What are you using for a pack? I know it fits in a standard crossing backpack. I believe it will fit in the scabbard but not the sheath sold at the crossing general store, but its been a long time since I checked, so I could be remembering wrong.

Ahh. Swap it out for a sturdy backpack ASP - their cheap, easy to get, and much better then the starting character manager packs, if not as good as some of the other packs you can get. I put one on the east room rack in the paladin's guild earlier today - check there if you want a free one.

Blech. I thought this was in the Heavy folder, not 2 handed folder, pardon.

I believe Wolf Clan has a harness a 2HE will fit in.

Just for the record, the standard 28 stone g/s bastard swords have more balance than suitedness, and as such if you are close to a RT reduction, you're better off training agility over strength to reach it.


__

It is now.


________
"Just an observation, but you do not seem to know what you are talking about, and the things you say seem generally unintelligent."

>>It is now.

>Huh?

CAROLINT is referring to the troubles with grinding lately and is entirely wrong. The bastard sword from Steel Claw Clan will not be worth that money if you can find someone selling a forged bastard sword for less money. The forged bastard sword won't be as incredibly better as they were before, but they will not be crap like some of the doomsayers would have you believe.

---

Fuquois

<<CAROLINT is referring to the troubles with grinding lately

Yes.



<<and is entirely wrong

No.


Bastard Sword from Struan's Weapons:

HE - L/H/F F/F
2HE - L/G/M F/R
47 stones, Mod Strong.


A forged bastard sword (at most reasonably weights) off the anvil will come with Heavy Slice in HE and Great Slice in 2HE. A 28 stone bastard sword that's well made will give you decent stats, a 36 stoner will be a bit more lacking in balance. Now, going back to Silvex's question of whether Struan's bastard sword is worth 15 platinum dokoras vs. the (a) 100 platinum kronars you'll pay for a G/S or H/S bastard sword now or (b) the 20 platinum kronars you'll pay for a l/h/l f/f l/g/l r/f 28 stone bastard sword (if that's still possible), my answer is, "It is now."

________
"Just an observation, but you do not seem to know what you are talking about, and the things you say seem generally unintelligent."

<<A forged bastard sword (at most reasonably weights) off the anvil will come with Heavy Slice in HE and Great Slice in 2HE. A 28 stone bastard sword that's well made will give you decent stats, a 36 stoner will be a bit more lacking in balance. Now, going back to Silvex's question of whether Struan's bastard sword is worth 15 platinum dokoras vs. the (a) 100 platinum kronars you'll pay for a G/S or H/S bastard sword now or (b) the 20 platinum kronars you'll pay for a l/h/l f/f l/g/l r/f 28 stone bastard sword (if that's still possible), my answer is, "It is now."

I personally would still go with the new forged bastard sword because it has less weight and isn't a whole lot more money. If you have the strength to wield the 47 stones, then you could probably still get one forged near that weight that would be better than store bought.

162360 doks ~ 22 plat kronars

A lot of people can't handle the heavier bastard swords in the first place.

f/f and f/r off the pound, especially around that weight, looks right to me anyway but is probably on the low end of fair for balance.

Only thing I'm not sure on is how the impact matches up to the SCC bastie.

I am --- Navak

>A forged bastard sword (at most reasonably weights) off the anvil will come with Heavy Slice in HE and Great Slice in 2HE. A 28 stone bastard sword that's well made will give you decent stats, a 36 stoner will be a bit more lacking in balance. Now, going back to Silvex's question of whether Struan's bastard sword is worth 15 platinum dokoras vs. the (a) 100 platinum kronars you'll pay for a G/S or H/S bastard sword now or (b) the 20 platinum kronars you'll pay for a l/h/l f/f l/g/l r/f 28 stone bastard sword (if that's still possible), my answer is, "It is now."

Your argument here really has no bearing on mine. You are making up numbers (which may or may not become a reality) to support the claim. What I argued was that, "The bastard sword from Steel Claw Clan will not be worth that money if you can find someone selling a forged bastard sword for less money."

If you can find a similar or slightly-lower quality item for a much better price, then no, the marginal increase in quality will not be worth the increase in price.*

>Previously it wasn't, but it is now.

That is a good clarification that could have been posted in your first post.

>my point was that it's better than what anyone can forge at that weight

Is this truly the case? I'd like to see the comparison of a player made bastard sword at 47 stones after the changes versus the SCC bastard sword. I'd be happy to retract my statements if there is proof to the contrary.

---

Fuquois

* I suppose people are waiting for me to tack on an "in my opinion" here, because I'm sure some people would think it very worth it to pay extra money for even a slight increase in stats. However, it was beat into me at a young age that it is to be assumed when I am writing something that is it my opinion unless otherwise stated, and therefore redundant to say so.

Well, that's a little bit more in-depth than saying 'CAROLINT is entirely wrong'... still seems like you're just looking for an argument though. Look somewhere else, please.


________
"Just an observation, but you do not seem to know what you are talking about, and the things you say seem generally unintelligent."

<<My point wasn't that Struan's sword is better than all forged bastard swords; my point was that it's better than what anyone can forge at that weight, and it's a good weapon and is worth what it sells for.>>

Having seen the appraisals posted by Magdar over in the forging folder and compared them to known storebought appraisals *at the same weight*, I am certain that the world is exactly not going to end because forgers can't grind. And storebought stuff *at the same weight, none of this light as a feather crap*, does not even begin to compare.

"Whatever, it's the end of the world. There's actually a Trader guild now. Bards are no longer useless. Empaths can finally stand up for themselves. We're all doomed."
- Vinjince

Uh, where is that sword sold in a store?

I am --- Navak

>I am looking for a comparison of a new forged bastard sword (like the 45 stoner that you have in your post) compared to the one sold in the store at Steel Claw Clan.

