From #64:
<<a Therengian pole-axe...
An unwieldy implement of warfare in untrained hands, the exceedingly long ironwood haft is incised with wild boars running down its length to a heavy axe head opposed by a sharp back spike.
It is a pike type weapon>>
My question: Why is this a pike weapon?
The reason I ask: An "axe head" is not a pike. A "sharp back spike" is not a pike (by virtue of being opposed to another contrivance.) The two combined, assuming the spike is mounted to offset the axe blade and not simply attached to the blade at a right angle (in which case the appraisal should still indicate another function for the weapon), would not perform as a pike. Partisans, spetums, some spears and lances - many of these items are frequently confused with pikes. I don't see any way the above described item could perform as a pike. Even if the axe head were sharpened to a point, or the back spike mounted so it was positioned to extend from the pole it would not function the same way a pike does.
I'm still trying to figure out the logic behind some weapons (lances, etc) which are classified as either pike or halberd. I realize that without creating many new classes of combination weapons, for pole arms alone, we need to classify within one of the two options. However, there are some descriptions that don't seem to conform to the function of the weapon. Anyone who can identify the pattern by which the items are classified in would greatly help reduce this confusion.
Cheers,
Cyllwdd
WHITEC12
RAYJE
Re: Pike?
10/31/2002 05:23 PM CST
Why is a lance and ox-tongue spear halberds? If only there were simple answers. My theory is that there is a rogue GM That runs around changing weapons from pike to halberd and also changing the size of the Theren weapon harness just to be mean spirited
ELEFYN
Re: Pike?
10/31/2002 07:34 PM CST
>>My theory is that there is a rogue GM That runs around changing weapons from pike to halberd and also changing the size of the Theren weapon harness just to be mean spirited.
Interesting. My theory is similar, but I like to replace "...to be mean spirited" with "...to give people something to post in the Pikes folder aside from 'Uhhhh, jab/thrust works.' and '143 stones.' over and over."
Just a guess, though.
-Clear
Interesting. My theory is similar, but I like to replace "...to be mean spirited" with "...to give people something to post in the Pikes folder aside from 'Uhhhh, jab/thrust works.' and '143 stones.' over and over."
Just a guess, though.
-Clear
CYVIUSELORAXE
Re: Pike?
11/01/2002 09:09 PM CST
In DR, pikes are classified as long weapons you stab with. Halberds are classified as long weapons you slice and chop with. The mystery is solved!
So, spears are long weapons you can stab with. Thus, they are pikes. Ox-tongue spears are spears with large blades. Thus, they are halberds. It is, to say the least, an interesting way to classify these weapons.
Although, the lance that is a halberd is baffling and strange.
~Lairis
So, spears are long weapons you can stab with. Thus, they are pikes. Ox-tongue spears are spears with large blades. Thus, they are halberds. It is, to say the least, an interesting way to classify these weapons.
Although, the lance that is a halberd is baffling and strange.
~Lairis
FRITTSE
Re: Pike?
11/02/2002 09:05 AM CST
The ngalio from leth is a slice,and is pike.The khuj in SCC is severe slice,and is pike.I tihnk they just made up a bunch of whacky named heavy as hell weapons,and put em all in a hat and drew names alternating between halberd and pike.The only consistent pike I have seen is the javelin and spear.
Drachus
Drachus
RAYJE
Re: Pike?
11/03/2002 03:34 AM CST
<Although, the lance that is a halberd is baffling and strange.
~Lairis >
Yep. I believe it was first a halberd that taught pike, then a pike and now a halberd. Now you can understand why lances cannot be forged/finished ;)
~Lairis >
Yep. I believe it was first a halberd that taught pike, then a pike and now a halberd. Now you can understand why lances cannot be forged/finished ;)
LENNONJON
Re: Pike?
11/10/2002 01:42 AM CST
I tried to explain some of this confusion long ago.
There are many classification of pikes, of which halberds are sort of a specific class. Generally speaking pikes consist of a long shaft 10 to 30 feet long, with some sort of sharp point on the end. Hoever, any pointed object can also be classified as a pike.
Halberds are usually no more than 6 feet long, typically with an axe AND a pike at the end.
