What is with warrior mage magic these days? I played DR back in the day, and was really excited to come back, but now find myself only frustrated. It used to be, if you learned a spell, you could CAST it. If you learned FB at 2nd circle, you could use it at second circle! If you cleverly planned your spell path to get lightning before 10th, you could cast it and rip the heck out of hogs, goblins, or whatever.

If you can't cast spells when you get them, then what is the point of spell slots? What is the point of spell progressions? Why not just make it so the only spells available are the boring first tier spells, since that's apparently all you can cast.

I feel like these are the changes that make it hard for people to come back, or new players to start, and isn't that what you want? It seems like every change is catered to those players who have played for a long time, and/or script all the time.

Here's the deal though, people don't want to HAVE to get to circle 20 before the game becomes fun. I'm at 8th circle now, after working as hard as I could to get that far in a week because I wanted elementalism, and if I still can't cast anything by 10th, I'll probably quit for good this time.

P.S. My buddy has a ranger, and he can cast every spell he's learned, even though he's only been getting attack spells. Are Ranger's better at magic than Warrior mages now? You'd think with the word mage....

First off.... the Spell Tiers page link seems broken...

But second; Yes, a spell tree. Spell tree = you should be able to cast the spells you learn.

As for the convoluted chart at the bottom, I'm assuming what I'd want to look at is the rank required? Rank in what skill? Or is it a combination? It's very vague...

Point being, you say it's "Skill" based, so why even have circles? Or why not make circling requirements much more difficult if it's clearly not reflective of ability. Spells are rewards for hard work in my opinion, a reward for achieving that next level. The current system steals that from players.

There IS a reason to not stick with the base spells;

It's called fun.

>It's called fun.

Doesn't sound like you're having that right now.

Honestly the people responding are giving you great advice. That game has changed a ton since I am guessing you left before. Listening and taking advice or researching on Elanthipedia is going to be a lot more helpful to you then complaining about it and pouting.


[20:11] Chatter[Arathael] Usually only get skill when it's successful.
[20:13] Chatter[Morpion] Thats why Arathael has 0.00 ranks in Getting Girls
[20:14] Chatter[Arathael] =(

But, again, respectfully, your complaint is that you want a spell before you have the skill to use it, and there was never a time in the game when this was really a thing.

Treat the spells as goals to reach, not things that should be yours because you want them now.

Fire Ball is advanced because now it basically casts Fire Shards on everything at the same range as the initial target. It's not uncommon for Fire Ball to hit 4 creatures a dozen or more times per cast.

- Starlear, Warrior Mage and Lieutenant of Ilithi's Crystal Vanguard -

ORBITAL303, I appreciate that explanation as well. I just wish somewhere in game it would let you know that. Especially using the new StormFront, with the spell window that pops up, you really don't get the warnings.

First off, I want to thank you for your feedback. There's certainly new hurdles out there with F2P bringing in new players, so we're getting a lot more people working up through the earlier circles than we usually have. I had a question, because there are supposed to be some mechanics to prevent people ending up in your situation. When you tried to learn these spells you can't cast did you get the warning from the Guildleader and have to choose the spell again? It would have looked like this:

Gauthus says, "I feel the Fire Ball spell is beyond your ability to use at this time. If you are certain of your decision, choose it again and it shall be yours. And remember, you were warned."

A spell's bare circle requirement and/or prereq spell requirement are not something we like to set too high, since we have a number of players that have primary skills well over their circle requirement, even at the early circles. It's a benefit and a drawback to having a skill based system, and currently we prefer to err on the side letting players with enough skill learn the spells they can cast, rather than requiring a player have all the skills they need to circle high enough to learn a spell.

ASGM Ricinus
Core, Logistics, Survival
Cleric Advocate

sigh
Thanks for all the feedback. I may keep struggling through... Can I ask one more thing? Orbital, you say 100 ranks, is that combined or total in one skill, primary or targetted? And where can I find spell specific info?

I will post as a suggestion... because stormfront is way better than web based.

Also, Feats exist for the various spell types and can help out with making them easier to cast as well.

- Starlear, Warrior Mage and Lieutenant of Ilithi's Crystal Vanguard -

Thank you absolon. I found the chart a little confusing/misleading, so this helps.... I tend to keep my primary and tm roughly the same, so we'll see if that helps....

I haven't played a low level warrior mage in a long time, but according to elanthipedia, you need about 80 ranks to be able to cast an advanced spell.

The spell tiers go like this: Intro -> Basic -> Advanced -> Esoteric.

There's a command that you may find useful as well. It's called DISCERN. You can DISCERN <spell name> and get a lot of information about the spell, including how much mana you can put into it.

See the part in bold below: You can type EXP RP HELP to figure out what the word names for skill levels mean. Practitioner is for ranks 50-99, experienced is for +30-39. So experienced practitioner is from ranks 80-89.

