<<If you haven't been keeping up with your main armor training, you may want to start paying a bit more attention to it. In the very near future you will find that your armor skill will be just as important as any other combat skill, and that neglecting it will have very real consequences.

Question for clarification: I currently train three armours in my standard set up. My highest is about 40 ranks above the second highest which is in turn about 20 ranks above the third. Is this disparity something I need to worry about fixing if I want to continue to use all three, or even just the two highest?

-Evran

* Prophet Hotoke Fuku-Nyorai snuck out of the shadow he was hiding in.

> My highest is about 40 ranks above the second highest which is in turn about 20 ranks above the third. Is this disparity something I need to worry about fixing if I want to continue to use all three, or even just the two highest?


That depends on a large number of variables, but assuming that your most hindering pieces are the ones you have the most skill in, you probably won't see a noticeable change based on multiple armors and the disparity between the pieces in a case like this where they are relatively close.

However, this does bring us to another related topic. Training two related armors (LC + HC, etc) will remain reasonably viable in the future. Trying to train 3 or more armors, especially across 3 or more armor types (cloth + LC + HP) is probably going to see an increase in difficulty at some point to discourage (but not prohibit) attempts to dress in totally senseless mismatched armors in order to maximize TDPs. However, this will be a future update (although not too far into the future), and not something that is likely to happen as soon as the warning to which you are responding.


- GM Dartenian

Though my soul may set in darkness it will rise in perfect light. I have loved the stars too fondly to be fearful of the night! - Sarah Williams

I'm excited about these changes too. Dart, any chance you could let us know how close we need to have our armor to our defenses? Is it a percentage deal or a flat rank kind of thing? Will this change include the overall hinderance changes, including stealth?

I am really looking forward to (hopefully) having less than "light" hinderance on my MM in LC.

HC/HP/LP + YS.. problematic? HC chest/arms, HP head/legs, LP hands... listed in order of highest skill.


_____________________
>>I'm constantly amazed by the things that people do in game that would get them punched in the face in RL, but then they try to claim that they didn't do anything that would warrent a PvP situation.<<
-Evran

>Trying to train 3 or more armors, especially across 3 or more armor types (cloth + LC + HP) is probably going to see an increase in difficulty at some point to discourage (but not prohibit) attempts to dress in totally senseless mismatched armors in order to maximize TDPs.

I really hope the crafting rewrite addresses some of the senseless armor decisions some of us are forced to make. I'd love to go with just an LC/HC setup, but here I am having to use leather just for an eye mask, and of course that's a couple hundred ranks behind my chains due to how experience is calculated by coverage.

Is the penalty going to be based against evasion or will it be based of what ever stance your using?

By this I mean if you were stanced to shield it would be based off shield vs armor and parry stance, parry vs armor.

Also, will there be numbers given as to what is the prime range that armor vs other factors are or will it be a play and find out experience?

>>I really hope the crafting rewrite addresses some of the senseless armor decisions some of us are forced to make. I'd love to go with just an LC/HC setup, but here I am having to use leather just for an eye mask, and of course that's a couple hundred ranks behind my chains due to how experience is calculated by coverage.

Huh? Almost all my characters use an HC/LC setup. LC shirt, HC everything else. I agree that it'd be nice to have a chain helm that you can Forge but the visored chain helm from riverhaven is HC that covers the eyes and works fairly well.

<<Given the level of utter crap most leather armor is.... Am I going to see a nerf in stealth ability for just using LC?


if armor ranks are going to mean more Leather might offer a lot better protection now.

<<Of course, if I had more reasonable options for leather armor, I might not even care about using LC...

I like talking armor. What is your biggest complaint with regard to leather?

Madigan

"le rage du paladine" Korsik

hindrance vs. protection w/ tanned leathers compared with forged armors.

Lack of viable piece armor options. It's completely idiotic to use leather greaves.

Stealth is needed as a defense because leather is such poor protection, but everyone wants to nerf that too.

As someone who has consistently kept armor, shield, parry, and multi up with evasion, I finally had to switch to using chain pieces because I was taking too much damage using leather-only.

I spent the time and effort to back train chain to be on par with leather because of how much crap leather is. I snipe less effectively because of wearing chain, but it has been 30 circles since the last "oops, stun, dead." incident.

