With 210 shield my paladin broke a shield in steeds, while backtraining, and hes using the mod strength armworn tower shield. With Elec, they effectively snapped those nice protection small armworn shields in 3 hits, he has over 160 shield. For a low-mid ranged creature it seems to me they hit a bit hard. Any chance you could tweak that down a bit or at least look into it. They break stuff easier than gargs. For something I can kill with my 18 weapon in a few hits, it seems a bit off that they can snap through my primary form of defense while hunting there. I appreciate any response. Back to making glue...


~Blood Wraith Elec, Elitist of Elanthia, an Elven Face Shooter

~I WILL RUIN THIS HOUSE WITH MY ANGER!

"Even In Your Darkest, Most Hellish Nightmares You Are Safe. But In Reality, Night Always Falls, And There In The Shadows, I Wait."

Well, I'd like to think that the fact they don't teach me armor or evasion would mean that I would have enough to deter an attack of that magnitude. Something about having the skill to use the armor, or evade better just from sheer knowledge about the item. I don't care that they damage things. Not at all. Its the magnitude to which they damage them. I can go to gargs and sit there all day and never have a thing of mine touched. I can sit in steeds for days straight and use all of the 18 different weapons I work and never have a single one damaged. But if I get hit once while holding that shield, even though I have more than enough to not learn there anymore, I will undoubtably break it in just a few hits. I could carry a larger shield, but being armor tert, hinderance is a pain. It's not like I have a spell to cast and lose my hinderence.

On a side note, these horses are undead, I would assume that they are more gaunt/decayed than a well groomed/fed draft horse. Yeah yeah assumptions are the mother I know. But still... BLARGLE

~Blood Wraith Elec, Elitist of Elanthia, an Elven Face Shooter

~I WILL RUIN THIS HOUSE WITH MY ANGER!

"Even In Your Darkest, Most Hellish Nightmares You Are Safe. But In Reality, Night Always Falls, And There In The Shadows, I Wait."

To a point, but thats a bit of realism that kills a lot of the fun from killing them. Yeah, they are big, they are war horses, but honestly if I can dance with 5 DS theres no reason 1 steed should beat my shield to crap in 3 hits and snap it in two.


~Blood Wraith Elec, Elitist of Elanthia, an Elven Face Shooter

~I WILL RUIN THIS HOUSE WITH MY ANGER!

"Even In Your Darkest, Most Hellish Nightmares You Are Safe. But In Reality, Night Always Falls, And There In The Shadows, I Wait."

Welcome to the joys of undead?


Thrall of Dergati,
Heroiklim Zortal

No. We are not missing the point. I have, if you pull your head out of the sand, been agreeing with you that the damage was excessive. I have personally attempted to point out both IG and RL reasons the horses might be doing excessive damage, but you seem more intent on being upset.

Try this: stage your shield skill down to 79-70%: often you are blocking 'too much' when this sort of damage occurs, and scaling down will put less stress on the shield.

Or, perhaps, and this might be difficult, take disposable shields. Reavers are excellent providers, as are kobolds (fallow fields). If you're as high above them as you say, a target shield should be more than enough to not get hit.

---

There will be options to pick from. There will rarely be a case where the NPC says, "Here is your sword, go have fun."
-Ssra

I use a target shield with elec, he has more than enough to not learn there. He is stanced evasion to 100, shield to 80, and when swarmed they break through the evasion and hit his shield, thus damaging it. Stancing it down further would only get me hit in those multi situations. I know HOW to train. That is not the issue. I don't mind swarms, I prefer them, I usually train with 1-7 critters in my room at any given time. I tend to only hunt things that swarm/hit hard. I like the challenge. Again, I know HOW to train, thats not the problem. The problem is, if these aren't going to to train, then they need to be less lethal at level. The problem is that they do an inordinate amount of armor damage for thier level. End of discussion.


~Blood Wraith Elec, Elitist of Elanthia, an Elven Face Shooter

~I WILL RUIN THIS HOUSE WITH MY ANGER!

