Jokey title aside, I decided to take a test instance tour through some creatures with special attacks, to gather some (admittedly-flawed) data and general impressions. I set my stance for all three defenses lower and lower until the creature started occasionally hitting me with its normal attacks. Then I raised my stances a bit at a time, until the creature could only very very rarely hit me with its normal attack. Then I waited to see what the special attack would do.

I tried to choose creatures whose special attacks don't seem to consist solely of SvS, due to the problems inherent in testing SvS, even in test with respec. Instead I set my stats to straight 20s for the lower level creatures, and straight 50s for the 'higher level' creatures.

Here's the character:

http://elanthiprofiles.com/character/jNd

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Grey Clay Soldiers

So these guys managed to hit me even before I stanced down or did anything to my stats, resulting in a leg bleeder, but it seemed anomalous. (Still...) After stancing down and arranging my stats, this occurred:

A grey clay soldier takes a clay orb from its belt and throws it hard to the ground, shattering it into a thousand pieces that go flying!

A grey clay fragment flies directly at you! It lodges firmly in your abdomen!

Your body feels at full strength.

Your spirit feels full of life.

You have deep cuts across the abdomen.

Bleeding

Area Rate

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

abdomen light

You have a grey clay fragment lodged firmly into your abdomen.

And then right after I tended the shard out...

* A grey clay soldier sweeps low at you. You badly fail to parry with a simple parry stick.

The longsword lands a good hit that shreds away skin and exposes the muscles of the abdomen, lightly stunning you.

You drop a grey clay fragment.

* A grey clay soldier chops a longsword at you. You attempt to evade.

The longsword lands a good strike that shreds away skin and exposes the muscles of the abdomen, lightly stunning you.

This is a hunt-ending situation, I would have to return to get healed and probably not return to this area if I had an alternative, because one bad roll like this means I have to leave.

Spice level: xxxxx (5/5)

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Tightwads / Skinflints / Etc

* A troublesome tightwad thrusts a bone-inlaid cane at you. You evade.

A shifty-eyed skinflint snaps a bronze coin at you!

The coin smacks you dead-on! The bronze coin bounces away and is lost.

You are stunned!

S>

* A pugnacious pinchfist sweeps low at you. You barely block with a round sipar.

>

A troublesome tightwad snaps a bronze coin at you!

The coin smacks you dead-on! The bronze coin bounces away and is lost.

You are stunned!

S>

* A shifty-eyed skinflint sidesteps and bashes at you. You attempt to dodge.

The cane lands a light hit to your chest.

S>

A pugnacious pinchfist snaps a silver coin at you!

The coin smacks you dead-on! The silver coin bounces away and is lost.

You are stunned!

S>

* A miserly moneygrubber thrusts a brass-inlaid cane at you. You badly fail to parry with a simple parry stick.

The cane lands a light hit to your left eye.

S>

A shifty-eyed skinflint snaps a bronze coin at you!

The coin smacks you dead-on! The bronze coin bounces away and is lost.

You are stunned!

S>

* A troublesome tightwad thrusts a bone-inlaid cane at you. You barely fail to block with round sipar.

The cane lands a light hit to your right arm.

You slowly tip over and fall down.

Again, the only way they are hitting me is if the special hits, they can't otherwise hit me. This one isn't too bad, but it does seem possible to end up chain stunned, which is frustrating and can lead to death when the creature proper has no hope of hitting you.

spice level: ooxxx (3/5)

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Aesry Steps

I collapsed from fatigue going down some stairs, I feel personally attacked.

spice level: xxxxxx (6/5)

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Nipoh Oshu

So for these I was just waiting for some to spawn so I could begin calibrating and...

Scalding steam swirls over you scalding you painfully!

A roiling steam cloud dissipates away.

Your body feels at full strength.

Your spirit feels full of life.

You are slightly fatigued.

You have some minor abrasions to the head, some minor abrasions to the neck, some minor abrasions to the right leg, some minor abrasions to the left leg, cuts and bruises about the right hand, cuts and bruises about the left hand, some minor abrasions to the right eye, some minor abrasions to the left eye.

Yikes! This is with my full skill. And yes, I was fully healed before that happened.

spice level xxxxx (5/5)

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Retch Fiends

These are just gross. Whoever made them should feel bad because ugh. ;D Setting that aside...

Stanced so that their mundane attacks never hit, I am still getting pretty constantly lit up by their specials, like so:

A retch fiend stretches out its clawed arms, gapes open its dislocated jaw and begins to shriek at you!

A gurgling sound emanates from the a retch fiend just before a writhing white mass erupts from its maw and flies directly at you!