I've had to let evasion get farther ahead of the other defenses than I like to compensate for the extra hindrance from mixing armors. And now someone is saying that if you don't keep them close having extra skill to help compensate for hindrance is going to penalize you?

-pete

Hopefully wearing plate or chain with leather accessories will not be somehow more hindering than wearing all plate or all chain. Hopefully wearing plate with chain accessories will not somehow be more hindering than wearing all plate.

<<hindrance vs. protection w/ tanned leathers compared with forged armors.

You realize that leather has the lowest stealth hinderance except for cloth and top end leather has the same protection as heavy plate and in most instances, better protection than heavy plate (and definately better than light plate)?

I think your issue is absorption. Heavy plate (top end) has much better absorption than leather armor.

Once the offensive numbers go down, then absorption (I believe) will mean less and protection will mean more. Of course, my opinion is that both protection and absorption should scale from top to bottom cloth on the low end HP on the high end, with some armors doing better in certain areas than others.


Madigan

"le rage du paladine" Korsik

>>I've got rotting flesh balaclava(neautral, training as HC)

And here's the problem, it's neutral. That's not acceptable to me. The HC helm from riverhaven is far superior to forged gear because it has eye protection. I've used it on my Cleric up to Super Celps and have 0 complaints about it. Would I prefer a forged helm? Yes, maybe when Forging 3.0 comes out.

>>And now someone is saying that if you don't keep them close having extra skill to help compensate for hindrance is going to penalize you?

From what I remember, "close" could be within a hundred ranks or so. Or at least that's how I thought Dart had previously put it. I hope that's the case too. I just hit 400 in all armors (cloth/bone being the two that just rolled over) and with 520 evasion I'm hoping my armors will catch up and pass my evasion anyway and I won't recieve any penalty. I assume the transition should be rather smooth for me either way, Paladins are gettin secret hax(s).


Vindicator Adakin of Prime
WorldsBestMagic Kastr of TF

"The Key To Immortality Is Living A Life Worth Remembering."

"Killing Time Murders Opportunities."

>> QFT. A balaclava is only a viable option for training 1 of the chain armors, not both. Wearing it just adds to your highest chain and widens the gap between the highest and lowest chain, making it difficult to keep them close to each other in ranks.

True, if you don't start out with HC being highest, its hard to take advantage of the balaclava. Right now its perfect, they both train about even. Personally, I don't like running around with "training armor." I just grab a theme I like and run with it. I draw the line at 2 armors. I don't like to train 3.

---

Gonif,

Are you suggesting that a spell be written specifically to allow necromancers to move into an area protected by holy magic for the purpose of constructing a vulture heart candy trail for Khurek to follow?

-Totenus

Armor tert will be randomly pinched and killed by their armor. This will replace the Zoha Crit in new combat.

::cackles::


- The Moose

<<Patently false but you and I have had this discussion before so I won't post my app comparisons again.

It seems the facts are clear on this one. I took the liberty of posting your comparison as it proves the point.

So that we properly set the table.

---

The statements:

My statement is that top end leathers protect as well as or better than top end forged plate.

Your statement: "Patently false".

---

The facts (from your compendium and your post below):

The absolute top end of both (firecat leathers vs. forged field plate) from your comparison:

firecat leathers = High, High, Good for puncture, slice and impact (protection attributes)
forged field plate = High, High, Mod for puncture, slice and impact (protection attributes)

---

The conclusion:

1. There is no dispute that the top end leathers protect as well or better than top end forged field plate.

2. I think what you want to say is that absorption is more important and that plate has better absorption. I agree plate has better absorption.

---

Anyway, my original post and yours.

https://www.play.net/forums/messages.asp?forum=20&category=30&topic=9&message=1131

https://www.play.net/forums/messages.asp?forum=20&category=30&topic=9&message=1133

Madigan

"le rage du paladine" Korsik

>>It would be awfully nice to have a Lunar YS

I am against this in principle for two reasons: 1) WMs already stole Shield of Light and Clerics are supposed to be the ones with stacked magical defense, dangit, and 2) I would have to hear more Warrior Mages crying that Moon Mages are more powerful on the message boards.

Neither are valid reasons, granted, but still.

---

"I hate you so much right now." -GM Armifer

Moon Mages are supposed to lose. It's in the code.

>>Tert armor up with my evasion

Which guild? For many magical guilds, there is zero effort, because both armor and survival are tertiary.

---

"I hate you so much right now." -GM Armifer