"Even In Your Darkest, Most Hellish Nightmares You Are Safe. But In Reality, Night Always Falls, And There In The Shadows, I Wait."

>>The problem is, if these aren't going to to train, then they need to be less lethal at level. The problem is that they do an inordinate amount of armor damage for thier level. End of discussion.

And, again, this is pretty much standard for the undead.

Syralon
Cleric of Ushnish
"Don't underestimate Santa. He's got awesome lock picking skills!"

>So, unless you specifically can provide a reason why the steeds tear through shields so easily in my situations

See all of my posts, and Syralons.

>can fix it yourself

See suggestion for stancing shield down a few points.

>I'd appreciate it if you left it to the person the post was directed to

This is a general discussion forums. If you wish to communicate with a GM directly, send him an email. Furthermore, this is the wrong folder for such a discussion, as this was and still is a complaint.

I am reading and understanding your posts. I am trying my best to explain, as you have asked repeatedly, what, to the best of my knowledge, is happening in the game. You refuse to accept this, saying simply 'it should work X way'.

I will say this again, and ask that you try it: stance your shield down to 75% instead of 80 (or if you are using 100 switch to 100 evasion and 80 shield). Try it. I have seen it recomended for years. I cannot remember the reasoning offhand, or I would supply it.

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There will be options to pick from. There will rarely be a case where the NPC says, "Here is your sword, go have fun."
-Ssra

You know what? You don't want help. You just want to complaign. Rather than follow any advice or discuss this, you have simply repeated yourself over and over and told me my reasons weren't the way you want it to be, and you refuse to so much as attempt any suggested solution. Here's one then, and I think it'll really help. Get out. Go hunt something else. Simple.

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There will be options to pick from. There will rarely be a case where the NPC says, "Here is your sword, go have fun."
-Ssra

The only reason I've been 'trolling' is because you've been begging me to with your passive agressiveness. All you had to do was say 'Hey, I tried it, it didn't work'. And, frankly, I doubt you did, as you're still spouting about your 'game experience and knowledge'. But fine. Have fun.

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There will be options to pick from. There will rarely be a case where the NPC says, "Here is your sword, go have fun."
-Ssra

Yes. Of course. My entire goal in life is to make the, what, half dozen?, people reading this folder in a text based game think I am all knowing. The 13 forbid I was trying to help someone rather than get myself off on some sort of god complex. I do not know this person. I suggest what I think he should do. He restates his situation without adding new info or stating he attempted my solution. I repost original info in modified style, still attempting to convince him. Repeat. Now I am condescended and insulted. Wonderful.

---

There will be options to pick from. There will rarely be a case where the NPC says, "Here is your sword, go have fun."
-Ssra

>The problem is that they do an inordinate amount of armor damage for thier level.

They are undead. This is an undead 'feature'. Undead destroy armor, blow out chests, do nasty things far beyond the point where they train. I have a paladin about the same level as yours ... if I take him into fiends which don't teach him even his 8th and 9th weapons or lower, they can still kill him through double the armor/shield teaching cap if they get an 'undead hit' and blow out his chest.

>So, unless you specifically can provide a reason why the steeds tear through shields so easily in my situations

The reason is they are undead. Undead do things like this. A dark fiend could probably kill a 100th circle + paladin if the pallie stuck around long enough. Just the nature of the mob. All armed undead are like this, and effectively steeds are armed with good sized blunts from the type of hits they get. In large swarms, yes, any undead with serious impact weapons will rip up your shield. That's just the way they are. It's not a bug, its a 'feature' ... it's well documented and anyone who regularly hunts armed undead knows it.

>if these aren't going to to train, then they need to be less lethal at level.

Every single undead is dangerous far past its caps. Even souls can get lucky and really nail a chara far, far past their cap. Even a death squirrel can occasionally pop someone in the thirties/fourties. It is just the way undead are. It's called a 'leadership challenge', I think is the phrase in many code books.

