can't catch everything, and if we really tried to constantly proactively monitor the gweth for any and all possible IC or OOC issues we wouldn't get much else done. Plus it would be pretty top down to an extent that staff really isn't interested in being. We want you all to have active ability to shape your community standards within the parameters of policy! Sometimes this will be a little messy, but its something that I certainly feel strongly about, and know that other staff members do as well.
While I wouldn't call requests for adjustments to any system a moot point, I will say that continuing on in a constructive fashion offering ideas for improvement is usually the better way to get your contributions considered seriously, especially when it's related to a system that is by and large doing exactly what it was designed to do, and has done so pretty successfully for over a decade now. People are often not civil or constructive in their expressed opinions regarding certain topics and sometimes like to rehash the same heated arguments, which is kind of part of why this folder even exists! I mean, hey, we're passionate about the game we love, which is great, but sometimes hinders conversations, too. Take that into account, and I think nobody will see anything bad in anyone offering suggestions to improve even the most well regarded of systems!
-Persida
DASLOW
Re: On being gwethsmashed.
05/30/2015 09:35 AM CDT
Just curious, do you guys get a report when a Gwethsmasher is successfully used, or any time it's used.
DR-PERSIDA
Re: On being gwethsmashed.
05/30/2015 10:54 AM CDT
>>Just curious, do you guys get a report when a Gwethsmasher is successfully used, or any time it's used.
We can see every attempted gwethsmashing, successful or not. And as Armifer said:
>>There are very few things and conditions you can do with a gwethsmasher that doesn't send a priority message to every GM on-line.
-Persida
We can see every attempted gwethsmashing, successful or not. And as Armifer said:
>>There are very few things and conditions you can do with a gwethsmasher that doesn't send a priority message to every GM on-line.
-Persida
JULIAN
Re: On being gwethsmashed.
06/01/2015 07:08 AM CDT
>>Far far too rarely, in my opinion actually.
I don't know about anyone else, but honestly, when I hear something I don't like on the gweth and ask myself "Is it worth burning a bunch of plats to give this person a time out for a little bit?" my answer is always no.
Mazrian
I don't know about anyone else, but honestly, when I hear something I don't like on the gweth and ask myself "Is it worth burning a bunch of plats to give this person a time out for a little bit?" my answer is always no.
Mazrian
PENDUS
Re: On being gwethsmashed.
06/01/2015 11:25 AM CDT
Most things don't annoy me on the gweth, but then someone uses an emoji or a LOL or a :chuckles: and I want to find them and poach them, but I then I remember it's not worth the consult.
RAISER
Re: On being gwethsmashed.
06/04/2015 04:12 AM CDT
>Most things don't annoy me on the gweth, but then someone uses an emoji or a LOL or a :chuckles: and I want to find them and poach them, but I then I remember it's not worth the consult.
This! Just because it's a text game doesn't mean we treat it like we're texting. If moonies could make smashers more often, I would definitely use mine way more. I mean WAAYYYY more. As it stands now, I only use mine when I get really really annoyed because I don't know when I'll be able to find another (there's waiting lists for them!).
DR-PERSIDA
Re: On being gwethsmashed.
06/04/2015 05:21 AM CDT
>>This! Just because it's a text game doesn't mean we treat it like we're texting. If moonies could make smashers more often, I would definitely use mine way more. I mean WAAYYYY more. As it stands now, I only use mine when I get really really annoyed because I don't know when I'll be able to find another (there's waiting lists for them!).
This is why I was surprised by the lack of serious fight over the perma-gwethsmasher at the last auction.
-Persida
This is why I was surprised by the lack of serious fight over the perma-gwethsmasher at the last auction.
-Persida
AMISH
Re: On being gwethsmashed.
06/04/2015 07:03 PM CDT
I think gweth smashers are inherently dangerous. I understand if you're repeatedly smashed its harassment and you can contact staff. I understand that game staff are contacted if you sneeze around a gweth smasher.
But allowing a player to dictate what another can say over the gweth simply because it violates their perspective of okay and not okay speech seems wrong to me.
I mean consider how many posts and supposed reports players have made about names they find OOC.
On the gweth espeacially now thats it global, people can and will be intimidated from using it by other players. Because some are literally social butterflies and just as fragile.
One smashing and they wont gweth again or even try to retaliate. Because they dont want the negative experience.
I was on this morning with over 200 other players and the gweths were stagnant. I dont know if its from fear of smashing but I do see many gweth messages complaining of being smashed.
Gweth Smashers arent going anywhere or atleast the mechanism isnt. But I dont feel we should be so hasty to allow a player the authority to police another based solely on their perspective and ranks.
Perhaps you can only smash someone you view as OOC after serving them a warning for being OOC, by thinking to them?
Perhaps a system where a certain amount of players have to vote for a person to be silenced? Or a player is given a caution and then suspended from their gweths from a time?
