hello,
sorry for the newbie question, but a friend told me that parry and weapon skill will no longer be calculated together when parrying in the new system. Is this correct? Thank you for any replies.
VCVERDE
CUTHALION
Re: parry and equiped weapon
11/27/2012 09:44 PM CST
I couldn't say 100% that weapon skill will mean nothing, but (iirc) it will at least mean a lot less.
Parry skill of course will mean everything, and the balance stats of the weapon I believe will still be important.
Parry skill of course will mean everything, and the balance stats of the weapon I believe will still be important.
DR-KODIUS
Re: parry and equiped weapon
11/30/2012 09:03 PM CST
Weapon skill does factor in slightly with the parry calculation, even in 3.0.
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
DANFORDS2
Re: parry and equiped weapon
11/30/2012 09:32 PM CST
>Weapon skill does factor in slightly with the parry calculation, even in 3.0.
Did weapon suited and strength get added to the parry calculation in 3.0? I remember this being talked about, but haven't heard it for certain.
Elemental Lord Opieus, Master Warrior Mage of Elanthia
"For a bunch of radical empiricists, the Philosophers' system relies on a whole lot of faith." ~Armifer
Did weapon suited and strength get added to the parry calculation in 3.0? I remember this being talked about, but haven't heard it for certain.
Elemental Lord Opieus, Master Warrior Mage of Elanthia
"For a bunch of radical empiricists, the Philosophers' system relies on a whole lot of faith." ~Armifer
DR-KODIUS
Re: parry and equiped weapon
12/01/2012 09:49 AM CST
In a small way. Agility + Balance are still the primary factors to the bonus from stats.
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
RAIST
Re: parry and equiped weapon
12/01/2012 05:00 PM CST
>Agility + Balance are still the primary factors to the bonus from stats.
Would you mind explaining why? Agility + Balance are bonus to hit and bonus parry, while suitability + strength is bonus damage. That appears to continue the previous trend of underweighting strength and suitability.
One of the older posts indicated that they would play a larger part in parrying, which made me really happy.
Weapons for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Combat Balance List:
http://tinyurl.com/DRBalance
Would you mind explaining why? Agility + Balance are bonus to hit and bonus parry, while suitability + strength is bonus damage. That appears to continue the previous trend of underweighting strength and suitability.
One of the older posts indicated that they would play a larger part in parrying, which made me really happy.
Weapons for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Combat Balance List:
http://tinyurl.com/DRBalance
TEVESHSZAT
Re: parry and equiped weapon
12/01/2012 05:01 PM CST
REWYN
Re: parry and equiped weapon
12/01/2012 05:19 PM CST
What he said. I imagine when it comes to deflecting (i.e pushing away) a hostile weapon, your strength matters a lot. In all my time fighting with blunted edged weapons in the SCA I have never through the act of parrying one of grace, but my quickness (reflexes) and force (strength).
DR-KODIUS
Re: parry and equiped weapon
12/07/2012 02:08 PM CST
One aspect of this I am not comfortable with, is agility and balance effectively do nothing once you hit the to-hit cap. Strength + power never stop being useful.
Strength does affect carrying capacity and shield slightly, so it isn't without its merits.
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
Strength does affect carrying capacity and shield slightly, so it isn't without its merits.
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
DANFORDS2
Re: parry and equiped weapon
12/07/2012 02:15 PM CST
My biggest concern is for two handed weapons. They generally have poor balance, but good suitability. Shield already has severe penalties when used with two handed weapons, and parry is penalized by the poor balance on most of them. So what defense are you supposed to use?
Elemental Lord Opieus, Master Warrior Mage of Elanthia
"For a bunch of radical empiricists, the Philosophers' system relies on a whole lot of faith." ~Armifer
Elemental Lord Opieus, Master Warrior Mage of Elanthia
"For a bunch of radical empiricists, the Philosophers' system relies on a whole lot of faith." ~Armifer
REWYN
Re: parry and equiped weapon
12/07/2012 02:25 PM CST
Kodius,
I can understand attribute inflation (I feel agility was the god stat in 2.0 for instance). I wouldnt want to over value strength, I'm glad its going to have a bigger role.
Maybe, and this might be a bit aggressive, both agility and strength play into parry as a ratio (such that their combination is never great than 1:1 for instance) dependant on the weapon you are defending against.
Natural Weapons/Brawling, and to a degree Light Weapons and the such are harder to block with force, and are going to be the realm of agility, while mid range weapons are somewhat neutral, with heavy and heavier weapon defense being more reliant on strength.
To be clear its not based on what your holding but based on what your parrying. That means in general agility will be the ideal when it comes to hunting, but in CvC it becomes a bit more complex, and parrying a great sword as an agile dirk fighter is not going to be easy, nor will stopping fists and teeth with a great sword.
Just a thought.
I can understand attribute inflation (I feel agility was the god stat in 2.0 for instance). I wouldnt want to over value strength, I'm glad its going to have a bigger role.
Maybe, and this might be a bit aggressive, both agility and strength play into parry as a ratio (such that their combination is never great than 1:1 for instance) dependant on the weapon you are defending against.
Natural Weapons/Brawling, and to a degree Light Weapons and the such are harder to block with force, and are going to be the realm of agility, while mid range weapons are somewhat neutral, with heavy and heavier weapon defense being more reliant on strength.
To be clear its not based on what your holding but based on what your parrying. That means in general agility will be the ideal when it comes to hunting, but in CvC it becomes a bit more complex, and parrying a great sword as an agile dirk fighter is not going to be easy, nor will stopping fists and teeth with a great sword.