>discern fb
The Fire Ball spell launches a ball of fire at a target which explodes on impact. On its way to its destination it may do lesser damage to enemies or friends that are near to you or your foe. And of course, once it explodes many of the decimated bits will seek out foes that have yet to feel its warmth.

This is a targeted spell, which must be TARGETed at a specific opponent. This spell does fire and impact damage. It can be cast at other adventurers and at hostile creatures. It requires a minimum of fifteen mana streams, and can expand to a maximum of one hundred mana streams woven into it. To begin to be able to cast this spell, you will need to reach the rank of an experienced practitioner. By the time you have mastered this spell, you will be ranked as a master in your abilities as a caster. It requires the Targeted Magic skill to cast effectively. Before you can learn this spell, you must know one of Fire Shards or Elementalism. It will also cost two spell slots.

The spell requires at minimum 15 mana streams and you think you can reinforce it with 85 more, for a total of 100 streams.

All things being even, you should be able to cast Fireball (at full target, no bad environmental mods, the dice roll neutral or better) at 70 TM.

So, let's talk hardcore versus... softcore? Ew. Uh. Well, you know what I mean.

DragonRealms has a character development "arc" that literally lasts years. This may be daunting, but it's the nature of having an almost limitless potential for character growth. The magic system and the spells therein are designed to accommodate up to ~1200 ranks (which, honestly, isn't high enough, but that's a later problem).

In the grand scheme of things, we front load content. By 200 (out of ~1200) ranks in a skill you're able to cast any spell in your guild which is under the purview of that skill. By 80-90 you'll be casting the vast majority.

I sympathize with your situation, but I think this comes down to taking the long view. You don't need to be a hardcore play-12-hours-a-day person to get there, but you do have to accept that it's going to come in weeks and months instead of hours or days.

-Armifer
"Perinthia's astronomers are faced with a difficult choice. Either they must admit that all their calculations were wrong ... or else they must reveal that the order of the gods is reflected exactly in the city of monsters." - Calvino Italo

Awesome change!

- Starlear, Warrior Mage and Lieutenant of Ilithi's Crystal Vanguard -

>>Bobbygitr: If you can't cast spells when you get them, then what is the point of spell slots? What is the point of spell progressions? Why not just make it so the only spells available are the boring first tier spells, since that's apparently all you can cast.

You really have to use the spell tree and the summary chart at the bottom in tandem when choosing spells.

Most guilds' spell books have less elaborate spell slot progressions. (Previously, you may have had to take several spells that didn't really interest you just to get one awesome spell.) This leaves players with more freedom in their spell selection, but it also makes it easier to select spells that you lack the skill to cast. (The guildleader now warns you if you try to do this; GM Ricinus just improved on those mechanics.)


>>Bobbygitr: As for the convoluted chart at the bottom, I'm assuming what I'd want to look at is the rank required? Rank in what skill? Or is it a combination?

The information in the summary chart comes from the DISCERN output. (This is a very handy command that tells you what the spell does, its skill and mana requirements, and its prerequisites and slot costs.) This is how you read the summary chart at the bottom, using Fire Ball as an example.

The skill column indicates that Fire Ball uses the skill of targeted magic. (It's also an area of effect spell, which means you can cast it on every creature in the room that is at range.) At 80 ranks in the skill of targeted magic, you should be able to start casting the spell at its minimum prep of 16 mana. By the time you have 800 ranks in targeted magic, you should be able to cast the spell at its maximum prep of 100 mana. (You may be able to cast and cap spells a little earlier than the rank requirements indicate if your Primary Magic is higher than the relevant skill or if you have the relevant "Mastery" feat.) Fire Ball costs 2 slots to learn.

The type column has several possible values:

battle: These spells are designed to be used in battle, so they have shorter prep spells than standard spells (but may not last as long).

cyclic: Formerly known as held mana spells, these spells require a continual source of mana and will run until the mana runs out or you RELEASE the spell. (With the Raw Channeling feat, you can power cyclic spells directly from your attunement without having to periodically HARNESS mana or CHARGE cambrinth.)

ritual: Ritual spells use so much mana that they require the aid of a ritual focus, but they tend to last a very long time. They are not designed to be used in combat, since they have very long preps and require you to empty your hands before using the ritual focus.

standard: all other spells that don't fit in the above categories

metamagic/metaspell: You don't actually cast these spells. They are designed to automatically augment existing spells.

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<<metamagic/metaspell: You don't actually cast these spells. They are designed to automatically augment existing spells.

Slight (admittedly nit-picky) fix: With rare exception, you don't actually cast these spells. They are designed to automatically augment existing spells and abilities.

E.g. Flame Shockwave is an example of one which you 'cast' by activating it and while it is active your regular Shockwave is modified. And Spiteful Rebirth modifies the DEPART ability rather than another spell.

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