Xala'shar tier 2/3/4 special attacks way overpowered 11/30/2017 04:54 PM CST


Can the xala'shar tier 2-4 special attacks be evaluated on how we can defend against them and tuned to their appropriate ranks? Xala'shar tier 1 (magus/thralls) is always packed and all the rest of the tiers are always empty because there basically un-huntable. The work is already done for these hunting areas it would be awesome to see them utilized.
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Re: Xala'shar tier 2/3/4 special attacks way overpowered 11/30/2017 05:31 PM CST


>>Can special attacks be evaluated on how we can defend against them and tuned to their appropriate ranks?

FTFY.

Special attacks are horribly broken across the board. I'd love to see them fixed. There's lots of creatures that get skipped because of this issue and it's a waste.
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Re: Xala'shar tier 2/3/4 special attacks way overpowered 12/02/2017 08:23 AM CST
>Special attacks are horribly broken across the board. I'd love to see them fixed. There's lots of creatures that get skipped because of this issue and it's a waste.

We've been complaining about special attacks since I started playing. Given the staffing shortages, please just turn off all special attacks until a review can take place that puts all critter abilities on core combat.

~Hunter Hanryu
>I did not sit down and said "Screw the Rangers, I will cancel all development for them and bake cookies instead."~Armifer
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Re: Xala'shar tier 2/3/4 special attacks way overpowered 12/03/2017 12:32 AM CST
> Given the staffing shortages, please just turn off all special attacks until a review can take place that puts all critter abilities on core combat.

This make make a certain amount of sense in the short term, for higher level critters, because there's a fundamental shortage of choices. But I'm nervous about turning the abilities off entirely. Why? Because, honestly, I like hard hunting areas. I just wish there were more reasons to go there. In fact, it's the very lethality of hunting in hard areas in GS4 that makes the combat there so much fun, even though it's simpler. It's easy for them to do this, though, since there aren't SO MANY things that need to be done by the character in combat.

My suggestion, which I've made before, is not to remove these abilities but rather to provide increasing levels of bonus experience (essentially RPA's) for hunting difficult critters. Perhaps it could be accomplished via the critter attaching a flag to the character when engaging that decays over the course of a couple of minutes, to ensure it's not abused. When each experience pulse happens, it processes that pulse with the bonus experience if that flag is attached.

Different factors that make a critter difficult to could stack to provide a more powerful bonus.

For example:

0 - Standard critter. Experience operates as normal.
+1 or more - Special attacks, with more than one point given if the attacks bypass normal checks.
+1 - Critter casts debilitation spells.
+1 - Critter casts TM spells.
+1 - Highly resistant or immune to a form of damage.
+1 - Creature equires a bless to hit.
+1 - Unskinnable creature.
+1 - Hunting area is a pain to use for whatever reason (underwater, hard to get to, unmappable maze, etc)
+1 - Hunting area is mixed with different types of critters with a significant difference of skill.

Each area could have these factors added up and an RPA-like bonus granted, the strength of which would be determined by the total.

For example, I'd point s'sugi malchata as:
+1 cast fireball
+2 cast sandstorms which improve their balance, pulls people from hiding, and stuns them, and cast sand webs
+1 cannot be knocked over
+1 are in a mixed area with the much lower retan dolomars
+0 You could make a case for the hunting area being a pain, but I don't think it quite rises to the level of adding points.

This would point them as 5 in difficulty, a significantly more difficult challenge than normal. Hunters here would get a significant bonus to experience.

I wouldn't mind seeing loot scaling as well, but if I were implementing it I'd do experience first and see how much of a shift it created in hunting habits. I'd know that I would gladly seek out harder hunting areas for the exp gain. Heck, if this was implemented properly, it might create actual demand for difficult areas instead of everyone clustering around the easiest to kill critters.

- Saragos
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Re: Xala'shar tier 2/3/4 special attacks way overpowered 12/03/2017 07:03 AM CST
>This make make a certain amount of sense in the short term, for higher level critters, because there's a fundamental shortage of choices. But I'm nervous about turning the abilities off entirely. Why? Because, honestly, I like hard hunting areas.

Just to hammer the point I was trying to make (not to think you missed my point Saragos), I absolutely believe that challenging critters should exit in DR. I just want all creature special attacks to undergo a review because while challenging can be fun, few things make a skill-based game more un-fun for me than bad mechanics that misuse skills. The review is needed because a lot has changed in DR since some of these mechanics were released (heck some might be pre DR2.0!) both in terms of actual skills/abilities available and in terms of design philosophy. I understand that a full review like this takes crazy amounts of time and that GM time is scarce.

It is only because of the combination of GM scarcity and sheer number of underutilized resources that I am advocating for a temporary suspension of special attacks. GM-Lyneya suggested I ask about the feasibility of my proposal here so a GM with combat system knowledge could hopefully respond.

~Hunter Hanryu
>I did not sit down and said "Screw the Rangers, I will cancel all development for them and bake cookies instead."~Armifer
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Re: Xala'shar tier 2/3/4 special attacks way overpowered 12/03/2017 07:59 AM CST

There's a difference between "hard hunting areas" and "impossible to hunt at or near level because of laughably broken special attacks". I'm all for a challenge, but there's some areas that are just hilariously broken (looking at you, shalswars) that would otherwise be a great area.
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Re: Xala'shar tier 2/3/4 special attacks way overpowered 12/03/2017 10:33 AM CST


I'm undecided. On one hand, I like the idea of making more areas usable. On the other hand, doesn't this just make everything the same, further trivializing PvE. This feels one step removed from just turning off the max caps of all creatures and making them all flex.

> Each area could have these factors added up and an RPA-like bonus granted, the strength of which would be determined by the total.

This makes more sense. Increase the rewards with increased risk. It's how hunting areas work in general. Harder creatures have higher caps and teach better. Creatures with special attacks should be classified as "harder" with better teaching ranges.

That's of course assuming all of this isn't intentional. Limited hunting areas with exceptionally hard creatures for your level could be a way of artificially gating progress.
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Re: Xala'shar tier 2/3/4 special attacks way overpowered 12/04/2017 09:07 AM CST


I can't agree with this strongly enough. If there are finite development resources, it seems like a great way to "release" a bunch of much needed "new" hunting areas by simply making the existing ones that are never touched viable by switching off special attacks until they can be reviewed and tuned.
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