>> This has been found and fixed, and bows should be training at the same rate as other weapons now.

Welcome back. :) Now I can train crossbows again!

Anyone else see the words "experience tweaks", then immediately scan for the word Trading and get bitterly disappointed? Nevermind probably just me

Crossbow exp tweaks are cool though, I like!

Apu
_
Respect. Integrity. World Domination.
https://sites.google.com/site/apucorpdr/

>>Mastery training slowly

Yeah, this is actually very intentional. The entire idea behind the Mastery skill is that it's something that describes your mastery at using melee/missile weapons.

Training at the same rate as your primary weapon would indicate that your mastery at melee weapons increases just as fast as learning one weapon, which isn't particularly true.

In practice, what this means is that if you train a lot of weapons, you'll have continue getting Mastery training for all of those weapons. You won't get as much for training a weapon that's a lot lower than your Mastery, but then again, that kind of makes sense. Mastery isn't intended to be a skill that you should focus on mind locking - By definition, it's supposed to train in a distributed fashion as you use many different weapons, rather than something you can focus on by hammering on one skill for a long time.

--

"The ninety and nine are with dreams, content but the hope of the world made new, is the hundredth man who is grimly bent on making those dreams come true." -E.A.P.

>>Training at the same rate as your primary weapon would indicate that your mastery at melee weapons increases just as fast as learning one weapon, which isn't particularly true.

That makes a lot of sense. I always thought it was odd that I could train crossbow and missile mastery at equal learning rates. It was basically making it so training 1 missile weapon gave double exp.

Yeah Missile Mastery might end up getting an experience boost when all is said and done, since there are only 5 missile skills. Right now they're treated the same, but it's possible that they'll get different treatment.

That said, consider that you're training a skill that's 35% below your mastery skill - Hitting 8/34 isn't really that bad. Remember that the Mastery skill isn't something that penalizes you if it's below your weapon skill, so if you DO only train a couple melee weapons and our mastery ends up below them, you're not hurting. It just means that you're not that much of a master of melee weapons, which stands to reason :).

--

"The ninety and nine are with dreams, content but the hope of the world made new, is the hundredth man who is grimly bent on making those dreams come true." -E.A.P.

The issue I have with this is that Barbarian reqs require it be learned at the same pace as primary weapons. Seems pretty harsh.

>>The issue I have with this is that Barbarian reqs require it be learned at the same pace as primary weapons. Seems pretty harsh.

At the least it should train at half the speed as at-level weapons if we can't full speed. That would mean it will lock about the same time as our second weapon. Anything less I think is a bit rough.

---

~The Prydaen~

Yeah, that does seem kind of excessive. I can't imagine if something like tactics trained at 1/3rd with having it as a hard req as a bard, that doesn't seem fair to barbs.

Player of Ryken
---
"Life expectancy would grow by leaps and bounds if green vegetables smelled as good as bacon." ~ Doug Larson

AIM - RykenDR

I haven't fully tested it but here's a quick and dirty Combo script for Genie Rewyn

var mob (shaman|field goblin)
action (combos) var combo $1 when by landing (.*)\.$
action (combos) off


analyze:
gosub clear
if matchre("$monsterlist","%mob") then
eval this.mob $1
var combo null
action (combos) on
pause 0.5
put face %this.mob
pause 0.2
put analyze %this.mob
waitfor Roundtime
eval combo replace("%combo", "a ", "|")
eval combo replace("%combo", ", a ", "|")
eval combo replace("%combo", ", an ", "|")
eval combo replace("%combo", " and ", "|")
eval combocount count("%combo", "|")
action (combos) off
counter set 1

ComboStart:
if %c > %combocount then goto analyze
gosub maneuver %combo(%c)
counter add 1
goto ComboStart


maneuver:
match count There is nothing else to face!
match advance You aren't close enough to attack
match return you.]
match return position.]
match return opponent.]
match return advantage.]
match maneuver ...wait
match dead balanced]
match dead balance]
put $1
matchwait

dead:
put search %this.mob
pause 0.5
goto analyze

advance:
put advance %this.mob
waitfor melee
goto maneuver

return:
return

I just tested this and had to reorder and add a couple replace evaluations to get it working for me. This ordering seems to be working for the few minutes I tested.

eval combo replace("%combo", ", an ", "|")
eval combo replace("%combo", ", a ", "|")
eval combo replace("%combo", " and an", "|")
eval combo replace("%combo", " and a", "|")
eval combo replace("%combo", " and ", "|")
eval combo replace("%combo", "a ", "|")
eval combocount count("%combo", "|")

>That said, consider that you're training a skill that's 35% below your mastery skill

Actually, he was saying that his weapon skill is 150% of his mastery skill. 400 weaon, 265 mastery.