Lances are steel-tipped pikes.
Spears are by definition pikes because they are nothing more than a shaft with a sharp tip or blade at the end.
So in general all these things are pikes. The Therengia pole-axe should by subclassification be designated as a halberd, however to also call it a pike is not incorrect. Nor is calling spears or lances a pike incorrect.
Lances, however, are not halberds like the game suggests.
--Just a Squire
There are many classification of pikes, of which halberds are sort of a specific class. Generally speaking pikes consist of a long shaft 10 to 30 feet long, with some sort of sharp point on the end. Hoever, any pointed object can also be classified as a pike.
Halberds are usually no more than 6 feet long, typically with an axe AND a pike at the end.
Lances are steel-tipped pikes.
Spears are by definition pikes because they are nothing more than a shaft with a sharp tip or blade at the end.
So in general all these things are pikes. The Therengia pole-axe should by subclassification be designated as a halberd, however to also call it a pike is not incorrect. Nor is calling spears or lances a pike incorrect.
Lances, however, are not halberds like the game suggests.
--Just a Squire
RAYJE
Re: Pike?
11/12/2002 07:45 PM CST
<--Just a Squire>
Thanks Lennon but your assuming they are using actual logic. I think they just flip a coin ;)
Thanks Lennon but your assuming they are using actual logic. I think they just flip a coin ;)
COWERATRON55
Starter Pike?
04/09/2011 11:20 PM CDT
1. Are all pikes 2 handed?
2. Whats a good starter pike for a brand new character? Super low stats and all
2. Whats a good starter pike for a brand new character? Super low stats and all
MOOK1
Re: Starter Pike?
04/09/2011 11:30 PM CDT
1. I think there's a few, although they are more throwing spears and tend to suck at melee.
2. Fatigue is the biggest issue, so go with light ones for now. The short hunting spear from Arthe Dale is a good start.
-Evran
Gay, geeky, and a little bit cheeky.
2. Fatigue is the biggest issue, so go with light ones for now. The short hunting spear from Arthe Dale is a good start.
-Evran
Gay, geeky, and a little bit cheeky.
COWERATRON55
Re: Starter Pike?
04/09/2011 11:35 PM CDT
Thanks.
Any clue if that will fit into my starter backpack? Or do I have to track down a weapon strap?
Any clue if that will fit into my starter backpack? Or do I have to track down a weapon strap?
MOOK1
Re: Starter Pike?
04/09/2011 11:39 PM CDT
It won't I think. It might fit into a duffel bag if not. I think I keep my 3 in a longbow sheath.
-Evran
Gay, geeky, and a little bit cheeky.
-Evran
Gay, geeky, and a little bit cheeky.
GRANTJ47
Re: Starter Pike?
04/10/2011 12:15 AM CDT
The easiest container for pikes is the shoulder tube from Theren General Store. Hunting spear is nice, but once you can get one, the gold-tipped lance sold in Steelclaw clan is nicer. It is one-handed so you can hold shield in left hand instead of wearing it.
Abison
Abison
SAUVA
Re: Starter Pike?
04/10/2011 07:09 AM CDT
Arthe Dale "short hunting spears" do fit in a backpack. I've only ever used them for heavy thrown though, no idea if they work as well at melee.
~Hunter Hanryu
http://drplat.com/CombatEquipmentCompendium.xls
http://tinyurl.com/HanryuTanning
~Hunter Hanryu
http://drplat.com/CombatEquipmentCompendium.xls
http://tinyurl.com/HanryuTanning
EVRODR
Re: Starter Pike?
04/10/2011 12:59 PM CDT
they work at melee with low RT, but the spears from the last HE fest are much better. I really only use the short hunting spears for HT since I can carry 8 at a time in my baldric. A good starter weapon though for the low weight (20 stones)
MELLIONM6
New Pike Weapons
07/10/2011 10:09 AM CDT
The new, smithed pike weapons have REALLY given some love to the weapon class (thanks Kodius). These things are quite potent now. If someone wants to take up the weapon class, have them talk to a weaponsmith. Croegar woulld be happy to get someone started with a few hunthslegs, javelins, spears, or skefne(s?).