The foul mass lands a glancing strike to your chest!

You gag uncontrollably!

Roundtime: 9 sec. [ed note: ouchu]

A retch fiend raises its face to the sky and begins to snort loudly. It then quickly lowers its gaze hacks a congealed lump at you!

The phlegm lands a good hit to your left arm!

A retch maggot lodges in your body!

You feel a stabbing pain as the retch maggot engorges itself upon your flesh. [ed note: barf]

Roundtime: 3 seconds.

A retch fiend raises its face to the sky and begins to snort loudly. It then quickly lowers its gaze hacks a congealed lump at you!

The phlegm lands a light hit to your abdomen!

>

You feel a stabbing pain as the retch maggot engorges itself upon your flesh.

Roundtime: 3 seconds.

I think I speak for everyone on earth when I say, essentially D: D: D:

Setting aside the messaging, to me the rub here would be to ensure that all those special attacks and constant spamming of them, is teaching, I can't actually test that, but I know it has been a problem in some cases in the past. I am also concerned by the large amount of RT generated by these attacks, I hope there is some protection built in to prevent RT-locking people with this stuff. Also, ugh.

spice level: oxxxx (4/5)

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The Ice Road

Woman vs. Environment, an Interlude

One traversal of the Ice Road at full speed:

Your body feels very beat up.

Your spirit feels full of life.

You have a cracked skull with deep slashes, deep slashes across the left arm, a broken right leg with gaping holes, minor swelling and bruising in the abdomen compounded by deep cuts across the abdomen.

Bleeding

Area Rate

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

head very bad

left arm light

right leg heavy

abdomen light

inside head slight

inside r. leg light

>prep regen 10
theoden.jpg
You have no power here!

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Sun Vultures

So this is cheating since they're old school, but I just wanted to share the joy of sun vultures with anyone who hasn't yet experienced them.

With my full skill:

The vulture's eyes begin to glow a brillant gold as it turns to you!

You turn your head from the glow, but are unable to totally block out the blinding heat.

You are stunned by the flash of light!

Then if you kill one...

The vulture's eyes begin to glow a brillant gold as it turns to you!

You stand mesmerized by the fierce beauty of the radiant light as it streams forth from the vulture and burns into your skull.

Your right eye is hurt badly!

Your left eye is hurt badly!

You are stunned by the flash of light!

Your body feels slightly battered.

Your spirit feels full of life.

You have a bruised, swollen and bleeding right eye, a bruised, swollen and bleeding left eye, slight numbness in your fingers and toes.

Bleeding

Area Rate

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

right eye slight

left eye slight

You're stunned!

I should have listened to the gate guard...

You are forced back from the gate by a powerful, unseen hand.

A voice erupts from inside the gate, directed towards you.

"Beyond my guard is a vile darkness, a doom. I will not let you go unprepared. Seek protection, sister."

spice level: xxxxx (6/5)

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Forest Gryphons

To be fair, these teach me evasion! In that it will go to dabbling and never, never get past that, and yet...

A silver-tipped mature forest gryphon rears itself on its haunches and flaps its wings. Heavy gusts of wind buffet and swirl around you.

Failing to leap in time, you get twisted about in the winds, losing your balance and falling to the ground!

I was then mildy smacked around, but this is, I think, a pretty good special attack. It adds complication and requires me to be alert, but it doesn't totally ruin my day. What does ruin my day, and the reason I don't hunt these, is the flying, but that's a topic for another post.

spice level oooxx (2/5)

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Conclusions

1. A lot of special attacks seem "overpowered" compared to the strength of the creature. I worry that the 'specialness' of the attack mechanic, especially compared with changes to the combat system, can result in creatures with special attacks that are stronger than "intended."

1a. Indeed, comparing the 'ranks' used for a creature special attack to the 'ranks' used for normal combat attacks may be an apples to oranges comparison, because unless the two are passing through the same system, what 100 ranks means for a special attack may not have an easily discernible relationship to what 100 ranks mean for a standard attack.

1b. Given 1a, this (I think) can also mean that creature appraisals / level comparisons are misleading, because unless I am mistaken you can't appraise a creature to see that you are fine if it's just trying to bite you to death, but if it looks you in the eye, you will turn into a pillar of salt. It also can make for frustration when trying to find a new hunting area, as it can seem like it's going to be fine, then end up really, really not fine.

2. While I ran out of time / desire to evaluate more creatures, it did seem clear to me that not all special attacks are using the same system. So there's both inconsistency between the special attack system and the vanilla combat system, and the special attack system and other creature special attacks. See: Sun Vultures, probably a good many of the really old school creatures.