A weapon in use requires regular sharpening in order to keep its edge. This restores the sharpness of the blade at the cost of making the blade more brittle. Repairing nicks and dings in a blade also reduce the blade's overall construction. Eventually, a blade is going to break. Repairing a blade is a temporary measure, as a repaired blade is still weaker than a newly forged weapon.

Dragonrealms allows for weapons to be restored to full working condition, and most weapons require practically no maintainence whatsoever. If your sword gets dinged, you can take to be repaired and it'll come back good as new - which means with care, unless you're fighting certain critters (such as war mammoths) which can snap any weapon on an unlucky hit, you could use the same sword for your entire DR career.

'Realistic' would involve much more maintainence required for weapons, and weapons would break and be rendered unusable far more frequently. Would that REALLY be more fun?

---

Orpheus: "You've been powering this machine with a forsaken child?"
Venture: "What? It's not like I used the whole thing."

"Unfortunately the "damage" system in place for weapons and armor is not only unrealistic, it is also very unplayable. It makes DR a not so fun game."

My character goes sometimes months at a time without repairing anything other than shields. I don't find it particularly unplayable and certainly I find it still fun.

"- Arm worn shields are practically useless. I buy the small ones and they break after 2-3 hits in anything that teaches past 100 ranks."

I wish they didn't get damaged so easily but I still find them far better than what we had before. If you find arm worn shield useless- then certainly don't use them. We all managed to not use them before they were available. Currently I pretty much cycle them through the repair shop- I wear one until its damaged, take it to the repair shop and drop it off, and pick up my repaired one at the same time. By the way my character has 170 ranks and mostly fights undead.

"- It's all or none. Either a weapon is so strong it only takes damage from the grave, and occasionally from like, rock guardians,,, or its so weak ANYTHING breaks it from trolls to goblins to undead."

Well I suppose this is somewhat true- but it also means that you have choices. You can choose to use a flimsy constructed weapon but it will get damaged easily. But all of my weapons except my quarterstaff essentially never get damaged(this means my axe, bastard sword, both of my mallets, claymore, mattock, hammer, throwing hammer- even my spears since I don't parry with them.

"- Sparring becomes very dangerous, as almost all spells cause instant armor damage. This can cost people actual plats depending on the base cost of the item (and altered items here in Plat cost a ton to repair)."

Well- this seems like an easily obstacle to overcome- if you want to spar- wear regular storebought armor. Most store bought armor is very reasonable to buy or repair.

"- There isn't enough levels of damage. It feels like 100%, 90%, 10% hehe. The progression from pristine to broken can happen in the course of one battle. Not very hero-like having that family sword last only one battle. Realistic perhaps, but not fun or playable."

Well I would agree- but I haven't had that happen much if ever. Some weapons such as QS and Spears are pretty flimsy construction but most will hold up well- and here in prime where forged are fairly accessable and affordable. I wonder why your weapons are breaking so easily?


I wonder if this is a bigger issue in platinum than prime? Other than creatures that are known to damage weapons and armor, I just haven't experienced it much.

Flavius

I'd like it if weapon damage worked as following:

1) Weapons/armor accumulate damage slowly with use.
2) Held/worn weapons/armor take a small damage hit when you die.
3) Held/worn weapons/armor take another small damage hit when entering a grave.
4) At some percentage of perfect condition (let's say 60%), the stats of the weapon/armor begin to degrade. This does not affect the weapons sturdiness (and therefore does not lead to an increasing vulnerability as is suffered now).
5) At some percentage of perfect condition (let's say 20%), the weapon/armor begins to give intermittent warning messaging on usage.
6) At 0% the item becomes unuseable and has a low percentage chance of being completely destroyed.
7) At anything over 0%, the item can be repaired as normal at the regular repair locations or (in the future) by a moderate practitioner of the appropriate creation skill.
8) At 0%, the item must be repaired by one of several special NPCs who regularly but intermittently visit the various repair shops or (in the future) by a master of the appropriate creation skill.