Just a thought.
REWYN
Re: parry and equiped weapon
12/07/2012 02:28 PM CST
>>My biggest concern is for two handed weapons. They generally have poor balance, but good suitability. Shield already has severe penalties when used with two handed weapons, and parry is penalized by the poor balance on most of them. So what defense are you supposed to use?
As I understand, shield does not get penalized by use of a two handed weapon, instead your two handed weapon skill is being penalized by your shield hindrance.
I might be wrong about that.
As I understand, shield does not get penalized by use of a two handed weapon, instead your two handed weapon skill is being penalized by your shield hindrance.
I might be wrong about that.
DANFORDS2
Re: parry and equiped weapon
12/07/2012 02:40 PM CST
>As I understand, shield does not get penalized by use of a two handed weapon
I thought it penalized both. Regardless, you get a pretty large penalty (25%, I think) for wearing it on your arm, which is required for two handers.
Elemental Lord Opieus, Master Warrior Mage of Elanthia
"For a bunch of radical empiricists, the Philosophers' system relies on a whole lot of faith." ~Armifer
I thought it penalized both. Regardless, you get a pretty large penalty (25%, I think) for wearing it on your arm, which is required for two handers.
Elemental Lord Opieus, Master Warrior Mage of Elanthia
"For a bunch of radical empiricists, the Philosophers' system relies on a whole lot of faith." ~Armifer
ISHARON
Re: parry and equiped weapon
12/07/2012 02:48 PM CST
>>Rewyn: As I understand, shield does not get penalized by use of a two handed weapon, instead your two handed weapon skill is being penalized by your shield hindrance.
"Using a twohanded weapon while using a shield will now cause hindrance to both your attack and your shield usage." --Dragonrealms 3.0 Changes: Combat (https://www.sebeni.us/public/dr3/Combat.htm)
Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall rank!
"Using a twohanded weapon while using a shield will now cause hindrance to both your attack and your shield usage." --Dragonrealms 3.0 Changes: Combat (https://www.sebeni.us/public/dr3/Combat.htm)
Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall rank!
TILTINGVAGABOND
Re: parry and equiped weapon
12/07/2012 04:28 PM CST
>>So what defense are you supposed to use?
Offense. There is a reason you are swinging a metal tree at people. ;-)
All kidding aside, this tank set up, sounds like you're going to need to rely heavily on your armor skill and frankly overwhelming your opponent with stronger than average hits.
Player of Diggan, Ranger & Halfing of Aesry
Offense. There is a reason you are swinging a metal tree at people. ;-)
All kidding aside, this tank set up, sounds like you're going to need to rely heavily on your armor skill and frankly overwhelming your opponent with stronger than average hits.
Player of Diggan, Ranger & Halfing of Aesry
REWYN
Re: parry and equiped weapon
12/08/2012 01:07 AM CST
My only issue with penalties is they do not have global caps, while buffs do. Over time, small penalties get out of whack. This is the reason in Prime at very high levels you see paladins CvC with chain on and not plate, even a few percent of evasion hindrance cause offset the formula enough with big enough numbers.
TEVESHSZAT
Re: parry and equiped weapon
12/08/2012 12:30 PM CST
>>One aspect of this I am not comfortable with, is agility and balance effectively do nothing once you hit the to-hit cap. Strength + power never stop being useful.
This will probably break a ton of game balancing stuff, but it would be nice if breaking the to-hit barrier resulted in a second/third/etc attack, depending on how well you break past that wall.
Let's say you cap out your to-hit at 100 "points". 150 "points" will get you a 2nd hit, 250 "points" will get you a third hit, 500 "points" will get you a fourth hit, etc.
When in doubt, http://elanthipedia.org/
This will probably break a ton of game balancing stuff, but it would be nice if breaking the to-hit barrier resulted in a second/third/etc attack, depending on how well you break past that wall.
Let's say you cap out your to-hit at 100 "points". 150 "points" will get you a 2nd hit, 250 "points" will get you a third hit, 500 "points" will get you a fourth hit, etc.
When in doubt, http://elanthipedia.org/
REWYN
Re: parry and equiped weapon
12/08/2012 12:46 PM CST
Hrm,
Agility effects ALOT of non combat stuff pretty significantly. Its not a weak stat, it just does not translate to increases in damage, but it does result in increased HITS when hunting at level, and over time that results in increased damage over time.
The only time I feel agil gets overshadowed is when you are under hunting and thus rarely missing. I think going from an agility dominant world it will take a bit to get used to strength and stamina actually being good stats (aside from training down RT).
Agility effects ALOT of non combat stuff pretty significantly. Its not a weak stat, it just does not translate to increases in damage, but it does result in increased HITS when hunting at level, and over time that results in increased damage over time.
The only time I feel agil gets overshadowed is when you are under hunting and thus rarely missing. I think going from an agility dominant world it will take a bit to get used to strength and stamina actually being good stats (aside from training down RT).
DR-KODIUS
Re: parry and equiped weapon
12/10/2012 12:10 PM CST
>>Shield already has severe penalties when used with two handed weapons
Shield does not have a severe 2-handed penalty. It has a small penalty to attack/defense, and whatever is lost when you wear it on your arm. At the end of the day if you want to lug around an unbalanced slab of steel, be prepared to miss more with it.
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
Shield does not have a severe 2-handed penalty. It has a small penalty to attack/defense, and whatever is lost when you wear it on your arm. At the end of the day if you want to lug around an unbalanced slab of steel, be prepared to miss more with it.
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