In the event the "One handed" question from before hasn't been adequately answered, javelins, hunthslegs, ngalios and lances (could be wrong on lances) are 1-handed. Everything else is 2.
--Croegar/Shatteringwave/Someone Else
K>think
You try, but in the cramped confines of the tunnel, there's just no room to do that.
In the event the "One handed" question from before hasn't been adequately answered, javelins, hunthslegs, ngalios and lances (could be wrong on lances) are 1-handed. Everything else is 2.
--Croegar/Shatteringwave/Someone Else
K>think
You try, but in the cramped confines of the tunnel, there's just no room to do that.
GORBESHGODDESS
Re: New Pike Weapons
07/23/2011 04:09 PM CDT
Care to share any of the stats of them? I'm looking for something comparable to "a steel-tipped pilum with a leather-wrapped deobar shaft".
My appraisal is only so-so, but here is what I get:
A steel-tipped pilum with a leather-wrapped deobar shaft is a heavy thrown and pike melee-ranged weapon.
You are certain that it could do:
somewhat heavy puncture damage
low slice damage
low impact damage
You are certain that the pilum is decently balanced and is fairly suited to gaining extra attack power from your strength.
You are certain that the steel-tipped pilum is appreciably susceptible to damage, and is in pristine condition.
The steel-tipped pilum feels light.
You are certain that the steel-tipped pilum is worth exactly 7481 lirums.
Roundtime: 16 seconds.
Unsure of the weight as I'm currently not close to MAMAS.
[==Vyraka==]
My appraisal is only so-so, but here is what I get:
A steel-tipped pilum with a leather-wrapped deobar shaft is a heavy thrown and pike melee-ranged weapon.
You are certain that it could do:
somewhat heavy puncture damage
low slice damage
low impact damage
You are certain that the pilum is decently balanced and is fairly suited to gaining extra attack power from your strength.
You are certain that the steel-tipped pilum is appreciably susceptible to damage, and is in pristine condition.
The steel-tipped pilum feels light.
You are certain that the steel-tipped pilum is worth exactly 7481 lirums.
Roundtime: 16 seconds.
Unsure of the weight as I'm currently not close to MAMAS.
[==Vyraka==]
APATHETICSMILE
Re: New Pike Weapons
07/23/2011 04:30 PM CDT
HC steel + lead, outstanding quality I think, only have basic pole tech so far.
R>app my fork
A steel military fork is a heavy thrown and pike melee-ranged weapon.
You are certain that it could do:
very great puncture damage
fair slice damage
fair impact damage
You are certain that the fork is reasonably balanced and is decently suited to gaining extra attack power from your strength.
You are certain that the military fork is appreciably susceptible to damage, and is in pristine condition.
The military fork is made with metal.
You are confident that the military fork weighs about 55 stones.
You are certain that the military fork is worth exactly 4312 dokoras.
Roundtime: 8 seconds.
R>app my fork
A steel military fork is a heavy thrown and pike melee-ranged weapon.
You are certain that it could do:
very great puncture damage
fair slice damage
fair impact damage
You are certain that the fork is reasonably balanced and is decently suited to gaining extra attack power from your strength.
You are certain that the military fork is appreciably susceptible to damage, and is in pristine condition.
The military fork is made with metal.
You are confident that the military fork weighs about 55 stones.
You are certain that the military fork is worth exactly 4312 dokoras.
Roundtime: 8 seconds.
RAIST
Re: New Pike Weapons
07/23/2011 04:31 PM CDT
>Care to share any of the stats of them? I'm looking for something comparable to "a steel-tipped pilum with a leather-wrapped deobar shaft".
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/User:Caraamon#PI
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Weapons for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
Combat Balance List:
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/balance2.xls
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/User:Caraamon#PI
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Weapons for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
Combat Balance List:
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/balance2.xls
MELLIONM6
Re: New Pike Weapons
07/24/2011 09:26 AM CDT
The new javelin templates can top that pilum you posted. Basically, new forged pike-class weapons make every old pike-class weapon a worthless and laughable relic.
--Croegar/Shatteringwave/Someone Else
K>think
You try, but in the cramped confines of the tunnel, there's just no room to do that.