3. Some special attacks are manageable, and some are not. Given creature A with a manageable special attack and creature B with an unmanageable one, all things being equal, players will go for that sweet sweet optimal strategy of creature A. And it's important to keep in mind that you have to consider the impact the attack will have on the hunting session. Special attacks that force the end of the hunting session for a player who is otherwise well-positioned to hunt the creature are not great for a creature that is meant to be hunted daily. Creatures that are truly special -- event creatures, invasion creatures, boss / lair creatures can definitely delve into the realm of the truly special special attack and still be fun.

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I enjoyed the gryphon knockdown attack -- it meant that I had to be alert, and respond to my sudden meeting with the ground. It was like a nice jalapeno, and not a ghost chile. I could totally get messed up by this attack, but it's not a for sure day ruiner, and I have a good chance to recover from it if I'm on my toes.

Other special attacks I like:

* Armadillo webs
* Lava Drake perc debuff
* Reasonable poisons
* Amusing things like the skunk spray

Future Work

Just kidding. There is no real future work, except by anyone else who wants to throw their two dokoras in. I should emphasize, this post isn't about any specific creature, as you can see by my linked character, I'm nowhere near end game and am not in a position to really be worrying about that stuff yet. But some of the mentions of creature special attacks did get me thinking about this in a more general way, so I hope this could be the jumping off point for a cordial discussion or a conversation about why Sun Vultures are the worst, dang them to heck.

-- Qihhth

Love all the work put in. Also FWIW, my experience with TM-using creatures is that they are also very punishing. When I was hunting atik'ets, I had to keep up LW constantly, which was a huge drain on my poor secondary mana. And if I let it drop, I was lit up immediately.

The real issue with special attacks, in my opinion, is that there's no reward for fighting such a "special" creature. 99% of people are going to pass it by for the non-special creature that teaches in the same range. This might be resolved with much increased EXP and/or loot. If either of these seem too rewarding, perhaps the rewards could be limited to the first X minutes of fighting, or the first X creatures.

I may be the only person who loved the Aesry stairs when they came out. I got to learn Athletics (well, Climbing) as I moved around while I lived there, and I could see myself getting better and better at climbing speed over time. That said, Aesry is a ghost town now and the stairs probably don't help.


- Navesi

The First Land Herald -- Zoluren's newspaper. https://elanthipedia.play.net/The_First_Land_Herald

<<I also agree the Aesry steps inside town are evil. The ones outside of town going all the way between Aesry and the docks are fine, and you can make the entire trip without needing to rest even with low stamina. But for some reason, the ones inside of town are insanely punishing. They're like a boss mode for stairs.

<<I may be the only person who loved the Aesry stairs when they came out. I got to learn Athletics (well, Climbing) as I moved around while I lived there, and I could see myself getting better and better at climbing speed over time. That said, Aesry is a ghost town now and the stairs probably don't help.

I went and tested the stairs with one of my characters to get a better idea of the differences between in town and out of town. These tests are with 25 stamina and 251 athletics.

The stairs outside of town drain 5% of the fatigue bar with each stair climbed. Going all the way from the main city to the dock and back drained my fatigue fully, but only just barely needing a slight rest before the last step. This is 16 sets of stairs in each direction for a total of 32 sets of stairs and they're quite easily handled. I don't have a problem with these stairs at all, since you're usually not doing the full trip like that and it works effectively as a time gate on travel. Doing the trip from one end to the other did get me to roughly 3/34 for experience.

The stairs inside of town, however, drain 30% of the fatigue bar. That's 6 times the amount and just climbing 3 sets of stairs forced me to rest. They also take longer to climb than the ones outside of town and I learned less experience from these stairs, never getting past 1/34 because of needing to wait far more often. Examples of things I tried to do, but couldn't without resting:
-Traveling from the airship to the bank and back. This is made even worse because it requires multiple rests which causes you to miss the airship. This is 6 sets of stairs needing at least 2 rests, three if you're unlucky with regeneration pulse timing.
-Traveling from the west gate to the furrier and then to the bank. This is 4 sets of stairs and is doable if you start with 100% fatigue and get lucky with a regeneration pulse before the last set of steps. But in practical terms it's usually impossible without needing a rest because you usually arrive at the gate after a hunting trip with less than full fatigue due to the stairs outside of town.

Short version: The stairs within the city of Aesry need tuning down. The stairs outside of town are fine.

Very fascinating.

Can you conjecture why the leeches native to Elanthia require exactly ten seconds to remove, whether a complete neophyte or a botanist and surgeon at the same time?

Love the work!