There hasta be a less confrontational way to give someone a chance to make the right choice, and make it clear to them its not just one persons opinion.
Thanks guys and girls
DR-ARMIFER
Re: On being gwethsmashed.
06/04/2015 08:09 PM CDT
>>But allowing a player to dictate what another can say over the gweth simply because it violates their perspective of okay and not okay speech seems wrong to me.
Why? They can dictate what you use the SAY verb to use as well, with even less buy in.
You're free to say anything allowed by policy on the gweth, and you are free to experience the consequences of saying it.
-Armifer
"Perinthia's astronomers are faced with a difficult choice. Either they must admit that all their calculations were wrong ... or else they must reveal that the order of the gods is reflected exactly in the city of monsters." - Calvino Italo
Why? They can dictate what you use the SAY verb to use as well, with even less buy in.
You're free to say anything allowed by policy on the gweth, and you are free to experience the consequences of saying it.
-Armifer
"Perinthia's astronomers are faced with a difficult choice. Either they must admit that all their calculations were wrong ... or else they must reveal that the order of the gods is reflected exactly in the city of monsters." - Calvino Italo
BADGOPHER
Re: On being gwethsmashed.
06/04/2015 08:49 PM CDT
>One smashing and they wont gweth again or even try to retaliate. Because they dont want the negative experience.
If someone is so emotionally fragile that one smash stops them from using the entire system, then I'd say they have no right to use it anyway, and are simply looking for the 'oh, pity me' attention.
Seriously, it's a couple seconds of inconvenience. You're out a few bucks, just go buy more gweths, and watch your language next time. There is zero downtime unless you're using the permanent gweths, and you still have the option of throwing on regular ones while the permanent ones cool down.
>I was on this morning with over 200 other players and the gweths were stagnant. I dont know if its from fear of smashing but I do see many gweth messages complaining of being smashed.
Confirmation bias; when you are convinced of a thing, you see it everywhere (aka when all you have is a hammer every problem looks like a nail).
>But I dont feel we should be so hasty to allow a player the authority to police another
The entire point of the smasher system is player based policing.
You can also kill players for thoughts, actions, or words.
You can thump players for less, and that's much more severe in effect.
>There hasta be a less confrontational way to give someone a chance to make the right choice, and make it clear to them its not just one persons opinion.
It is just one person's opinion. The mass of 'acceptable' is simply a composite of what all of the player base, as a whole, on average, finds within permissible bounds. But it comes down to a single person finding something ok/not, and acting on that. When hundreds of people make that choice, that's how we create 'public opinion'.
And frankly, confrontation isn't a bad thing. Being passive aggressive, hiding behind 'the group says...' and other means of deflection do no one any courtesy. If someone doesn't have the willingness to politely say 'I find your actions unacceptable' then they shouldn't.
Seriously, you're fretting over nothing. I've been smashed like 2 times. It's not something that happens every 10 seconds as the people scared of it seem to think.
If someone is so emotionally fragile that one smash stops them from using the entire system, then I'd say they have no right to use it anyway, and are simply looking for the 'oh, pity me' attention.
Seriously, it's a couple seconds of inconvenience. You're out a few bucks, just go buy more gweths, and watch your language next time. There is zero downtime unless you're using the permanent gweths, and you still have the option of throwing on regular ones while the permanent ones cool down.
>I was on this morning with over 200 other players and the gweths were stagnant. I dont know if its from fear of smashing but I do see many gweth messages complaining of being smashed.
Confirmation bias; when you are convinced of a thing, you see it everywhere (aka when all you have is a hammer every problem looks like a nail).
>But I dont feel we should be so hasty to allow a player the authority to police another
The entire point of the smasher system is player based policing.
You can also kill players for thoughts, actions, or words.
You can thump players for less, and that's much more severe in effect.
>There hasta be a less confrontational way to give someone a chance to make the right choice, and make it clear to them its not just one persons opinion.
It is just one person's opinion. The mass of 'acceptable' is simply a composite of what all of the player base, as a whole, on average, finds within permissible bounds. But it comes down to a single person finding something ok/not, and acting on that. When hundreds of people make that choice, that's how we create 'public opinion'.
And frankly, confrontation isn't a bad thing. Being passive aggressive, hiding behind 'the group says...' and other means of deflection do no one any courtesy. If someone doesn't have the willingness to politely say 'I find your actions unacceptable' then they shouldn't.
Seriously, you're fretting over nothing. I've been smashed like 2 times. It's not something that happens every 10 seconds as the people scared of it seem to think.
TEVESHSZAT
Re: On being gwethsmashed.
06/04/2015 10:35 PM CDT
>>Why? They can dictate what you use the SAY verb to use as well, with even less buy in.