--Croegar/Shatteringwave/Someone Else
K>think
You try, but in the cramped confines of the tunnel, there's just no room to do that.
SHADOW7988
Re: New Pike Weapons
07/24/2011 12:20 PM CDT
I'll hold onto your old forged Javelin, from the last system as a memento.
_____________________________________
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
_____________________________________
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
MELLIONM6
Re: New Pike Weapons
07/24/2011 03:59 PM CDT
Lol toss it, it's junk now.
--Croegar/Shatteringwave/Someone Else
K>think
You try, but in the cramped confines of the tunnel, there's just no room to do that.
--Croegar/Shatteringwave/Someone Else
K>think
You try, but in the cramped confines of the tunnel, there's just no room to do that.
TEVESHSZAT
Re: New Pike Weapons
07/24/2011 05:56 PM CDT
Keep in mind that there may be a way to convert older weapons into the new system, and we don't know what that entails.
NJWILLIAM
Re: New Pike Weapons
07/24/2011 07:19 PM CDT
Found this on Dagger Quest yesterday:
A scratched lumium lance is a pike pole-ranged weapon.
You are certain that it could do:
mighty puncture damage
somewhat fair slice damage
somewhat moderate impact damage
You are certain that the lance is decently balanced and is soundly suited to gaining extra attack power from your strength.
You are certain that the lance is highly protected against damage, and is in pristine condition.
The lance is made with metal.
You wonder if the lance might weigh several tens of stones.
You are certain that the lance is worth exactly 450000 lirums.
~ Bractos
A scratched lumium lance is a pike pole-ranged weapon.
You are certain that it could do:
mighty puncture damage
somewhat fair slice damage
somewhat moderate impact damage
You are certain that the lance is decently balanced and is soundly suited to gaining extra attack power from your strength.
You are certain that the lance is highly protected against damage, and is in pristine condition.
The lance is made with metal.
You wonder if the lance might weigh several tens of stones.
You are certain that the lance is worth exactly 450000 lirums.
~ Bractos
GORBESHGODDESS
Re: New Pike Weapons
07/25/2011 07:43 AM CDT
>>allarh / hunthsleg / javelin / light spear
Per the chart on the page that Caraamon gave me - I'm assuming there is no difference between these since they are lumped together. Just personal preference?
[==Vyraka==]
Per the chart on the page that Caraamon gave me - I'm assuming there is no difference between these since they are lumped together. Just personal preference?
[==Vyraka==]
APATHETICSMILE
Re: New Pike Weapons
07/25/2011 08:04 AM CDT
>>Per the chart on the page that Caraamon gave me - I'm assuming there is no difference between these since they are lumped together. Just personal preference?
Correct.
Here's how they look in HC steel with lead, tempered and balanced:
>ana spear
You deeply analyze the light spear and pour over its construction.
This appears to be a type of finished metal polearm weapon that is masterfully-crafted.
The spear is a simple piece to make.
It was made by someone with abilities close to your own skill.
About 7 volume of metal was used in this item's construction.
The metal appears to be composed of: 32.20% lead, and 67.79% high carbon steel.
Roundtime: 8 sec.
>app spear
A balanced light spear is a heavy thrown and pike melee-ranged weapon.
You are certain that it could do:
very heavy puncture damage
somewhat fair slice damage
fair impact damage
You are certain that the spear is soundly balanced and is fairly suited to gaining extra attack power from your strength.
You are certain that the light spear is appreciably susceptible to damage, and is in pristine condition.
The light spear is made with metal.
You are confident that the light spear might weigh a few tens of stones.
You are certain that the light spear is worth exactly 3000 dokoras.
Roundtime: 8 seconds.
Correct.
Here's how they look in HC steel with lead, tempered and balanced:
>ana spear
You deeply analyze the light spear and pour over its construction.
This appears to be a type of finished metal polearm weapon that is masterfully-crafted.
The spear is a simple piece to make.
It was made by someone with abilities close to your own skill.
About 7 volume of metal was used in this item's construction.
The metal appears to be composed of: 32.20% lead, and 67.79% high carbon steel.
Roundtime: 8 sec.
>app spear
A balanced light spear is a heavy thrown and pike melee-ranged weapon.
