They are

Time to trot out the old complaints of struggling undead hunters everywhere, yet again. I sincerely hope Dart's taking a look at these guys with the treasure re-write in the offing.

Aspiring undead hunting clerics don't have to take vows of poverty: our hunting options do it for us!

Tortured Souls -- soulstones only as treasure is obnoxious, especially given there have been times when soulstones have been sold at merchants. Move soulstones to a limited supply shop someplace (spit out one an hour or one a day for all I care) and give these guys some coins please. And boxes. Preferably boxes that teach from 25-45 in skill range.

Wind Hounds -- no treasure at all. Yeah, sure, they share spawn with reavers, and reavers are skinnable plus drop boxes/coins, but come on. Wind hounds could be skinnable to tooth or claw, based on their DESCRIBE "Much larger than normal canines, the wind hound stands as tall as a mature Halfling at the shoulder. Its body is an odd composition of howling winds the color of murky icewater, packed tightly into the vague form of a wolf hound with glowing red eyes. While its body may be nothing but violent air currents, its teeth and claws are real enough, and look willing and ready to rend anything that steps in its path!"

Thirded. The critter has a bite, so we should be able to take trophies.


Sometimes the key to happiness is not assuming it is locked in the first place- Ziggy

A journey of a thousand SMILES begins with a single step- Ziggy

Absolutely.


"militantly enforcing the overly rigid standards of you and your small collection of friends"

There are plenty of other options just about everywhere, and though the tortured soul loot may not be usable by clerics, it is usable by paladins. Just because I can hunt malchata, doesn't mean that I can pop the boxes, therefore that loot is useless to me, but I still hunt there.

If wind hounds nail you because of the multi, then train more multi, or train stealths to avoid multiple engagements. There are plenty of better options than reavers as well, so if you don't like a particular area, it's easy enough to find another one.


Life is too short to drink cheap beer.

The only other area that suffers this problem is, I believe, thugs with silverfish. The problem is not the multi. The problem is a swarm of low level opponents who do not teach mixed in with at-level critters who do. Ergo you take hits to MO, and possibly wounds, etc. for things which won't teach you.

Bloodwolves with bobcats
Marauders with wood trolls
Death Spirits with Dark Fiends

Do I need to go on?

If they are hurting you go elsewhere or train multi.

Brabs

<<Mixing different level critters into one area is not uncommon, either deal with the little creatures or find something else to hunt.

But do people like to hunt in mixed creature areas, especially when the creatures are of different levels? Seems like a bit of a waste of a hunting ground.

Nikpack

Climbing List:http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Climbing_skill
Swimming List:http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Swimming_skill

And while I am evil, I try to avoid being just plain mean.
-Z

<<But do people like to hunt in mixed creature areas, especially when the creatures are of different levels? Seems like a bit of a waste of a hunting ground.

Depends on what the creatures are.

Thugs/Silverfish never bothered me.
Vipers/Serpents amused me and made training tert or higher weapons easier.
Reavers/Hounds annoyed me, but that was because hounds are worthless, not because of the of the level difference. Change them to skinnable and it might be worth hunting up there, otherwise Bone Wolves/Zombies are better IMO.
Crags/Moths suck because of the spawn mechanic, never hunted them to train though.

Although we're starting to veer off into General Complaints rather than Undead. Probably should move this if we want to continue the discussion.

"There are plenty of other options just about everywhere, and though the tortured soul loot may not be usable by clerics, it is usable by paladins. Just because I can hunt malchata, doesn't mean that I can pop the boxes, therefore that loot is useless to me, but I still hunt there."

Of course there are plenty of other options- but not plenty of undead options in that range. The point of the original post was to suggest giving treasure to these non-treasure dropping creatures. Tortured Souls are a decent hunting option for clerics- and one of the very few noncorporeal undead that clerics have a clear advantage with- and they effectively drop no treasure. I thought the original poster had a good point- though frankly I think they could leave the rare soul stone in there and just add normal treasure. Clerics should not get penalized for hunting undead.

"If wind hounds nail you because of the multi, then train more multi, or train stealths to avoid multiple engagements. There are plenty of better options than reavers as well, so if you don't like a particular area, it's easy enough to find another one."

Again, you missed the point of the original poster- give wind hounds treasure or make them skinnable. It was great that wind hounds were changed to be cursed creatures, so clerics could take advantage of our undead spells against them, but clerics(and everyone else) should not be penalized for hunting undead. With Harm Evil, a cleric can probably take out wind hounds fast enough for MO not to be a huge issue- but there is no reward for doing so.

The issue of mixing lower and higher lever creatures is a more general issue, but in regards to the issue of having any creature that is huntable have some form of treasure is pretty basic. I would go further and say that undead should pay more, not less than most creatures, because undead have additional resistances(additional resistance against all magic except holy, noncorporeal need blessed weapons, almost immediate balance regaining) and are generally less desirable to hunt than mundane creatures.



"militantly enforcing the overly rigid standards of you and your small collection of friends"

yeah- I even went and looked at the Beastiary and saw ghouls. That means there is One other option and maybe they have improved but there was a reason I never bothered to hunt ghouls. Looking at the Beastiary I count about 19 creatures that are approximately at the level of Souls, 2 of which are 'evil', and Souls are the only ones of those 19 that have no real treasure/skins.

Not that whether souls have treasure or not affects my playing in any manner. But I remember those days, and it sure would have been nice to actually make some coin while getting that experience.



"militantly enforcing the overly rigid standards of you and your small collection of friends"

My biggest complaint about wind hounds, which prompted my original post, has nothing to do with multi or how difficult wind hounds may or may not make hunting reavers (they don't make reavers difficult for me, but thanks for caring).

Wind hounds don't drop loot. You can't skin them to acquire loot. They just suck air. Or they blow. Har. Wind puns.

If I wanted to just grind out ranks, great. But hey, I'd like to make money too. And add insult to injury, if you have enough hounds on you, a reaver will stop advancing because of numbers of enemy on you and just leave the room. Not cool. But at least I'm training MO like a good girl, right? :snort:

As for souls, yep, again, hurray -- they don't drop loot except for soulstones. And those are so rare it's hardly even worth mentioning. That floor of Dunshade Manor is basically only (very briefly) populated by people passing through on their way to the upper stories where the undead with loot reside. Some fresh (un)life would do the place some good.

After all, isn't that the point of making suggestions? The hope for improvement? I sincerely doubt adding some paltry skinnable fang or claw to wind hounds and a few copper and/or boxes to souls is going to break the game. And we're all well aware of what the alternatives are for hunting at lower ranges.

But I'm still allowed to suggest improvements! :p