Cave trolls are a pretty good alternative around the 270s, except for Stealth. My Stealth is 272, and I could not get off dabbling. I typically train by hiding and ambushing, with DALU and MISD up. I thought maybe the debilitation was making it too easy, but dropping both spells didn't help. During the same time period I tested, I took Staves (274) from 3 to 19.
I also tried just hiding and waiting to see how long it took them to find me. It took maybe 10 minutes. So they aren't COMPLETELY blind, but I assume they are blind enough that I can't learn from them? It's unfortunate because they would otherwise fill a nice Zoluren gap.
I will try out muscular firecats next, but I heard that they have very little spawn. Any other advice for a Zoluren creature in this range would be appreciated. I may do geni but I could use some advice on something to skin first.
PRIMEQ
BADGOPHER
Re: Cave Trolls and Stealth
04/21/2015 02:10 PM CDT
Someone please correct me since I'm vastly sleep deprived, but I think each critter has a separate perception (effectively) skill, which has nothing to do with their combat skills.
In most cases the two sets align, but not always. Goblins, for example, used to teach hiding up to like 70 or 100 ranks because they had super perception. Maybe these guys could just have their perception increased?
Oh! It's also indoors so maybe you're getting a hiding boost effective from darkness in the rooms?
In most cases the two sets align, but not always. Goblins, for example, used to teach hiding up to like 70 or 100 ranks because they had super perception. Maybe these guys could just have their perception increased?
Oh! It's also indoors so maybe you're getting a hiding boost effective from darkness in the rooms?
VOLCANUS
Re: Cave Trolls and Stealth
04/21/2015 03:12 PM CDT
> Someone please correct me since I'm vastly sleep deprived, but I think each critter has a separate perception (effectively) skill, which has nothing to do with their combat skills.
I find this to be true across multiple skills. Guardians took my weapons to 260ish, but my TM significantly slowed down around 220 and debilitation around 240.
PRIMEQ
Re: Cave Trolls and Stealth
04/21/2015 03:25 PM CDT
A quick update. Muscular firecat spawn was totally fine, but they beat me up FAST, so I'm clearly not ready for them yet. My plan is to eke it out in the Temple of Ushnish a bit longer and then go to geni for just long enough to make it in firecats.
>>Oh! It's also indoors so maybe you're getting a hiding boost effective from darkness in the rooms?
I wasn't aware this was a thing. For what it's worth, the rooms are not "dark" in that you don't need a light source to see.
>>Someone please correct me since I'm vastly sleep deprived, but I think each critter has a separate perception (effectively) skill
It would seem so in this case. I was just surprised it was so profoundly different. Everything else appraised at training "rather well" or "acceptably".
In terms of strengthening the Zoluren ladder, I would recommend increasing their perception. In particular, I would imagine they'd be an attractive option for Thieves given their box dropping, but I imagine they'd want the Stealth training too.
>>Oh! It's also indoors so maybe you're getting a hiding boost effective from darkness in the rooms?
I wasn't aware this was a thing. For what it's worth, the rooms are not "dark" in that you don't need a light source to see.
>>Someone please correct me since I'm vastly sleep deprived, but I think each critter has a separate perception (effectively) skill
It would seem so in this case. I was just surprised it was so profoundly different. Everything else appraised at training "rather well" or "acceptably".
In terms of strengthening the Zoluren ladder, I would recommend increasing their perception. In particular, I would imagine they'd be an attractive option for Thieves given their box dropping, but I imagine they'd want the Stealth training too.
FLINT-TIPPED
Re: Cave Trolls and Stealth
04/21/2015 03:59 PM CDT
I wouldn't expect a creature that lives it's life in a cave to have particularly good eyesight. It's a good thing that a mob doesn't teach every skill optimally.
Vote:
http://www.topmudsites.com/vote-DragonRealms.html
Vote:
http://www.topmudsites.com/vote-DragonRealms.html
PRIMEQ
Re: Cave Trolls and Stealth
04/21/2015 04:54 PM CDT
>>It's a good thing that a mob doesn't teach every skill optimally.
While I agree, I'm looking at the Zoluren hunting ladder from the perspective of closing gaps that F2P players might find unreasonable. Considering their ladder is severely restricted, it might be more time effective to patch up certain already-existing critters rather than create new ones.
That said, this skill range IS doable, it's just a time when you have to juggle a little. Do you want to give up Stealth or Skinning? I'm just pointing out the Stealth issue in case a) it isn't intentional or b) the GMs decide that they want to make the ladder a little more friendly at this point.
In particular I brought it up because they seem like prime backstabbing/box targets, yet don't train Stealth, and that seemed off to me. Of course, there are also geni in the same range.
While I agree, I'm looking at the Zoluren hunting ladder from the perspective of closing gaps that F2P players might find unreasonable. Considering their ladder is severely restricted, it might be more time effective to patch up certain already-existing critters rather than create new ones.
That said, this skill range IS doable, it's just a time when you have to juggle a little. Do you want to give up Stealth or Skinning? I'm just pointing out the Stealth issue in case a) it isn't intentional or b) the GMs decide that they want to make the ladder a little more friendly at this point.
In particular I brought it up because they seem like prime backstabbing/box targets, yet don't train Stealth, and that seemed off to me. Of course, there are also geni in the same range.
SUNNFIRE
Re: Cave Trolls and Stealth
04/30/2015 03:54 PM CDT
I have the exact same problem in cave trolls.
I also completely disagree with creature not training in the same general levels for all skills. I can see some skills being higher, or them being particularly good at doing something and getting a bonus to that skill, but if they are supposed to be training for the 100-200 rung of the skill ladder, that's what they should train. Otherwise you have A. Weird gaps in the training ladders for certain skills, and B. People having to do weird back training in areas that should be for other characters attempting to actually train there.
I also completely disagree with creature not training in the same general levels for all skills. I can see some skills being higher, or them being particularly good at doing something and getting a bonus to that skill, but if they are supposed to be training for the 100-200 rung of the skill ladder, that's what they should train. Otherwise you have A. Weird gaps in the training ladders for certain skills, and B. People having to do weird back training in areas that should be for other characters attempting to actually train there.
PRIMEQ
Re: Cave Trolls and Stealth
04/30/2015 04:19 PM CDT
Part of the challenge of creature training is finding one that works well for you. If they all trained everything perfectly, there would be no challenge. Sometimes you have to decide between different options. For example, training in one particular province vs. skipping stealth vs. skipping skinning.
The reason I brought it up was because the F2P players don't have the option of moving provinces, so I wanted to point out that their choices are pretty highly limited here. We generally don't want challenges to becomes so difficult they're unreasonable.
The reason I brought it up was because the F2P players don't have the option of moving provinces, so I wanted to point out that their choices are pretty highly limited here. We generally don't want challenges to becomes so difficult they're unreasonable.