>I can't imagine if something like tactics trained at 1/3rd with having it as a hard req as a bard

Heh, I wish tactics trained at 1/3 the speed of my weapon skills. I can lock 6 weapons + TM in combat and have tactics be at 8-10/34. The one saving grace is that it drains at primary, so it actually moves more than my weapons during a 2+ hour hunting session. But that's only because I'm hunting for long periods of time. And this is with doing a tactics move 2 times (a bob and a weave) for every 4 damaging moves.

>>Heh, I wish tactics trained at 1/3 the speed of my weapon skills.

That's a good point, I don't pay close attention to it since it converted over at a level way above what I need to circle for some time -- I'm not sure it's a good thing to have primary skillset skills learning at reduced rates like this. Tert skillsets are there for that kind of learning lag over time already.

I'm not sure how to solve that though given the role mastery skills play.

Player of Ryken
---
"Life expectancy would grow by leaps and bounds if green vegetables smelled as good as bacon." ~ Doug Larson

AIM - RykenDR

>>If it moves, great, for primary training its just TDPs because its a bit behind my main weapon.<<

Not if you're a barb it isn't. My primary mastery has the same requirement as my two primary weapons. So for 200th, I'd need 1610 in my top two weapons and primary mastery. If my mastery starts lagging, it's going to be a pain to really catch up.

Your body tightens as you draw your arms together in a sinuous, flowing motion, mimicking the form you were trained to adopt for this roar of warning.
Kodius fled to the west in terror!
Roundtime: 2 sec.

>>I don't think it would be a problem if not for the barb situation like they are saying -- they have a hard circle req in a weapon skill designed to move slow relative to other weapon skills but without a reduction in the actual requirement. That just seems kind of "off" on a basic fairness level.

Having actually played around with it now, I don't anticipate it will be a problem for many/most Barbarians, as they usually train more weapons at-circle than the circle requirements dictate. If you have four weapon requirements, you may as well just train all four equally.

The only time I really anticipate this being a problem is it makes specific training scenarios difficult, e.g. if you train only to minimum requirements and diversify your weapons well between melee and ranged.

I'm noticing a definite change when overhunting, not sure about hunting at-level. Sling experience didn't seem to be much different when overhunting, conversely.

>>Having actually played around with it now, I don't anticipate it will be a problem for many/most Barbarians, as they usually train more weapons at-circle than the circle requirements dictate. If you have four weapon requirements, you may as well just train all four equally.<<

>> I'm already noticing it. I'm using Bow and LT, both are moving pretty well(16-18/34) and Missile Mastery barely got to 7/34. Sure, the pulse size is the same, but then you have to realize that Missile Mastery will drain clear before them and it will fall behind slowly.

Definitely need to clarify which masteries people are talking about. It sounds like it will take 4 melee weapons or 4 missile weapons to "lock" a mastery skill (if those same skills are locked.

4 melee weapons doesn't sound terrible for a barbarian. Assuming you want melee mastery at 34/34.

I said which one I was talking about. Masteries shouldn't take four weapons to lock it, not if it's going to be a hard req for barbs. Especially not missile. There's only 5 ranged weapons in the game. Needing four to lock it is absurd.

Your body tightens as you draw your arms together in a sinuous, flowing motion, mimicking the form you were trained to adopt for this roar of warning.
Kodius fled to the west in terror!
Roundtime: 2 sec.

>>Considering the nature of the ability and even or greater ranks, it should lock with 1 weapon or less.

I couldn't disagree more. It's your mastery with ALL melee weapons. Training it at the same rate of one weapon doesn't make any sense.

>>It's not supposed to be like Offhand where the experience gets split, they're both supposed to earn near equally.

You're confusing the two. Offhand trains equally, Mastery skills require multiple weapons (or a long time with one) to lock.

>>Barbarian learning

Good point. Just re-adjusted the experience curves to be a little more forgiving, and also to be MORE more forgiving for missile mastery. Two weapons should be enough to lock it right now. We still might need to tweak this to make it fit in line with the goals of the Mastery skills, but I wanted to make sure you could train in the meantime.

>>150% higher

Oh yeah, my bad. Fixes should reflect a better scenario in this case.

--

"The ninety and nine are with dreams, content but the hope of the world made new, is the hundredth man who is grimly bent on making those dreams come true." -E.A.P.

>>Good point. Just re-adjusted the experience curves to be a little more forgiving, and also to be MORE more forgiving for missile mastery. Two weapons should be enough to lock it right now. We still might need to tweak this to make it fit in line with the goals of the Mastery skills, but I wanted to make sure you could train in the meantime.

This was just about what I was seeing, though I wasn't checking the pulses too much. Two weapons to mind lock sounds fine.

>> I couldn't disagree more. It's your mastery with ALL melee weapons. Training it at the same rate of one weapon doesn't make any sense.

I realize the branding, however as I understand its intended purpose is to aid in backtraining of weapons. If I need to train half a dozen weapon types to properly move a skill whos intended purpose is to help me backtrain weapons, I think there is a logical disconnect in there somewhere. Its like making a bunch of money to enter into a program to help you to not be poor.