I'm personally of the mindset that gwethsmashing would be a lot less bothersome for people conceptually if it worked like thump. Thump is great. Temporarily shuts someone annoying (whatever your definition of annoying is) up. Gwethsmashing makes someone have to go out and get/buy new gweths before they can use them again.
Have gwethsmashers just stop someone from using THINK for X amount of time, remove the timer Moon Mages have for making smashers, and let everyone go crazy.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
I'm personally of the mindset that gwethsmashing would be a lot less bothersome for people conceptually if it worked like thump. Thump is great. Temporarily shuts someone annoying (whatever your definition of annoying is) up. Gwethsmashing makes someone have to go out and get/buy new gweths before they can use them again.
Have gwethsmashers just stop someone from using THINK for X amount of time, remove the timer Moon Mages have for making smashers, and let everyone go crazy.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
ROBERTDH
Re: On being gwethsmashed.
06/05/2015 03:27 AM CDT
>I'm personally of the mindset that gwethsmashing would be a lot less bothersome for people conceptually if it worked like thump. Thump is great. Temporarily shuts someone annoying (whatever your definition of annoying is) up. Gwethsmashing makes someone have to go out and get/buy new gweths before they can use them again.
Oorrr... Thump could be changed to require you to go buy a new voicebox from a Bard. They could use the love.
>Forgive my snark, but welcome to the life of a warrior mage.
Oorrr... Thump could be changed to require you to go buy a new voicebox from a Bard. They could use the love.
>Forgive my snark, but welcome to the life of a warrior mage.
ILLIENA
Re: On being gwethsmashed.
06/05/2015 04:32 AM CDT
> Oorrr... Thump could be changed to require you to go buy a new voicebox from a Bard.
I think you meant Necro. Add it to the Shaping discipline, maybe.
I think you meant Necro. Add it to the Shaping discipline, maybe.
AMISH
Re: On being gwethsmashed.
06/05/2015 07:05 AM CDT
It might very well be a fret about nothing to some, and I respect that opinion. We are after all in the equine cemetery.
With thump you can whisper the person and talk to them before and after the thumping. And you dont destroy a bit of their property.
You can almost be polite with them if you so choose.
But in Dragonrealms where its literally all about interaction negating someones ability to interact until they go and purchase another set of gweths. To me personally seems a bit much.
If the mechanic operated more like a thump as some suggest and were just a nondestructive time out. That might be a more appropriate compromise.
New players offer new perspectives on the game which, even if you are a decade of experience and wisdom on game etiquette. We all vitally need.
I dont think authorizing one person to provide them a negative experience is the way we should go.
Because people either just stop interacting all together because they fear the experience repeating.
Or, they constantly gweth without any disregard. Daring someone to smash them again, again and again.
Thanks
THAYET
Re: On being gwethsmashed.
06/05/2015 07:51 AM CDT
>> I think you meant Necro. Add it to the Shaping discipline, maybe.
Yeeess, relevance!
What I'm taking from this is that there should probably be a separate method of gweththumping independent of smashers that simply prevents the use of THINK for anything from 30 minutes to an hour.
The range modifier should probably also go away for the smashing contest since the reason for it being implemented is now moot due to global gweths.
Thayet
Follow @thayelf on Twitter for absolutely nothing of any value whatsoever!
Yeeess, relevance!
What I'm taking from this is that there should probably be a separate method of gweththumping independent of smashers that simply prevents the use of THINK for anything from 30 minutes to an hour.
The range modifier should probably also go away for the smashing contest since the reason for it being implemented is now moot due to global gweths.
Thayet
Follow @thayelf on Twitter for absolutely nothing of any value whatsoever!
MYREK2
Re: On being gwethsmashed.
06/05/2015 11:36 AM CDT
>But in Dragonrealms where its literally all about interaction negating someones ability to interact until they go and purchase another set of gweths. To me personally seems a bit much.
It's not. Amish you seem very concerned about protecting some poor fragile imaginary victim of gweth smashing but a gwethsmasher only affects a single target. The hypothetical person who got smashed was affecting everyone in range with a gweth.
It's not. Amish you seem very concerned about protecting some poor fragile imaginary victim of gweth smashing but a gwethsmasher only affects a single target. The hypothetical person who got smashed was affecting everyone in range with a gweth.
DISCOTEQ21
Re: On being gwethsmashed.
06/05/2015 03:57 PM CDT
Barbarians need smashers.
Don't forget to vote for dragonrealms:
http://www.topmudsites.com/vote-DragonRealms.html
Don't forget to vote for dragonrealms:
http://www.topmudsites.com/vote-DragonRealms.html
TEVESHSZAT
Re: On being gwethsmashed.
06/05/2015 06:35 PM CDT
>>Barbarians need smashers.
Barbarians should THUMP people so hard they get a headache and can't gweth.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
Barbarians should THUMP people so hard they get a headache and can't gweth.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