You are certain that it could do:
very heavy puncture damage
somewhat fair slice damage
fair impact damage
You are certain that the spear is soundly balanced and is fairly suited to gaining extra attack power from your strength.
You are certain that the light spear is appreciably susceptible to damage, and is in pristine condition.
The light spear is made with metal.
You are confident that the light spear might weigh a few tens of stones.
You are certain that the light spear is worth exactly 3000 dokoras.
Roundtime: 8 seconds.
DIMINISHEDANGEL
Re: New Pike Weapons
07/25/2011 08:38 AM CDT
Caraamon -
You and I need to talk friend. I need to order about a dozen of those spears from you, possibly two dozen. That's all for personal use too, not on Trader tables. Maybe I should learn how to update my combat scripts with counters so I don't keep losing my freaking spears?
Sent you a private message. I am Malkien in-game.
You and I need to talk friend. I need to order about a dozen of those spears from you, possibly two dozen. That's all for personal use too, not on Trader tables. Maybe I should learn how to update my combat scripts with counters so I don't keep losing my freaking spears?
Sent you a private message. I am Malkien in-game.
RAIST
Re: New Pike Weapons
07/25/2011 04:41 PM CDT
>Sent you a private message.
Not sure how you did that, but I didn't get it.
AIM me at CaraamonDR and I'd be happy to make you some weapons.
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Weapons for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
Combat Balance List:
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/balance2.xls
Not sure how you did that, but I didn't get it.
AIM me at CaraamonDR and I'd be happy to make you some weapons.
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Weapons for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
Combat Balance List:
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/balance2.xls
GORBESHGODDESS
Re: New Pike Weapons
07/25/2011 09:25 PM CDT
I'm loving my new spear and scythe - thanks Caraamon!
[==Vyraka==]
[==Vyraka==]
MELLIONM6
Re: New Pike Weapons
07/27/2011 08:07 PM CDT
The spears get to very great puncture. Definately a direction to consider. Even at light weights, they're quite potent.
--Croegar/Shatteringwave/Someone Else
K>think
You try, but in the cramped confines of the tunnel, there's just no room to do that.
--Croegar/Shatteringwave/Someone Else
K>think
You try, but in the cramped confines of the tunnel, there's just no room to do that.
RANTHIL1
Re: New Pike Weapons
10/24/2011 10:58 PM CDT
Pure glaes spear, forged by Heucuva
You are certain that the glaes spear weighs exactly 40 stones.
A glaes spear is a heavy thrown and pike melee-ranged weapon.
You are certain that it could do:
great puncture damage (11/25)
fair slice damage (5/25)
low impact damage (3/25)
You are certain that the spear is soundly balanced (8/13) and is fairly suited (5/13) to gaining extra attack power from your strength.
You are certain that the glaes spear is marginally vulnerable to damage (8/18), and is in pristine condition (98-100%).
DR Armorcrafting 3.0:
http://tinyurl.com/drarmor3
DR Blacksmithing Tools 3.0:
http://www.tinyurl.com/DRBSTools3
DR Crafting Calc:
http://tinyurl.com/DRCraftCalc
You are certain that the glaes spear weighs exactly 40 stones.
A glaes spear is a heavy thrown and pike melee-ranged weapon.
You are certain that it could do:
great puncture damage (11/25)
fair slice damage (5/25)
low impact damage (3/25)
You are certain that the spear is soundly balanced (8/13) and is fairly suited (5/13) to gaining extra attack power from your strength.
You are certain that the glaes spear is marginally vulnerable to damage (8/18), and is in pristine condition (98-100%).
DR Armorcrafting 3.0:
http://tinyurl.com/drarmor3
DR Blacksmithing Tools 3.0:
http://www.tinyurl.com/DRBSTools3
DR Crafting Calc:
http://tinyurl.com/DRCraftCalc
MELLIONM6
Re: New Pike Weapons
12/14/2011 05:58 PM CST
Needs more gold.
--Croegar/Shatteringwave/Someone Else
K>think
You try, but in the cramped confines of the tunnel, there's just no room to do that.
--Croegar/Shatteringwave/Someone Else
K>think
You try, but in the cramped confines of the tunnel, there's just no room to do that.