Have any handy? I can keep the forged one handy if you can find a SCC one to compare to.

Dragoonseal

i am in prime and i just recently bought that bastard...

i mean bastard sword...

email me at sylvexdr@gmail.com if u wish to app it...

>I'm not sure which numbers you are referring to, but log into prime sometime and check the tables - you'll do a double-take but rest assured that, yes, that is a 200+ plat tag on a 36 stone bastard sword. 100 plat on a 28 stone bastard sword? You bet. 80 plat for a broadsword? Believe it. Previous to the changes most bastard swords were selling for around 20 plat so 15 platinum dokoras for Struan's is not ridiculous.


Just out of curiosity, is the 200 plat 36 stone bastie great slice in HE, severe in 2he?


Axillus - Halfling Warrior Mage
>You charge your steel-toed footwrap at a musk hog.

>I'm not sure which numbers you are referring to, but log into prime sometime and check the tables - you'll do a double-take but rest assured that, yes, that is a 200+ plat tag on a 36 stone bastard sword. 100 plat on a 28 stone bastard sword? You bet. 80 plat for a broadsword? Believe it. Previous to the changes most bastard swords were selling for around 20 plat so 15 platinum dokoras for Struan's is not ridiculous.

You've proven to me that the economics of Prime have followed the same old trends. The Traders will sell something for as high a price as they can find a buyer for -- and this is usually quite high (there is a sucker born every minute, after all). You are correct that the store-bought bastard sword is worth the 15 platinum dokoras, and I apologize for my outright dismissal of your assessment. I do, however, stand by my point that it is only worth it if you cannot find something of similar quality for a better price (which I expect will start happening quite soon when some enterprising young forger sees the gap in the market for slightly-better-than-storebought, cheap forged goods).

To shift gears, though, this is the reason I am unconvinced that forging has dipped below store-bought goods in general:
[MILGRYM*'*S]
>app broads careful
A broadsword is a heavy edged melee-ranged weapon.

You are certain that it could do:
low puncture damage
moderate slice damage
fair impact damage

You are certain that the broadsword is fairly balanced and is fairly suited to gaining extra attack power from your strength.

You are certain that the broadsword is moderately strong, and is in pristine condition.

The broadsword is made with metal.
The broadsword feels pretty light. (35 stones at MAMAS)
You are certain that the broadsword is worth exactly 287 kronars.
Roundtime: 16 seconds.
[MINE]
>app my broads careful
A broadsword is a heavy edged melee-ranged weapon.

You are certain that it could do:
poor puncture damage
moderate slice damage
low impact damage

You are certain that the broadsword is fairly balanced and is fairly suited to gaining extra attack power from your strength.

You are certain that the broadsword is moderately strong, and is in pristine condition.

The broadsword is made with metal.
You are confident that the broadsword might weigh a few tens of stones. (28 stones at MAMAS)
You are certain that the broadsword is worth exactly 460 lirums.
Roundtime: 16 seconds.
[COMPARISON]
R>comp other broads with broads
You are certain that [my] broadsword is about as strong as [Milgrym's] broadsword.
You are certain that [my] broadsword is a little more balanced than [Milgrym's] broadsword.
You are certain that [my] broadsword is about as suited to gaining extra attack power from your strength as [Milgrym's] broadsword.
You are certain that [my] broadsword does about as much puncture damage as [Milgrym's] broadsword.
You are certain that [my] broadsword does about as much slice damage as [Milgrym's] broadsword.
You are certain that [my] broadsword does about as much impact damage as [Milgrym's] broadsword.
You are confident that [my] broadsword weighs a little less than [Milgrym's] broadsword.
[Roundtime: 8 seconds]

Why is this extraordinary? Because I'm a War Mage. Sure I have 230-ish FF for HE, but that isn't anywhere near what I would need to get a capped pound. It's been explained to me that 'about as much' is even a range within itself, but if I am able to pound out a broadsword that is statistically 'about the same' as a standard Crossing broadsword, except for being seven stones lighter and a touch more balanced, then I am still waiting to see how the goods of these Barbarians with twice my FF are making worse than storebought quality.

---

Fuquois

<<I am still waiting to see how the goods of these Barbarians with twice my FF are making worse than storebought quality.

>I must have missed the post of who said that... Do you remember who?

I do, in fact.

>Most all forged weapons, at the same weight as store bought, come out with store level apps or less, unfortunately. Not every mold mind you, bigger ones like claymores probably do better, but claymores suck.
- Dragoonseal
(http://www.play.net/forums/messages.asp?forum=20&category=9&topic=18&message=1083)

---

Fuquois

BRFUQOUIS, your sword had about 5 more balance points, and 3-4 less slice, puncture, impact and power points. So the net result was a LOSS of 4-10 stat points from going down from 35 to 28 stones. Which makes sense. Ligther weapons gain balance, but give up every other stat (except construction) for the tradeoff.

Your sword isn't necessarily better than storebought, at least.. if the stores sold a 28 stone broadsword I think you'd find your sword pretty identical to it. You have proven that forged goods are not worse than storebought. That is definately true. However, I can't tell if there is currently any benefit to having higher FF than 220 for steel mixes. I also doubt that barbarians are getting much, if any bonus currently to forging. Mixes just cap too early on the pound. Kind of like pallies and armor forging. Aside from manipulating an item's weight, I also don't know if there is currently any bonus to using forged blades.

I'll just repeat this for the sake of others as we'd already spoke about it -

Each appraisal category is a range. Even "about as much" is a range. So it is entirely possible to have a sword app the identical, and compare identical, yet be down 24 stat points in quality (puncture, slice, impact, balance, suitedness, construction). That is a huge variance!

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