Keep in mind, however, that all weapon/armor damage is being looked at by Ssra for (while not a total rewrite) a definite reexamining of the frequency/effect of the damage done. I would expect lower-strength items to become more useable and higher-strength items to become less invulnerable.

Arcelebor

---

"Back off, man. I'm a scientist."
PSA - Sakhara's definition of RP (among other things) is erroneous
"I am a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar."

I like that Arcebelor.

---

I am a leaf on the wind. Watch me soar.

I don't read this folder very often anymore but I found this funny.

>- Arm worn shields are practically useless. I buy the small ones and they break after 2-3 hits in anything that teaches past 100 ranks.

You are certain that it imposes an insignificant maneuvering hinderance.

You are certain that the shield offers very poor to moderate protection.

You are certain that it could do:
low puncture damage
no slice damage
fair impact damage

You are certain that the shield is fairly balanced and is poorly suited to gaining extra attack power from your strength.

You are certain that the target shield is of average strength, and is in pristine condition.

10 minutes of combat and about 30 bristlebacks later.


You (nimbly balanced) are facing a bristle-backed peccary (1) at pole weapon range.
A bristle-backed peccary (1: solidly balanced) is advancing on you at pole weapon range.
A bristle-backed peccary (2: nimbly balanced) is flanking you at melee range.
A bristle-backed peccary (4: slightly off balance) is behind you at melee range.

Twohanded Edged: 313 80% mind lock
Shield Usage: 277 22% mind lock
Heavy Edged: 271 81% pondering
Twohanded Edged: 313 81% muddled
Medium Blunt: 211 74% muddled
Large Blunt: 209 28% muddled
Twohanded Blunt: 215 59% muddled
Halberds: 207 98% muddled

You are certain that the target shield is of average strength, and is in pristine condition.

Not only are you wrong...your like stupid wrong. Please don't spread false information arround. There are creatures that will break shields. Any shields. But to issue a blanket statement attesting that the shields are useless and aren't useful past 100 ranks is irresponsible.

Ternith Sjomah
___
Hard pressed on my right. My center is yielding. Impossible to maneuver. Situation excellent. I am attacking.
--Ferdinand Foch-- at the Battle of the Marne

I've been hunting in Steeds for a few days now. Gained about 10 ranks in shield (100-111), and they scuffed each of my armworn shields once: an oval ironwood, and the jester target one that I only use while training bow. Overall, not too bad.

I am sure that if I attempted to use my jester shield at melee it would prove practically useless. The oval shield works pretty well, however.

I think the problem is that once a shield gets hit once, it often gets broken rapidly. The first hit acts as a tipping point. The only reason I can think of is that shield durability is calculated modified by damage, rather than base construction. That seems like a bug to me.

I'm guessing that to use a target shield in peccs you need to stance shield down and let evasion absorb the brunt of the attack. Also, reflex must be high... I'm honestly surprised as well.

Weird. I gave up on the targets after breaking three (bleucs). Use the oval now.

---

(This Is Not) Mrrar

Out of Context Theatre
"Shaved head, but in a good way."--Ragran
"Their number is negligible and they are stupid."--Eisenhower
~~Join The Fallen!~~ (So you don't bother me >:o )

I've never had an issue with breaking equiptment in steeds, and being a 32nd ranger living in Ilithi, they're my primary prey. Only issue I have is when they break ME. Heh.

But for the record, much like the Adan'f in Ilithi... steeds are not undead. They are cursed. As it was said, there is a fine line between them, but for the record, they are NOT undead, and therefore, while having some of the bonuses, they also have some of the drawbacks. They are damaged by blessed weapons and the undead-killing magics such as Plague of Scavengers, but along the same lines they don't hit as hard as many pure undead critters (in my experience, others may disagree.)

That being the case, I live in Blackthorn canyon. They teach me quite well, and I have very few complaints.


You are wearing a leather cuff embroidered with the words "No Ranger stands alone."